Christians persuade me to believe that Jesus Christ is The Heavenly Father

poco

There's a book out called, "The Shack."  It comes pretty close to being able to wrap human conception around this idea of the Trinity.  other than that ..... there's an old story of St. Thomas wracking his mind trying to figure this out.  He's walking along a dirt road & is interrupted by seeing a small child taking a spoon of water from a lake on one side of the road to the low lying land on the other side.  St. Thomas asks him what he was doing, & the child replies, that he'll finish transferring the water b4 St. Thomas can figure out the Trinity.

So, if you're looking for an easy answer, forget it.  Persuading someone as yourself, that appears to have a bias against the belief of God, would only serve the purpose you probably want ..... to troll them re this. 

YeshuaBought

I and th Father are one. -John 10:30

Royalty

poco said:

There's a book out called, "The Shack."  It comes pretty close to being able to wrap human conception around this idea of the Trinity.  other than that ..... there's an old story of St. Thomas wracking his mind trying to figure this out.  He's walking along a dirt road & is interrupted by seeing a small child taking a spoon of water from a lake on one side of the road to the low lying land on the other side.  St. Thomas asks him what he was doing, & the child replies, that he'll finish transferring the water b4 St. Thomas can figure out the Trinity.

So, if you're looking for an easy answer, forget it.  Persuading someone as yourself, that appears to have a bias against the belief of God, would only serve the purpose you probably want ..... to troll them re this. 

How am I trolling? Is it merely because I believe what the Bible says and have some common sense to understand that 3 people cannot become one? 

Royalty

YeshuaBought said:

I and th Father are one. -John 10:30

1 John 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Man is made up of spirit, water and blood, just as Christ was. 

Hebrews 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

The word seed means sperm.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Where the brothers of Christ, meaning not only his actually brothers, but also John, Paul, Timothy, etc. were they all made the same way Christ was? Yes, they all came from the sperm of man and the eggs of a woman. The Disciples were not made angelic or with God's sperm. That's non sense. 

1 Corinthians 15:39-40

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Celestial bodies are angelic and terrestrial bodies are earthly. You cannot mix those two together. Christ had a terrestrial body or an earthly body. He was not an angel. If an angel had sex with Mary, she would have blown up. 

Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Do angels know what temptation and sadness, etc, are? No. They were not created like that. Christ was tempted, he suffered, he succored or comforted etc. Thus, Christ was not made of any angelic sperm lol.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

What does the law say about child birth? In order to understand the birth of Christ, you must understand the law of child birth. 

Acts 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

BOOM! That verse alone destroys the immaculate deception. Angels were not created by a man and woman. That is not how God created them. God was not created by a man or woman. God has always existed. He does not have a beginning and he does not have an end.

So in order to understand the birth of Christ, you must have wisdom, common sense, and understand the law of child birth. 

dbox

1. The Trinity is not belief in three gods. There is only one God, and we must never stray from this.
2. This one God exists as three Persons.
3. The three Persons are not each part of God, but are each fully God and equally God. Within God’s one undivided being there is an “unfolding” into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three Persons. The distinctions within the Godhead are not distinctions of his essence and neither are they something added onto his essence, but they are the unfolding of God’s one, undivided being into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three real Persons.
4. God is not one person who took three consecutive roles. That is the heresy of modalism. The Father did not become the Son and then the Holy Spirit. Instead, there have always been and always will be three distinct persons in the Godhead.
5. The Trinity is not a contradiction because God is not three in the same way that he is one. God is one in essence, three in Person.

Essence. What does essence mean? God’s essence is his being. To be even more precise, essence is what you are. At the risk of sounding too physical, essence can be understood as the “stuff” that you “consist of.” Of course we are speaking by analogy here, for we cannot understand this in a physical way about God. “God is spirit” (John 4:24). Further, we clearly should not think of God as “consisting of” anything other than divinity. The “substance” of God is God, not a bunch of “ingredients” that taken together yield deity.

Person. In regards to the Trinity, we use the term “Person” differently than we generally use it in everyday life. Therefore it is often difficult to have a concrete definition of Person as we use it in regards to the Trinity. What we do not mean by Person is an “independent individual” in the sense that both I and another human are separate, independent individuals who can exist apart from one another.

What we do mean by Person is something that regards himself as “I” and others as “You.” So the Father, for example, is a different Person from the Son because he regards the Son as a “You,” even though he regards himself as “I.” Thus, in regards to the Trinity, we can say that “Person” means a distinct subject which regards himself as an “I” and the other two as a “You.” These distinct subjects are not a division within the being of God, but “a form of personal existence other than a difference in being” (Grudem, 255)

In the baptism of Jesus, we see the Father speaking from heaven and the Spirit descending from heaven in the form of a dove as Jesus comes out of the water (Mark 1:10–11). John 1:1 affirms that Jesus is God and, at the same time, that he was “with God,” thereby indicating that Jesus is a distinct Person from God the Father (see also John 1:18). And in John 16:13–15, we see that although there is a close unity between the three persons, the Holy Spirit is also distinct from the Father and the Son.

• God the Father's role is to generate things. Things originate with him and flow from him. God the Father is equal with the Son and the Holy Spirit, but things start with him. The Father sent both the Son (John 3:16-17) and Holy Spirit (John 14:26) into the world.
• God the Son's role is to pay for our sins with his blood, which he did on the cross (Romans 5:9). The Son also acts as a lawyer for us before God, acting as a "mediator" between us and God (1 Timothy 2:5), and speaking "to the Father in our defense" (1 John 2:1).
• God the Holy Spirit has many roles. The Spirit helps us pray (Romans 8:26-27). He gives us new life (John 3:3-6). He is our Comforter, and he helps us understand God's word (John 14:26). He lifts up Christ (John 15:26). He convicts us of sin (John 16:7-11). He helps us to live holy lives (Romans 15:16). He gives us love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). He helps us share our faith (Acts 1:8). And he lives inside us (Romans 8:11).

Erfisflat

@Royalty said
"Celestial bodies are angelic and terrestrial bodies are earthly. You cannot mix those two together. Christ had a terrestrial body or an earthly body. He was not an angel. If an angel had sex with Mary, she would have blown up."

I do believe the "they would have blown up part" is purely made up. How would you explain Genesis 6: 1-4?

TTKDB

@Royalty: 

Why do some of the anti religious individuals like to apparently play the mind games of "persuade me, or from another website, "change my mind" when it comes to the conversation around Religion?

Are you another individual who likes to use religion to gain attention for yourself? 

Maybe "Wowsil" could give you some tips on that practice? 

Royalty

Erfisflat said:

@Royalty said
"Celestial bodies are angelic and terrestrial bodies are earthly. You cannot mix those two together. Christ had a terrestrial body or an earthly body. He was not an angel. If an angel had sex with Mary, she would have blown up."

I do believe the "they would have blown up part" is purely made up. How would you explain Genesis 6: 1-4?

I'm not sure what there is to explain. 

Genesis 6:1-4

1 And it came to passe, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were borne vnto them:

2 That the sonnes of God saw the daughters of men, that they were faire, and they took them wiues, of all which they chose.

3 And the LORD said, My Spirit shall not alwayes striue with man; for that hee also is flesh: yet his dayes shalbe an hundred and twenty yeeres.

4 There were Giants in the earth in those daies: and also after that, when the sonnes of God came in vnto the daughters of men, & they bare children to them; the same became mightie men, which were of old, men of renowme.

Like I said, I'm not sure what needs explanation. If you are talking about v3, well, read it carefully and slowly. 

Royalty

dbox said:

1. The Trinity is not belief in three gods. There is only one God, and we must never stray from this.
2. This one God exists as three Persons.
3. The three Persons are not each part of God, but are each fully God and equally God. Within God’s one undivided being there is an “unfolding” into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three Persons. The distinctions within the Godhead are not distinctions of his essence and neither are they something added onto his essence, but they are the unfolding of God’s one, undivided being into three interpersonal relationships such that there are three real Persons.
4. God is not one person who took three consecutive roles. That is the heresy of modalism. The Father did not become the Son and then the Holy Spirit. Instead, there have always been and always will be three distinct persons in the Godhead.
5. The Trinity is not a contradiction because God is not three in the same way that he is one. God is one in essence, three in Person.

Essence. What does essence mean? God’s essence is his being. To be even more precise, essence is what you are. At the risk of sounding too physical, essence can be understood as the “stuff” that you “consist of.” Of course we are speaking by analogy here, for we cannot understand this in a physical way about God. “God is spirit” (John 4:24). Further, we clearly should not think of God as “consisting of” anything other than divinity. The “substance” of God is God, not a bunch of “ingredients” that taken together yield deity.

Person. In regards to the Trinity, we use the term “Person” differently than we generally use it in everyday life. Therefore it is often difficult to have a concrete definition of Person as we use it in regards to the Trinity. What we do not mean by Person is an “independent individual” in the sense that both I and another human are separate, independent individuals who can exist apart from one another.

What we do mean by Person is something that regards himself as “I” and others as “You.” So the Father, for example, is a different Person from the Son because he regards the Son as a “You,” even though he regards himself as “I.” Thus, in regards to the Trinity, we can say that “Person” means a distinct subject which regards himself as an “I” and the other two as a “You.” These distinct subjects are not a division within the being of God, but “a form of personal existence other than a difference in being” (Grudem, 255)

In the baptism of Jesus, we see the Father speaking from heaven and the Spirit descending from heaven in the form of a dove as Jesus comes out of the water (Mark 1:10–11). John 1:1 affirms that Jesus is God and, at the same time, that he was “with God,” thereby indicating that Jesus is a distinct Person from God the Father (see also John 1:18). And in John 16:13–15, we see that although there is a close unity between the three persons, the Holy Spirit is also distinct from the Father and the Son.

• God the Father's role is to generate things. Things originate with him and flow from him. God the Father is equal with the Son and the Holy Spirit, but things start with him. The Father sent both the Son (John 3:16-17) and Holy Spirit (John 14:26) into the world.
• God the Son's role is to pay for our sins with his blood, which he did on the cross (Romans 5:9). The Son also acts as a lawyer for us before God, acting as a "mediator" between us and God (1 Timothy 2:5), and speaking "to the Father in our defense" (1 John 2:1).
• God the Holy Spirit has many roles. The Spirit helps us pray (Romans 8:26-27). He gives us new life (John 3:3-6). He is our Comforter, and he helps us understand God's word (John 14:26). He lifts up Christ (John 15:26). He convicts us of sin (John 16:7-11). He helps us to live holy lives (Romans 15:16). He gives us love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). He helps us share our faith (Acts 1:8). And he lives inside us (Romans 8:11).

How does that even make sense? There is one God that exists as three people????????? What?

I must point out a few things here that caught my attention.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Now according to John 1:14, we know the Word is Christ. 

In the beginning was Christ, and I'll explain this in a few. 

Christ was WITH God. Notice the word WITH, it's a separation word. Let's define the word with.

With: 

accompanied by (another person or thing).

The Word or Christ was God. The word God means powers. So now, I will deal with the "In the beginning was the Word..." part.

"In the beginning was the Word..."

Proverbs 8:22-31

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set vp from euerlasting, from the beginning, or euer the earth was.

24 When there were no depthes, I was brought forth: when there were no fountaines abounding with water.

25 Before the mountaines were setled: before the hilles, was I brought foorth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When hee prepared the heauens, I was there: when he set a compasse vpon the face of the depth.

28 When he established the cloudes aboue: when he strengthned the fountaines of the deepe.

29 When he gaue to the sea his decree, that the waters should not passe his commandement: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought vp with him: and I was daily his delight, reioycing alwayes before him:

31 Reioycing in the habitable part of his earth, and my delights were with the sonnes of men.

Now, this is talking about Christ. Paul, John James, Samuel, Ezekiel, et cetera., none of the prophets, aside from Christ, were set up before the earth was created. Christ was set up from the very beginning, before the earth and everything in it was created. Now, if Christ was CREATED before the earth was, did he create himself or did God create him? God created him. Which means, God the Father is the creator of Christ. Now, how does Christ become God? Again, if you define the word God, it means powers. 

Matthew 28:18 And Iesus came, and spake vnto them, saying, All power is giuen vnto me in heauen and in earth.

Do you see the word GIVEN in that verse? That means Christ is not God the Father because God the Father is the one that gave Christ power in heaven and in the earth. 

This alone, destroys your theory of one person being three in one. That's crazy. 

Royalty

TTKDB said:

@Royalty: 

Why do some of the anti religious individuals like to apparently play the mind games of "persuade me, or from another website, "change my mind" when it comes to the conversation around Religion?

Are you another individual who likes to use religion to gain attention for yourself? 

Maybe "Wowsil" could give you some tips on that practice? 

Because religion is garbage and filled of lies and contradictions. Religion is a heavy drug. 

Have you ever wondered why God commanded his people, the Israelites, to destroy religions?

Deuteronomy 12:3 And you shall ouerthrow their altars, and breake their pillars, and burne their groues with fire, and you shall hew downe the grauen images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.

So how can you defend religion when the God you supposedly serve, does not allow religion? You obviously do not know your God very well. Your there type of person that sits there and says, "There is only one God and one God only, but do not bash religion." That's what hypocrites do. They say that there is only one God, yet they allow other gods, when the God they supposedly worship, says to destroy religions and other gods. 

I do not like to use religion to gain attention. I like to expose religion for it's lies and hypocrisy. 

TTKDB

@Royalty:

Putting your anti religious rhetoric to a parenting test 

Will your ideology help to better the lives of the religious kids over how the religious parents are raising their kids? 

Let's see you play your anti religious mind games with those questions? 

In your view, are the religious parents lying to the religious kids? 

If you think they are then prove it? 

In your view, are the religious parents hypocrites?

If you think so prove it? 

Go interview some religious parents and ask them to defend your views of them? 

Go ahead, because you don't use religion to get your attention seeking needs met? 

Or hide behind this statement, as your reason for why you protest religion at your lazy leisure? 

"I do not like to use religion to gain attention. I like to expose religion for it's lies and hypocrisy."

Royalty

TTKDB said:

@Royalty:

Putting your anti religious rhetoric to a parenting test 

Will your ideology help to better the lives of the religious kids over how the religious parents are raising their kids? 

Let's see you play your anti religious mind games with those questions? 

In your view, are the religious parents lying to the religious kids? 

If you think they are then prove it? 

In your view, are the religious parents hypocrites?

If you think so prove it? 

Go interview some religious parents and ask them to defend your views of them? 

Go ahead, because you don't use religion to get your attention seeking needs met? 

Or hide behind this statement, as your reason for why you protest religion at your lazy leisure? 

"I do not like to use religion to gain attention. I like to expose religion for it's lies and hypocrisy."

My ideology is not to help little children or all humanity. My ideology is to expose the lies of religion and reveal the Word of God. God does not love everyone. If you want to throw John 3:16 at me, make sure you read John 3 in it's entirety because all humankind was not in the wilderness. Scripture clearly says God gave repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel (Acts 5:31), not all people. Scripture plainly states that ALL ISRAEL will be saved (Rom 11:26), not all people. If you want to say that a "spiritual Israel" exists in the Bible, prove it. 

If parents are teaching their children that God is solely a spirit, and that Christ is a white man with blue eyes and blonde long hair that loves everyone and accepts everyone, regardless of their sin, if parents are teaching their children that the laws are done away with and all we have to do is love God and our neighbor, or that heaven is going to be us floating around the sky and there is a place underneath the earth called hell with some red guy, with two horns on his head holding a pitch fork and is going to poke you and throw you in the lake of fire for eternity, or that God is one God but exits as three entities, or that ones nationality does not matter or that Christ was merely born of a woman and all this other non sense religion teaches, then yeah, religious parents are lying to their children, just as their pastors are lying to them only to get their money. 

I'll give you some proof. Parents love to throw John 3:16 at their child/children to "prove" God loves everyone. Let's see if that is true. 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So immediately, people assume that God loves everyone. Let's find out.

John 3;1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

So Christ was speaking to the Jews.

John 3:14
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Was everyone in the wilderness when Moses lifted up the serpent? NO. GOD directed a people out of Egypt into the wilderness, so we have to identify who these people were that he led out and why Moses lifted up the serpent, then you can comprehend why Christ must be lifted up.

Numbers 21:5-9

5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

6 And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

Uh-oh, seems verse 6 identified the people (Israel) that were in the wilderness. Because Israel was led out of Egypt and they spoke against TMH GOD and Moses, The Most High sent poisonous snakes upon the children of Israel to kill who ever spoke against HIM and Moses.

7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord, and against thee; pray unto the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.

8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

John 3:15-16

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

You're probably going to say, "See, look, it says whosoever." Remember John 3:14 and who was in the wilderness. All humankind was not in the wilderness. So the whosoever is talking about Israel - whosoever of Israel. God is not going to switch it up from talking about Israel in one verse then talk about something completely different.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So just as “Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness” for the children of Israel as a sacrifice for their sins so that they might have life, Christ also must be lifted up as a sacrifice so that Israel may have life since Israel broke the covenant they made with GOD. Since we (Israel) broke the covenant with our GOD, HE cut is off and scattered us among all the nations in the world. So to bring Israel back so that their iniquities may be forgiven, Israel needed a sacrifice, which was Christ, and He had to be lifted up so that Israel could be saved.

Psalms 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

Scripture says TMH God sent redemption unto HIS people and in Matthew 15:24 Christ says, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel”. So Christ was sent by The Most High God, into this world, to save Israel HIS people, so that we may have life and not die in our iniquities. The “whosoever” in John 3:16 is Israel, so whosoever of Israel believes on Christ, will live and not die – comparable to Numbers 21:8, the children of Israel erred and for Israel to be pardoned of their transgressions, TMH GOD spoke to Moses telling him to lift up the serpent and set it on a pole so that anyone who looked upon it that had got bit, shall live. In John 3:14, that’s why it says, “as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:” for Jesus only came to save His people Israel, to reunite us back with TMH God; Jesus Christ was an atonement for the transgressions of Israel that’s why He had to be lifted up so that Israel could be saved.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

So this is not talking about everyone. Peter was telling a certain group of people that they are a holy nation, a peculiar people. Now let’s find out who this holy and peculiar people are.

Exodus 19:3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

Exodus 19:5-6

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

I do not need to get anyone to defend my p.o.v's of them and religion. I don't care about how anyone feels. Our thoughts are not God's thoughts (Isa 55:8). So whatever you feel or think, is not according to God's word. God's word is true and if you do not like it, God does not care, neither do I. Allowing your feelings to intercept your way of thinking will always lead you into making bad choices and will always make you have emotional thoughts. So again, I don't care about how you, religion, parents and everyone else on this site feel. I'm not about feelings. I'm about evidence, truth, and wisdom. I do not rely on man to teach me the Bible because I can read it for myself and I can put the pieces together and expose the lies we continue being taught to this day. 

Do you have any other emotional questions you would like me to answer?

TTKDB

@Royalty:

"My ideology is not to help little children or all humanity. My ideology is to expose the lies of religion and reveal the Word of God. God does not love everyone."

Simple question, have you lied before?

Any lie, to whoever? 

Because if you've maybe lied before yourself, then how are you going to call out religion for in your view (lying) if you've lied to anyone before? 

"God does not love everyone."

And how do you know that?

Did you ask God who he loves or doesn't love? 

Or are you maybe trying to in a sense put words in God's mouth? 

Royalty

TTKDB said:

@Royalty:

"My ideology is not to help little children or all humanity. My ideology is to expose the lies of religion and reveal the Word of God. God does not love everyone."

Simple question, have you lied before?

Any lie, to whoever? 

Because if you've maybe lied before yourself, then how are you going to call out religion for in your view (lying) if you've lied to anyone before? 

"God does not love everyone."

And how do you know that?

Did you ask God who he loves or doesn't love? 

Or are you maybe trying to in a sense put words in God's mouth? 

Of course I've lied. In my past, before I knew I was an Israelite and I repented and continue doing so everyday until I can become perfect. 

Here's how I'm going to call out religion for lying. The lies I told were to make myself look cooler or that would make it seem as if I was the innocent one so I wouldn't get into any trouble with my parents. The lies religion tells are lies that have brainwashed billions of people. The lies of religion have deceived the world. So how can you compare the lies that I've told, to the lies religion has told and continues doing so today? What point are you trying to make? Tell me how lying in past times to my parents and friends, have deceived the world into believing that Christ is a man with pale skin, blonde hair and blue eyes? Tell me how my lies have deceived the world into believing that Caucasians calling themselves Jews, are the biblical Israelites? Shall I go on with this? 

Here's how I know God does not love everyone.(1) Did you even read the scriptures that I posted in my previous response? Read them very carefully and slowly. Then ask yourself, "If God was all loving, why would the Bible say repentance and forgiveness of sins is only for Israel? Why did not say all mankind?"

Isaiah 40:15-17

15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.

16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.

17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.

Do you know what it is like to be as a drop of a bucket? If a drop from a bucket full of water falls out, would you care? NO. God considers the other nations as a drop of a bucket, meaning he doesn't care about the other nations. They are nothing to him. Is that something an all loving God would say?

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

I thought God loved everyone? He hates the Edomites (so-called white folks today). So if he hates Esau, how could he love everyone? 

So since you think you're actually making a point in all these questions you keep asking me, how about you show me some biblical proof of an all loving God? Or a white jesus? The laws being done away with? Anything?

TTKDB

@Royalty:

I'm not a Bible dissector like you are.

Secondly, you've told lies, but because they aren't Religion based lies, it was ok for you to lie right? 

That's what some might call you trying to have your way with both sides of your anti religious conversation.

"The lies religion tells are lies that have brainwashed billions of people. The lies of religion have deceived the world."

Here's an idea, you could go interview the people who you view as brainwashed and let them speak for themselves here on this website instead of you maybe speaking for them? 

Or are you in a sense, trying to speak for them to help make your anti religious point of view with? 

Your view on who God loves and doesn't, I'm not going to get into that notion with you.

You have your view, and you are happy to run with it, it would seem? 

TTKDB

@Royalty:

http://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/what-did-jesus-look-like

Royalty

TTKDB said:

@Royalty:

I'm not a Bible dissector like you are.

Secondly, you've told lies, but because they aren't Religion based lies, it was ok for you to lie right? 

That's what some might call you trying to have your way with both sides of your anti religious conversation.

"The lies religion tells are lies that have brainwashed billions of people. The lies of religion have deceived the world."

Here's an idea, you could go interview the people who you view as brainwashed and let them speak for themselves here on this website instead of you maybe speaking for them? 

Or are you in a sense, trying to speak for them to help make your anti religious point of view with? 

Your view on who God loves and doesn't, I'm not going to get into that notion with you.

You have your view, and you are happy to run with it, it would seem? 

It's not ok to lie at all, just like it was not okay for you to lie. When I was a child, I did not know that lying was wrong, until I was chastised for it. Once I was chastised and corrected, I stopped lying because I did not want to to get any more a$$ whoopins.

Again, people on this site can speak for themselves all they want. Their feelings and thoughts are not God's thoughts. I was raised and baptized a Catholic, then when I was capable of making my own choices, I turned Christian. Then as time went on, I was introduced to the actual Bible and what it actually says. Because I was being taught by the people of the Bible, the biblical Israelites, I know who I am and I know what God's word actually says and what I must do to rule with my people when Christ returns. So again, people on this site can speak for themselves all they want. I'm not speaking for anyone. I just do not care about what religious people have to say about what they think or feel about God. 

I have my view that is based on the actual bible and not merely John 3:16, which Christians do not understand, yet assume what they want. So I'm not going to run with religion. I'm going to run with the Bible and what God says. 

So, at any point in this convo, are you going to at least try and prove any of your points with scriptures?

Royalty

TTKDB said:

@Royalty:

http://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/what-did-jesus-look-like

So you agree that Christ is a so-called black man according to scripture? Not a white man with pale pinkish skin and blonde hair with blue eyes?

dbox

Royalty said:

How does that even make sense? There is one God that exists as three people????????? What?

I must point out a few things here that caught my attention.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Now according to John 1:14, we know the Word is Christ. 

In the beginning was Christ, and I'll explain this in a few. 

Christ was WITH God. Notice the word WITH, it's a separation word. Let's define the word with.

With: 

accompanied by (another person or thing).

The Word or Christ was God. The word God means powers. So now, I will deal with the "In the beginning was the Word..." part.

"In the beginning was the Word..."

Proverbs 8:22-31

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set vp from euerlasting, from the beginning, or euer the earth was.

24 When there were no depthes, I was brought forth: when there were no fountaines abounding with water.

25 Before the mountaines were setled: before the hilles, was I brought foorth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When hee prepared the heauens, I was there: when he set a compasse vpon the face of the depth.

28 When he established the cloudes aboue: when he strengthned the fountaines of the deepe.

29 When he gaue to the sea his decree, that the waters should not passe his commandement: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought vp with him: and I was daily his delight, reioycing alwayes before him:

31 Reioycing in the habitable part of his earth, and my delights were with the sonnes of men.

Now, this is talking about Christ. Paul, John James, Samuel, Ezekiel, et cetera., none of the prophets, aside from Christ, were set up before the earth was created. Christ was set up from the very beginning, before the earth and everything in it was created. Now, if Christ was CREATED before the earth was, did he create himself or did God create him? God created him. Which means, God the Father is the creator of Christ. Now, how does Christ become God? Again, if you define the word God, it means powers. 

Matthew 28:18 And Iesus came, and spake vnto them, saying, All power is giuen vnto me in heauen and in earth.

Do you see the word GIVEN in that verse? That means Christ is not God the Father because God the Father is the one that gave Christ power in heaven and in the earth. 

This alone, destroys your theory of one person being three in one. That's crazy. 

• How do you understand the portion, "and the Word was God"?
• What about the next verse, "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."?
• Christ is indeed distinct from the Father and is not the Father. As I stated God is One Being or Essence, three Persons (not "one person being three in one"). 
• The proverb you quoted says wisdom was possessed by God or established (set up) by God, why do you say "created"?
• Who did John say Isaiah saw in John 12:41?

dbox

@Royalty

Did you ever get a chance to review my questions?

YeshuaBought

Jesus and the Father are one, (John 10:30), and here is more detailed proof: 

K_Michael

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (or a Mormon, if you prefer), I believe that there is no Trinity. The Father and Son are separate beings who are of one MIND, not the same person. 

YeshuaBought

@K_Michael Let's debate!

dbox

@K_Michael ive posted a traditional debate under religion of the topic.interested?

K_Michael

@dbox
sure thing!

K_Michael

@YeshuaBought
Sounds Great! When and where?

dbox

@K_Michael

I posted a few actually lol. Just jump in on one. It says, "Is the Trinity Biblical". Look Forward to seeing you there.

P.S. If you could, do one with a 48 hour round timer. 

YeshuaBought

@dbox Yes please.

ethang5

If one knows Christian doctrine, one knows that everything has a reason that affects other things.

There is a logical reason God must be one but in 3 persons. Deny that and you contradict the doctrine elsewhere.

Jesus is God, but not the Father. We believe that because that is what the bible reveals about God.

Jesus was called God to His face, He was called God, using the actual word "God" by both the old testament and the new. He is called God by the apostles, using the actual word "God".

Finally, Jesus assumed power and authority reserved only for God, were His. And then demonstrated that He possessed that power and authority at that moment.

The only way to argue otherwise, as Royalty does, is to deny and ignore the bible, as he does with the first verses of the book of  John.

Whether we can fully understand it or not, that is the revealed nature of God. We can disagree, but cannot deny that the bible says so.