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Should the wall be build to keep away immigrants?

Debate Information

No, the wall should not be built. It is not right.

yolostidejoecavalryCYDdhartaAgility_DudecheesycheeseskippyTTKDBZombieguy1987SharkyHumbugand 3 others.

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  • aksk_19299aksk_19299 20 Pts   -  
    We should build a wall. As Trump said illegal immigrants are pouring into the country for he southern border.
    EmeryPearsonZombieguy1987Nathaniel_BItsIsaaccheesycheeseHumbugDylanitsnicolemateAntolinyannamayand 5 others.
  • No, a wall should not be built. It is not based on what America was founded on.
  • andje_23939andje_23939 13 Pts   -  
    It should be built. Also, Lakmsj_2029391, America may not have been founded on letting drug dealers into the US.
  • Yes, the wall should be built and Trump claim is will be.
  • The wall should be built.
  • ajajj_1829ajajj_1829 13 Pts   -  
    The wall should be built. It is necessary to the border control and national security of the United States and its people's safety.
  • keii_2039keii_2039 14 Pts   -  
    The wall should not be built.
  • The wall should not be built. It is an expensive project that may not be payed back form Mexico to the United States.
  • The wall should be built to increase national security and border control.
  • I think the wall is the right decision.  It is interesting to me that 75% agree on this poll.
  • Yes, a wall on the southern border is necessary and has been infnored or put away for too long.
  • ale5ale5 263 Pts   -  
    So an undisclosed part of Trump's proposed $30bb defense supplement in the new budget will be to pay for the wall.  I would like to see ROI of that investment.
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1367 Pts   -  
    @ale5 I would like to see an ROI on that investment as well, but first we would have to calculate the cost of slowing the flow of weapons and drugs across the border, and the reduction of rapes (80% of the women who cross into the US from Mexico are sexually assaulted on the way).
  • alenkajj_19alenkajj_19 2 Pts   -  
    Yes, and many conservatives are now for this plan if Trump's.
  • model67model67 54 Pts   -  
    Building a wall is a waste of resources that could be directed towards a more productive goal. Are you aware of the many tunnels drug dealers build through the border?  Did you see the tunnel el chapo built to break out of prison, it had traffic signals and lighting.  I was surprise it did not have a starbucks.  If we were in the 80's, the wall would have been a good investment, but not now.  This is an excuse to kick back money to the president's friends who own construction companies and will get very lucrative contracts.  A 30 foot wall is going to open a mexican market for 35 foot ladders. 
  • lamen_82435lamen_82435 4 Pts   -  
    Yes, model67 brought a up a good point. There are many tunnels.
  • agsragsr 861 Pts   -  
    @model67 made a good point.  We can argue investment in a wall, but we need to see a plan to ensure as that the wall will be tunnel-proof. In the Palestinian- Israel border there is a similar concern re tunnels and I have not seen a good solution. I am open to the idea of the wall that actually works, but would want to understand the ROI as others mentioned, impact on social issues, and the tunnel-proofing assessment.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • That's an amazing point agsr and I completely agree.
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 233 Pts   -  
    The idea of building a wall is absurd.  It was a good solution for the Great Wall of China thousands years ago, when there was a physical safety issue.  But in 2017, really?Trump made bold promises that he will have Mexico pay for the wall, but now it looks like it is in his budget proposal. The tunnel situation is a valid concern that I don't see addressed by anyone.  Ultimately @model67 brings up an interesting point. Whose interests does Trump represent. He is a real estate guy with deep roots that can never be fully traced to the construction industry. Somehow a multi-billion wall construction project will end up with lots of cash either in his pocket or his buddies.
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • lakkj_1921lakkj_1921 3 Pts   -  
    Well, I have to politely disagree with whytrump. Although, he makes some good points, I can argue against them and for them in some or certain ways.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1367 Pts   -  
    @agsr Is it imperative that the wall be tunnel-proof?  Granted, the more difficult it is to tunnel under and/or the more easy it is to detect tunneling efforts, the better.  But even if the wall can be successfully tunnel under, it will still serve a purpose.  It's much easier to cross an open field than dig a tunnel.  The number of illegals crossing will be severely limited, and much more easy to detect.  Seismic sensors can be installed as the wall is built to detect tunneling projects.  Even if the sensors are defeated, all of the people coming thru the tunnel will come out in the same area, giving ICE agents an area to target.
  • agsragsr 861 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta, let's call tunnel-resistant instead of tunnel-proof. 
    Live Long and Prosper
  • YYCDebaterYYCDebater 10 Pts   -  
    The idea of building a wall is unacceptable. The costs are enormous, it has a controversial effect to what has been intended, and most illegal immigrants have illegal passports and fly by plane. If you want more info, go to this link 
  • snapdapa_aqsnapdapa_aq 20 Pts   -  
    I also agree with YYCdebater. Building a wall is a waster of money and simply unacceptable.
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 233 Pts   -  
    Great video @YYCDebater ;
    so weather it is "tunnel resistant", plane-resistant. Budget-resistant, it is just not a good Imvestment for American Tax Payers.  Of course it will be fantastic for construction and real estate industry that Trump represents and financially benefits from. 

    WhyTrump - a good question
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1367 Pts   -  

    I disagree.  Even though the video is one-sided to make a point, it says that 23 to 40 of illegals come in by plane.  That means the wall could reduce illegal immigration by 60 to 77 percent, which I don't consider insignificant.

  • jabudu_wouwjabudu_wouw 2 Pts   -  
    I completely agree with CYDharta. He made an amazing point.
  • agsragsr 861 Pts   -  
    This video is pretty one-sided as others have stated.  It is a well-made video, but sounds a bit like anti-Trump propoganda.  I specifcally would want to see factual support behind their claim of 23-40% of illegal immigrants coming by plane. I dont understand how thats possible, and if so we should look to crack down on that for sure.  Even of that's the case as @CYDdharta pointed out, the wall will still significantly reduce the inflow.  I am still very supportive of the idea of the wall,  but would want to see the financials.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • ohhh_1083ohhh_1083 2 Pts   -  
    Trump should build a wall.
  • ale5ale5 263 Pts   -  
    Looks like there is more detail on source of funding for the wall. Tax payers are asked to prioritize the wall over airport security and coast guards, both of each are gettimg draconian cuts in Trump's new budget
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • joecavalryjoecavalry ( Pts   -  
    Yes, illegal immigration needs to stop.
    DebateIslander and a lover. 
  • agsragsr 861 Pts   -  
    More details came out regarding funding of the wall.

    Trump Administration Gives Details on Border-Wall Plans
    so far I didn't see anything that would address the tunnel concern though.

    The fate of the supplemental 2017 spending will be the first sign as to whether Congress is prepared to go along with Mr. Trump’s vision for an expensive wall along the border. 

    the administration is asking for 20 miles of new wall construction, including 14 miles in the San Diego area and 6 miles in the Rio Grande Valley, Texas, area. The San Diego stretch, estimated at $251 million would cost nearly $18 million per mile. The Texas stretch, at $146 million, would cost $24 million per mile.
    The administration is also asking for a new levee-wall system over a 28-mile stretch in the Rio Grande Valley, which would cost nearly a half-billion dollars alone, or just under $18 million per mile. The entire Texas portion of the border is marked by the Rio Grande River.
    Finally, the administration is asking for 14 miles of replacement fence in the San Diego area, at $102 million, or about $7 million per mile.
    The rest of the administration’s request would pay for surveillance technology, such as new integrated fixed towers, and for road construction.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • VaulkVaulk 741 Pts   -  
    Many interesting and good points being brought up here from @agsr , @ale5 , @CYDdharta ;, and many others.  My weigh-in on the wall is simply this: What have we been doing about illegal immigration, drug running and criminals crossing the border?  Has it been working?  If it hasn't been working and there exists significant evidence that our methods are ineffective so far...what proposals do we have that are up and being considered right now to replace our current method?  And finally: "Who else besides Trump has brought up the issue (Before he did) of the problem at our border and has offered a viable solution"?As far as I know, there isn't another proposal in the air currently that passes the common sense test or appears to be a legitimate solution to the overall problem.  

    I'll concede that Trump's "Great Wall" idea might not be the best idea...but legitimately, what other proposals do we have to compare it to?  SERIOUSLY...can anyone name ONE proposal that existed BEFORE Donald Trump brought it up during the Election race?  If you're firing up google right now then the answer is "No".  Granted I don't viciously keep up with the news but the only Headlines I recall about the border before Trump came along and made it a hot topic was essentially in layman's terms "Our border sucks, anyone can cross it, we can't stop them".  So before everyone goes casting the first stone at Trump for his larger-than-life idea, ask yourself "Who else is honestly trying to fix this problem and what did they actually do to fix it"?  Because as far as I'm concerned, Trump is the only one that's proposed something that even remotely looks like a solution.

    ~Now for specifics~

    @YYCDebater , Seeings how it's no mystery that the actual number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. is could anyone possibly state that "Most illegal immigrants have fake passports and fly by plane"?  This sounds suspiciously like an inflated statement used to reinforce a biased agenda.  Even the Federation of American Immigration Reform concedes that their numbers are estimates at best because there is "No known Data" regarding the population of Illegal Immigrants in the U.S..  It's ALL estimates and there can be NO standard of accuracy due to the disparity in numbers.

    model67 , I don't fully understand your point, you're saying that because the wall couldn't possibly be 100% effective at deterring Illegal Immigration, that we shouldn't build it?  Also, what is this "More productive goal" that you're referencing?  I contest that there is no plan, system, program, idea, policy, rule, law or code that has ever or will ever be all-encompassing, totally effective or essentially a "Fix-All Solution".  Implying that a preventative measure needs to be 100% unbeatable in order for it to be considered viable would mean that none of our current preventative measures in the U.S. are viable and should all be done away with...from the Police Department all the way to the top of the Government offices.  This is absurd.  There is no such thing as a singular fix-all solution to a problem as massive as Illegal Immigration. 

    I would agree that halting the border crossing is the way to "Begin" this solution and when considering how to stop someone from trespassing...a very common and historically successful method has always been the use of physical boundaries (Walls, fences, barricades).  I think the wall should be built and we should re-assess our border security afterwards to determine what else needs to be done to halt the inflow of Illegal Immigrants.

    "If there's no such thing as a question then what kind of questions do people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".

  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3435 Pts   -  
    That building a wall is even remotely seriously considered is an indication of how far we have fallen in the latest couple of decades. The cost of passing such a wall is around $5, which probably will not stop many immigrants desperate enough to leave everything they own at home to illegally cross a hot desert:

    Illegal immigration must be stopped, but trying to stop it with a wall is like trying to stop a river by throwing a small rock into the current.
  • Mr_BombasticMr_Bombastic 144 Pts   -  
    History teaches us that a country without secure borders cannot survive.

  • Mr_BombasticMr_Bombastic 144 Pts   -   edited July 2018

    What we need to do is remove the incentives for coming here illegally. We need to prosecute business owners who hire illegals. We need to stop giving them benefits at the taxpayers expense. We need to send them back when we find them. If they come back again, sentence them to several years of hard labor, then send them back again.
  • VaulkVaulk 741 Pts   -  

    Indeed, full agreement there.  I believe that people who perpetuate the issue by enticing illegal immigrants to work for them in the United States should be heavily punished.  As with any other law, anytime one becomes forgotten or a new one is implemented...we make examples of few in order to get the message across to all that it's not going to be tolerated.  I think the fines should be based on a flat percentage of the company's total gross income, 0.5% should work to start out.  Once a few companies go bankrupt and a few employers are thrown in jail for breaking the law...other companies will see this as a need to assess their own company and will begin instituting internal reviews to ensure compliance with the law.  Once Illegal Immigrants can no longer gain employment in the United States...a good majority of them will discontinue their crossing. 

    As for the rest of the drug runners, sex traffickers and other criminal seeking to put their criminal trade to use in the United States...I'd recommend beefing up Border Patrol to enable them to do their job more effectively...and build a wall to control access points.

    "If there's no such thing as a question then what kind of questions do people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".

  • Mr_BombasticMr_Bombastic 144 Pts   -  

    I would add that anyone caught in the act of human trafficking, or running drugs into the country should be shot on site. No trial needed, since they were caught in the act. If we did this 100 percent in of the time, it would cease to be a problem.
  • yolostideyolostide 95 Pts   -  
    The border wall should be built to prevent illegal immigrants from coming into the United Statss illegally.
  • Polaris95Polaris95 138 Pts   -  
    No, definitely not. Most people coming in illegally are doing so because it is easier than legal immigration. Most of them don't even have any criminal incentive for crossing the border. Instead of building a wall to keep out drug dealers, Trump should be actively trying to stop drug use in the US. This would decrease the amount of drug dealers coming into the US, because the market would be much smaller.
  • WordsMatterWordsMatter 487 Pts   -  
    @jabudu_wouw they come by plane legally using temporary visas, then when the visa runs out they just stay here.
  • GatManGatMan 19 Pts   -  
    I believe the wall should be built, in all fairness to those that worked hard to come here legally, to those that had to go through the test to enter this country as a citizen. This is what security and a President doing his country good looks like, not the opposite. If we let in illegals that are bringing in drugs, gangs, and other harmful things to this already 'bad' society, then it'll become more of an issue. The wall is a good sign of, "You come here legally, or you'll be sent back!". Sure, there are those that say we should start with ourselves before we start outside but the wall is needed. Tough for the ones trying to escape death, tough for the ones that have family over here, oh well. This is part of the price of cracking down on illegal immigration. The country that these immigrants are running from needs to be put on the spotlight, what are they doing to make their own people want to come to another country? Put them on blast. The wall is needed.
  • joecavalryjoecavalry ( Pts   -  
    Illegal immigration should be stopped. The wall on the southern border of the U.S. could assist in eliminating illegal immigration into the United States.
    DebateIslander and a lover. 
  • VaulkVaulk 741 Pts   -  

    between 20% and 40% of them are coming by plane and overstaying Visas...that means between 60% and 80% are crossing the border on foot or by land vehicle...therefor build the wall and we'll help to eliminate the majority of the issue.
    "If there's no such thing as a question then what kind of questions do people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".

  • WordsMatterWordsMatter 487 Pts   -   edited July 2018
    @Vaulk I wasn't commenting on whether or not I think the wall is a good idea. I just saw a commenter ask about how illegal immigrants could come by plane. I was just trying to inform them and anyone else interested how they do it.

    I'm curious as to why you were so quick to assume this was an argument for the con
  • VaulkVaulk 741 Pts   -  
    We need sound effects for these posts.  "Most Illegal Immigrants are illegally immigrating for other than criminal incentives...they're illegally immigrating because doing it illegally and subsequently becoming a criminal in the process is easier than doing it legally...but criminal incentive isn't the motive even though the incentive of coming here by circumventing our laws guessed it...illegal".

    I guess in this one singular case, despite it being totally inapplicable with any other law ever...intent can justify breaking the law.
    "If there's no such thing as a question then what kind of questions do people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".

  • VaulkVaulk 741 Pts   -  

    My post was a clarification of the information you posted and doesn't in any way, shape or form contradict what you said and therefor isn't an argument...nor was it meant to be.  I'm a little lost as to what exactly you read in my post that suggested that you're making arguments for the con.  

    In any case, I'm not sure what you're talking about but cheers.
    "If there's no such thing as a question then what kind of questions do people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".

  • WordsMatterWordsMatter 487 Pts   -  
    @Vaulk it was the "therefore we should build the wall" part that made me think you were debating me. Thank you for letting me know that wasn't the case. 

    However, I do want to offer something for debate. I feel like when this topic comes up people conflate both sides of the wall argument with assumptions. Pro-wall? You must hate Hispanics. Anti-wall? You just want illegals to run wild. I think it's unfair to both sides.

    Personally I am against the wall, only because I think their are more cost effective ways to enforce the land border via technology, and I would be all for a digital wall. At the same time I recognize that their is a sweet spot of the number of illegal immigrants in the country. They are useful because they don't have the right of a citizen, no minimum wage, no labor laws. They are good for some sectors of our economy. Now I actually recognize positives in Trump cracking down on illegal immigrants. I've studied illegal immigrants workers in various developed Asian countries and I think they do it right. They enact policies and do enough raids to keep the illegal immigrants always afraid that the slightest move will get them sent away. This leads the immigrants to stay confined in their own small neighborhood and only go between work and home. The governments will occasionally go into both the neighborhood and the places of work and just deport a bunch of them. They knew they were in these places long before deporting them, and they know and will let these places populate again. The goal of this is to allow the business owners to have their cheap labor while cycling through illegal immigrants so that none get to start very long, generally just a couple years. I think a system like this would be effective here.
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 458 Pts   -  
    @aksk_19299 History has shown us that building a wall is useless.

    Anyone remember that Maginot line?

    A huge wall of fortifications to stop Germany from attacking France?

    Want to know how Germany beat France?

    They went around it!

    Want to know how illegal immigrants will do when the border wall is finished?

    They'll go around it

    Just because you built a huge fortification wall doesn't mean it'll prevent being bypassed by, oh I don't know, the sea, air, and digging underground!
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 458 Pts   -   edited July 2018
    So, building a border wall is good for America?

    anyone remember the Maginot line? 

    An impenetrable fortification wall meant to halt the German army from attacking France?

    Considered the one of the hardest walls to bypass


    Want to know how the Germans attacked France?

    They went AROUND it!

    The German invasion of France. The Maginot line is in black.

    How will illegal immigrants deal with Trumps wall?

    They'll go around it!


    By sea, air and digging underneath it! Or, if it's 30 feet high, a 35 foot tall ladder will bypass it!

    If Trump realizes how easy it will be bypassed, it will be trillions of dollars wasted
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