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Jesus is Identified as Yahweh in the Bible

Debate Information

Position: For
What I am saying: That Jesus is identified as Yahweh 
What I am not saying: That Jesus is The Father or the Holy Spirit; That the Father and the Holy Spirit are not God, or are lesser gods
What this debate is: Arguments for and against Jesus being identified as Yahweh
What this debate is not: Arguments about the Trinity (maybe next)

Preferred Order(but feel free to deviate save the R3 guidelines)
  • R1-Make your argument for your position and refute my position
  • R2- My response to your claim and refutation/ Your response to my refutation.
  • R3- Closing arguments (no new arguments)


My claim is that based on the reading of John 12:41 and its surrounding context, in conjunction with the verse quoted from Isaiah 6:10, one must come to the conclusion that the Jesus is identified as Yahweh. 
  • v 36 "When Jesus had said these things..."
  • v 37 "...he had done many signs...did not believe him..."
  • v 38 The non-belief towards Jesus fulfilled this passage in Isaiah.
  • v 39-40 The argument continues extending to the quoting of Isaiah 6:10
  • v 41 Isaiah said these things because he saw His glory and spoke of Him
  • v 42 ...authorities believed in Him, but for fear of the Pharisees did not confess it...
It is clear that the continuous subject of the entirety of the passage is Jesus. If it is argued that the subject did change from Jesus to the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 (John 12:38 quotation), then to Yahweh on the throne in Isaiah 6:10 (John 12:40 quotation; Yahweh is identified as the One in view in Isaiah 6:3) and back to Jesus, I posit that this only strengthens my claim, as there is no attempt made to disambiguate the free-flowing nature of the text between pronouns he/him and their connection to Yahweh, which any orthodox Jew would be most careful to do if there was distinction to be made. Beyond this, it is clear from John 1:18 that "no one has ever seen the Father, but the unique God who is most intimate with the Father, He has made Him known". From this, we can know that the God and Yahweh who is seen by many in the Old Testament is the Son. His name is Yahweh according to Isaiah 6:3, and this Yahweh is made synonymous in identification with Jesus in John 12:41. If you were to ask Isaiah who he saw on the throne high and lifted up, he would unequivocally answer "Yahweh". If You ask John who Isaiah saw, he would answer just as surely "Jesus". This interpretation has been supported throughout history in the Orthodox understanding of Christianity, but one notable, early-mid 2nd century attestation by a Greek Philosopher Aristides, when writing to Emporer  Hadrian reads, "The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew, virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh..."(1)

I look forward to the debate!

(1) http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/aristides-kay.html



Debra AI Prediction

Tie
Predicted
50%
Likely
50%
Unlikely

Details +




Debate Type: Traditional Debate



Voting Format: Moderate Voting

Opponent:

Rounds: 3

Time Per Round: 12 Hours Per Round


Voting Period: 24 Hours


Status: Not Accepted (Post Argument To Accept The Debate)

Forfeited



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    Arguments


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