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Does personhhood begin when the fetus has brainwaves?
in Politics

By YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 191 Pts
This is when I think the fetus is a complete sentient baby. I will list my reasons. Legally, a person has died when they no longer have brainwaves. This is how you tell if someone is alive or dead. Scientifically, this is when the fetus has all it's parts, and ius sentient. This is when the fetus becomes a baby that can feel pain. The way the Trump administration is targeting a woman or girl's right to her own body ius retarded. First, they came for the birth control which prevents abortions, then said women can't terminate a pregnancy. I read a story of a 12 year old rape victim who was called a murderer for seeking an abortion. If you ever wondered if rape culture exists, that is it. Little girls do not have to have a baby. No one has the right to my body unl;ess I consent. One person being forced to be pregnant without consent is rape. I love children, but if you think a fertilized egg is a baby, you are retarded. To retard is to slow or delay growth or progress, and that is exactly what antis are doing. Women have the right to choose what to do with thir bodies, and whether to have baby or not.
  1. Does personhood begin with fetal brainwaves?

    3 votes
    1. Yes.
      33.33%
    2. No.
      66.67%





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Arguments

  • Well, what legally defines something might not be the truth, because the law does not determine morality. You can’t blame the Trump administration for attacking this; there are a lot of pro-lifers who are not part of the Trump admin. They’re not going after birth control they just don’t wanna pay for it.  
  • This is incorrect.

    Brainwaves refers to "rhythmic or repetitive patterns of neural activity in the crntral nervous system" (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_oscillation)

    In fact "many clinically brain-dead patients retain central nervous system activity". (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1458950/)

    Ergo both your central points, that brainwaves are a sign of sentience and brainwaves are the determiner of legal brain death, are incorrect.
  • There is a difference between "feeling pain" and "reacting to stimuli". Trees, mushrooms and even microbes react to stimuli, meaning that damaging them sends signals throughout their "body". But they do not feel pain, since they lack a properly developed nervous system and its connection to the "central computer" (brain). Similarly, a recently deceased chicken has certain brain functionality remaining, but it is just a set of trace signals, it is not connected to the nearly-dead nervous system properly.

    I do not think there is a strict point where you could say, "1 second ago this creature did not feel pain, and now it does". It is a gradual process. Sensitivity to pain and awareness of pain develop slowly. A newborn infant will react to being poked with a needle, but that reaction will be very weak, very clunky. On the other hand, poke a child at 10 y/o, and the child will be very much aware at what is happening and will yell in pain.

    I would say that the personhood begins not at the point where creature's brain starts reacting to pain, but at the point where the creature can consciously think, "I am being subjected to pain". And that does not start until the age of 1-2 in humans.
  • List of Brain Dead Patients Who've Recovered

    https://kgov.com/brain-dead-patients-who-have-recovered

    our detection abilities are far better than 100 years ago, how good will they be 100 years from now?  the reliance and acceptance that we know everything is mind boggling arrogant.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • List of Brain Dead Patients Who've Recovered

    https://kgov.com/brain-dead-patients-who-have-recovered

    our detection abilities are far better than 100 years ago, how good will they be 100 years from now?  the reliance and acceptance that we know everything is mind boggling arrogant.
    Irrelevent. A person who's suffered an injury can recover unexpectedly,   but aa fetu that physically lacks specific capacities like a nervous system (which is what is under discussion here) just does not have them.
  • Ampersand said:

    List of Brain Dead Patients Who've Recovered

    https://kgov.com/brain-dead-patients-who-have-recovered

    our detection abilities are far better than 100 years ago, how good will they be 100 years from now?  the reliance and acceptance that we know everything is mind boggling arrogant.
    Irrelevent. A person who's suffered an injury can recover unexpectedly,   but aa fetu that physically lacks specific capacities like a nervous system (which is what is under discussion here) just does not have them.
    read the O.P. she used the word brainwave several times and in the title.  This is what she is going by and I have explained that we can now detect brainwaves at a level we could not 100 years ago and even when we can't people sometimes recover.  So you don't know that these waves can't be detected at an earlier level 100 years from now, than what we can currently detect.  So if brainwaves for her is the deciding factor we have killed babies with brainwaves for a very long time because we lacked the science and technology to detect them.  There's a lot to unpack in the O.P. but since this seems to be the crux of her argument this is what I chose to address.  Perhaps you should think a little (a lot) more before attempting to prove someone incorrect as you do because you come across that you don't understand what is being said.  I never mentioned or even implied a fetus, you assumed that, stop jumping to conclusions and we can have a better discussion.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • Personhood doesn't begin until you've gotten a job and moved out from your parents house.
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