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Who was the first progressive rock band?

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Anyone who mentions rush, automatically looses.
About Persuade Me

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  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2926 Pts   -  
    @piloteer

    You make good points regarding Yes, KC album was released in October and Yes in July of the same year, Genesis in March of 69, but I think it was still experimental or proto-prog... 

    Tull is my all-time defining band, though Gabriel era Genesis is dangerously close, but I'd argue that their first album "This Was" is more blues than prog, 
    Ian Anderson was not in complete artistic control at the time so it may explain that... 

    I thought about listing Zappa's "Freak Out" album, released in 66... But Frank is in a category of his own, and he's not British so... ;) 
    piloteer
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "



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  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1658 Pts   -  
    Probably the moody blues or pink floyd
    piloteer
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • piloteerpiloteer 1534 Pts   -  
    "@Erfisflat ;

    The Moody Blues and Pink Floyd are certainly proto-prog bands, but I don't know that I would specifically call them prog. They're avant-garde rock bands. I was thinking along the lines of Yes, or Genesis, or King Crimson. Maybe even Jethro Tull.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    If not Velvet Underground, then David Bowie.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1534 Pts   -  
    "@CYDdharta

    Woops, whoa. The velvet underground!?!? Actually you make a very good argument when you mention David Bowie, because his earliest music was definitely progressive. I'm not sure what to do here. Do I press the "convince button" or do I not. You make a good argument, but you ruin it when you mention the velvet underground. I love the velvet underground, but they were NOT progressive. They didn't even influence progressive rock bands. They were a surrealist extension of electric Dylan. And the more I think about it, the more your argument falls short. David Bowie's first album was progressive folk with an eclectic mix of Rolling Stones like mod rock, not progressive rock. You may have made a good point, because Bowie's first album came out the same year as the first YES album, and the first Genesis album, and the first King Crimson album, but I think the progressivness of Bowie's album was a reaction to the other albums. 

    Thanks for contributing though.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    piloteer said:
    "@CYDdharta

    Woops, whoa. The velvet underground!?!? Actually you make a very good argument when you mention David Bowie, because his earliest music was definitely progressive. I'm not sure what to do here. Do I press the "convince button" or do I not. You make a good argument, but you ruin it when you mention the velvet underground. I love the velvet underground, but they were NOT progressive. They didn't even influence progressive rock bands. They were a surrealist extension of electric Dylan. And the more I think about it, the more your argument falls short. David Bowie's first album was progressive folk with an eclectic mix of Rolling Stones like mod rock, not progressive rock. You may have made a good point, because Bowie's first album came out the same year as the first YES album, and the first Genesis album, and the first King Crimson album, but I think the progressivness of Bowie's album was a reaction to the other albums. 

    Thanks for contributing though.
    Bowie was a big fan of the Velvet Underground.  He took the refrain from Heroes from I'm Waiting for My Man.



  • piloteerpiloteer 1534 Pts   -  
    "@CYDdharta ;

    It is true that David Bowie was influenced by the velvet underground. So were The Beatles, The Who, Neil Young, The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield and Jefferson Airplane (among others). But Bowie's influence by the Velvet Underground was because he actually met and became friends with them, but before he met them in 1971, he didn't know who they were, and had never heard of them. By the time Bowie met the velvet underground, he had already moved away from the progressive-folk style of his first album, and moved into a more gritty straight forward rock sound. David Bowie's third album was pretty eclectic. The first half was his attempt at the burgeoning singer-songwriter sound comming out of California, but with an operatic flare. The second half was a distinctly different, more gritty sound. It's obvious what David Bowie songs were influenced by the velvet underground, and those songs are straight foward gritty rock songs, without any symphonic undertones. They were not anywhere near, space oddity, or starman. You could make the argument that the Velvet Underground were the first psychedelic band. They were psychedelic before that term existed. Even though the Velvet Underground hated them, all the San Fransico bands wanted to sound like the Velvet Underground.(the Velvet Underground hated everybody. They were PRICKS.). You're argument that the Velvet Underground influenced progressive-rock, is not very convincing. I will agree that they may have influenced psychedelic bands, or acid rock, which is a genre that influenced progg, but that influence was indirect.
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2926 Pts   -  
    Even today, the "prog-rock" label is not clearly defined... When did proto-prog actually became "prog-rock"?  

    We can list pioneers but an actual "First Band" will be difficult... It might be easier to find the definitive first "prog-rock" Album, an album that we can't say is "proto-prog", "psychedelic rock"  and such.

    To me that album would be "In the court of the Crimson King".  
    piloteer
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • piloteerpiloteer 1534 Pts   -  
    @Plaffelvohfen

    This is true, however, I must point out that Yes put their first album out before King Crimson dropped their debut. The only reason the first Yes album may not be considered a progressive rock album is because much of it was recorded in one take. But as far as I'm concerned, that only serves as a testament to how great Yes must have been live, it does nothing to prove to me that their first album wasn't progressive. Also, I think Genesis put their first album out before King Crimson too. Although Jethro Full was not a full fledge progressive rock band, they did release the song living in the past very early that same year(1969). But it is hard to pinpoint which band was the first prog rock band, because we can't just base it on who released their album first.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • piloteerpiloteer 1534 Pts   -   edited February 2019
    @Plaffelvohfen

    For the most part, prog heads consider the King Crimson album to be the first truly progressive rock album, that is unquestionably prog. I always thought Jethro Tull was just an Ian Anderson solo project that he happened to call Jethro Tull. I didn't realize that they were a normally functioning band at one time. I can't say I've ever heard the Frank Zappa album, because I'd rather eat bad shellfish than listen to that tripe, but a lot of people do bring that album up when they talk about prog. Since I can't say for sure, I can't argue that your wrong, but I still wonder if we're not talking about proto prog when it comes to Zappas early work. I'd argue that if Zappas first album could be considered, then why not pet sounds by the beach boys? That one came out before the freak out album. It was considered the first inception of symphonic rock, and it made art rock viable on a pop level. John Lennon and Paul McCartney have both, on separate occasions, said that the pet sounds album was the biggest influence for Sergeant Peppers. I do absolutely agree with you that Peter Gabriel Genesis was the bees knees. When Peter Gabriel left Genesis, they lost 3/4 of their cool. 

    I don't really understand why you or anybody would think the Yes album, or the Genesis album wasn't straight forward prog rock, but a lot of people do question the progressability of those albums, so your skepticism isn't unwarranted. Some people consider Black Sabbaths first album to be prog, and it's difficult to argue against them on that one. I guess I'll give this one to you though. Nobody questions whether ITCOTCK was progressive, but they question all the other ones!
    Plaffelvohfen
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2926 Pts   -  
    @piloteer

    We probably won't settle this question unequivocally anyway... ;)

    But your arguments are pretty good too, we're trying to distinguish between 256 shades of "progginess" it seems. But we would probably agree on the top 10 prog pioneers, with maybe 1 or 2 exception, coming from the outfield. 

    In regards to Zappa, to be honest, the album Freak Out is still experimental rock to me, the prog sound is just not there, it came in later albums like Joe's Garage... But as you said, it comes out often when discussing prog origins, I do know he really liked Gentle Giant, so there's that... ;)
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • maxxmaxx 959 Pts   -  
    @piloteer queen
  • piloteerpiloteer 1534 Pts   -   edited June 2019
    @maxx

    Although Queens first album was amazing, it came out in 73. I think by then the prog-heads were already established as such. One could however, make the argument that Queen was one of the first prog-metal bands. I’d buy that argument.
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2926 Pts   -  
    @piloteer
    One could however, make the argument that Queen was one of the first prog-metal bands. I’d buy that argument.
    Nah, that would be Rush... ;)  Queen, stands in a field of its own though... 
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • piloteer said:
    Anyone who mentions rush, automatically looses.
    That is just Cold...………….
    The Rolling stones, get it progressive rock band rolling stones.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1534 Pts   -   edited June 2019
    @Plaffelvohfen

    If we're shifting this discussion to prog-metal, then I'd say Sabbath bloody Sabbath was the first time proggish elements were infused into heavy metal music. That album came out in 73. Rush's first album came out in 74. But it's Sabbaths album sabotage that most prog-metal gurus point to and say was the template of what became the prog-metal of the 80s and 90s, like dream theater and queensryche. Rush is a major influence on that genre, but they didn't invent it. Even though it's cliche to say so, it doesn't make it untrue that every subgenre of heavy metal can be traced back to Black Sabbath. Unlike classic progressive rock, prog-metal is a little bit easier to figure out where it derives from.  


    Plaffelvohfen
  • piloteerpiloteer 1534 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87

    I see what you did there.  :smirk:
  • YardBirds……………………...
    piloteerPlaffelvohfen
  • piloteerpiloteer 1534 Pts   -   edited June 2019
    @John_C_87

     Hmmmmmm, that's actually not a bad point. They were heavily experimental after Eric TheClap left them. They used virtuosity and were on the forefront of modern musical styles and guitar techniques. I personally wouldn't say they were straightforward progressive rock, but like @Plaffelvohfen pointed out, you can't really pinpoint the actual first progressive rock sound, because it was a series of musical progressions that led to the genre we now know as progressive rock. I also believe the term progressive rock was just an observation of the style of rock that would quickly change in mood and tempo, so each song was more like a piece, and each part was like a movement, like you'd see in classical music. It's really just a recognition of category rather than a recognition of style or genre onto itself. So it's like trying to pinpoint the exact day humans became humans instead of apes. Genetically speaking, you can't actually do that, because you'd easily have 100,000 years of wiggle room on each side of that supposed pinpoint in time. I will say the Yardbirds sound certainly did anticipate progressive rock and what rock artists were trying to achieve at that time. I would say they weren't progressive per se, but they're certainly in the same wheelhouse.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • If you are getting that detailed there is no known progressive rock music band the Hard rock music didn't become progressive till the innovation of thrash metal was fused to it. Making the first ban obscurely hidden away from the commercial market and video and CD viewers, as many of these bands lived for the live show only. As a hard core way of life and living. ????
  • maxxmaxx 959 Pts   -  
    @piloteer there used to be a band called the guess who, which came out long before the group The Who. The guess who had an album called the magic bus.
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