Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?

mickyg

you said>You are a free moral agent, you can choose to live your life however you see fit.

So why did god murder the first born of egypt?


@with_all_humility

TKDB

@mickyg

"I don't think humans would murder thousands of one day old babies as god did."

@mickyg ;

Did you see the below response to your question?

Did you personally interview God, and ask him, what he thought about your individual opinion?
 
Maybe you could ask him, how he might view the plethora of conversations in regards to the abortion conversation in general? 

@Zombieguy1987 Do you have anything to add? 

mickyg

The bible gives instructions for an abortion.
Now why did god murder the first born of egypt?

@TKDB

TKDB

@mickyg

"The bible gives instructions for an abortion."

Prove it? Where's your legitimate evidence?
From what chapter, and from what page does the Bible provide instructions for an abortion? 

mickyg

numbers...priest does abortion....... 5:19-22

5:19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse

:20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:

5:21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;

5:22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 

This is the part that fooled me. I get the idea that if the woman has been unfaithful, then the magic bitter water will do something awful to her. But I wasn't sure just what. What does it mean to have your belly swell and your thigh rot? But then I saw the footnote in the NIV that said it meant this: "cause you to be barren and have a miscarrying womb."@TKDB

TKDB

@mickyg

Who are you Judging with your individual rhetoric, God, or the current day and age conversations, in regards to Abortion in general? 

What is your individual agenda about? 

The Biblical formation I read, didnt look clinical at all, as far as "Instructions" for an abortion goes? 

What is your agenda about? 

Are you trying to call out God, in regards to abortion in general?

Or are you trying to call out Abortion itself, in regards to abortion in general? 

TKDB

@mickyg

"I don't think humans would murder thousands of one day old babies as god did."

Did you personally interview God, and ask him, what he thought about your individual opinion? 

Maybe you could ask him, how he might view the plethora of conversations in regards to the abortion conversation in general?

mickyg

i am trying to call out christians for lying about the bible.@TKDB

mickyg

COULD YOU THINK OF ONE WAY GOD DID NOT NEED to murder the first born of egypt?
Maybe he could have allowed free will for the pharaoh.
@TKDB

Zombieguy1987

mickyg said:

i am trying to call out christians for lying about the bible.@TKDB

This is a troll, who won't argue your points. He'll come up with irrelevant questions as a means to waste your time

TKDB

@Zombieguy1987

Do you have anything to add to the debate, other than directing negative commentary towards me, rather than constructively engaging in the conversation? 

"This is a troll, who won't argue your points. He'll come up with irrelevant questions as a means to waste your time"

TKDB

@mickyg

"i am trying to call out christians for lying about the bible."


"COULD YOU THINK OF ONE WAY GOD DID NOT NEED to murder the first born of egypt?
Maybe he could have allowed free will for the pharaoh."

You're dodging the questions, with your bias rhetoric.

Asking you again:

Who are you Judging with your individual rhetoric, God, or the current day and age conversations, in regards to Abortion in general? 

What is your individual agenda about? 

The Biblical formation I read, didnt look clinical at all, as far as "Instructions" for an abortion goes? 

What is your agenda about? 

Are you trying to call out God, in regards to abortion in general?

Or are you trying to call out Abortion itself, in regards to abortion in general? 

Why call Christians out, via the internet?

Why not go take to the streets, and then protest Christians that way?

TKDB

@mickyg

"Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?"

If you're going to apparently judge God, and ask why Christians defend his supposed immorality:

Aren't you going to ask in the same light of your question, if abortion could possibly be viewed as immoral, and if abortion could be defended in an equal, and fair sense of your originally posed question? 

I pose the above question, because of this statement from you:

"COULD YOU THINK OF ONE WAY GOD DID NOT NEED to murder the first born of egypt?"

Being that I have seen individuals protesting abortion in general, via protesters taking to the streets to protest abortion.

But I've yet to see any anti religious individual, taking to the streets to protest Christians, and asking them in person, why do you Christian individuals, defend the immortality of the Christian God, as depicted in the Bible? 

And ask them as well, why they are lying, according to your view of them? 

mickyg

THE GOSPELS are anonymous.christians have a claim that they cannot logically display.FIRST THEY DON'T APPEAR IN HISTORY UNTIL 160AD....HOW COME after 2000 years of doubt they don't have a plainly written articulate explanation for who the gospel writers are....they just use the old smoke and mirrors..@Zombieguy1987

mickyg

THEY LIE because they are embarrassed.Most have never questioned or heard others question their .@TKDB @TKDB

mickyg

you said>>>>Who are you Judging with your individual rhetoric, God, or the current day and age conversations, in regards to Abortion in general

WELL FIRST ...I AM REAL....

Which god is your god?Christians have three....jews one..muslims one...muslims believe in jesus who never existed...I can't disprove all gods but disproving christianity is easy...and then islam topples as well...

@TKDB

TKDB

@mickyg

"THE GOSPELS are anonymous.christians have a claim that they cannot logically display.FIRST THEY DON'T APPEAR IN HISTORY UNTIL 160AD....HOW COME after 2000 years of doubt they don't have a plainly written articulate explanation for who the gospel writers are....they just use the old smoke and mirrors.."


"THEY LIE because they are embarrassed.Most have never questioned or heard others question their."


you said>>>>Who are you Judging with your individual rhetoric, God, or the current day and age conversations, in regards to Abortion in general

"WELL FIRST ...I AM REAL....

Which god is your god?Christians have three....jews one..muslims one...muslims believe in jesus who never existed...I can't disprove all gods but disproving christianity is easy...and then islam topples as well..."

Go to any Church, and ask the minister, the preacher, the pastor, or the priest, and face any of them with your questions?

What are you waiting for?

You're full of questions, and you're boldly relying on the internet to get your questions answered? 

Do you have an answer for the below?

Aren't you going to ask in the same light of your question, if abortion could possibly be viewed as immoral, and if abortion could be defended in an equal, and fair sense of your originally posed question? 

I pose the above question, because of this statement from you:

"COULD YOU THINK OF ONE WAY GOD DID NOT NEED to murder the first born of egypt?"

Being that I have seen individuals protesting abortion in general, via protesters taking to the streets to protest abortion.

But I've yet to see any anti religious individual, taking to the streets to protest Christians, and asking them in person, why do you Christian individuals, defend the immortality of the Christian God, as depicted in the Bible? 

And ask them as well, why they are lying, according to your view of them? 

mickyg

PROTEST CHRISTIANS?
CHRISTIANS WOULD SHOOT ME.
Christianity would never have survived if not for the use of deadly force.
Why are american christians so AFRAID of islam?
Because they have such a weak message that they know christian  logic or christian love are nonexistent.

@TKDB

mickyg

WHY DO i need to go to a church to question christianity?
You are right here .Are you afraid of me?
YOUR priest would be as well.



@TKDB

TKDB

@mickyg

"PROTEST CHRISTIANS?
CHRISTIANS WOULD SHOOT ME."

You sure seem judgemental?

And against Christians in general, it would seem as well? 

People protest all sorts of issues, I've seen plenty of protesing done in Washington D.C.

I've seen some of the students, who survived a mass shooters, gun violence brutality, and listened to them protesting gun violence brutality.

And they were peacefully protesting.

I've seen people protesting abortion, and they also were peacefully protesting.

And yet, you want to apparently label Christians as maybe violent, by saying that Christians would shoot you? 

I feel sad, for how your mindset, maybe dictates, the very words that you use to judge Christians with?

 "WHY DO i need to go to a church to question christianity?"

"You are right here .Are you afraid of me?
YOUR priest would be as well."

Because the answers your seeking, are maybe bigger, than your individual mindset is maybe willing to let you accept?

I'm not afraid of you, I feel sadness for you.

And no religious individual that I know of, would be fearful of you either. 

mickyg

YES  ITS all bigger than me.

CHRISTIANITY has a long history of doing evil things.....starting in 310ad until 1945ad christians have been murdering ..robbing..persecuting jews...to appease world history the christian dominated UN voted to give arab land to the jews...The Jews are quiet about this but the arabs are not happy... .

@TKDB @TKDB

Evidence

mickyg said:

YES  ITS all bigger than me.

CHRISTIANITY has a long history of doing evil things.....starting in 310ad until 1945ad christians have been murdering ..robbing..persecuting jews...to appease world history the christian dominated UN voted to give arab land to the jews...The Jews are quiet about this but the arabs are not happy... .

TKDB

@mickyg ;
The confusion, which Satan created is that both you and @TKDB (as well as all Christians) think that the Bible is somehow connected to the RCC / Constantine mock-god created "Christian Religion", well it's not.
Rome under Constantine's rule took both the New and the Old Testament writings, along with the derogatory/mock word "Christian" and created the Christian Religion, and took their own gods and made it as if it was from the Bible.

Christians went with Constantine's sword as their cross, and forced their pagan religion on the world. Those who refused the Christian gods were tortured, excommunicated from society, and murdered.

Over the years Christians learned to make the Bible a better fitting sheepskin to cover the real truth behind Christianity. Look, the evidence is in plain sight who Christians really worship:

See that torch in the C as in Christian?

Now look who exactly that represents?

Baphomet 


CBN Israel

CBN Israel


The Filipino Channel Logo


 It rules over the whole World, and most Christians don't even know it. But the Christian Leaders the Pope, Ministers, Pastors sure do!

TKDB

@Evidence

"The confusion, which Satan created is that both you and @TKDB (as well as all Christians) think that the Bible is somehow connected to the RCC / Constantine mock-god created "Christian Religion", well it's not."

There is no confusion. See my below counter arguments.

@mickyg

"CHRISTIANITY has a long history of doing evil things...."

Humanity, in general has a long history of doing evil things.

Murder, rape, sexual assault, kids introducing kids to illegal drugs, and adults introducing kids to illegal drugs as well.

I wonder how many drug users, maybe introduced other drug users to Opioids?

Now there's an ongoing epidemic, of Opioid overdoses?

Now, If those same illegal drug users hadn't, or weren't introducing other drug user's, to Opioids, what are the chances, that the Opioid epidemic, wouldn't be where it has been for some time now? 

Domestic abuse, and gun violence brutality, where a family member went home, and murdered their entire family.

The amount of innocent people killed by their alcohol abusing drunk drivers, who placed themselves above the rest of society, by choosing to leave wherever, and tragically try to drive home, and be drunk at the same time?

The number of recreational weed addicts, who are buying their weed, and then buying urinalysis tests, and weed detox kits, just to make sure that they don't give, a positive urinalysis test, to keep from getting fired from their careers?

The number of illegal aliens, or immigrants, who have murdered, and raped, and stolen from innocent people?

I asked you about abortion before, some in a sense view abortion itself as murder?

Do you have a counter argument, for some humans doing away with an unborn fetus via abortion?

Or again, just judge "God," or while mentioning the "Devil" at ones own leisure, and leave humanity alone, because some maybe have an apparent bias towards God? 

Or do you maybe view the evil histories of what humans have done against the rest humanity, as a non conversation to debate over?

Like murder, rape, abortion, illegal drug use, the illegal alien, or immigrants Border issue, the drunk driver's having killed people, and kids introducing kids to weed, or the adults introducing kids to weed? 

I wish, that some would be fair and equal to themselves, and to the humanity around them, and refrain from blaming God, or placing some side blame on the Devil, to bookend humanity in the middle of that verbalized human, and man made mess.

Some of humans, that are a part of humanity overall, is responsible for the evil acts that some want to judge God for?

Blaming God, for what some of humanity has done against the rest of humanity, since the first human picked up a stick, and killed another human with it?

Man has been murdering man, long before God, or the Devil, came along and made them a part of his conscious conversations.

MayCaesar

@TKDB

The difference is, there were evil things done in the name of Christianity. When a person drives a car while drunk and hits someone, they do not do it in the name of drunkenness, they do it because of carelessness. On the other hand, when a person takes a sword and marches for weeks with the purpose of slaughtering everyone in what the Christian church has declared to be "holy land", then it is a very purposeful action.

Drunk driving causes accidents, but people do not drive drunk with the goal of causing accidents. Christianity causes deaths, and many people in history have acted as prescribed by Christianity with the goal of causing them.

There is a difference between misguided actions of one individual, and misguided actions of large collectives as a consequence of totalitarian ideologies.

TKDB

@MayCaesar

"There is a difference between misguided actions of one individual, and misguided actions of large collectives as a consequence of totalitarian ideologies."

You're entitled to your opinion, and you get to live with it.

Thankfully the rest of humanity doesn't have to live with your individual mindset. 

MayCaesar

@TKDB

That is not my opinion; it is a fact. There were no drunk driving crusades, but there certainly were Christian ones. There were no illegal immigrant conquests, but there were quite a few religious ones.

What mindset the rest of humanity has is its business, but what facts are is set in stone, regardless of any mindset anyone might have.

TKDB

@MayCaesar

Again, you're entitled to your individual opinion.

"That is not my opinion; it is a fact. There were no drunk driving crusades, but there certainly were Christian ones. There were no illegal immigrant conquests, but there were quite a few religious ones."

How do you know, were you alive during the Crusades?

If you weren't, then your opinion is all that MayCaesar has.

Zombieguy1987

TKDB said:

@MayCaesar

"There is a difference between misguided actions of one individual, and misguided actions of large collectives as a consequence of totalitarian ideologies."

You're entitled to your opinion, and you get to live with it.

Thankfully the rest of humanity doesn't have to live with your individual mindset. 

He wasn't giving his opinion. It's a fact that when people drink, they're just careless, ignoring the consequences of their actions.

But say the Crusades? It was intentional, and the people who planned knew what would happen

TKDB

@Zombieguy1987

@MayCaesar


"But say the Crusades? It was intentional, and the people who planned knew what would happen."

The modern day Crusades of the modern day criminals, and offenders?

But say some of humanity and their crimes?
They are randomly intentional, and the criminals and the offenders who planned knew what would happen?

Like murder, abortion, rape, illegal drug use, drug trafficking, hum trafficking, killing innocent people via drunk driving, killing innocent people drive by shootings, mass shootings, robberies, muggings, the domestic abuse, and violence shootings, the kidnappenings, abductions, amber alerts, and the kids teaching kids how to use drugs, and the adults teaching kids how to use drugs as well?

TKDB

@Zombieguy1987

"He wasn't giving his opinion."
"It's a fact that when people drink, they're just careless, ignoring the consequences of their actions."

@MayCaesar

"What mindset the rest of humanity has is its business, but what facts are is set in stone, regardless of any mindset anyone might have."


So when it comes to the Crusades of the modern day criminals, and offenders, it's a fact, than when these humans commit their various crimes, they're just careless, and are ignoring the consequences of their illegal actions?

Because those criminals or offenders, only care about themselves, and their individually driven Crusades, that individually suits themselves just fine? 

What say you @Zombieguy1987, @MayCaesar?

MayCaesar

@TKDB

I am not sure if you are being serious. Crusades were organised campaigns of mass murder and pillage that ravaged lands and exterminated the population. 

One drunk driver may manage to kill a few people, but to raze thousands cities? That seems a bit of a stretch.

And regardless of the scope of the consequences, the fact is that individual independent actions do not inspire millions of followers to do the same, while actions in the name of religion do and have throughout the history.

Raul_McCai

Why do they defend?  They can not so they don't try.  At least the literate educated one any way.

Look  The God of the Christians  is above any  trivial human concept of morality.  Human morality  really  is all about little more than  facilitating social order.  So we come up with these short cuts that allow us to skip over all the  analysis of circumstances and just get  right to  the solution That a thing  is Morally right or Wrong. 

Little Julie next door  really was kind of hot in her halloween costume.

So I wanted to abduct her rape her  eventually kill her and of course make pulled kiddie  sandwiches from her on the BBQ and invite the neighborhood over. 

So do I engage in a lengthily analysis of deciding what her parents might think might they discover her fate and how  they might respond  upon learning that the delisious sandwitch was little julie's thighs?

Do I spend time evaluating her father's social network and their propensity for violence? Are they armed?

Yadda yadda 

Or do I just cut to the chase & tell myself that the very thought is disgusting and wrong?

Morals.

Short cuts to facilitate social order. 

Gods don't have such problems. 

Gods 

GOD (really)  doesn't have peers. What I think is right and wrong would be entirely irrelevant to a GOD.

So I submit that the very question about defending presupposes a status that no human will ever achieve.

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TKDB

@MayCaesar ;

"I am not sure if you are being serious. Crusades were organised campaigns of mass murder and pillage that ravaged lands and exterminated the population."

"The Crusades were a series of religious wars sanctioned by the Latin Church in the medieval period. The most commonly known Crusades are the campaigns in the Eastern Mediterranean aimed at recovering the Holy Land from Muslim rule, but the term "Crusades" is also applied to other church-sanctioned campaigns."

I call the murders committed by the criminals, and the offenders, against their innocent victims, and those victims families, as an overall, self sanctioned campaign, against society itself, via those same criminals, and offenders, having killed innocent people for decades now?
I view those crimes as a Crusade, against society itself.

I call the rapes committed by the criminals, and the offenders, against their innocent victims, and those victims families, as another type of a self sanctioned Crusade, against, society overall again.

You have humans committing abortions, and some view abortion as murder?
And how many fetuses are done away with each year, via abortion? 

Couldn't an individual look at that sad situation, and maybe in a sense look at that happening, as another probable Crusade, against society overall again? 

So many want to judge God, and this or that religion, for what some of humans do against the rest of society? 

Why not place those blames, where they rightly belong, within the confines of those criminal, and or offenders human hands, and within the very same shoes that the criminal, or the offender is wearing?

Blaming God, or any religion for what some human beings does against the rest of humanity... Show me in what Courtroom, that blaming God, or any religion, would hold any sort of logical water, in a U.S. Courtroom of law? 

Sand

God can do whatever he wants to do when he owns it. Just like you do whatever you want to do with the things you own. Who are you to judge God? I do not come over your house and say, "hey, you can't do that".

Sand

There is no need to defend anything in the Bible. It is what it is. Either you do what it says and get life, or you don't. There is one thing that is consistent in everyone's life. It is death. You will die. The Bible offers a way to survive. You either follow it or not. If you follow it, you will die, with a prospect of being brought back to life. If you don't follow it. There is nothing you can do to overcome death.

mickyg

yes  the story of christian god is a god who does what he wants...

why is it that christians lie about free will when god does what he wants?
@Sand

Sand

Your question is an oxymoron.

If christians lie in saying they do have free will and they don't, then the fact they are lying is proving they have free will, thus proving their situation true.

If christians lie in saying they don't have free will and they do, then the fact that they are lying is proving they have free will, thus proving their situation true.

Your question needs to be revised.

mickyg

look .
everyone has free will because there is no god.

the bible says we are ...chosen..predertmined to follow jesus.

god interferes all the time
why did god murder the first born of egypt?
@Sand

MayCaesar

@TKDB

And who organises these crusades? What is that central organisation that recruits millions people to drunk-drive? I have not heard of such.
I have heard of the Medieval church, however. Its body count is pretty staggering, and that is talking only about the results of its foreign campaigns; it killed off hundreds millions people on its own territory throughout the centuries, through both direct and indirect means.

You can have any moral stance you like, but history shows that religion leads to staggering local and global tragedies, while the individual crimes you like to talk about merely affect specific individuals and do not ravage societies.

TKDB

@MayCaesar

Why are you judging God, and religion?

Is it that hard to judge a rapist, a murderer, or a person performing an abortion, with the same light of judgment, that you're judging, God, and religion with?

Why the difference?

Abortion, I believe kills a million fetuses a year? Are you maybe suggesting that abortion, isn't ravaging society as a whole? 

Or the thousands of rapes, a year, isn't ravaging society as a whole? 

Or the thousands of murders, a year, isn't ravaging society, as a whole? 

I don't know if the victims, or the victims families, would maybe agree, with your individual anti religious stance? 

Sand

The rules for God are not the same for man.

Man is a conduit for life, the life force comes from God.

God also warned Pharoah on multiple occasions, gave him time to change his ways.

In fact Pharoah refused to acknowledge that God existed.

This experience is a good example for people who claim God does not exist, or he cares nothing for me.

God gave the life of the first born.

It was his to give and his to take away.

@mickyg

mickyg

YES...YOU SOUND stupider every time you post me.The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "Catholic Church" is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna@Evidence@Sand

Evidence

MayCaesar said:

@TKDB

And who organises these crusades? What is that central organisation that recruits millions people to drunk-drive? I have not heard of such.
I have heard of the Medieval church, however. Its body count is pretty staggering, and that is talking only about the results of its foreign campaigns; it killed off hundreds millions people on its own territory throughout the centuries, through both direct and indirect means.

You can have any moral stance you like, but history shows that religion leads to staggering local and global tragedies, while the individual crimes you like to talk about merely affect specific individuals and do not ravage societies.

@MayCaesar, @TKDB
I agree!
This is why I say: Come back to following "the Way, the Truth and the Life" aka Jesus Christ, and not war mongering, bloody, murdering, child molesting, nun-raping, idol worshiping many gods Christian Religion.

mickyg

....name one eyewitness of jesus@Evidence

TKDB

@mickyg

Why are you chasing Jesus, with your electronic devices?

mickyg

.The gospels don't appear in history until 160AD..the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH admits they are anonymous..there were zero eyewitness accounts of jesus...

..THE CATHOLICS were the ONLY christians from near the start.until 1520...you HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE JESUS EXISTED....NOT ONE EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT...PAUL THE APOSTLE DOES NOT MENTION THE GOSPELS.... @TKDB

TKDB

@mickyg

And a murderer, a rapist, a mass shooter, a drunk driver, a drug addict, and a host of other career criminals, and offenders, need their defense attorneys, to speak to a Judge on their behalf, in a Court of Law, when their committed crimes become public records, don't they? 

Are you going to keep judging God, when the above humans, day in and day out, for weeks, months, and for years now, continue to judge, and treat the rest of the publics safety like their own personal toilet paper, via their committed crimes? 

The murders, rapes, mass shooters, drunk driver's, and the drug addicts, you're just going to remain silent, over their common place abuses of the public safety, in general? 

mickyg

NAME an eyewitness of jesus@TKDB

mickyg

if a criminal is caught do you execute or rehabilitate?@TKDB

TKDB

@mickyg

What did Jesus do, to make you hound him like you are?