Using debate topics to insult or degrade ideas

someone234

As a Social Democrat I have an easy time here supporting the censorship of the said . Silence the nuisance and make the others happy, this is the way of the left-wing progressive and here we have a first amendment supporting right-winger cowering to the trolling considering if the philosophy of letting malignant people have a voice is good or not. Shut them up and put them in the garbage for the good of the others in the community, simple as... No mercy.

Joeseph

@Vaulk

Maybe you could introduce some topics that are of interest to you and we could get some good exchanges going , the existence of god  debates will never be resolved and I guess passions rising on both sides as is the norm .

I have crossed swords with others but my way is always that if someone plays fair and does not sling insults I will play fairly and do likewise , unfortunately this does not happen a lot as tempers flare and words are exchanged .

I’ve decided and implemented that going forward I’m not getting  involved in such pettiness and started yesterday reporting those who will not do likewise , Aarong has already taken action .

So moving forward maybe we can have a re-introduction of topics that may bring some good spirited debating and variety into C D

someone234

@Joeseph You said CD but you meant DI at the end.

Applesauce

@Vaulk

the trend now is they argue with feelings and emotions.  When presented with facts they are largely ignored and not addressed.  This is the large trend of the fascist society we are seeing with the likes of antifa.  Speakers who are disagreed with are shouted and drown out to avoid anyone hearing their message.  Threats and actual violence is also used to silence those who they disagree with.  There's no reason sites like this would be immune to that mentality, the alt left liberalism disease is real and spreading.

someone234

@Applesauce I respond with fact and reason and I am left-leaning stop comparing it and stop calling the left Fascist. Fascism is a right-wing concept.

Applesauce

@someone234
Are you alt left?  antifa is not a right wing concept, nor is anyone on the right attacking leftist speakers and attempting to stop them from speaking.
Which side wants or wanted the government to create safe spaces and hate speech laws?  The left wields the government like a sword whenever they can.

someone234

@Applesauce The right says let's lower our shields so the most willing to cut and fastest to do so profit more.

Applesauce

@someone234
I don't see how that applies to the level of discourse topic presented in the o.p.

Joeseph

@someone234

Correct.  Thank you 

Applesauce

@someone234

this is a private forum, there is no first amendment here, they can censor and run it as they wish, it doesn't apply here.  If you'd like to know more on how the 1A doesn't apply in private industry etc it's easily found on Google.

someone234

@Applesauce the ethos does for a right winger

Applesauce

@someone234

I see no difference than advocating for censorship or free speech on a private forum, when the ones running it can and should be able to do what they wish.  Those who champion opposite ends are equals.

Vaulk

The idea that Fascism is a right wing concept is similar to claiming that Republicans or Right-wingers are in support of the KKK despite the Democratic party creating the organization itself.  It's certainly interesting when you research the term Fascism that the definition clearly states that it's a right-wing system but if we put on the neutral mind-set and allow all ideas from both sides of the table...things start to look suspicious when trying to tie Fascism to the Right-wing...Alt or not.

Who is the philosopher of Capitalism?\
Answer: Adam Smith of course.
Who is the philosopher of Marxism?
Answer: Carl Marx
Who is the philosopher of Fascism?
Answer: Giovanni Gentile

The underlying ideology of Fascism was set forth as heavily relying upon what Gentile referred to as "True Democracy" where the citizens willingly and obediently submit themselves to Society and to the State.  Gentile also went on to cast down what he called "Liberal Democracy" in which citizens are individuals who protect their own interests and rights by forming communities, especially in property and trade.  Sound familiar?   Throughout his life, Gentile identified himself with the left and in fact was a Socialist throughout his entire adult life.  Gentile adopted many of his philosophies from Marx who's version of Socialism didn't fit quite neatly enough into his own perspective and with some adjustment, because Europe's leading philosopher during the first half of the 20th century.  

Gentile's Fascism was merely and adjustment from the Socialism of Carl Marx, the core difference being that Fascism would arise from a National awareness and would unite rather than divide.  Other core values of the Fascist philosophy included

1. The idea that the private sector should be used to serve the public interest, and there is no distinction between the private interest and the public interest.  
2. Society and The State are one and the same.
3. There is no private sphere not regulated by the State
4. Power to the Government (Big Government)

“All is in the state and nothing human exists or has value outside the state.” Mussolini said that, in the Dottrina del fascismo, one of the doctrinal statements of early fascism, but Gentile wrote it. 
“It was Gentile who prepared the road for those like me who wished to take it.” ~Mussolini~

Take a look at Obama's Slogan at the 2012 Democratic Convention: “We belong to the government.” That final product of the centralized state is completely in harmony with Gentile’s thinking.

My conclusion from researching Gentile, Mussolini, the left and right is simply that Fascism could not have been birthed by any Right-wing organization.  Fascism is entirely too related to Socialism and is entirely too influenced in its creation by Socialism to be a right-wing ideology.  Small Government, power to the people, individual rights and interests, anti-socialism, anti-social democracy...these are the very definition of Right-Wing but Socialism and Fascism stands firmly against these principles and instead calls for BIG government and control by the state over all private matters with blatant Socialism roots along with Socialist ideals that bring all private matters into the power of a local government.

The history of an ideology is important, it cannot be overlooked or simply brushed away because it's inconvenient.  Fascism was fathered by a Man who was a Socialist and was Championed by another Man who was ALSO a socialist and became everything that the Right stands against.  No one on the right will tell you that Conservatism and Right-Wing politics is about giving all power to the State to control all aspects of private citizens' lives or willful submission to the government...it's ridiculous to think this.  

So set aside the reviews, or the "He said it's right wing" and look at the meaning of what we're talking about, look at the History, look at how it was created, look at what it stands for and please tell me how this is Right wing?

someone234

@Vaulk LOL! You really want to call KKK Left-wing and progressive because it happened to be what the corrupt Dems back then were involved with? Remind me again what the hero Republican Lincoln said:

"During his famous debates with Sen. Stephen Douglas, Lincoln explained to the crowd: “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”

Lincoln was no different than most white males, North and South, at the time. He was a white supremacist."

- https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/08/13/mean-remove-memorials-white-supremacists-includes-lincoln

Accessed via https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-lincoln-racism-equality-oppose/

Vaulk

@someone234

You know, I'm going to get the Dev in on this one.  This is like the 5th time that we've had a debate where I can't find what you're arguing against.  As in, I cannot find anywhere in my argument where I said that Lincoln or the Republicans weren't White supremacists at one point.  I know you wouldn't argue it unless I said it but...this is frustrating.  When I figure out what or who you're arguing against I'll get back to you.  Is it possible that one of my arguments were deleted and I can't see it now?

MayCaesar

I think this is just the "mainstream effect": once a certain service gains popularity, it starts attract all kinds of people, including those being there for reasons having nothing to do with the initial intention of the service - and a vocal minority of those people can seriously spoil the service for everyone else. Remember back when the Youtube comment section was full of intelligent debates under pretty much any more-or-less serious video? Those were the times...

The best response to people spoiling the broth is to just ignore them. They tend to go away eventually, once they realize that their shots do not reach their targets. Another solution is censorship, but that would really be counter-productive on a debate website. Hence I would stick with the former option.

someone234

@Vaulk Here I'll just quote you:

"The idea that Fascism is a right wing concept is similar to claiming that Republicans or Right-wingers are in support of the KKK despite the Democratic party creating the organization itself."

- Vaulk

I proved that it actually is nothing to do with the Dems at all, it was just a bastardisation of Democratic values. On the other hand Fascism is inherently right-wing in literally all ways other than the tariffs and media censorship.

Vaulk

@someone234

Well I suppose I can't argue with all that proof, evidence and rationale you provided.  I humbly submit to your superior intellectual prowess sir.

piloteer

"@someone234

Fascism/socialism/communism ALL were philosophical extensions of progressivism. Fascism is the epicenter of left wing politics.

TTKDB

@Joeseph: 

Joe, from what I've experienced via conversations with you, you don't debate fair or equally in how you debate others with your anti religious points of view.

Labelling religious people as indoctrinated sheeple, or labelling them as drug users is far from being fair or equal in how you express others isn't it? 

Did you express to Aarong how you were treating the religious individuals with your various word choice's? 

What did you do, get that conversation out of your system, and now you're ready to be fair and equal in how you treat others with your anti religious points of view? 


"I have crossed swords with others but my way is always that if someone plays fair and does not sling insults I will play fairly and do likewise , unfortunately this does not happen a lot as tempers flare and words are exchanged .

I’ve decided and implemented that going forward I’m not getting  involved in such pettiness and started yesterday reporting those who will not do likewise , Aarong has already taken action ."

Joe you created the very pettiness that you're talking about.

How does Joe go about harassing the religious parents and kids that he doesn't even know by labelling them as indoctrinated sheeple from a website on the internet?

And I expressed to you on more than one occasion, can you have a debate in a fair and equal equal manner, you labelled me as a drug user? 

Joe, that's not what fair and equal conversation looks like. 

So when you express a narrative like this:

(I have crossed swords with others but my way is always that if someone plays fair and does not sling insults I will play fairly and do likewise unfortunately this does not happen a lot as tempers flare and words are exchanged.) 

In regards to debating, please tell both sides of the story, and not just an interpretation of various conversations? 

Joeseph

@TTKDB

Yes you do that seeing as you cannot deny the facts , it won’t make the truth go away 

TTKDB

@Joeseph

WordsMatter

When people describe the right as fascist maybe they are wrong and I'll cede that. However authoritarianism is certainly a right wing concept and I think that's the type of government Trump would prefer. 

On the silencing of others. One of the biggest problems of social media is it gave everyone an equally powerful voice when they absolutely don't deserve that. Now someone who read an article one time against vaccines can go and post against someone who has spent their career working on vaccines. This then puts them in a bind, either respond to the anti vaxer legitimizing a debate between whether vaccines work or not, or ignore them and give them something to point to and say they stumped that highly accredited doctor.

Freedom of speech means we are all equal in the ability to say something, but the things that we say sure as hell aren't equal in quality truth or expertise. Social media makes the ignorant feel confident in their poorly supported ideas and allows them to form echo Chambers. 

TTKDB

@Joeseph:

"Yes you do that seeing as you cannot deny the facts , it won’t make the truth go away."

You mean your self definition of how you use the word "truth" to pilfer it for your own anti religious rhetoric pushing purposes? 

So in your mind, via how you utilize your anti religious thought process, you view the religious parents and kids as indoctrinated sheeple, because Joesephs pilfered version of the word "truth" helps Joeseph to harass the religious parents and kids with the words "indoctrinated sheeple because of how he uses the word truth against itself to help promote his anti religious rhetoric? 

That's the truth isn't Joeseph? 

As well as using the Religion section of this website to do your anti religious rhetoric bidding as well right? 

That's another truth isn't it? 

Joeseph

@TTKDB

Maybe it’s time you embraced the truth and accepted you’re indoctrinated , your denial is not convincing 

TTKDB

@Joeseph:

"Maybe it’s time you embraced the truth and accepted you’re indoctrinated , your denial is not convincing."

You harass the religious parents and kids on the internet that you don't even know, and you do it because you know that they have no clue that some guy on a website is verbally trashing them behind their backs, as you refer to them as indoctrinated sheeple? 

Religious individuals who are likely judges, lawyer's, scholar's, police officers, doctor's, fire fighters, men and women who have faught in wars, parents and kids who believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible?

And Joeseph, an anti religious rhetoric resident on a website, you believe that your these words from you, are going to mean anything to them, because you expressed them with such a conviction that only you could come up with? 

"Maybe it’s time you embraced the truth and accepted you’re indoctrinated , your denial is not convincing."

Joeseph, it's obvious that you have embraced your denail self convincingly well, and the two of you are an entertaining couple. 

Joeseph

@TTKDB

Spoken like a well and truly indoctrinated Sheep 

TTKDB

@Joeseph:

"Spoken like a well and truly indoctrinated Sheep"

Spoken like the anti religious rhetoric pushing lurker (that you appear to be), behind the backs of the 323 million plus citizens in this country calling them sheeple to their backs? 

This is what your anti religious rhetoric pushing bravery looks like.

Has this website and maybe some the internet itself become a part your personalized anti religious agenda promoting machine? 

That would make a good debate question, wouldn't it? 

And then the rest of the non atheist, theist, and the other anti religious individuals can look at you utilizing the "indoctrinated sheeple" term again, because your anti religious thought process deems it a necessity to utter it from your mouth again right Joeseph?

Cue Joeseph and his indoctrinated sheeple dialogue, 

Use this forum, let's see how more cheaply that you can treat it, with the same respect that you have for the millions of religious individuals who don't think, reason, or have utilize the same anti religious thought process that you do? 

And be more like Joeseph, right? 

There's another debate question. 

Oh wait, Joeseph has his term waiting, his favorite set of words to milk them for all that they are worth to express, "indoctrinated sheeple," it's on the tip of his tongue.

Let's see your anti religious thought process do it's thing? 

Joeseph

@TTKDB

Baa ,baa,baa

TTKDB

@Joeseph:

"Baa ,baa,baa."

Take note, this is how Joesephs anti religious thought process works. 

Reiterating this point to you:

Joeseph:"Baa ,baa,baa"

Spoken like the anti religious rhetoric pushing lurker (that you appear to be), behind the backs of the 323 million plus citizens in this country calling them sheeple to their backs? 

This is what your anti religious rhetoric pushing bravery looks like.

Joeseph

@TTKDB. 

322 million sheep

TTKDB

@Joeseph:

Do you believe that 322 million people are going to take your labelling of them as indoctrinated sheeple according to your anti religious thought process to heart? 

Are you taking your thought process that seriously by using this website and the internet as your anti religious crutches? 

Do you view yourself through your anti religious mindset as being  better than the religious individuals that you are labelling as indoctrinated sheeple? 

Just wanting to make sure that the witnesses who are reading this forum, are getting a clear understanding of how you express yourself. 

Joeseph

@TTKDB

322 indoctrinated sheep even Jesus called yous his flock .....Baa , baa , baa 

AmericanFurryBoy

It’s turning into . Do we want that? Or do we want a beautiful oasis of debates that are peaceful and benign

Erfisflat

AmericanFurryBoy said:

It’s turning into . Do we want that? Or do we want a beautiful oasis of debates that are peaceful and benign

"Peaceful and benign", to everyone but the flat earther, right?

TTKDB

@Joeseph:

"322 indoctrinated sheep even Jesus called yous his flock .....Baa , baa , baa"

I'm going to put a debate together, and I'm asking that the religious parents and kids, along with any religious scientists, ex or current sitting Judges, lawyer's, scholar's, police officers, doctor's, fire fighters, and the men and women who have served in the military who believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible, how they feel about you labelling them as "indoctrinated sheeple" according to your anti religious thought process.

Joeseph, I noticed how you didn't touch this question with any defense from you?

(Do you view yourself through your anti religious mindset as being  better than the religious individuals that you are labelling as indoctrinated sheeple?)

Care to comment? 

Or are you going to hide behind this anti religious word play?

"322 indoctrinated sheep even Jesus called yous his flock .....Baa , baa , baa"

Do you know what's sad, is how you are relying on this website and the internet in general to push your anti religious rhetoric with? 

You don't mind the rest of this website knowing this about you, do you?

Making a guess about you:

A question for you, and your probable answer:

(Hi all I'm Joeseph, and I like using this website to label people as indoctrinated sheeple, because this is how my thought process works?)

Is this true about you Joeseph? 

Yes or no? 

If you refer to the indoctrinated sheeple line as your response, I'll take that as a yes from you. 

Joeseph

@TTKDB

You say ......
(Hi all I'm Joeseph, and I like using this website to label people as indoctrinated sheeple, because this is how my thought process works?)


My reply .... No , this is how logic works , I don’t believe people like Jesus raised  from the dead , walk on water or change water into wine because I’m not Indoctrinated to believe unlike you and your fellow sheep . Baa , baa , baa

TTKDB

@Joeseph:

No, it's how the bias logic from your brain works, it's how you fuel the pathway from your brain to your mouth. 

Your anti religious thought process exposes your anti religious bias for what it is.

Joeseph

@TTKDB



Baa , baa , baa 

AmericanFurryBoy

@Erfisflat
Ok. Would you like me to apologize Erfisflat?

Erfisflat

AmericanFurryBoy said:

@Erfisflat
Ok. Would you like me to apologize Erfisflat?

Actually, if you want to make it up, you can give a logical reason to believe that you are on a spinning ball in an infinite vacuum, in that discussion, of course.

Zombieguy1987

@TTKDB ;
At it again with the whole "You hate religion because of X!" crap