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3D printed guns?
in United States

By WordsMatterWordsMatter 160 Pts
I would link an article on this but it's really hard to find one free of bias. The courts ruled that posting schematics to 3D print guns online is protected by free speech. At the current moment very few people have access to 3D printers but this could become a common household item in the future. Other potential for this is organizations like cartels, that have a lot of money could begin printing their own guns. How do you feel about the idea of people printing "ghost" guns (no serial numbers, untraceable, no background check)?  Do you think this would have any substantial effect whatsoever ok the black market for guns?

I haven't decided how I feel about this yet. My views on the overall gun debate are as follows. I don't really care about the legal status of guns. If you want gun control it's absolutely pointless to do anything short of banning all guns as handguns account for over 80% of all gun deaths, so anything else would have little to no effect. If guns are legal I think we should expand what weapons you can have. If guns are legal, as long as you accept that gun deaths will happen, the same as how we accept car crash deaths, then I think it's fair. I'd like to reiterate I don't actually really care about gun laws one way or the other, but I think the topic of 3D printed guns can make for interesting conversation.
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  • George_HorseGeorge_Horse 291 Pts
    edited August 2
    I found this to be particularly interesting as well. Now I can 3D print a colt 1911!

    WordsMatterNathaniel_B
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." ~Gene Roddenberry

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill
  • search youtube for making a lower receiver, especially for an ak47, it's just bent medal and needs a few tools, then look up 80% complete receiver, if you don't know what a receiver is or it's significance, look that up too.  As far as the 3d printer goes, this might increase the purchases for them, perhaps some shops where you can rent time using one.  A few states have banned the files, like somehow that's even possible lol  This company doesn't need permission to release them, the could just get leaked since that's a common practice with a great many things now.  Others I'm sure are working on different/better designs who may not even ask for permission but just release the files, there's no stopping it really.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 541 Pts
    I think such matters should be considered from long-term perspective, and not just the nearest future perspective. Whether the gun laws are strict or not, whether the 3d-printing industry is heavily regulated or not - eventually technology will achieve the level where, due to the evolution of communication technology and robotics, everyone will be able to quickly create a thermonuclear bomb in their kitchen with a few mouse clicks. Short of establishing an Orwellian totalitarian government, where every aspect of people's lives is heavily controlled (and this would defeat the purpose in any case, since we are replacing one problem with another), it is impossible to control these things by law.

    What we need is the societal change, that makes the idea of buying/creating/using weapons strongly unappealing to people. This is the case in Japan, for example, where the cultivation of "peace and prosperity" that arose from the defeat in the World War and the guilt people felt over their country's role in that war - lead to a very strong societal pacifism. Aside from major cities with some organized crime and small sub-cultures propagating the dismissal of the mainstream societal value, Japan has almost zero crime and violence, and the incidents that do happen almost exclusive result from unaddressed mental illnesses. Granted, they do have pretty strict laws, but nothing that, in theory, prevents one from buying a pistol on the black market and going on a killing spree - yet it never happens.

    This is the long-term solution to the problem. When every child can quickly print a few grenades to play with, we will need something more than law enforcement - we will need culture, morals and responsibility.
    ApplesauceWordsMatter
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 696 Pts
    search youtube for making a lower receiver, especially for an ak47, it's just bent medal and needs a few tools, then look up 80% complete receiver, if you don't know what a receiver is or it's significance, look that up too.  As far as the 3d printer goes, this might increase the purchases for them, perhaps some shops where you can rent time using one.  A few states have banned the files, like somehow that's even possible lol  This company doesn't need permission to release them, the could just get leaked since that's a common practice with a great many things now.  Others I'm sure are working on different/better designs who may not even ask for permission but just release the files, there's no stopping it really.
    For $250 + $100 shipping, you can get a Ghost Gunner, essentially a 3-D printer designed especially for finishing 80% 1911A1, AR-10, and AR-15 frames.
    ApplesauceGeorge_Horse
  • MayCaesar said:
    I think such matters should be considered from long-term perspective, and not just the nearest future perspective. Whether the gun laws are strict or not, whether the 3d-printing industry is heavily regulated or not - eventually technology will achieve the level where, due to the evolution of communication technology and robotics, everyone will be able to quickly create a thermonuclear bomb in their kitchen with a few mouse clicks. Short of establishing an Orwellian totalitarian government, where every aspect of people's lives is heavily controlled (and this would defeat the purpose in any case, since we are replacing one problem with another), it is impossible to control these things by law.

    What we need is the societal change, that makes the idea of buying/creating/using weapons strongly unappealing to people. This is the case in Japan, for example, where the cultivation of "peace and prosperity" that arose from the defeat in the World War and the guilt people felt over their country's role in that war - lead to a very strong societal pacifism. Aside from major cities with some organized crime and small sub-cultures propagating the dismissal of the mainstream societal value, Japan has almost zero crime and violence, and the incidents that do happen almost exclusive result from unaddressed mental illnesses. Granted, they do have pretty strict laws, but nothing that, in theory, prevents one from buying a pistol on the black market and going on a killing spree - yet it never happens.

    This is the long-term solution to the problem. When every child can quickly print a few grenades to play with, we will need something more than law enforcement - we will need culture, morals and responsibility.
    When you look at Japan, they don't have a drug problem like the U.S., which in turn probably means they don't have the gang problem like the U.S. and all the violence etc that comes with it.
    There's a video from a while back of a guy who 3d printed an all metal handgun.  Now mind you this printer was for industrial use, multi-million dollar specialized setup, but he did it to prove he could.  He said it wouldn't be cost effective to make.....yet.  As better and strong materials are developed they will become more readily available.  3d printers are constantly dropping in price and are getting better.  The genie is out, time to deal with the real issue, people.
    have you seen the hand made guns from Philippines?  check those videos out.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 696 Pts
    MayCaesar said:
    I think such matters should be considered from long-term perspective, and not just the nearest future perspective. Whether the gun laws are strict or not, whether the 3d-printing industry is heavily regulated or not - eventually technology will achieve the level where, due to the evolution of communication technology and robotics, everyone will be able to quickly create a thermonuclear bomb in their kitchen with a few mouse clicks. Short of establishing an Orwellian totalitarian government, where every aspect of people's lives is heavily controlled (and this would defeat the purpose in any case, since we are replacing one problem with another), it is impossible to control these things by law.

    What we need is the societal change, that makes the idea of buying/creating/using weapons strongly unappealing to people. This is the case in Japan, for example, where the cultivation of "peace and prosperity" that arose from the defeat in the World War and the guilt people felt over their country's role in that war - lead to a very strong societal pacifism. Aside from major cities with some organized crime and small sub-cultures propagating the dismissal of the mainstream societal value, Japan has almost zero crime and violence, and the incidents that do happen almost exclusive result from unaddressed mental illnesses. Granted, they do have pretty strict laws, but nothing that, in theory, prevents one from buying a pistol on the black market and going on a killing spree - yet it never happens.

    This is the long-term solution to the problem. When every child can quickly print a few grenades to play with, we will need something more than law enforcement - we will need culture, morals and responsibility.

    Japan also has a very homogeneous society.  Its almost as difficult to emigrate to Japan as it is to buy a gun there.  It's a lot easier to get everyone to work for the same goals if they have a common background.  So now you support the border wall and controlling immigration?!?  My, how quickly your beliefs change.
    Applesauce
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 541 Pts
    @Applesauce But them not having a drug problem is also a result of their culture of pacifism. It was quite different during the imperial times, but they did a total reassessment of their values after 1945 and solved that problem.

    They do have organized crime in major cities such as Tokyo or Osaka. But even that crime has a very specific Japanese vibe to it. The arguably largest criminal group in Japan, Yakuza, rarely even commits outright crimes; mostly it does charity and maintains legal businesses in order to gain influence.

    I think they can easily survive the legality of 3d-printed guns, and later tanks and nuclear bombs. Can Americans, British or most other Western societies? Probably, but some reassessment of values is still needed for this development to not noticeably impact people's safety. And something like Russia or India - well...
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 696 Pts
    I'm not sure what difference 3-D printer guns would make to the US.  If people can print a gun with a 3-D printer, just about anyone who wants a gun can have one, which is pretty much the situation in the US now, where we have as many privately owned guns as we do people.
    WordsMatter
  • CYDdharta said:
    I'm not sure what difference 3-D printer guns would make to the US.  If people can print a gun with a 3-D printer, just about anyone who wants a gun can have one, which is pretty much the situation in the US now, where we have as many privately owned guns as we do people.
    individual ownership of guns is going down, so fewer people own more individual guns than before.  Since you can only effectively use one at a time it doesn't matter if one person owns many, like a collector.  There's no way to know how many people have illegal guns.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 696 Pts
    individual ownership of guns is going down, so fewer people own more individual guns than before.  Since you can only effectively use one at a time it doesn't matter if one person owns many, like a collector.  There's no way to know how many people have illegal guns.
    We can't say with any certainty whether gun ownership is up, down or has remained steady.





  • CYDdharta said:
    individual ownership of guns is going down, so fewer people own more individual guns than before.  Since you can only effectively use one at a time it doesn't matter if one person owns many, like a collector.  There's no way to know how many people have illegal guns.
    We can't say with any certainty whether gun ownership is up, down or has remained steady.





    oh I know that, they just love to toss stats around w/o really thinking it through, and yet they rarely interpret them correctly.  You can't possibly say an event wouldn't have happened if x was removed because it could have just as easily been replaced with y, end result is the same.  If they focus was on punishing violent criminals, especially repeats, and keeping guns out of their hands, that would support, though I think it's an exercise in futility, but any ground that could be gained would be good.
    George_Horse
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • Nathaniel_BNathaniel_B 123 Pts
    edited August 9
    I found this to be particularly interesting as well. Now I can 3D print a colt 1911!

    Or a glock 19!
    “Communism is evil. Its driving forces are the deadly sins of envy and hatred.” ~Peter Drucker 

    "It's not a gun control problem, it's a cultural control problem."
    Bob Barr
  • The ability to make firearms via 3D printing is way overrated and is only an issue due to the hysteria of the Left in their efforts to abolish firearms period.  It was the 9th Circuit Court that decided it would an infringement on the companies/individuals 2nd amendment rights.  The 9th Circuit, the most liberal panel of justices in the land and they said it would be an infringement.  The reality is that it is highly illegal to make a firearm with no metal in it at all. Also, the composite material used in 3D printing that only cost $10 of thousands are not able to withstand the strain of multiple rounds being fired.  The tolerances are not even close to what machined steel can produce, so accuracy is majorly impacted.  In essence, people would be spending thousands of dollars to make junk firearms.  The hysteria of the sharing of printer code to produce such items is unfounded and simply does not pass any sort of common sense test.   
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