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Socialism VS Capitalism?
in Politics

By joecavalryjoecavalry 377 Pts
Do you believe that Socialism is better than Captialism?


  1. ?

    13 votes
    1. Yes
      38.46%
    2. No
      61.54%
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Arguments

  • Capitalists only care about people that can afford to pay.
    Polaris95Nathaniel_B
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 271 Pts
    I would say that socialism is better for the ruling elite, while capitalism is better for everyone else. It, of course, depends on how you define "better" - but if "better" means possession of a larger amount of resources, then my point stands.
    refugee
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 582 Pts
    Socialism is great, until you run out of other people's money.
    with_all_humilityGeorge_HorseNathaniel_B
  • refugeerefugee 71 Pts
    Socialist do not understand much of anything but Bernie Sanders does he has a great plan for Socialism.

    Sen. Bernie Sanders' "Medicare for all" plan would increase government health care spending by $32.6 trillion over 10 years, according to a study by a university-based libertarian policy center. That's trillion with a "T."

    The latest plan from the Vermont independent would require historic tax increases as government replaces what employers and consumers now pay for health care, according to the analysis being released Monday by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University in Virginia. It would deliver significant savings on administration and drug costs, but increased demand for care would drive up spending,

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 582 Pts
    "It is amazing how many people still fall for the argument that, if life is unfair, the answer is to turn more money and power over to politicians. Since life has always been unfair, for thousands of years and in countries around the world, where does that lead us?" - Thomas Sowell
    refugee
  • refugeerefugee 71 Pts
    @CYDdharta

    Politicians are cretins and a scrounge upon the people. If someone could really tell me what they know that would pertain to something of substance but it ain't there.  
  • No need for forced redistribution of wealth; socialism leads to communism.  Just need to roll up your sleeve and work, I'm yet to find an employer who fires someone for working too hard. 
    refugee
  • refugeerefugee 71 Pts
    edited July 30
    @MayCaesar

    Definition of a larger amount of resources might help your point stand in a weak position   
  • refugeerefugee 71 Pts
    @with_all_humility
    No need for trying to convince me socialism is communism that is a mute point. 
  • @MayCaesar No, capitalism is better for the ruling elite so they can continue to hoard the wealth. 
    refugeePolaris95Nathaniel_B
  • refugeerefugee 71 Pts
    @KJVPrewrather

    Socialism must be a better option for you.
    Nathaniel_B
  • @with_all_humility You are not a Christian if you pit money before people, and think people like me should die without healthcare. You need to be a good Christian and not serve mammon.
    refugee
  • @refugee And for other people who will die without healthcare that can't afford to pay. I have the right to live.
    refugeeNathaniel_B
  • refugeerefugee 71 Pts
    @KJVPrewrather

    Fallacy without question. Lacking knowledge has it's advantages does it not.
    NKJVPrewratherNathaniel_B
  • refugeerefugee 71 Pts
    @KJVPrewrather

    Admission of failure on your part is a fallacy. With your supposed conditions government programs are in place. 
    Nathaniel_B
  • refugeerefugee 71 Pts
    @KJVPrewrather

    Did i remember this you need your check. The check you need comes from whom.
    Nathaniel_B
  • refugeerefugee 71 Pts
    edited July 30
    @KJVPrewrather

    Playing victim is a crutch and not helping yourself with the self described disabilities you have shows you want no help.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 582 Pts
    @MayCaesar No, capitalism is better for the ruling elite so they can continue to hoard the wealth. 
    You are incorrect.  Socialism is far far better for the ruling elites who hoard the wealth.
    Nathaniel_B
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 271 Pts
    @KJVPrewrather

    In socialism, the ruling elite already has all the wealth of the nation in their hands. Even in the worst case scenario of a perfectly corrupt capitalist ruling elite, it still cannot possibly accumulate 100% of the nation resources - while for socialist governments, it is the core of the design.
  • @MayCaesar In capitalism, selfish people hoard the wealth and that is wrong. You will not change my mind, so stop trying.
    Nathaniel_B
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 271 Pts
    @NKJVPrewrather

    My dear, you are incredibly naive if you think that in any political system the government is not managed by selfish people hoarding wealth. Capitalism just makes it much more difficult for them to succeed at that, while in socialism the system is designed in a way that essentially turns the state treasury into a VIP-restricted gold mine. I know I will not change your mind, because you come from the position based on emotions and not on raw logic, so logical arguments will not sway you.
  • @MayCaesar
    What you have just said is out right ridiculous. Capitalism is not better for everyone else, because capitalism allows those who have all the wealth to have power over everyone else. Socialism is not better for the ruling elite because there is no ruling elite in socialism. Basically the opposite of what you said is true, capitalism is literally built on the assumption that there must be an "elite" class and the majority of people must work for them to "earn" a living. Socialism on the other hand is about giving what is produced back to the producers rather than giving 90% of it to the rich guy who's job is to make money from other people's work.
    Polaris95
  • @MayCaesar
    There are two glaring problems with your argument, first of all you assume that all socialism is authoritarian in nature when in reality your idea of socialism is not socialism but fascism masked as socialism. You don't understand how socialism is supposed to work because everything you know about socialism is derived from right wing propaganda and from observing bastardized forms of socialism. Also you are trying to tell people that a system that is fundamentally based on hoarding wealth makes it harder to hoard wealth, this is literally insane. Capitalism incentives and rewards those who engage in a Machiavellian battle for profit, whereas socialism is SUPPOSED to reward people for what they actually produce and provide everyone with the basic things they need to be productive (healthcare, education, nutrition etc.)
    Polaris95
  • Of course socialism is not better than capitalism. We have seen it been applied in many countries in Eastern Europe, parts of Latin America, and Southeast Asia during the 20th century. Have ANY of those nations prospered due to socialism? The answer is no. The MOST advanced nations of the world of this current century are capitalist, meanwhile those who still struggle with the deceased dream of success and prosperity of socialism still suffer. Propaganda has only allowed for there to be corruption, to fool the minds of the gullible, and the economic system does not work, we have already seen it. I am YET to see ONE TRUE socialist country compete with advanced capitalist nations, not jokes like North Korea, Cuba, and Vietnam.
    Nathaniel_B
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." ~Gene Roddenberry

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill
  • @George_Horse

    Germany of 30-s competed with the leading nations well in terms of economical productivity, albeit somewhat less so in terms of quality of life. Granted, it did allow a certain level of private enterpreneurship - but a very large sector of the economy was completely socialized.

    Of course, there were certain... drawbacks to that regime. But nonetheless, I think socialism under effective management, in theory, can compete in some aspects with advanced capitalist nations. It is the "under effective management" part which is almost never satisfied (and absolutely never long-term) that makes it unviable.

    Maybe in the distant future, when the management of entire states can be put into a perfectly designed AI's hands, socialism will be viable long-term. I would not wish to live in such a state, however.
  • Of course not. Socialism is garbage, the reason I have a nice house and a BMW is because I worked HARD to get them, but in socialism, I could not have any of those things. 
    “Communism is evil. Its driving forces are the deadly sins of envy and hatred.” ~Peter Drucker 

    "It's not a gun control problem, it's a cultural control problem."
    Bob Barr
  • Well done guys showing that Capitalists are unable to form arguments to support their beliefs. There's basically not a single solid argument for Capitalism in all of these posts - just people who think erroneously stating "Capitalism is good, socialism is bad, four legs good, two legs bad" over and over again makes it true; with it becoming truer the more strenuously you make those claims..

    I'm not going to bother responding to every post because pretty much every post can be countered with "Your opinion is not evidence" but I'll pick out a few:
    MayCaesar said:
    I would say that socialism is better for the ruling elite, while capitalism is better for everyone else. It, of course, depends on how you define "better" - but if "better" means possession of a larger amount of resources, then my point stands.
    Weird thing to say when those are actually areas that even the oppressive and in many ways backwards Soviet type regimes did better than Capitalism.

    Even according to the CIA Factbook the USA has one of the worst GINI coefficients (measures of inequality) in the world being in about the bottom fifth of measured nations while the USSR's historical GINI  puts it among the best nations with regards to ensuring the ruling elite don't prosper to the detriment of the ordinary working guy. That's basic stuff. I mean you could have made actual criticisms of aspects of previous socialist countries which were actual issues like civil liberties, but instead you make up fake claims.

    refugee said:
    Socialist do not understand much of anything but Bernie Sanders does he has a great plan for Socialism.

    Sen. Bernie Sanders' "Medicare for all" plan would increase government health care spending by $32.6 trillion over 10 years, according to a study by a university-based libertarian policy center. That's trillion with a "T."

    The latest plan from the Vermont independent would require historic tax increases as government replaces what employers and consumers now pay for health care, according to the analysis being released Monday by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University in Virginia. It would deliver significant savings on administration and drug costs, but increased demand for care would drive up spending,

    Nice plagarism maybe try writing your own posts next time.

    Of course even ignoring the plagarism your source shows the opposite of what you claim.

    It's a news article about a report from a libertarian policy centre funded by the far-right Koch brothers - about as biased as you would get. You'd think that would be a red flag, but let's look at what the report actually says because of course who goes off newspaper articles that can say anything rather than looking at studies first hand? 

    https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/blahous-costs-medicare-mercatus-working-paper-v1_1.pdf ;

    Although as it's incredibly biased it headlines the increase in federal spending up front, if you actually look at the findings you'll see that even the study admits (see the table on page 7) that medicare for All would SAVE people money. It increases federal taxes but it decreases personal spending by an even larger amount. In fact the overall change across 10 years would be a 2 TRILLION dollar SAVING to tax payers because the increase is tax is more than made up for the cost savings of no longer having to deal with insurance companies - and that's coming from right-wing, anti-government funded think tanks!refugee said:
    @KJVPrewrather

    Fallacy without question. Lacking knowledge has it's advantages does it not.
    Claiming something is fallacious without offering any reason why it is fallacious is itself (spoiler alert!)..... a fallacy!

    Supporting your claims is the most basic principle of debating. if you're not reachign that low level of debate you're basically on the same level as a child going "my dad could beat your dad up and if you disagree you're a stinky head".

    MayCaesar said:
    @NKJVPrewrather

    My dear, you are incredibly naive if you think that in any political system the government is not managed by selfish people hoarding wealth. Capitalism just makes it much more difficult for them to succeed at that, while in socialism the system is designed in a way that essentially turns the state treasury into a VIP-restricted gold mine. I know I will not change your mind, because you come from the position based on emotions and not on raw logic, so logical arguments will not sway you.
    You are a condescending idiot. You have not presented a logical opinion, you've just presented your opinion without a single iota of evidence to back it up. You are ideologically entrenched and relying on youremotional knee-jerk reaction rather than forming anything coherent.

    NKJVPrewrather's argument is actually superior to yours because morality is a valid point to raise and one where personal feelings matter, while baseless claims about how and why socialism works aren't true just because you say so.
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