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Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?
in Religion

By JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts

 (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men.  All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle.  They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.  Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder.  They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived.  After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp.  But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded.  “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

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  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 541 Pts
    From my experience, they do not as much defend the worse manifestations of the alleged god's morals in the Bible, as they try to downplay/dismiss them. I will make a more relateable analogy to demonstrate what I mean by that.

    ---

    Consider how the average Chinese comes in terms with their country's history during Mao Zedong's rule. Suppose you ask that Chinese: "What do you think of Mao?" You will find that the Chinese will rarely, if ever, give you a straight answer. They will be maybe embarrassed, maybe dismissive, maybe trying to change the subject - but they will rarely plainly speak their mind. Here is why.

    You see, while Mao's crimes were officially condemned by the ruling Communist Party of China, the government has always hesitated to outright call him a criminal. After all, the whole political system of China that is in use nowadays was founded by Mao, the state ideology was mostly formulated by Mao, and there are many members of CPC who were already in the party at the time of Mao and owe their current positions to him. It goes as far as hesitating to remove the portrait of Mao from the mausoleum on the central square of Beijing, because whoever dares to even suggest such an action would put themselves in grave danger from the party.

    This attitude leaks down to the population, the outlook of which is hard-controlled by the state media and education. Does the average Chinese know that Mao caused dozens millions people to die? Of course. Does the average Chinese also know that their current system exists thanks to Mao? Yes. It is very hard for the person to reconcile these two facts and still support the current system, so they prefer not to reconcile it at all and simply pretend that Maoist China never happened. Even among Chinese students studying here in the US, I noticed this hesitation with regards to discussing that period in the history of China: it is a mix of shame, of intellectual dishonesty and of a couple of decades of conditioning under the totalitarian regime.

    It was somewhat similar in late Soviet Union with regards to Stalin. They would praise Lenin and Brezhnev, but avoid mentioning what was going on during Stalin's era - they did talk about World War 2 a lot, but preferred to focus on the heroism of soldiers and generals, and avoided mentioning the mustache guy.

    ---

    It is similar here, I would imagine. How can a Christian follow the modern interpretation of the Bible that considers the god to be benevolent, just and loving - while the Bible also describes many monstrous acts committed by the god, or under the approval from the god? Simple: they avoid having to reconcile these contradictions by focusing on the side of the contradiction that supports the narrative the modern Christian teachings instilled in them. This way, they are never confronted by the other side of the matter, removing the contradiction from the equation.

    Ideologies have never been about logic. The demands of logic make the concept of "ideology" lacking in self-consistency, and it is only possible to pursue an ideology by focusing on its positive sides and downplaying its negative sides.
    Evidence
  • ethang5ethang5 50 Pts
    @MayCaesar

    You said, "they avoid having to reconcile these contradictions"

    What "contradictions" would those be?

    Is it possible that the Christian does not agree with you that the acts were "monstrous" or that they constitute any contradiction to his understanding of the nature of God?

    You come in, and without argument or reasoning, define the thinking of the Christian as if you could know it, judge God by your personal moral code as if your code were authoritative, and pronounce your verdict, all without one word of debate being exchanged between you and the Christian. Impressive.

    Do you win a lot of debates against yourself?
    with_all_humility
  • keithprosserkeithprosser 15 Pts
    edited August 7
    Most Christians believe that the the OT and NT reflect a major change in the relationship ('covenant') between God and the Hebrews and God and humanity in general.

    Under the old covenant YHWH was the god of the Hebrews, and only of the Hebrew - other tribes were enemies, fit only to be conquered and enslaved.   The new covenant was unversalist.


    with_all_humility
  • pocopoco 88 Pts
    God knew that the Israelites would stray from the "holy" people He envisioned for them if they brought any/many of the 'outsiders' into their community.  The Israelites had a penchant for following the traditions of the women they captured in the promised land.  Evidently, God saw this from the many years in the desert, so rather than having them being led to follow a pagan lifestyle, God eliminated that possibility b4 it could take hold of the entire Israelite community.

    This is quite evident in the bible when one reads the entire story, rather than a few choice verses here & there ...... as it seems you may have done in this case.  It was quite a violent & horrible culture to live in back then.  Many conquering armies would annihilate towns so they wouldn't have to care for the people they captured.  They my havee taken the spoils they could use, but raping the women, then killing them later ws something I suppose God didn't want on their agenda. 

    Plus, people living in a violent & pagan culture would only promote future evil actions.  So, instead of fighting with these peoples as time went on, God instructed His people to eliminate all obstacles ASAP.  Sounds like a great military, political & religious tactic to me.  Besides, any people that God knew were "good," He gave them eternal reward.  A win win for all sides.
    with_all_humility
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @poco

    Yes an absolutely “ wonderful “ military tactic all ordered sanctioned and approved by a “ loving “ god , kill the women and children and keep the virgins for yourself and all this because he a loving forgiving god .....ooookay 


    But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded.  “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.


    Lovely isnt it ? Praise the lord 
  • ethang5ethang5 50 Pts
    @Joeseph

    This is really sick! Someone is arguing that the young virgin girls be killed also.

    How would have that been better?
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts


    I’m arguing no such a thing where did I say the young virgin girls should be killed ? 

    So you argree with young virgin girls being given away to men ?

    You also agree that women who slept with a man be butchered and their children ......Wow !  
  • pocopoco 88 Pts
    Evidently you didn't read my initial response re the reason ..... or just have so much prejudice you cannot understand it.  That's the problem with looking at ancient cultures with today's perspective.  I just gotta laugh .......
    with_all_humility
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @poco

    Oh I did and you’ve no defence and yes I do understand what the slaughter of women and kids mean , ah so the actions of a murdering immoral god must not be judged on today’s standards ......ooookay 

    You gotta laugh.......


    lets remind ourselves again .......
    Yes an absolutely “ wonderful “ military tactic all ordered sanctioned and approved by a “ loving “ god , kill the women and children and keep the virgins for yourself and all this because he a loving forgiving god .....ooookay 


    But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded.  “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
  • @Joeseph

    Why do you have a chip on your shoulder concerning ancient Hebrew war tactics?  You can go over to pre-flood history and see what the danger of allowing women of deferent cultures into the midst of Godly people.  

    Gen 6:1-2:  Now it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful, and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.  

    The sons of God are descendants of Seth and would have been Godly men/women the daughter of men would have been the descendants of Cain who worshiped false gods and idols.  Many time throughout the Bible the mixing of cultures led to Godly people straying from the will of God.  In Gen 6 the corruptness that was manifested by holy men marrying worldly women brought civilization to a complete end except for eight who were chosen to be on the Ark.  

    We can look to King Soloman as well, who is know to have been the wisest man who ever lived.  In 1 Kings we find the following...

    1Ki 11.1-6:  But King Solomon loved many foreign women, as well as the daughter of Pharaoh: women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians, and Hittites—from the nations of whom the LORD had said to the children of Israel, "You shall not intermarry with them, nor they with you. Surely they will turn away your hearts after their gods." Solomon clung to these in love.  And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.  For it was so, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned his heart after other gods; and his heart was not loyal to the LORD his God, as was the heart of his father David.  For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.   Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD and did not fully follow the LORD, as did his father David.

    So, even the wisest man ever, succumbed to the pressures of ungodly women and began to worship false gods and idols.

    God knows the heart of man, meaning that he knows how man is going to behave.  God gives man free will to choose whatever path he/she may want to pursue.  God does not stop mankind from making bad decisions.  God has established his rules and laws in order to save man from eternal death.  We only have to follow those rules and for those of us today that would be the Law or Christ. However, during the time of Moses mankind was immature and need more stringent laws in order to keep them holy.   When the children of Israel would go and take a land, God told them to wipe out all of the inhabitants.  Because they were an evil people who did not know God and worship false gods, normally by offering up children sacrifice (See Leviticus) and as in times past he knew that the people from these other nations would eventually lead the children of Isreal into an apostasy.  

    This is why Moses was mad, that the men of Israel did not kill every last person...Even Moses know what the outcome would be.

    Low and behold as you read in the OT that is exactly what happens to the Jewish nation...ultimately leading to there total destruction in AD 70

    Now you can cherry-pick certain instance in the OT and make pretextual arguments for how evil God is.  However, your arguments will never hold, for you fail to take into account the whole purpose behind God's actions.  

    You are a free moral agent, you can choose to live your life however you see fit.  Why you feel the need to question or elevate your so-called moral character to that of being above God's is beyond me.  If you don't want to be a follower of God that your choice, but don't try to outwit and belittle people who hold His name as sacred.  

  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @with_all_humility


    You ask .....Why do you have a chip on your shoulder concerning ancient Hebrew war tactics?  


    My reply ......Strange that isn’t it that I would have a “problem “ with a god ordering the slaughter of innocent children and women 


    You say .....You can go over to pre-flood history and see what the danger of allowing women of deferent cultures into the midst of Godly people



    My reply ...... So you’re solution approved by god is slaughter such women and there kids ? 



    You say .....Now you can cherry-pick certain instance in the OT and make pretextual arguments for how evil God is.  


    My reply .....A definition .....


    A pretext (adj: pretextual) is an excuse to do something or say something that is not accurate. Pretexts may be based on a half-truth or developed in the context of a misleading fabrication. Pretexts have been used to conceal the true purpose or rationale behind actions and words.


    So you’re rightly uncomfortable with the actions of your god as you should be so this lame excuse is rolled out ......Pre-textural indeed 



    You say .....However, your arguments will never hold, for you fail to take into account the whole purpose behind God's actions.  


    My Reply ..... They hold fine , really ? So you’re justifying the slaughter of women and children 


    You say ......You are a free moral agent, you can choose to live your life however you see fit.  



    My reply ...... I’m aware of this 


    You say .....Why you feel the need to question or elevate your so-called moral character to that of being above God's is beyond me.  


    My reply ......I’ve never ordered the slaughter of women and children so I’m vastly morally superior to the Christian god 




    You say .....If you don't want to be a follower of God that your choice, but don't try to outwit and belittle people who hold His name as sacred.  


    My reply ......I don’t tend to follow tyrants and slaughterers of children , yes people also held Stalin , Mao and Hitler as sacred 


    I’m not trying to “ outwit “ anyone it’s all in your favourite book so maybe you should thin’ about that , BTW taking offence is not an argument 


  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    Joeseph is just another person who DOESN'T understand the Torah. HaShem gave the Goys three paths to choose before he let Yehoshua loose: repent from child sacrifice and become G-d fearing Jews, leave the land peacefully, or war it out. Is HaShem a blood thirsty G-d? If you want to believe such hogwash, go ahead. But the real answer is, of course, no. These people weren't "innocent," here, let me give an example. 

    Imagine if you could go back in time and kill this one child named Adolf Hitler. He'd be innocent, at the time, yes, but if you did just a "little evil" for a "greater good" (i.e., saving millions upon millions) wouldn't that be so wrong in the end? It was the same here, the Torah, and later, Tanakh (OT) is a historic record, why do you think it has an agenda? Everyone's got one, right? The Torah is truth. It wouldn't lie about these people, who were willing to sacrifice their own daughters and sons to please some wacko gods which never existed in the first place. Same with Sodom, let's have your kid raped, as happened to Lot, then we'll see how "innocent" who think those people were. Right? Want to give it a go? Of course not, I'm only kidding, but I've hoped I've got my point across.

    Pathetic arguments from your side.

    P A T H E T I C ! 

    By the way, Stalin, Mao and Hitler weren't Christians, and they definitely weren't Jews either! Two of them were atheist, the wonders of "that religion" will always bewilder me. 

    I'm happy you're seeking for truth, and I'm not going to say I've got it all too, those people are get rich quick scammers, stay away from them, on the other hand, you must never take a text OUT OF CONTEXT. First read the entire book of Yehoshua, then decide for yourself who was blood thirsty, HaShem or the Goy nations occupying the land at that time. Also note that we Jews will never have war with those nations again, it was a one time thing, it is self-evident that we're a peaceful people, after all, after all we've been through, we're not driving planes into buildings occupied with innocent Christians who had no choice in those matters long ago when my people where thrown in ghettos and suffered, raped, and died. 
  • ethang5ethang5 50 Pts
    @Joeseph

    I’m arguing no such a thing where did I say the young virgin girls should be killed ? 

    >Well, you seemed upset that they weren't killed. What do you think should have been done with them? Turn them over to child protective services?

    So you argree with young virgin girls being given away to men ?

    >If the alternative is them being killed or left to die in the desert, yes!

    You also agree that women who slept with a man be butchered and their children ......Wow !  

    >No Sir. But I know that people die in war. Something you seem not to understand.
    Evidence
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    Ha! Look at Joseph, he knows nothing of what the Torah tells us other than what he reads on Facebook! Come one, as if those Jews, who were seduced into having naughty relations with those women and sinned, resulting in a plague which killed 15,000, would now become pedophiles and repeat the whole mess. What a J O K E, this guy! What's he going to say next, that the Talmud condones it! Give me a break.
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @ethang5


    You say .....Well, you seemed upset that they weren't killed. .....


    My reply .....That once again is because of your lack of comprehension skills .


    You seem delighted at gods decision to approve of the murder of women and children


    You say .....What do you think should have been done with them? Turn them over to child protective services?


    My reply ..... Hey yeah you’re right you’ve just slaughtered their families best give them away as sex slaves 




    You say ....If the alternative is them being killed or left to die in the desert, yes!


    My reply .... The wonders of Christianity 




    You say .....No Sir. 


    My reply ....Great , you disapprove of what your god sanctioned 


    You say .....But I know that people die in war. Something you seem not to understand.



    My reply ..... I do , but hey they’re great if god commands them aren’t they ?

  • ethang5ethang5 50 Pts
    Joeseph said:
    @ethang5

    You say .....Well, you seemed upset that they weren't killed...

    My reply .....That once again is because of your lack of comprehension skills .

    > You've complained about them not being killed, and complained about them being killed. When you figure out your position, let me know.

    You seem delighted at gods decision to approve of the murder of women and children

    >No, I'm wondering which judge declared it to be murder? But it must be your reading comprehension that is making you think I'm delighted.

    You say .....What do you think should have been done with them? Turn them over to child protective services?

    My reply ..... Hey yeah you’re right you’ve just slaughtered their families best give them away as sex slaves 

    >You did not answer as to what should be done with them. I wonder why?

    You say ....If the alternative is them being killed or left to die in the desert, yes!

    My reply .... The wonders of Christianity 

    >You haven't a clue what debate is do you? Emotional arguments may make you feel good, but they aren't winners. Pretend the readers can't see into your head.

    You say .....No Sir. 

    My reply ....Great , you disapprove of what your god sanctioned 

    > Any "concession" you can get by lying, you are welcome to.

    You say .....But I know that people die in war. Something you seem not to understand.

    My reply ..... I do , but hey they’re great if god commands them aren’t they ?

    It will come as a shock to you that God doesn't operate on your personal moral code eh?

    >Don't worry. We will alert Him that He isn't doing what you like, and I'm sure He will straighten up shortly.

    Really. The nerve of God.


  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @Judaism


    You say .....Joeseph is just another person who DOESN'T understand the Torah. 



    My reply ......Judaism is just  another indoctrinated one of the sheeple 


    You say .....Imagine if you could go back in time and kill this one child named Adolf Hitler. He'd be innocent, at the time, yes, but if you did just a "little evil" for a "greater good" (i.e., saving millions upon millions) wouldn't that be so wrong in the end? It was the same here, the Torah, and later, Tanakh (OT) is a historic record, why do you think it has an agenda? 



    My reply ......I think nothing of the Torah only that it’s contradictbook of nonsense


    You say.....Everyone's got one, right? The Torah is truth. It wouldn't lie about these people, who were willing to sacrifice their own daughters and sons to please some wacko gods which never existed in the first place. Same with Sodom, let's have your kid raped, as happened to Lot, then we'll see how "innocent" who think those people were. Right? Want to give it a go? Of course not, I'm only kidding, but I've hoped I've got my point across.


    My reply .....You’re making no sense 


    You say......Pathetic arguments from your side. 


    P A T H E T I C ! 


    My reply .....The truth hurts 


    You say .....By the way, Stalin, Mao and Hitler weren't Christians......


    My reply ..... Hiltler was a Catholic 




    You say ......and they definitely weren't Jews either! 


    My reply .....So what ?


    You say .....Two of them were atheist, the wonders of "that religion" will always bewilder me. 


    My reply .....Atheism is not a “ religion “ and Stalinist or Mao never aske€ people to kill I;the name of Atheism 


    You say .....I'm happy you're seeking for truth, 



    My reply .....Are you ? I’m not seeking it as I know it 


    You say .....and I'm not going to say I've got it all too, those people are get rich quick scammers, stay away from them, on the other hand, you must never take a text OUT OF CONTEXT. 



    My reply .......So there a good context for murdering children and babies ? 


    You say .....First read the entire book of Yehoshua, then decide for yourself who was blood thirsty, HaShem or the Goy nations occupying the land at that time. Also note that we Jews will never have war with those nations again, it was a one time thing, it is self-evident that we're a peaceful people, after all, after all we've been through, we're not driving planes into buildings occupied with innocent Christians who had no choice in those matters long ago when my people where thrown in ghettos and suffered, raped, and died. 



    My reply ..... Thanks for the Teary eyed lecture but I’m not  interested 


  • pocopoco 88 Pts
    Doesn't Joseph remind you of some of the ...... ahem, more colorful people on DDO that we got so tired of listening to their self-righteous rants that contained no truth, & only non contextual interpretations on selected verses of the bible?  rextr
    with_all_humilityEvidence
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @ethang5



    You say .... You've complained about them not being killed


    My reply ..... I didn’t , but hey you’re a Christian so lying comes easy to you 


    ,

    You say .....No I'm wondering which judge declared it to be murder? 


    My reply ..... Certainly not you or god who totally approve of the murder  of women and children 


    You say ......But it must be your reading comprehension that is making you think I'm delighted.


    My reply .....So you do diapprove of your gods actions .....oooookay 


    You say .....You did not answer as to what should be done with them. I wonder why?


    My reply ..... let them live , wonder why you applaud the murder of women and children 



    You say ....You haven't a clue what debate is do you? 


    My reply ..... Says you with several accounts and you make no sense in any of them 


    You say .......Emotional arguments may make you feel good, but they aren't winners. Pretend the readers can't see into your head.


    My reply .....Yes, best not get upset over the slaughter of women and children , 

    Pretend ? Why ?



    You say .....Any "concession" you can get by lying, 


    My reply .....I haven’t lied yet you cannot type a sentence without doing so 




    You say .......Don't worry. We will alert Him that He isn't doing what you like, and I'm sure He will straighten up shortly.


    My reply ......You really mean you will knell on the floor and talk to yourself .....got ya 


    You say ......Really. The nerve of God.


    My reply .....Yeah , the nerve of child killers 

  • pocopoco 88 Pts

    you:  Oh I did and you’ve no defence


    me:  Do you think as long as you put something in print, such as this, it automatically becomes truth?  I just gotta laugh.


    you:  and yes I do understand what the slaughter of women and kids mean , ah so the actions of a murdering immoral god must not be judged on today’s standards ......ooookay 

    You gotta laugh.......



    me:  Not too much on being original huh?  (see above).

    lets remind ourselves again .......
    Yes an absolutely “ wonderful “ military tactic all ordered sanctioned and approved by a “ loving “ god , kill the women and children and keep the virgins for yourself and all this because he a loving forgiving god .....ooookay 


    But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded.  “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

    me:  Yes, ...... & ? .......... your point here?  (Please refer to my original comment).
    Just bc you don't agree with what transpired back then, doesn't make it contextually wrong.  Maybe consider taking ancient civilization culture studies program to realize your misconception re this.  Nah, why find try to find truth, when your prejudices & hate serve your personal narrative so well?

  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @poco

    You remind me of the typical  breast beating Christian nut who goes knocking on doors spewing nonsense all the time thinking he’s the “ sane “ one 
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @Judaism

    Hey , look at Judaism reads a book of gibberish and lectures people on F B what a joke , what about another teary eyed finale about the Jews like your last one ?
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @poco


    You’re making no sense ,  calm down and write something sensible and I may reply 
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    @Joeseph

    You say Hitler was Catholic? JOKER! My ace in the hole! See my article DEBUNKING that myth here: https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1d7knCqz59ZSYENxdLo-WObryQyvH3p2Wk8MRDF193uM/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=107499751464730195474

    (He grew up Catholic, but left it).

    Am I just another "indoctrinated sheeple"? Well, for one thing, I hate fanatics. So no. Do I follow the Torah and Talmud? Of course. Are you any different than me? No. You're human, and follow human voices, you read their work. . . just you don't believe in HaShem... a little strange, why? How can there not be a G-d? Who runs the show? You? Hardly. 

    A man sees a house, who built the house? A man looks up at the stars, measures the universe from end to end, and then looks within himself or herself, to see the darkest and reaches of his or her soul. Who is the architect of all that? It's not a he, we don't call G-d "he" all the time, there's a female aspect as well, so then, what? The Ein Sof. In English, G-d. But the Ein Sof doesn't have a name, so what do we call "it"? HaShem, "the name." In Hebrew, that's השם. Another term to be used in the English rendered "Lord," or, as we say it, "Adonai." That's the architect, that's the builder of the house. . . and the greatest proof of it.... you! Yes, you are the greatest proof for G-d! 

    Funny world we live in.

    You say the Torah contradicts itself, well, welcome to Rashi-land! Who was Rashi? A great sage. What did he do? Well, he just woke up. He woke up one day and saw everything you see, all throughout his precious Torah, and there were not just contradictions, enigmas, repeated phrases, discarded ideas, all of it had to be reconciled with. So what did Rashi do? He picked up the pen, and began to write. Christians and those who espouse that goofy theory we'll just call the Documentary Hypothesis, would do well to google some answers of Rashi's. Perhaps they'd learn a thing or two. We don't need your gibberish, we have Rashi, he does away with all the lies you people strive to put on paper, centuries ago.

    Yes, there are no contradictions in the Torah. Case in point: "In the beginning, G-d created of the heavens and the earth." (Bereshit 1:1)

    But the original verse opens up with בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית, which does not mean, "In the beginning." What it really translates to is, "In the beginning of. . . ." But what's with this "of"? Why "of"? This is grammatically incorrect, and as Jews, we know G-d doesn't make mistakes, so why now? It's just a stylistic approach on G-d's end. That's it. So if you read Bereshit 1:1 literally, the mistake dissolves, and G-d's Torah turns out to be perfect after all, but only with an oral tradition which allows us to correctly interpret biblical texts. Look through any biblical concordance, and you'll quickly realize that the noun בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית means either Jew or Torah. Well, it doesn't makes much sense that G-d could have created the world using the Jews, we're a people, not a scientific method! It only makes sense if He used the Torah as a blueprint for creation, and that's exactly the point the rabbis made. This is because they held to the view that one could change themselves from the inside out by studying G-d's word, in retrospect, the grammatical mistake no longer appears faulty - because we've discovered a deeper message hidden within the text. This, in halacha (Jewish law), is what's called p’shat study of the text, or the use of a linguistic, literary, and historical context to unlock deeper meaning.

    But that's just one example. Let's dig a little deeper.

    In the tenth century, there was a family called Ben Asher who claimed to have had knowledge handed down from Moshe Rabbeinu. Now for Jews and Christians alike (though I should say unbeknownst to the latter), they
    solved a great complexity. What is that complexity? If the vocalization of a single Hebrew word is changed, even slightly, then you wind up with a completely different interpretation of a given verse; and I do not say this lightly. In the Hebrew language, there are twenty-two consonants in total. No vowels whatsoever were given to Moshe Rabbeinu.

    That's the problem, that's the complexity!

    Before this exegesis in the tenth century, one would have had to have been personally trained by a rabbi in order to understand much of what the Torah was saying. In fact, Moshe knew a Torah without spaces,
    thetextwouldhavebeenkindalikethis?canyoucomprehendwhati'mconveyinghere? How did the children of Israel know how to read the Torah? Moses taught it orally. Today, every Torah scroll that is written in parchment and kept inside the ark of a Shul is written in this manner out of respect for the one the pioneers of faith received.

    As an example, let us use Shemot 23:19. The text is, at first, a discarded enigma, because it reads, "Do not cook a calf in its mother's milk" - חלב. The problem is, one could vocalize חלב in two ways, either as milk (chalav - חָלָב) or fat (chelev - חֵלֶב), so how does one know what G-d is commanding? It's not simply about the look of
    "fat," its the definitions of polar opposite terminology!  Without an oral law, let alone the correct diacritical pronunciation of Hebrew without vowel points (nekudot), what does G-d mean? Moshe sure knew, so why can't we? It is then on this basis alone that we must accept the validity of an oral tradition. But enough of that, I'm digressing. 

    ... Joseph, you completely missed my point regarding Sodom. This highlights your ignorance. Those people were rapist, would you want your children growing up in such an environment? END OF CASE. I won't repeat myself again. If you're not smart enough to grasp such a simple concept, go suck that weenie down there.

    You're next remark was dumb. Atheism is not a religion. Really? Investigate it further, you'll see the light.

    Then you say there's a "good context for murdering babies" but why do you say this? Because you're lazy, you want to feel as if you're better than the Ein Sof, as if you know that the Torah is truly evil, what outlandish claims you espouse, what utter nonsense. This Goy here claims to KNOW all about Judaism when he never learned the difference between his rear-side but-hole and his sloppy you know what. And how do I know all this? Because you foolishly said in the end something that sounded pretty much.... retarded. You said, "thanks for the Teary eyed lecture but I’m not  interested" in reading the whole Book of Yehoshua.

    Are you stupid? Seriously, I'll ask it again just for added effect....

    ARE YOU RETARDED? SHOULD YOU BE IN A MENTAL INSTITUTION NOW? SHOULD YOUR MOMMY FEED YOU MILK AND COOKIES EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE LIKE MID-AGE, LET'S SAY?

    I've heard that mirrors don't talk, luckily, in your case, they don't laugh either. 

    Seriously! What a farce! The guy says he KNOW what the Book of Yehoshua's all about, says he's not taking things out of context, but then is unwilling to read the whole work for himself! 

    YOU'RE KIDDING ME, RIGHT?

    You took everything out of context, but hide behind the closet like a little trembling kid afraid of his daddy when you REFUSE, REFUSE to read the entire work to GET CORRECT CONTEXT.

    It's a good thing zombies eat brains, so you don't have to worry. 

    You stupidly handed me all the cards, I just won the match. YOU CANNOT CLAIM TO KNOW WHAT A BOOK SAYS WHEN TAKING A VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT AND THEN REFUSING TO READ THE ENTIRE WORK.

    People like you are IDIOTS. People like you say that all Muslims are evil, or that the Talmud allows rabbis to suck the little dicks of 3 year old boys. Disgusting! People like you got my ancestors killed, KILLED, because they THOUGHT a book, like the Talmud, said something it didn't when THEY, like you, REFUSED TO READ IT IN CONTEXT. You're a dangerous human being, Josephus, according to your vibe of scholarship, all Muslims are terrorists because the Quran SUPPOSEDLY says so. Well, good luck preaching that hogwash.

    And if you follow that crap, guess what you are?
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    Joseph, Look here, I'm not retired, I have a life, I won't debate you on this for long. Take my answer and run with it 
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    edited August 8
    @Judaism

    Wow ! What a hate filled tirade and from a follower of Jesus what a surprise , no doubt you’re yet another “ believer “ who says preaches one thing but practices the complete opposite , I may deem to address your inane rant tomorrow but from your lengthy piece of nonsense it would appear Kurt  Cobains garage wall has more brains than you .......Any more   tear jerking stories about Jewish ghettos ? 
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    @Joeseph,

    This guy thinks I'm a believer in Jesus! Haha! Can't he tell the difference between an Orthodox Jew and a Christian? Just because I write on this page doesn't mean I'm Christian, bro. Was my work hate filled? Everyone says your's is. I'll let our readers by the judge of that.

    Do I "preach" one thing than do another? Hey bud, no one's perfect, we all do our best.

    You want more "tear jerking" stories of our oppression and the Shoah? That's both good and bad to hear, good because you'll finally learn something about morality and respect, bad because I'm getting this vibe that you just plan to mock.

    Yes, please respond to all my comments tmr. While you're at it, it would do you good to watch about 50 minutes into this film by Rabbi Mizrachi, try and debunk all his scientific research, I already know you'll fail. If you need time, let me know. I'll wait.

    Link to it here, it's free, so no excuses: 

  • Joeseph said:
    @with_all_humility


    "Strange that isn’t it that I would have a “problem “ with a god ordering the slaughter of innocent children and women"

    • Why are you stuck on the killing of women and children, as many have pointed out to you the people were not "innocent" in the eyes of the Lord? 

    "So you’re solution approved by God is slaughter such women and their kids?"

    • No, it is not my solution, it is the means by which God dealt with sinful nations at the time of Moses.  I am not part of the solution, it is not my thoughts on the matter, I've given you the insight that the Bible has revealed unto us...Now we can accept that as God's truth or reject it and in doing so reject God as well.  I don't believe God ever said we had to like what his judgments were, however, to be in the good graces of God we have to accept them and recognize that they served a purpose in the scheme of redemption.   
    "A pretext (adj: pretextual) is an excuse to do something or say something that is not accurate. Pretexts may be based on a half-truth or developed in the context of a misleading fabrication. Pretexts have been used to conceal the true purpose or rationale behind actions and words."
    • Yes, when you cherry-pick passages of scripture and don't consider the context of what is happening you make a false claim and promote a false doctrine.  That is exactly what you are doing.  No one here is saying you have to accept what God has done, in fact, you claim to be an atheist and therefore nobody expects you to accept God's actions.  However, don't pull verses out of context to promote your ideology.  I believe you to be smarter than that to resort to such tactics.

    "So you’re rightly uncomfortable with the actions of your god as you should be so this lame excuse is rolled out ......Pre-textural indeed" 

    • I'm not uncomfortable with what is recorded in the Bible, while I don't profess to be a scholar or even a subject matter expert on the Bible.  I have read it and studied it enough to know there was a purpose for everything that was recorded by the Holy Spirit.  As a person who claims to know so much about the Bible, you should know this as well.

    "They hold fine, really? So you’re justifying the slaughter of women and children"

    • I don't justify anything, again read the Bible and take into account all that has been revealed in the sacred text. Just as Judaism has told you, the people you are so concerned about were not innocent at all and that is what God ordered them to be dealt with.  Instead of trying to pass these women and children as innocent bystanders be honest and take into account the history of their actions. 

    "I’ve never ordered the slaughter of women and children so I’m vastly morally superior to the Christian god"

    • So is a judge immoral to sentence a person to be put to death as punishment for his/her crimes?
    • Is the solder on the battlefield immoral for killing the enemy
    • Am I immoral if I don't allow my daughter to date a person of questionable character?
    • Is a father immoral for not allowing their children to hang out with thugs?  
    • Is it immoral to tell you child homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle?
    • Where do you draw the line on morality and what gives you the authority to do so?

    "I don’t tend to follow tyrants and slaughterers of children, yes people also held Stalin, Mao and Hitler as sacred"

    • One the Bible does not teach or tell us to go and wipe out civilizations, two Stalin, Mao and Hitler should never be compared to or said to be that of diety.  The OT law has passed, we are under a new convent with Christ.  The OT is there for us to a better understanding of the character of God.  The takeaway of God forbidding the inhabitants of a land to remain a life is the same as putting a little yeast in bread.  I'm sure you have heard the saying "a little leaven leaveneth the whole loaf".  It same for corrupt human behavior, amongst the innocent. 

    I’m not trying to “ outwit “ anyone it’s all in your favourite book so maybe you should thin’ about that , BTW taking offence is not an argument 

    • Where did I say taking offense?  I said don't belittle people...the purpose of debate is to communicate...correct?  When you belittle those you are communicating with, barriers go up and effective communication ceases to happen.  Perhaps I was wrong, but I thought you to be of the caliber of person to be above such tactics.  
    I enjoy healthy conversation and will concede when I'm in error, but I also don't want to be running in circles.  Is there any other evidence for your position other than personal opinion?  I've debated the several here at debateisland and DDO on the subject of is God of the Bible immoral, as well as others, I'm by no means the only person defending the Bible.  In these debates, the only standard of morality that is measured against the Bible is personal opinion.  Can you produce some ancient manuscripts that say these people who were decimated were good and moral people?

  • @Judaism

    Can't get your video to work, would love to check it out.
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    with_all_humility 

    This site won't allow posting videos, just in case, the link is below. Again, if that fails, just Youtube Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi The Purpose of Life. It's an interesting film, one atheists should take a second to ponder. Thanks for asking, and let me know your thoughts!



    P.S., if you only want to watch the part where he "proves" HaShem (Ein Sof/G-d), just watch the first 60 minutes. If you feel he's right after that, finish the rest of the film, as it pertains to our purpose in this world and fulfilling our destiny to make the world a better place.

    See, atheists just can't get that, all we want to do is make the world a better place. An easy concept, right?
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    with_all_humility just a thought I just had.... Mr. Joeseph here is going to mock us. ....He's going to say, "oh, you goof balls live your lives by some old, ancient book of laws, such as Torah and Talmud Bavli, Zohar, etc." But doesn't he too live by "the laws of others"? I mean, just think of it, where does he get his laws from? What about societal norms, where do they come from? Our laws in the US and Israel are kept in a book, if you break the law, serve punishment, if not, reward. See? We all follow laws. So it doesn't matter if we chose to follow the Bible, it's just one extra package of laws. 
    with_all_humility
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @Judaism

    You say ...." But doesn't he too live by "the laws of others"? I mean, just think of it, where does he get his laws from? What about societal norms, where do they come from? Our laws in the US and Israel are kept in a book, if you break the law, serve punishment, if not, reward. See? We all follow laws. So it doesn't matter if we chose to follow the Bible, it's just one extra package of laws. 

    My reply .....I don’t mock yous I critique the vile books you call sacred , incidentally you were the one who called me stupid , a retard , and told me to go suck my weenie yet you call yourself a Christian, what hypocrisy .

    My laws are the ones used in my country , societal norms are informed by society and are evolving with society all the time just like yours .

    You don’t follow the Bible as you ignore the other 613 other commandments also you don’t eve;follow the other 10 you fool  
  • ethang5ethang5 50 Pts
    Judaism said:
    @Joeseph,

    This guy thinks I'm a believer in Jesus! Haha! Can't he tell the difference between an Orthodox Jew and a Christian?

    >I don't think it matters to him. Fine points are not his thing.

    Was my work hate filled? Everyone says your's is. I'll let our readers by the judge of that.

    >We've decided. His was hate filled and logic devoid.

  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @Judaism


    You say .....You say Hitler was Catholic? JOKER! My ace in the hole! See my article DEBUNKING that myth here: https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1d7knCqz59ZSYENxdLo-WObryQyvH3p2Wk8MRDF193uM/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=107499751464730195474


    (He grew up Catholic, but left it).



    My reply ......Yes you idiot , he was a Catholic 



    You say .....Well, for one thing, I hate fanatics. So no. Do I follow the Torah and Talmud? Of course. Are you any different than me? No. You're human, and follow human voices, you read their work. 


    My reply .....I don’t “ follow” human voices and my life decisions are not informed by a book of vile nonsense 


    . You say .....just you don't believe in HaShem... a little strange, why? How can there not be a G-d? Who runs the show? You? Hardly. 



    My reply .....What show ? Why does it need someone “ running “ it ? 




    You say .......A man sees a house, who built the house? 


    My reply .....A builder we know houses are man made you clot 


    You say .....A man looks up at the stars, measures the universe from end to end, and then looks within himself or herself, to see the darkest and reaches of his or her soul. Who is the architect of all that? 



    My reply .....who created your creator that’s what you’re asking  ? 





    You say........ It's not a he, we don't call G-d "he" all the time, there's a female aspect as well, so then, what? The Ein Sof. In English, G-d. But the Ein Sof doesn't have a name, so what do we call "it"? HaShem, "the name." In Hebrew, that's השם. Another term to be used in the English rendered "Lord," or, as we say it, "Adonai." That's the architect, that's the builder of the house. . . and the greatest proof of it.... you! Yes, you are the greatest proof for G-d! 


    My reply.... , prove it 


    You say .....Funny world we live in.


    My reply .....Is it indeed


    You say.....You say the Torah contradicts itself, well, welcome to Rashi-land! Who was Rashi? A great sage. What did he do? Well, he just woke up. He woke up one day and saw everything you see, all throughout his precious Torah, and there were not just contradictions, enigmas, repeated phrases, discarded ideas, all of it had to be reconciled with. So what did Rashi do? He picked up the pen, and began to write. Christians and those who espouse that goofy theory we'll just call the Documentary Hypothesis, would do well to google some answers of Rashi's. Perhaps they'd learn a thing or two. We don't need your gibberish, we have Rashi, he does away with all the lies you people strive to put on paper, centuries ago.


    My reply .....What a pile of nonsense ,you have the gibberish of Rashi  


    You say......Yes, there are no contradictions in the Torah. Case in point: "In the beginning, G-d created of the heavens and the earth." (Bereshit 1:1)blah ,blah ,blah 


    But the original verse opens up with בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית, which does not mean,blah , blah , blah 


    Before this exegesis in the tenth century, one would have had to have been personally trained by a rabbi in order to understand much of what the Torah was saying. In fact, Moshe knew a Torah, blah , blah , blah 


    My reply ......Anyone ever tell you how boring you are ? 




    You say... Joseph, you completely missed my point regarding Sodom. This highlights your ignorance. Those people were rapist, would you want your children growing up in such an environment? END OF CASE. I won't repeat myself again. If you're not smart enough to grasp such a simple concept, go suck that weenie down there.


    My reply..... But it’s you Jews that suck baby’s dicks not me buddy 


    You say ......You're next remark was dumb. Atheism is not a religion. Really? Investigate it further, you'll see the light.


    My reply ......This proves that you’re a Jewish dummy ......


    religion

    rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/

    noun

    1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."ideas about the relationship between science and religion"

    2 synonyms:

    3 faith, belief, divinity, worship, creed, teaching, doctrine, theology; More



    But then again you don’t know what religion means do you dummy ?



    You say .....Then you say there's a "good context for murdering babies" but why do you say this? Because you're lazy, you want to feel as if you're better than the Ein Sof, as if you know that the Torah is truly evil, what outlandish claims you espouse, what utter nonsense


    My reply .....I’m not lazy , the Torah is a vile book of nonsense and you’re the lazy one buddy as you no doubt have never read it 




    You say .....Are you stupid? Seriously, I'll ask it again just for added effect....


    My reply ..... No we have established you’re the village idiot here 


    You say .....ARE YOU RETARDED? SHOULD YOU BE IN A MENTAL INSTITUTION NOW? SHOULD YOUR MOMMY FEED YOU MILK AND COOKIES EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE LIKE MID-AGE, LET'S SAY?


    My reply .....Spoken like a “ true “ Christian now buddy if you want to mock me and my mother expect the same back , so tell me did your Jewish mother suck to feed you and you bone idle dad?


    You say .....I've heard that mirrors don't talk, luckily, in your case, they don't laugh either. 


    My reply .....Luck for you isn’t it because they would remark on your beak like nose and crack up laughing giving you another 7 years bad luck 


    You say .....Seriously! What a farce! The guy says he KNOW what the Book of Yehoshua's all about, says he's not taking things out of context, but then is unwilling to read the whole work for himself! 


    YOU'RE KIDDING ME, RIGHT?


    You took everything out of context, but hide behind the closet like a little trembling kid afraid of his daddy when you REFUSE, REFUSE to read the entire work to GET CORRECT CONTEXT.


    It's a good thing zombies eat brains, so you don't have to worry. .....


    My reply.....Block letters just make you look like an idiot ....wait apologies you don’t need any help there , you’re not the dumbest person on the planet but I bet you’re praying he doesn’t die 


    You say....You stupidly handed me all the cards, I just won the match. YOU CANNOT CLAIM TO KNOW WHAT A BOOK SAYS WHEN TAKING A VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT AND THEN REFUSING TO READ THE ENTIRE WORK.


    People like you are IDIOTS. 



    My reply .....Go run off and get your crayons , helper and “book “ and I will attempt to educate youn


    You say......People like you say that all Muslims are evil,


    My reply .... Never said that 


     You say ....or that the Talmud allows rabbis to suck the little dicks of 3 year old boys. Disgusting! 



    My reply ..... It’s does , I bet you do it too 


    You say ....like you got my ancestors killed


    My reply ....I had nothing to do with the holocaust you fool 



    You say ...., KILLED, because they THOUGHT a book, like the Talmud, said something it didn't when THEY, like you, REFUSED TO READ IT IN CONTEXT. 


    My reply ..... Take it up with the Germans pal 


    You say ....You're a dangerous human being, Josephus, according to your vibe of scholarship, all Muslims are terrorists because the Quran SUPPOSEDLY says so. 


    My reply .....Again I never said that isn’t it you Jews have the franchise on hate ?


    You say......Well, good luck preaching that hogwash.


    My reply ......Yes carry on lying like a typical Jew 


    You say.....And if you follow that crap, guess what you are?


    My reply .....But I don’t , you do as you’re a hate filled bigot 


  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @Judaism

    I don’t really care hat you believe in as your genetic idiocy is fairly amusing , why would you think I’m remotely interested in your babble about the holocaust or the ramblings of a Jewish rabbit 
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @with_all_humility


    You say .....Why are you stuck on the killing of women and children, as many have pointed out to you the people were not "innocent" in the eyes of the Lord? 


    My reply .....What collective crime were the women guilty of that deserved death ? 


    What collective crime were the children guilty off that deserved death ?



    You say .....No, it is not my solution, 


    My reply......So in your opinion there was a better solution ? 


    You say ....it is the means by which God dealt with sinful nations at the time of Moses.  I am not part of the solution, it is not my thoughts on the matter, I've given you the insight that the Bible has revealed unto us...Now we can accept that as God's truth or reject it and in doing so reject God as well.  I don't believe God ever said we had to like what his judgments were, however, to be in the good graces of God we have to accept them and recognize that they served a purpose in the scheme of redemption.   


    My reply .....Ah killing so killing women and kids serves a useful purpose ......Even ISIS have their limits 



    "I said ......A pretext (adj: pretextual) is an excuse to do something or say something that is not accurate. Pretexts may be based on a half-truth or developed in the context of a misleading fabrication. Pretexts have been used to conceal the true purpose or rationale behind actions and words."



    Your reply ....

    Yes, when you cherry-pick passages of scripture and don't consider the context of what is happening you make a false claim and promote a false doctrine.  That is exactly what you are doing.  No one here is saying you have to accept what God has done, in fact, you claim to be an atheist and therefore nobody expects you to accept God's actions.  However, don't pull verses out of context to promote your ideology.  I believe you to be smarter than that to resort to such tactics.



    My reply ...... Ok , tell me the “best” context for killing kids ?



    You say .....I'm not uncomfortable with what is recorded in the Bible, while I don't profess to be a scholar or even a subject matter expert on the Bible.  I have read it and studied it enough to know there was a purpose for everything that was recorded by the Holy Spirit.  As a person who claims to know so much about the Bible, you should know this as well.


    My reply ......But you said above it wouldn’t be your solution?




    You say .....I don't justify anything,


    My reply .....You do .....watch .....



    You said ...... again read the Bible and take into account all that has been revealed in the sacred text. Just as Judaism has told you, the people you are so concerned about were not innocent at all and that is what God ordered them to be dealt with.  Instead of trying to pass these women and children as innocent bystanders be honest and take into account the history of their actions. 


    My reply .......There you go justifying what you said you don’t 



    You say ......

    So is a judge immoral to sentence a person to be put to death as punishment for his/her crimes?


    My reply......Yes , we don’t do it in civilized nations 


    You say....


    Is the solder on the battlefield immoral for killing the enemy



    My reply......Yes , ask those relatives of ones slaughtered by various invading armies 


    You say......Am I immoral if I don't allow my daughter to date a person of questionable character?


    My reply .....Why not kill her like god did instead ? 


    You say.......Is a father immoral for not allowing their children to hang out with thugs?  


    My reply ......Read above 



    You say.....Is it immoral to tell you child homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle?


    My reply ......Stone them as it commands in the Bible maybe ? 


    Why do yous mostly accept them  in your congregation on Sunday ?


    You say ....Where do you draw the line on morality and what gives you the authority to do so?


    My reply..... Well I’m vastly superior morally to the tyrant you kneel and pray  too



    You say.....One the Bible does not teach or tell us to go and wipe out civilizations, two Stalin, Mao and Hitler should never be compared to or said to be that of diety.  


    My reply ......You’re right , apologies to Mao , Hitler and Stalin for the slur 




    You Say ..The OT law has passed, we are under a new convent with Christ.  The OT is there for us to a better understanding of the character of God.  The takeaway of God forbidding the inhabitants of a land to remain a life is the same as putting a little yeast in bread.  I'm sure you have heard the saying "a little leaven leaveneth the whole loaf".  It same for corrupt human behavior, amongst the innocent. 


    My reply .....You’re still justifying it 




    You  say ...... don't belittle people...the purpose of debate is to communicate...correct?  


    My reply .....I’m critiquing what I see as a deeply offensive , vile book , how does that belittle you ? No criticism allowed is that it ? 


    You say .....When you belittle those you are communicating with, barriers go up and effective communication ceases to happen.  Perhaps I was wrong, but I thought you to be of the caliber of person to be above such tactics.  


    My reply ......Read above , my opinion is formed by the very words  in your bible while you use the much loved go to defense as in “ they’re out of context “ please point out where the authors of the Bible said god instructed one to have  a panel of biblical experts available every time they read the Bible to explain it “ correctly “ ? 


    Please also supply the “ correct “ context for slaughtering children ? 



  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    @Joeseph,

    Man, I'd love to spend each minute of my life with you, but I've actually got a life to lead, so have fun debating people and losing each time, have fun calling names and saying hogwash. Just have fun here, and stay away from me. This will be my LAST post to you.

    Now, onto your arguments.....

    You will never cease to amaze me. I'm a "Christian," you say? Go back to school, little boy. I'm a Jew, an Orthodox Jew, I don't believe in Jesus, the Devil, or the notion that the Messiah already came but forgot to bring world peace with him. Get it straight, little boy.

    You say the Torah is a "vile book called sacred," prove it. Actually do so, without taking crap out of context, and then not even justifying it by stating you don't have time to read the whole book, because you certainly had the time to visit that anti-Semite site, did you? You're like the guy who what's to be married but won't put the time to start a relationship for a year and a half. Pathetic. 

    You then say something astoundingly stupid. Great job, stone brain. You say that I, we, the Jews, don't follow Torah because we don't follow 613 mitzvot, nor the the decalogue (10 commandments) but you're pee brain knows horse crap about it all. The decalogue is PART of the 613 mitzvot we're to do OUR BEST to follow. Furthermore, little boy, we CAN'T follow all 613 laws; some can only be done by the kohanim, some while we're in Eretz Yisrael, and others when we have the Beit HaMikdash, so suck a down there, dimwit. Your arguments are foolish and lack clarity. 

    Now, onto your next round of idiotic remarks. First off, let's touch on your remark on Hitler; anti-Semites are always the same, they deny the Shoah, or at least try to revise it. They say, as you do - which you're now apart of, mazel tov, idiot - that Hitler was Catholic. Why? Because they just can't stand it that he actually WASN'T Christian. They want to point at people of faith and say, "Look! Hitler was Christian! But there was never an atheist who was as rotten as that." Belloni. Stalin and Mao were atheists. Look at the wonders they did. And did you even bother to read my article which I put so much time into DEBUNKING the myth that Hitler was Catholic throughout his whole life? I don't just quote him, but also his close associates, men like Goebbels, Speer,  Bormann, and Heinrich Himmler. So you're just another idiot who believes whatever he finds on Facebook, and refuses - like reading the Torah in full - to read from the scholars on what Hitler's beliefs really were. Listen, little boy, a word of advice: it's better to let someone think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and prove it. If you want to prove you're right, what about actually DOING SOME WORK TO DEBUNK MY CLAIMS rather than say he was just Catholic. You wrote half a sentence, I wrote around 10 pages or something. I think we all know who's the loser here, but I guess you just proved that even G-d makes mistakes sometimes.

    ...You!

    You thrive on making people mad and wasting their time, don't you? We all prove, with evidence, that HaShem ISN'T evil, and that Hitler WASN'T Catholic, but you just keep on going and going, saying otherwise. No wonder you have no friends, little boy. 

    Moving on.....

    You then state something insane. That you, unlike me, don't follow societal norms, customs, or culture. That you don't look to a "book" for laws. Oh well, do you live in the US? I know the Constitution isn't technically a "book," but should we all just decide not to follow its laws? If so, do you have slaves? Do you have sex with all your wives? Do you beat your children, or not pay your taxes? We all follow "laws," retard, it just depends on how many you choose to follow, like adding biblical law to it.

    ...You then state that there doesn't have to be a G-d, an Ein Sof, to run the world, to make sure galaxies don't collide, or that we don't destroy ourselves. Idiot. Someone's doing it, and it's as heck not you.

    You then ask me who created G-d? Well, if G-d was in need of creation pertaining to itself, it can't be G-d. My answer? No one created G-d. You ask me to prove it, already have. Are you that dumb? No one could be THAT dumb, right? I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.

    In fact, I proved to you all about Rashi, and how we can only know the Written Torah through the Oral one. But you say I'm boring. Well, with your low IQ, I wouldn't expect anything else from your mouth! You then say we Jews suck dicks of little boys during their Brit Milah - you don't even know the significance of that - we do it to stop the bleeding, retard. Not because of what your dirty mind is telling you. Why do we do it? It's a brit. Well, what is a brit? It's an oath to HaShem. A promise. A covenant. But the original Hebrew reads as an oath. Why did the Goyim die from the Mabul? Because they broke the brit. If the definition of "religion" is "faith, belief, divinity, worship, creed, teaching, doctrine, theology," than that's exactly what you are! But you follow the supernatural voices - and vices - of men like Chris Hitchens. 

    .....It's obvious that your mind is on vacation, as your mouth is working overtime.

    You say I haven't read the whole Torah - gosh, what a joke this guy - I READ IT IN HEBREW! Not some goofy translation with an agenda, buddy. Get real here or get lost.

    You then stigmatize me, saying I have a "beak nose," excuse me, but do you know me? Do you know what I look like? Old Nazi propaganda, guess I can't expect anything worse. I'd slap you, but that would be animal abuse.

    You then say that the Talmud allows pedophile. FUC**** IDIOT HERE WHO CAN'T READ A WORD OF HEBREW! Talmud Bavli, as if it concerns itself throughout all its mighty tractates on condoning such evil. Again, I've read it, most of it, you've just read an isolated verse OUT OF CONTEXT on your stupid anti-Semite site which makes you FEEL good and knowledgeable. Hogwash 101 here. Feel good about yourself, because you don't want to cross swords with a Jew who knows Talmud. You'll be butchered. So don't even bother quoting a passage.

    Lastly, Joeseph says: "I don’t really care that [sic] you believe in... your genetic idiocy is fairly amusing , why would you think I’m remotely interested in your babble about the holocaust or the ramblings of a Jewish rabbit."

    Good. Because the last time I saw something like you, I flushed it. Don't learn anything, think the Shoah never happened. I don't care. Who on earth gives a sh** about what you think? Your mommy? Even she don't give two dimes for it.

    Again, there is no vaccine to cure your awesome stupidity, but do us all a favor please, wipe your mouth, there's still a tiny bit of bullcrap around your lips. Also, while you're at it, will you roll your eyes for me, you might save us some more headaches by finding a brain back there.

    P.S., this is my last post to you, I'd rather NOT waste my time with an insulating anti-Semite who has no respect but for himself, no wonder your mommy was the only person who ever loved you. I mean, I don't know what makes you so stupid, but it really works. 

    HOMEWORK: also, watch the film I posted above, try and debunk it, that's the only way I'd ever lose faith in HaShem, but no, you won't. To be expected. Comes with the territory.
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    Joeseph and all,

    But really, what mindless bull! Hogwash 101! This little atheist here, who doesn't know, let alone understand, the difference between halacha and aggadah, why's there two Tamluds, or what Brisker is, expects me to drop Judaism on a whim for a belief in nothing? 

    WHAT A COMPLETE J O K E !

    Go sleep on cow manure, you dimwitted Goy! We Jews aren't creationists, retard! Have you ever read Sefer HaTemunah? Of course not! Do you know that Yitzchak DeMin Acco calculated the universe to be 15 billion years old in the 13th century based off the Zohar and Tehillim 90? NO! We're really to fall for a teenage mute who's only response to great mind is, "uh'huh. . . "? Go "uh-huh" yourself, birdbrain!

    The guy doesn't know the difference between Mishneh Torah and the Baalei Tosafot! He wouldn't know whether or not to make a panim chadashos at a Sheva Brachos celebration look like a korban olah! Better yet, he'd spray barbecue sauce all over it!

    MORON 101 here! 

    Stupid Goy here 101! 

    Watch my film, dimwit, than we'll see how long you stay an atheist, retard.
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @Judaism

    Why you think I’m remotely interested in your  hate filled hate rant and bigotry is beyond me , you’re obsessed with Hitler , the holocaust and playing the victim card on account of  your “ pity poor me “ whining Jew act , If grow up to half the man your mother was well that would be a start .

    Run off now as I don’t have the time or the crayons to explain all  this on account of your pin headed stupidity .........

    When your mum looked at you she must have felt terrible as she neglected to take the option of swallowing 
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @Judaism ;

    Wow , maybe you need to work it off buddy ......work will set you free after all .......


    It’s been a pleasure to finally meet the poster child for the pro-choice movement.


    Your birth certificate is an apology letter from the condom factory.


  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    @Joeseph

    Whatever Nazi. Don't bother then. Goodbye. Wish you luck in learning more hogwash and losing brain cells as you watch more porn. 

    I have no more reason to constantly insult you. Let's stop all this now, okay? I'll only write to the people on this threat who are curious to watch the film and give their thoughts. You're get tired in your negative club anyway.
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    Meant thread*
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    Birth certificate! You don't know what a Sefer Yuchsin is! Okay, seriously, let's end the communication, its a waste of time, no one will ever be convinced anyway. If you want to disprove me, the last thing I'll deal with is that film above. Debunk it or go home. 

    Here's the link again, only have to watch the first 60 minutes easy enough? It's not stopping cancer, right? I'm not asking you to make a V2, just try and debunk some facts about Judaism and scientific accuracy centuries ago, that's it. Or are you not man enough? Time will only tell.



    Good luck.
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    What? I posted an argument and it went away? Whatever. Okay, here we go again. Last time. Debunk the video, only have to watch the first 60 minutes, that's all, I'm not asking you to make a V2 here. 

    Here's the film. Debunk it. Then we're done.... for good... if you want it.



    Birth certificate! Good one. Not true, though. I can tell you've never heard of a Sefer Yuchsin. My rabbi's related to King David, we've got the facts. Do you? 
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    "It’s been a pleasure to finally meet the poster child for the pro-choice movement."

    Oh, another Trump supporter here, an anti-Marxist fool.
  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    Joeseph

    Did you get my last two posts?
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @Judaism

    Divine Torah , how hilarious a filthy vile book you obviously never read .......



    God intentionally killed every man, woman, and child on the planet except for eight people in the great flood.  (Genesis 7:23)

    God commands Hagar go back into slavery and bear children for her master though she does not want to.  (Genesis 16:7-9)

    God burns down a whole city (women and children included) simply because they were supposedly homosexual.  (Genesis 19:23-25)

    Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that the Lord slew him.  How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn’t give us this bit of information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord.  (Genesis 38:7)

    God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister in law.  (Genesis 38:10)

    Exodus 12:29  God repeatedly tells Moses exactly what calamity he will next visit upon the Egyptians if the Pharaoh does not allow the Israelites to be set free from slavery.  Then he tells Moses (also repeatedly) that he will harden Pharaoh’s heart, so that he will refuse to allow the Israelites to go, thus bringing a calamity upon his own people, as well as showing him the awesome power of the Israelites’ Lord.  This occurs over and over, bringing calamity upon calamity upon the Egyptian people.  What is troubling about this verse is that when god “hardens the pharaoh’s heart” he is interfering with the Pharaoh’s free will and ultimately bringing punishment on the Egyptians for something they are not responsible for.  As a final punishment god decides to kill all the first born of Egypt.  The lord reduced himself to murdering innocent kids when he could have simply freed the Israelites himself with his “omnipotent” power.

    God punishes children for the sins of their fathers, unto the third and fourth generations.  Punishing a child for the sins of their ancestors is not very just. (Exodus 20:5 & 34:7)

    God endorses slavery. He even set up laws as to how slavery was to be carried out, and goes as far as Okaying beating them.  (Exodus 21:2-6)

    God sanctioned the selling of ones daughter.  How can any being tell another to literally sell their child into slavery?  Disgusting!  (Exodus 21:7)

    God orders the death of witches, sorceresses and anyone who practices magic.  Sadly enough, this verse was justification for the Inquisition.  (Exodus 22:18)

    God ordered to be killed, 3,000 Israelites for no greater crime than worshiping a golden calf.  I don’t know about you but death is a pretty harsh punishment.  (Exodus 32:27)

    God commands death for cursing out ones parents and death for adultery.  Gee, with these types of laws the population should be almost nil by now.  (Leviticus 20:9-10)

    Once again god is a homophobe, or at the very least, a bigot.  (Leviticus 20:13)

    Handicapped people must not approach the altar.  (Leviticus 21:16-23)

    And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shill ye eat. (Leviticus 26:30)

    God ordered and allowed human sacrifices.  (Leviticus 27:28-29)

    God buries alive Korah and his family.  (Numbers 16:27)

    God killed 250 Levite princes who disagreed with Moses’ leadership. He was so bloodthirsty that he wanted to slay more until he was talked out of it.  Later he put a plague upon 14,700 Jews who thought there was something wrong in killing 250 princes.  (Numbers 16:35)

    God utterly destroyed the Canaanites at Hormah as a favor to the Jews.  (Numbers 21:1-3)

    God abetted Moses in utterly destroying the Amorites at Heshbon including the men, the women, and the little ones. (Numbers 21:27-35)

    God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people including children and women.  To top it off he commands that the virgins be saved for later raping by Moses’ soldiers.  (Numbers 31:17-18)

    God ordered Moses’ army to utterly destroy 60 cities, killing all the women and children within!  (Deuteronomy 3:3-7)

    God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of seven nations.  He even says to show no mercy unto them.  (Deuteronomy 7:12)

    God orders that we kill everything that breathes in the cities that he gives us for an inheritance.  (Deuteronomy 20:16)

    A bastard can’t attend church “even to his tenth generation.” As if denying an innocent child rights to worship isn’t cruel. (Deuteronomy 23:2)

  • JudaismJudaism 175 Pts
    Oh, now I see the funny side! I posted that video twice, thinking the site messed up, ha!
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @Judaism

    How did you survive infancy?
  • JoesephJoeseph 469 Pts
    @Judaism

    Yes , I got your garbage thank you 
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