The "Thin Blue Line" flag is and unpatriotic

Erfisflat

i like this one.

MayCaesar

Supporting a cause does not mean you support only that cause and no other cause. For me, the "Blue Lives Matter" flag means that I recognize the difficulties of the job the police officers have to do, the danger they expose themselves to every day, the amount of self-entitled people they face, and the overall bad reputation police forces has gotten as a result of Hollywood movies and press with certain agendas.

I can fly this flag, the American flag and, say, the LGBT flag at the same time. I do not see why one flag should override all other flags. Especially since, technically, a flag is just a colored piece of cloth, so what does it matter?

George_Horse

MayCaesar said:

 Especially since, technically, a flag is just a colored piece of cloth, so what does it matter?

A “colored” piece of cloth. So a flag does not mean anything to you? Does it not hold some kind of sacredness or value? What if I were to say the same about other things? “Oh that dog is just an animal.” or “Your mother is just a living being.” Some things hold value. Yes, a flag may just be a national symbol, but it is more than that, yes, that dog is just an animal, but it is more than “just an animal”, a car may be a machine, but it is more than just a “machine”, your mother may be another living being, but she can be more than just a “living being”. I do not know if I make much sense, but I do say this, there are many objects that hold value, they are more than just simple solids and objects, they can always be seen as something else, like a person than just something being in your presence. 

Erfisflat

George_Horse said:

MayCaesar said:

 Especially since, technically, a flag is just a colored piece of cloth, so what does it matter?

A “colored” piece of cloth. So a flag does not mean anything to you? Does it not hold some kind of sacredness or value? What if I were to say the same about other things? “Oh that dog is just an animal.” or “Your mother is just a living being.” Some things hold value. Yes, a flag may just be a national symbol, but it is more than that, yes, that dog is just an animal, but it is more than “just an animal”, a car may be a machine, but it is more than just a “machine”, your mother may be another living being, but she can be more than just a “living being”. I do not know if I make much sense, but I do say this, there are many objects that hold value, they are more than just simple solids and objects, they can always be seen as something else, like a person than just something being in your presence. 

You do realize that comparing inanimate objects to living beings is a false analogy, right?

MayCaesar

George_Horse said:
A “colored” piece of cloth. So a flag does not mean anything to you? Does it not hold some kind of sacredness or value? What if I were to say the same about other things? “Oh that dog is just an animal.” or “Your mother is just a living being.” Some things hold value. Yes, a flag may just be a national symbol, but it is more than that, yes, that dog is just an animal, but it is more than “just an animal”, a car may be a machine, but it is more than just a “machine”, your mother may be another living being, but she can be more than just a “living being”. I do not know if I make much sense, but I do say this, there are many objects that hold value, they are more than just simple solids and objects, they can always be seen as something else, like a person than just something being in your presence. 

Nothing has a meaning in itself; what meaning to attach to it depends only on the individual. A colored piece of cloth does not serve any practical function in itself, but people give it subjective meanings and act as if those meanings were objective/inherent. Logic and humanity do not always go hand in hand.

There is nothing "sacred" for me. I judge entities based on their actual value; the concept of something being "sacred" does nothing expect defend this something from criticism.

My mother is awesome, and I care deeply about her. On the other hand, if my mother was horrible, then she would not be a part of my life. Same goes for a pet and for anyone/anything else. I do not see any value in a flag, so, indeed, it means nothing to me. I like this country, but I prefer to express my feelings through acts of charity and creation, not by waving a piece of cloth.

I think humanity would go a long way if it stopped worshiping gods, flags, nations, leaders, etc. and focused on practical ideas instead.

George_Horse

MayCaesar said: 

I think humanity would go a long way if it stopped worshiping gods, flags, nations, leaders, etc. and focused on practical ideas instead.

I have not heard of people literally "worshipping" flags, or nations, I do not see the American flag as a "piece of cloth", more of a symbol, it holds much meaning.

Erfisflat

George_Horse said:

MayCaesar said: 

I think humanity would go a long way if it stopped worshiping gods, flags, nations, leaders, etc. and focused on practical ideas instead.

I have not heard of people literally "worshipping" flags, or nations, I do not see the American flag as a "piece of cloth", more of a symbol, it holds much meaning.

The American flag is an idol. It has more handling rules than the Bible, it's own song, it's own salute (which was changed from a right arm extended salute to an over the heart salute) it's own pledge, and is considered, by law, a living thing that demands reverence in the highest degree, even one that precedents God.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8

WordsMatter

Erfisflat said:

George_Horse said:

MayCaesar said: 

I think humanity would go a long way if it stopped worshiping gods, flags, nations, leaders, etc. and focused on practical ideas instead.

I have not heard of people literally "worshipping" flags, or nations, I do not see the American flag as a "piece of cloth", more of a symbol, it holds much meaning.

The American flag is an idol. It has more handling rules than the Bible, it's own song, it's own salute (which was changed from a right arm extended salute to an over the heart salute) it's own pledge, and is considered, by law, a living thing that demands reverence in the highest degree, even one that precedents God.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8

From the same section and chapter, but under subsection 3 instead of 8. It is made clear that the flying of a flag like this can be punished as a misdemeanor with a $100 fine and or 30 days imprisonment. This would apply to any flag that is clearly an adapter version of the official flag, just changing the colors is covered in this subsection. So the questionq about trusting or supporting cops aside, it seems pretty clear that this flag is unpatriotic as you are blatantly violating US code on how to treat the flag.

Erfisflat

WordsMatter said:

Erfisflat said:

George_Horse said:

MayCaesar said: 

I think humanity would go a long way if it stopped worshiping gods, flags, nations, leaders, etc. and focused on practical ideas instead.

I have not heard of people literally "worshipping" flags, or nations, I do not see the American flag as a "piece of cloth", more of a symbol, it holds much meaning.

The American flag is an idol. It has more handling rules than the Bible, it's own song, it's own salute (which was changed from a right arm extended salute to an over the heart salute) it's own pledge, and is considered, by law, a living thing that demands reverence in the highest degree, even one that precedents God.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8

From the same section and chapter, but under subsection 3 instead of 8. It is made clear that the flying of a flag like this can be punished as a misdemeanor with a $100 fine and or 30 days imprisonment. This would apply to any flag that is clearly an adapter version of the official flag, just changing the colors is covered in this subsection. So the questionq about trusting or supporting cops aside, it seems pretty clear that this flag is unpatriotic as you are blatantly violating US code on how to treat the flag.

I think you are confused. I like my American flags upside down on fire.

George_Horse

Erfisflat said:

The American flag is an idol. It has more handling rules than the Bible, it's own song, it's own salute (which was changed from a right arm extended salute to an over the heart salute) it's own pledge, and is considered, by law, a living thing that demands reverence in the highest degree, even one that precedents God.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8

But I did not see a section where it would mention people literally "worshipping" the flag. I love the American flag and I respect it, but I don't worship anything, no gods, people, or any other object. 

Erfisflat

Worship:

adoration or devotion comparable to religious homage, shown toward a person or principle.

You may not, but a lot of people do. The American flag is even put close to the pulpit next to the Bible in most churches. 

George_Horse

Erfisflat said:

Worship:

adoration or devotion comparable to religious homage, shown toward a person or principle.

You may not, but a lot of people do. The American flag is even put close to the pulpit next to the Bible in most churches. 

Where did you find your definition?

Erfisflat

From Google, are you implying that worship only can be done to a deity? Some people worship their wives. Some people worship Satan. Some people worship their new shoes or their iPhone.

Zombieguy1987

Ah, the thin blue line flag, I like these flags


Also, if this  triggers you, you overvalue the worth of cloth, and ignore the freedom of speech

George_Horse

Erfisflat said:

From Google, are you implying that worship only can be done to a deity? Some people worship their wives. Some people worship Satan. Some people worship their new shoes or their iPhone.

You cannot be serious. From what actual recognized dictionary other than a web engine definition could you find a similar definition?

George_Horse

@Zombieguy1987 This debate is about the "Thin blue line flag". Add an actual argument, not an input about flags. 

Erfisflat

George_Horse said:

Erfisflat said:

From Google, are you implying that worship only can be done to a deity? Some people worship their wives. Some people worship Satan. Some people worship their new shoes or their iPhone.

You cannot be serious. From what actual recognized dictionary other than a web engine definition could you find a similar definition?

I don't see anything wrong with the definition, aside from it disagrees with what you think worshipping should mean. Once more, are you implying that the subject of worshipping can only be a deity?

Erfisflat

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship

: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion 

• a celebrity worshippedby her fans

Erfisflat

noun

1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/worship?s=ts

Erfisflat

What definition of worship do you abide by? @George_Horse?

Erfisflat

You admit that you "love and respect it"

Zombieguy1987

@George_Horse ;
tbh honest, does it look like I care?

But, I find nothing wrong about the thin blue line flag, and anyone who hates it, but says the LGBTQ+ flag is free speech are hypocrites, because people who use the thin blue line flag are showing support for law enforcement because of how much flak they get just because someone said " you cop! I'm not listening to your orders then gets shot
without the police s**t would hit the fan faster than Nazi Germany's collapse.

Erfisflat

Zombieguy1987 said:

@George_Horse ;
tbh honest, does it look like I care?

But, I find nothing wrong about the thin blue line flag, and anyone who hates it, but says the LGBTQ+ flag is free speech are hypocrites, because people who use the thin blue line flag are showing support for law enforcement because of how much flak they get just because someone said " you cop! I'm not listening to your orders then gets shot
without the police s**t would hit the fan faster than Nazi Germany's collapse.

You do realize that under Hitler's orders, the police were the ones who rounded up the Jews?

George_Horse

Erfisflat said:

What definition of worship do you abide by? @George_Horse?

I would see it as in a religious manner, like religious praise to a go or reverence of some kind. I did say that I "love and respect" the flag, but I would not say that I would be worshipping it, because the use of that word does not seem fitting to me. 

WordsMatter

@Zombieguy1987" anyone who hates it, but says the LGBTQ+ flag is free speech are hypocrites"

This isn't logical. I can hate something but still consider it free speech. Which I do in this case, I don't like the flag, I don't like the police, but i recognize you have a right to fly it if you want. The possible hypocrisy would be if someone said the blue line flag in unpatriotic, but the LGBT flag isn't. According to US code both are unpatriotic.

Erfisflat

George_Horse said:

Erfisflat said:

What definition of worship do you abide by? @George_Horse?

I would see it as in a religious manner, like religious praise to a go or reverence of some kind. I did say that I "love and respect" the flag, but I would not say that I would be worshipping it, because the use of that word does not seem fitting to me. 

So you don't accept that definition, and you believe that the subject of worship can only be a deity. I am not religious, but I worship God. I mean worship as in everyone stands at attention when the flag is called to be praised, and men and women risk life and limb for it. This does not seem like worship to you? Like as in a singer is worshipped by their fans?

Zombieguy1987

@Erfisflat are we talking about Germany?

MayCaesar

@George_Horse

Really, you have not? What about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsdMfWJ7pvA

This looks uncomfortably similar to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsBZsvbUZow

Maybe "worship" is an overly strong word for what I wanted to attract attention to - but the general basis is still the same.

Erfisflat

Zombieguy1987 said:

@Erfisflat are we talking about Germany?

Yes, you were actually. Here is the quote.

Zombieguy1987 said:

@George_Horse ;
tbh honest, does it look like I care?

But, I find nothing wrong about the thin blue line flag, and anyone who hates it, but says the LGBTQ+ flag is free speech are hypocrites, because people who use the thin blue line flag are showing support for law enforcement because of how much flak they get just because someone said " you cop! I'm not listening to your orders then gets shot
without the police s**t would hit the fan faster than Nazi Germany's collapse.

Erfisflat

Here too, out of coincidence.

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/28553/#Comment_28553

Zombieguy1987

@Erfisflat
So, apparently when comparing what would happen if all police was removed from America is apparently talking about German police during WW2

Well, because you apparently dropped out of middle school, I was comparing the societal collapse of Nazi Germany when they lost WW2 to what if the police were removed from America

Also, your link has nothing to do with Nazi Germany anyway

Erfisflat

@Zombieguy1987

Thanks for clarifying.

TTKDB

@Erfisflat:

Like I said before Mr.Erf,

You're using this website to get your various attention seeking ramblings about this or subject matter met. 

You're the first individual I've seen to state that the flag is an idol?

Do you maybe worship yourself? 

Erfisflat

"Like I said before Mr.Erf,

You're using this website to get your various attention seeking ramblings about this or subject matter met. 

You're the first individual I've seen to state that the flag is an idol?

Do you maybe worship yourself? "

If you can't address an argument, there is no need to post anything. Your personal attacks are both fallaciousness, and immature. You've done nothing but ask questions and throw around accusations.

@TTKDB

TTKDB

@Erfisflat:

"If you can't address an argument, there is no need to post anything. Your personal attacks are both fallaciousness, and immature. You've done nothing but ask questions and throw around accusations."

you don't know how to argue or debate, you're an attention seeking mouth piece.

How mature does your use of the English language look when you diminish the word "earth" down to your version of it: "Erf?"

Erfisflat

TTKDB said:

@Erfisflat:

"If you can't address an argument, there is no need to post anything. Your personal attacks are both fallaciousness, and immature. You've done nothing but ask questions and throw around accusations."

you don't know how to argue or debate, you're an attention seeking mouth piece.

How mature does your use of the English language look when you diminish the word "earth" down to your version of it: "Erf?"

First claim is unsubstantiated, it is you who have no argument, as we all see in the flat earth debate. You've dropped any logical argument and are left with insult and fatuous attacks on my user name.

TTKDB

@Erfisflat:

Because of your the earth is flat ideology:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Why_Wikipedia_cannot_claim_the_earth_is_not_flat

Erfisflat

TTKDB said:

@Erfisflat:

Because of your the earth is flat ideology:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Why_Wikipedia_cannot_claim_the_earth_is_not_flat

Ok, now that we've gone over the wiki links, what's your point?

Erfisflat

TTKDB said:

@Erfisflat:

Because of your the earth is flat ideology:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Why_Wikipedia_cannot_claim_the_earth_is_not_flat

Disinformation. Except for the second link, which say that wiki can't say the earth is flat because it isn't accepted among the pseudocientific community.

TTKDB

@Erfisflat:

"Disinformation. Except for the second link, which say that wiki can't say the earth is flat because it isn't accepted among the pseudocientific community."

You said earlier that all of the news media outlets have been bought and paid for in their not discussing the earth is flat ideology? 

So you're implying that their news media silence is to keep your ideology out of the news? 

Yes or no?

Erfisflat

@TTKDB

Actually, what I said was "The mainstream media is bought and paid for..."

TTKDB

@Erfisflat:

Actually, what I said was "The mainstream media is bought and paid for..."

And following up with the same question:

So you're implying that the mainstream media's silence is to keep your ideology out of the news? 

Erfisflat

TTKDB said:

@Erfisflat:

Actually, what I said was "The mainstream media is bought and paid for..."

And following up with the same question:

So you're implying that the mainstream media's silence is to keep your ideology out of the news? 

I wouldn't say there was silence, more of a dismissal of the idea, the empirical facts rather. If the flat Earth is on the news, it's often ridiculed.

Polaris95

It's just a flag...

Nathaniel_B

Polaris95 said:

It's just a flag...

I'd like to tell that to pro-cop supporters when I say I look down on their flag. 

Zombieguy1987

Nathaniel_B said:

Polaris95 said:

It's just a flag...

I'd like to tell that to pro-cop supporters when I say I look down on their flag. 

If they hate your opinion about the flag that's their issue but calling all cops as untrustworthy is like calling all Russians communists. You're being prejudiced 

Nathaniel_B

Zombieguy1987 said:

If they hate your opinion about the flag that's their issue but calling all cops as untrustworthy is like calling all Russians communists. You're being prejudiced 

So you tellin me you trust all cops?

Zombieguy1987

Nathaniel_B said:

Zombieguy1987 said:

If they hate your opinion about the flag that's their issue but calling all cops as untrustworthy is like calling all Russians communists. You're being prejudiced 

So you tellin me you trust all cops?

I wouldn't say all cops, but i do trust say... The cop who lives down my street and the 5 cops at my school

Nathaniel_B

Zombieguy1987 said:

I wouldn't say all cops, but i do trust say... The cop who lives down my street and the 5 cops at my school

Do you know their names? And how long have you known them? And for me, I can't trust no cops, its just h0w it is. You trust them cops cuz you know them, but if you didn't know them, you'd still trust them? I can't just walk up to a cop and be like: "Yo!" Nah son, you ain't seen injustice firsthand, so of course you would be thinkin differently, but you really can't be trustin no cops. I ain't say they was "untrustworthy" I just said you can't trust them, you know cops and you trust them, thats you, but I ain't know cops, and even if I did, I still ain't trust them. Its a impossibility, tell you this, trust is earned, not given, its been like that for centuries, if cops want people to trust them, they got to earn the people's trust, cuz there is too many bad cops out there. 

Zombieguy1987

Nathaniel_B said:

Zombieguy1987 said:

I wouldn't say all cops, but i do trust say... The cop who lives down my street and the 5 cops at my school

Do you know their names? 
No
And how long have you known them? 

Cop in my neighborhood my whol life and the school resource officers for 2. 

And for me, I can't trust no cops, its just h0w it is. You trust them cops cuz you know them, but if you didn't know them, you'd still trust them? 

I give cops the benefit of the doubt. Thier job is very stressful for thier lives and mental state. Sure, some are mean, and abuse their power. But those are a small minority. Most cops do their job to protect and serve theiir communites

I can't just walk up to a cop and be like: "Yo!" Nah son, you ain't seen injustice firsthand, so of course you would be thinkin differently, but you really can't be trustin no cops. I ain't say they was "untrustworthy" I just said you can't trust them, you know cops and you trust them, thats you, but I ain't know cops, and even if I did, I still ain't trust them. Its a impossibility, tell you this, trust is earned, not given, its been like that for centuries, if cops want people to trust them, they got to earn the people's trust, cuz there is too many bad cops out there.