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The Border Wall will be the worst decision by a U.S President in history
in Immigration

24


Arguments

  • @WordsMatter

    Are you maybe a BLM supporter? 
    Zombieguy1987
  • piloteerpiloteer 509 Pts
    edited December 2018
    @CYDdharta

    People who expect the government to take hard earned money from taxpayers and do what they want with it are left wing demagogues, and UnAmerican. My money is supposed to be for me to do what I want, not for government insistence on eminent domain. I certainly do want the borders wide open, then hard working people like me won't need to pay for border control. You claim we need border control, but that's just an opinion, not a rational based objective conclusion ( which you seem to not be capable of those types arguments, so it's not surprising). Whether it's for welfare or the military or border control, those things need taxes to be stolen from hard working people. People who think that's OK, are UnAmerican. Perhaps you could do a little research on what individualism means. No blank checks for the government. My money is mine!!
    Zombieguy1987
  • @WordsMatter

    "collection of immigrants at the southern border." Who was their first lady again?" 

    Do you agree with some of the 300 sanctuary cities in the United States, giving sanctuary to some of the 11-22 illegaI immigrants who have been coming into the United States illegally for the past 30 plus years? 

    Could it maybe be said, that some of those sanctuary cities have their own varied collections of illegal immigrants living within the confines of their own communities? 
    Zombieguy1987
  • TTKDB said:
    @WordsMatter

    Are you maybe a BLM supporter? 
    Going off topic again I see...
  • @Zombieguy1987

    From you on another forum:

    • "Because people are spending their time protesting Donald Trump."

      Why are you mentioning Trump?

      What does he have to do with the theme of this forum?

      "Atheists, and how atheists talk to others"

    • TTKDB said:
      @Zombieguy1987 

      "Because people are spending their time protesting Donald Trump."

      Why are you mentioning Trump?

      What does he have to do with the theme of this forum?

      "Atheists, and how atheists talk to others"

      Why am I mentioning Trump?

      Well, like the Border Wall debate, where you go offtopic 60% of the time, at least what is relevant.

      Due to SJN's and feminazis. No-one is going to protest a church because they're too busy protesting Trump or Red Dead Redemption 2 or a youtuber."

      Look familiar? 
    Zombieguy1987
  • @TTKDB you are seriously pathetic and I feel bad for you. What is it that makes you want to go as off topic as possible to? Try and make two people look foolish through bad logic? Make yourself feel big and smart? We show you're off topic so instead of getting back on topic or trying to show that you were on topic you go even further off topic and start using ad hominems. Ad hominem - (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
    Zombieguy1987
  • piloteer said:
    @CYDdharta

    People who expect the government to take hard earned money from taxpayers and do what they want with it are left wing demagogues, and UnAmerican. My money is supposed to be for me to do what I want, not for government insistence on eminent domain. I certainly do want the borders wide open, then hard working people like me won't need to pay for border control. You claim we need border control, but that's just an opinion, not a rational based objective conclusion ( which you seem to not be capable of those types arguments, so it's not surprising). Whether it's for welfare or the military or border control, those things need taxes to be stolen from hard working people. People who think that's OK, are UnAmerican. Perhaps you could do a little research on what individualism means. No blank checks for the government. My money is mine!!

    63% of the illegals here collect from welfare programs.  Why do you want to invite left wing demagogues into our country?  They're taking your money and you want more of them to come into the country.  By your own definition you're UnAmerican. 

    Applesauce
  • Well all you need is a privately owned airstrip to land on and it's legal. If there is a group wealthy enough to afford a plane and run a business of smuggling illegals, they can probably afford to buy land out in the desert somewhere. 

    ROFL, sure, sure, and you can bring anything you like to your privately owned airstrip.  Cocaine and heroine by the kilo, people infected by small pox and polio, explosives and military hardware, it's all ok because you're landing on a privately owned airstrip, right?  Try it and see how far the state police, TSA, Border Patrol, etc. recognize your privacy rights.  "All civil, private aircraft entering the U.S. must first land at an airport of entry before continuing to their destinations, unless other arrangements are made with U.S. Customs and Border Patrol."

    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • TTKDB said:
    @Zombieguy1987

    From you on another forum:

    • "Because people are spending their time protesting Donald Trump."

      Why are you mentioning Trump?

      What does he have to do with the theme of this forum?

      "Atheists, and how atheists talk to others"

    • TTKDB said:
      @Zombieguy1987 

      "Because people are spending their time protesting Donald Trump."

      Why are you mentioning Trump?

      What does he have to do with the theme of this forum?

      "Atheists, and how atheists talk to others"

      Why am I mentioning Trump?

      Well, like the Border Wall debate, where you go offtopic 60% of the time, at least what is relevant.

      Due to SJN's and feminazis. No-one is going to protest a church because they're too busy protesting Trump or Red Dead Redemption 2 or a youtuber."

      Look familiar? 
    Aaaaaaannnnnnnnndddddddddd another time where you misinterpret what I say...

    when I was talking about Trump in the other debate, I gave you a cause as to why there are rarely people protesting religious violence. 

    The Cause: Social Justice Nazis and Feminazis protesting Trump and other unimportant issues.   

    That is relevant to the debate...

    What you talk about in the Border Wall debate:

    TTKDB said:
    @WordsMatter

    Are you maybe a BLM supporter? 

    What does that question have to do with the BORDER WALL!?

    swing and a miss again
  • Zombieguy1987 said:
    Oh Yeah, because taxpayers are willing to waste money away for something like this:

    When a simple ladder can bypass it
    Which is why I asked of your ideas to combat illegal immigration besides having open borders. The wall would not be of a height where ladders could easily provide an advantage for those crossing over.  It is common sense, again, if the wall seems to be such an absurd idea, what are "effective" alternatives to combating illegal immigration?
    Zombieguy1987CYDdhartaApplesauce
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "Americanism not Globalism, will be our credo." ~Donald Trump

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill
  • I wouldn't say it would be the worst decision by a president in our history, there have been far worse. You never know, the wall could work, it just needs to be built and maintained the right way. I do not see another solution of solving illegal immigration, and @George_Horse made a good point in his argument: 
    "There really is no border "fence", there are many gaps, and it does not stretch across the entire border."
    We need to have a complete border.
    Zombieguy1987CYDdhartaApplesauce
    “Communism is evil. Its driving forces are the deadly sins of envy and hatred.” ~Peter Drucker 

    "It's not a gun control problem, it's a cultural control problem."
    Bob Barr
  • @Zombieguy1987 instead of givin us a thumbs down, why not give your say on our arguments?
    “Communism is evil. Its driving forces are the deadly sins of envy and hatred.” ~Peter Drucker 

    "It's not a gun control problem, it's a cultural control problem."
    Bob Barr
  • @Nathaniel_B ;

    These stats:

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/22/visa-overstays-biggest-problem-illegal-immigration/

    The fact you can get a plane to fly over it...
    CYDdharta said:
    ...

    But then more people will just use a visa to bypass the wall and just overstay.

    It's a bloody miracale only 40% of illegals use a visa to get in.

    And how would Border Patrol be able to handle illegals using boats, ladders, underground tunnels and planes without  being overwhelmed 

    Um, no, the number of VIsas doesn't change.  In fact, Visas can be scrutinized more thoroughly because there would be more applicants due to fewer people being able to walk across the border.

    Border Patrol probably wouldn't handle boats, that would be the Coast Guard. Illegals don't fly in, they can't get passed airport security.  That leaves Border Patrol to deal only with people trying to use ladders and tunnels, which is a WHOLE Lot easier than tying to secure thousands of miles of open borders.  Also, there's something you seem to be forgetting in your photo; you may be able to get to the top of the wall in the photo, but how do you get down?
    When I mean to go around by flying, I don't mean on a public airplane.

    I on something like this. 



    You don't need to go through airport security when you have outside help or just find one sitting around

    Or a small boat...



    Or a tunnel



    Or a LADDER



    How can a wall stop all those AT ONCE?

    No matter how much manpower is used, the wall will be overwhelmed 
    CYDdhartaNathaniel_B

  • The Visa system is an entirely different program that needs to be overhauled.


    The fact you can get a plane to fly over it...

    Lovely, but you can't land anywhere but at an airport, so what's your point?

    Or a small boat...



    and be picked up by a larger boat



    Or a tunnel




    Hmmm, aren't those ICE agents in that picture?  Why yes, yes they are;


    A great illustration of why tunnels DON'T WORK.

    Or a LADDER



    How can a wall stop all those AT ONCE?

    No matter how much manpower is used, the wall will be overwhelmed


    They got up there, but 2 things about that;  1) There are no pregnant women in that picture (in fact there don't seem to be any women at all in that picture)  2) Now what?  How do they get down?  They don't have a ladder on THE OTHER SIDE.

    And finally, even you have to admit that this takes a lot more effort than simply walking across an unsecure border.  The optics alone will stop a lot of illegals from coming, let alone the extra effort it would take to make it into the US.
    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdharta said:

    The Visa system is an entirely different program that needs to be overhauled.


    The fact you can get a plane to fly over it...

    Lovely, but you can't land anywhere but at an airport, so what's your point?

    Or a small boat...



    and be picked up by a larger boat



    Or a tunnel




    Hmmm, aren't those ICE agents in that picture?  Why yes, yes they are;


    A great illustration of why tunnels DON'T WORK.

    Or a LADDER



    How can a wall stop all those AT ONCE?

    No matter how much manpower is used, the wall will be overwhelmed


    They got up there, but 2 things about that;  1) There are no pregnant women in that picture (in fact there don't seem to be any women at all in that picture)  2) Now what?  How do they get down?  They don't have a ladder on THE OTHER SIDE.

    And finally, even you have to admit that this takes a lot more effort than simply walking across an unsecure border.  The optics alone will stop a lot of illegals from coming, let alone the extra effort it would take to make it into the US.
    What makes you think there isn't a private runway owned by someone who helps people get in illegally for money?

    And how would the Coast Gaurd stop boats in international waters? 

    And just because one picture has ICE agents means nothing since there are A LOT of these tunnels along the border.

    What do pregnant women have to do with anything? When did I mention pregnant women?
    CYDdharta

  • What makes you think there isn't a private runway owned by someone who helps people get in illegally for money?

    There are much easier ways to donate your property to the government

    And how would the Coast Gaurd stop boats in international waters?

    Who cares about boats in international waters?  As a reminder, this is a discussion about illegals coming into the US.

    And just because one picture has ICE agents means nothing since there are A LOT of these tunnels along the border.

    There are some DRUG SMUGGLING tunnels dig by the cartels because it can pay dividends.  Not many illegals come in thru tunnels, they get caught too quickly and the tunnel gets shut down.

    What do pregnant women have to do with anything? When did I mention pregnant women?

    Anchor babies are a big part of the problem.  You didn't mention them, I did.  You ignored me, so I thought I ask again.  How about an answer.
    Zombieguy1987
  • @Zombieguy1987

    Border math:

    Who is more at fault for how the illegaI immigrants have been coming into the United States?

    The voters, who voted for this or that political representative to become the POTUS? 

    The political representatives who, have states that border along Mexico? 

    The sanctuary cities, that give sanctuary to some of the 11-22 million Illegal immigrants? 

    Those businesses, that allegedly utilize the illegal immigrants to do work for them? (When I believe, it's against the law to utilize the illegal immigrants by having them working for a business to begin with? 

    Or are the Illegal immigrants, the ones who are at fault for breaking the US laws by trespassing into the United States illegally? 

    So when it comes to the border wall, who is the most responsible for how things have been playing out there for the last 30 plus years?
    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdharta said:

    What makes you think there isn't a private runway owned by someone who helps people get in illegally for money?

    There are much easier ways to donate your property to the government

    And how would the Coast Gaurd stop boats in international waters?

    Who cares about boats in international waters?  As a reminder, this is a discussion about illegals coming into the US.

    And just because one picture has ICE agents means nothing since there are A LOT of these tunnels along the border.

    There are some DRUG SMUGGLING tunnels dig by the cartels because it can pay dividends.  Not many illegals come in thru tunnels, they get caught too quickly and the tunnel gets shut down.

    What do pregnant women have to do with anything? When did I mention pregnant women?

    Anchor babies are a big part of the problem.  You didn't mention them, I did.  You ignored me, so I thought I ask again.  How about an answer.
    "Who cares about boats in international waters?"

    Um the COAST GUARD! if they want to stop illegal immigration by sea, they can't enter international waters to stop illegals, as they're only allowed to patrol in American waters

    "Not many illegals come in thru tunnels, they get caught too quickly and the tunnel gets shut down"

    Do you have proof of that?

    "Anchor babies are a big part of the problem.  You didn't mention them, I did.  You ignored me, so I thought I ask again.  How about an answer."

    I don't even know what the hell an anchor baby is
    CYDdharta

  • Um the COAST GUARD! if they want to stop illegal immigration by sea, they can't enter international waters to stop illegals, as they're only allowed to patrol in American waters

    So not even the Coast Guard cares about boats in international waters.  What point are you trying to make?


    Do you have proof of that?

    Do you have any proof that a lot of illegals come in thru tunnels?

    I don't even know what the hell an anchor baby is

    You don't even know what the problem is. 

    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdharta said:

    Um the COAST GUARD! if they want to stop illegal immigration by sea, they can't enter international waters to stop illegals, as they're only allowed to patrol in American waters

    So not even the Coast Guard cares about boats in international waters.  What point are you trying to make?


    Do you have proof of that?

    Do you have any proof that a lot of illegals come in thru tunnels?

    I don't even know what the hell an anchor baby is

    You don't even know what the problem is. 


    "So not even the Coast Guard cares about boats in international waters.  What point are you trying to make?"

    If the wall is placed, and if flying, climbing and going underneath don't work, the immigrants will realize that the Coast Guard, legally, cannot get them in international waters, and after a while, more immigrants will do the same and then it's an entirely new issue

    "Do you have any proof that a lot of illegals come in thru tunnels?"

    Gee
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/undocumented-immigrants-detained-hidden-tunnel_us_59a203dfe4b06d67e3380e2f
    I
    https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-border-tunnels-20150501-htmlstory.html
    Sure
    https://www.voanews.com/a/tunnels-at-us-mexico-border-show-smugglers-deep-commitment/3869064.html
    Do (This one has solar panels and a bloody railway)
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/advanced-mexico-us-drug-tunnel-had-solar-panels-ventilation-rail-system

    Oh, and remember when you asked 

    "2) Now what?  How do they get down?  They don't have a ladder on THE OTHER SIDE."

    Yeah, just use another ladder...

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article150214962.html
    CYDdharta

  • If the wall is placed, and if flying, climbing and going underneath don't work, the immigrants will realize that the Coast Guard, legally, cannot get them in international waters, and after a while, more immigrants will do the same and then it's an entirely new issue

    Once again, WHO CARES IF THEY'RE IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS???  As long as they stay out there, they aren't our problem.  You STILL haven't made a cogent point.

    Gee
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/undocumented-immigrants-detained-hidden-tunnel_us_59a203dfe4b06d67e3380e2f
    I
    https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-border-tunnels-20150501-htmlstory.html
    Sure
    https://www.voanews.com/a/tunnels-at-us-mexico-border-show-smugglers-deep-commitment/3869064.html
    Do (This one has solar panels and a bloody railway)
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/advanced-mexico-us-drug-tunnel-had-solar-panels-ventilation-rail-system

    You think 30 illegals are significant?  Your links say they're almost entirely drug tunnels that are very rarely used to get illegals into the country.

    Oh, and remember when you asked 

    "2) Now what?  How do they get down?  They don't have a ladder on THE OTHER SIDE."

    Yeah, just use another ladder...

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article150214962.html

    So they have to coordinate with people inside the US; tell them exactly where they'll come across and when and hope their contact is really willing to risk a prison sentence to help them before they are inevitably found by Border Patrol standing on top of the wall.  Sounds a lot harder than walking across an unsecure border.
    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdharta said:

    If the wall is placed, and if flying, climbing and going underneath don't work, the immigrants will realize that the Coast Guard, legally, cannot get them in international waters, and after a while, more immigrants will do the same and then it's an entirely new issue

    Once again, WHO CARES IF THEY'RE IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS???  As long as they stay out there, they aren't our problem.  You STILL haven't made a cogent point.

    Gee
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/undocumented-immigrants-detained-hidden-tunnel_us_59a203dfe4b06d67e3380e2f
    I
    https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-border-tunnels-20150501-htmlstory.html
    Sure
    https://www.voanews.com/a/tunnels-at-us-mexico-border-show-smugglers-deep-commitment/3869064.html
    Do (This one has solar panels and a bloody railway)
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/advanced-mexico-us-drug-tunnel-had-solar-panels-ventilation-rail-system

    You think 30 illegals are significant?  Your links say they're almost entirely drug tunnels that are very rarely used to get illegals into the country.

    Oh, and remember when you asked 

    "2) Now what?  How do they get down?  They don't have a ladder on THE OTHER SIDE."

    Yeah, just use another ladder...

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article150214962.html

    So they have to coordinate with people inside the US; tell them exactly where they'll come across and when and hope their contact is really willing to risk a prison sentence to help them before they are inevitably found by Border Patrol standing on top of the wall.  Sounds a lot harder than walking across an unsecure border.
    You think 30 illegals are significant?  Your links say they're almost entirely drug tunnels that are very rarely used to get illegals into the country.

    People still use drug tunnels...

    Once again, WHO CARES IF THEY'RE IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS???  As long as they stay out there, they aren't our problem.  You STILL haven't made a cogent point

    You're missing the point.

    If they can get around the wall via international waters, where the U.S government can't do anything. at first, it may seem small, but soon multiple boats of immigrants will go around the wall and land in the sanctuary cities on the coast.


    And like I said. It would become an even bigger issue

    So they have to coordinate with people inside the US; tell them exactly where they'll come across and when and hope their contact is really willing to risk a prison sentence to help them before they are inevitably found by Border Patrol standing on top of the wall.  Sounds a lot harder than walking across an unsecure border.

    Regardless, how would a wall stop that?
    CYDdharta
  • @Zombieguy1987

    How do you view this decision by a US President? 

    "Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

    The Immigration Reform and Control Act(IRCA), Pub.L. 99–603, 100 Stat. 3445, enacted November 6, 1986, also known as the Simpson–Mazzoli Act or the Reagan Amnesty,[1] signed into law by Ronald Reagan on November 6, 1986, is an Act of Congresswhich reformed United States immigration law. The Act[2]

    • required employers to attest to their employees' immigration status;
    • made it illegal to hire or recruit illegal immigrants knowingly;
    • legalized certain seasonal agricultural undocumented immigrants, and;
    • legalized undocumented immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously with the penalty of a fine, back taxes due, and admission of guilt; candidates were required to prove that they were not guilty of crimes, that they were in the country before January 1, 1982, and that they possessed at least a minimal knowledge about U.S. history, government, and the English language.
    Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986"
    Zombieguy1987

  • You think 30 illegals are significant?  Your links say they're almost entirely drug tunnels that are very rarely used to get illegals into the country.

    People still use drug tunnels...

    People use drug tunnels to bring in drugs.  It's not worth the effort to sneak in illegals through tunnels, they aren't worth as much as drugs.

    Once again, WHO CARES IF THEY'RE IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS???  As long as they stay out there, they aren't our problem.  You STILL haven't made a cogent point

    You're missing the point.

    If they can get around the wall via international waters, where the U.S government can't do anything. at first, it may seem small, but soon multiple boats of immigrants will go around the wall and land in the sanctuary cities on the coast.


    And like I said. It would become an even bigger issue

    Sanctuary cities on the coast aren't in international waters.  The coast guard will pick them up.  It's much easier to pick up 20 people in a boat than 20 people crossing a 30 mile stretch of unsecured border.

    So they have to coordinate with people inside the US; tell them exactly where they'll come across and when and hope their contact is really willing to risk a prison sentence to help them before they are inevitably found by Border Patrol standing on top of the wall.  Sounds a lot harder than walking across an unsecure border.

    Regardless, how would a wall stop that?

    The wall doesn't have to be 100% successful to be worth every penny spent on it's erection.
    Zombieguy1987
  • @CYDdharta

    You and I have discussed this before. The study you've posted if false. The CATO institute did another study that refuted all the findings from the heritage foundation study. What you just posted is someone citing the false study from the heritage foundation. The Native White and Asian population use more government benefits than any other populations, and that's not just based on their size, a higher percentage of them are using welfare benefits. https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/immigration-welfare-state-immigrant-native-use-rates

    Do you have cognitive issues? If you're concerned about immigrants using welfare, then just cut their welfare benefits! If you think it costs to much for them to receive welfare, then why do you support the idea of paying for a wall that will increase taxes even more? You're idea of stopping welfare abuse is by making us pay more in taxes to build a wall that won't stop immigrants from coming in, it will only make less of them get in. You should know to stop forcing  your q-tips in your ear when you get resistance! Why won't you just admit that you don't like immigrants because they're Brown? If I were to say that immigrants should be cut off from all welfare benefits, I get the feeling that you still would want a wall built. Why? I think we all know the  obvious answer. Do you think America is for White people only? Are you willing to see America go bankrupt just for the sake of keeping America White? That's Shameful!!!!!!
    Zombieguy1987CYDdharta
  • piloteer said:
    @CYDdharta

    You and I have discussed this before. The study you've posted if false. The CATO institute did another study that refuted all the findings from the heritage foundation study. What you just posted is someone citing the false study from the heritage foundation. The Native White and Asian population use more government benefits than any other populations, and that's not just based on their size, a higher percentage of them are using welfare benefits. https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/immigration-welfare-state-immigrant-native-use-rates

    Do you have cognitive issues? If you're concerned about immigrants using welfare, then just cut their welfare benefits! If you think it costs to much for them to receive welfare, then why do you support the idea of paying for a wall that will increase taxes even more? You're idea of stopping welfare abuse is by making us pay more in taxes to build a wall that won't stop immigrants from coming in, it will only make less of them get in. You should know to stop forcing  your q-tips in your ear when you get resistance! Why won't you just admit that you don't like immigrants because they're Brown? If I were to say that immigrants should be cut off from all welfare benefits, I get the feeling that you still would want a wall built. Why? I think we all know the  obvious answer. Do you think America is for White people only? Are you willing to see America go bankrupt just for the sake of keeping America White? That's Shameful!!!!!!

    You assume soooo much, young one, and you know what they say about making assumptions, right?  Or maybe you're just too young to have heard or understood.  That wasn't based on a heritage study, and I wouldn't believe anything pro-illegal CATO has to say on the subject anyway.  The CATO study was wrong, and I point that out already.

    I'm all for cutting welfare to illegals.  Cutting the number of illegals is much better, but that's a good secondary step to take.  Unfortunately you seem to be too young to understand politics.  It's a shame, if you were older and could grasp such things you would know that there is no way politicians are going to cut off any more welfare benefits to illegals, so that's a complete non-starter.  We need solutions that actually have a chance of passing and working, like building the wall, which will quickly pay for itself.  You haven't matured to the point of being able to make an intelligent argument, so please pass this to whoever was erroneously coaching you, they have earned it;


    Zombieguy1987
  • @Zombieguy1987

    You view this law passed by former President Ronald Reagan as irrelevant?

    "Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

    The Immigration Reform and Control Act(IRCA), Pub.L. 99–603, 100 Stat. 3445, enacted November 6, 1986, also known as the Simpson–Mazzoli Act or the Reagan Amnesty,[1] signed into law by Ronald Reagan on November 6, 1986, is an Act of Congresswhich reformed United States immigration law. The Act[2] 

    • required employers to attest to their employees' immigration status;
    • made it illegal to hire or recruit illegal immigrants knowingly;
    • legalized certain seasonal agricultural undocumented immigrants, and;
    • legalized undocumented immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously with the penalty of a fine, back taxes due, and admission of guilt; candidates were required to prove that they were not guilty of crimes, that they were in the country before January 1, 1982, and that they possessed at least a minimal knowledge about U.S. history, government, and the English language.
    Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986" 
    Zombieguy1987CYDdharta
  • @Zombieguy1987

    Why the lack of a debateable response other then your (!) irrelevant response?)

    Do you have a disagreement with a former president? 

  • TTKDB said:
    @Zombieguy1987

    Why the lack of a debateable response other then your (!) irrelevant response?)

    Do you have a disagreement with a former president? 

    You keep using the same irrelevant arguement, and since you keep doing that, there is no good reason to kepp saying "oh look, another irrelevant arguement by TTKDB"
    CYDdharta
  • @Zombieguy1987

    "The Border Wall will be the worst decision by a U.S President in history"

    Why do you get to play word games with any POTUS of the United States, when it comes to the border wall?

    So tell me "President Zombieguy1987"

    How are you going to fix the "Border wall?"

    Let's see your own political mind and your own standards at play? 

    Let's hear your speech? 
    Zombieguy1987CYDdharta
  • @Zombieguy1987

    You have to have more of a stance than this response right?

    "I don't understand how people think a border wall will work. There are better ways to stop illegal immigration.

    Don't beleive me? 



    A cheap ladder would overpower a huge border wall and make the U.S the laughstock of the world."

    So what is your plan?

    You created this forum, let's hear your strategy? 

    Other than your use of the (!) symbol? 

  • For that last picture, thats the problem with the current fence, its too short enabling them to get over easily. For the tunnel picture, they can always be filled up. By boat is something else, and the plane method? I would say it isn't very common. Look at this picture: 

    Does that look good to you? This is a problem, like I said from before, we need a COMPLETE border, all those other methods of illegal immigration you mentioned previously are not commonly occurring. 
    Zombieguy1987CYDdharta
    “Communism is evil. Its driving forces are the deadly sins of envy and hatred.” ~Peter Drucker 

    "It's not a gun control problem, it's a cultural control problem."
    Bob Barr

  • For that last picture, thats the problem with the current fence, its too short enabling them to get over easily. For the tunnel picture, they can always be filled up. By boat is something else, and the plane method? I would say it isn't very common. Look at this picture: 

    Does that look good to you? This is a problem, like I said from before, we need a COMPLETE border, all those other methods of illegal immigration you mentioned previously are not commonly occurring. 
    But at what cost? Once the wall is built, the immigrants will come in by other means, and then the wall is just wasted money


  • https://www-watchdog-org.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.watchdog.org/national/taxpayer-cost-for-illegal-immigrants-giving-birth-in-u-s/article_cb8ea0e2-d873-11e8-8aa0-2f45f29d051e.amp.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.watchdog.org/national/taxpayer-cost-for-illegal-immigrants-giving-birth-in-u-s/article_cb8ea0e2-d873-11e8-8aa0-2f45f29d051e.html 

    Some excerpts from the article:

    "Taxpayer cost for illegal immigrants giving birth in U.S. tops $4 billion annually


    A new report published by the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) details the number of likely births to illegal immigrants nationally, births by state and large metropolitan areas, and the more than $4 billion cost to taxpayers.

    According to CIS’ best estimate, the number of births by illegal immigrants in the U.S. accounted for 7.5 percent (297,000) of the total number of births overall per year. The estimate of 297,000 is more than total births in any state other than California and Texas. The number is also larger than the total number of births in 16 states and the District of Columbia combined, the report notes.

    The 297,000 estimated births are paid for by taxpayers through Medicaid, which covers the cost of delivery and/or post-partum care under the "pregnancy care" provision administered by the states. Based on its analysis, the cost to taxpayers is, at a minimum, slightly more than $4 billion a year.  

    “Births to Legal and Illegal Immigrants in the U.S.,” written by Steven Camarota, Karen Zeigler, and Jason Richwine, analyzes immigrant mothers’ births in the U.S. based on data produced by the Census Bureau's American Community Survey (ACS) to provide a comprehensive analysis.

    “One of the most obvious and enduring impacts of immigration occurs through immigrants' children … [in shaping] the political, economic, and cultural life in the receiving society,” they wrote.

    Examining immigrant births is a way to measure the scale of immigration and its impact to the U.S. Because the U.S. automatically awards citizenship to everyone born on U.S. soil, including those born to temporary visitors or illegal immigrants, “the overwhelming majority of these children will stay in the United States,” they said.

    The number of illegal immigrants whose births were covered by Medicaid, CIS reports, is about 11.2 percent based on the data it analyzed. The public-use data shows that for mothers currently on Medicaid, 99 percent of their children under the age of one are also on Medicaid.

    The federal government and states do not report the amount that Medicaid spends per birth on mother and child, CIS notes. In order to estimate costs to taxpayers, CIS pointed to data produced by the Guttmacher Institute. In 2010, the Guttmacher Institute estimated that it cost $12,777 for pre-natal, delivery, post-partum, and infant care in the first 12 months. Adjusting to 2014 dollars, the middle year of the ACS data that CIS used for this report increases that amount to $13,596.

    CIS used the $13,596-per-birth calculation to reach the $4 billion number.

    Once born in the U.S., the child and his or her mother is eligible for Medicaid, Social Security, food stamps, and other federal benefits. One issue raised by budget reform proponents was a loophole that exists pertaining to Social Security benefits.

    Under the current immigration system, immigrants can receive temporary Social Security Numbers (SSN) as students or as foreign workers. CIS notes that after they drop out of legal status, little to nothing is done about their continued use of SSNs to receive taxpayer-funded government benefits."

    Here's an idea for the roadways coming from Mexico and into the United States, pull a TOLL on those roadways.

    That's one way to help fund the border wall, and border security.


  • Another Taxation and revenue idea, place a tax on sanctuary cities, if you have illegaI immigrants getting sanctuary in those cities, then tax that city with an illegal immigrant tax? 


    Zombieguy1987
  • TTKDB said:
    Another Taxation and revenue idea, place a tax on sanctuary cities, if you have illegaI immigrants getting sanctuary in those cities, then tax that city with an illegal immigrant tax? 


    And what makes you think that would work?
  • @Zombieguy1987

    "And what makes you think that would work?"

    Why wouldn't it work? What about that idea, makes you question it? 

    Zombieguy1987
  • @Zombieguy1987

    What did you think about the previously mentioned article, and this headline? 

    ticle:

    "Taxpayer cost for illegal immigrants giving birth in U.S. tops $4 billion annually



    Zombieguy1987
  • TTKDB said:
    @Zombieguy1987

    "And what makes you think that would work?"

    Why wouldn't it work? What about that idea, makes you question it? 

    Oh, i don't know...

    Maybe the SJW's living there would make it seem like the U.S is a dictatorship trying to round up the illegals and genocide them...

    And since alot of people in those cities are liberal and/or SJW. They will believe it's all true and then rise up and start a civil war...

    And then millions would die...

    And the more money would be wasted...

    Simply because Trump did something stupid
  • Zombieguy1987
  • @Zombieguy1987 

    Social Justice Warriors?

    "Maybe the SJW's living there would make it seem like the U.S is a dictatorship trying to round up the illegals and genocide them...

    (The United States, isn't a dictatorship. It's a country of laws.

    And the 11-22 million illegal immigrants who came to the United States illegally over the last 30 plus years, they broke the law, along with some of the other laws.)

    And since alot of people in those cities are liberal and/or SJW. They will believe it's all true and then rise up and start a civil war."

    So in a sense, some of the liberals/ Social Justice Warriors, are placing the 11-22 million illegal immigrants in the 300 sanctuary cities, above the safety of the rest society/ public?

    Who did, or has given some of the liberals/ Socialist Justice Warriors to do what they want, and how they want?

    Who made them the chaperones to the illegal immigrants?  

    @Zombieguy1987

    "And then millions would die...

    And the more money would be wasted...

    Simply because Trump did something stupid."

    What did you get the above statements from? 




    Zombieguy1987
  • "And then millions would die...

    And the more money would be wasted...

    Simply because Trump did something stupid."

    What did you get the above statements from? 

    Common sense when it comes to SJNs
  • @Zombieguy1987

    What about these other points of view?

    (The United States, isn't a dictatorship. It's a country of laws.

    And the 11-22 million illegal immigrants who came to the United States illegally over the last 30 plus years, they broke the law, along with some of the other laws.)

    "And since alot of people in those cities are liberal and/or SJW. They will believe it's all true and then rise up and start a civil war."

    (Why does the above from you, sound like paronia?)

    So in a sense, some of the liberals/ Social Justice Warriors, are placing the 11-22 million illegal immigrants in the 300 sanctuary cities, above the safety of the rest society/ public?

    Who did, or has given some of the liberals/ Socialist Justice Warriors to do what they want, and how they want?

    Who made them the chaperones to the illegal immigrants?   


    Zombieguy1987
  • @Zombieguy1987

    And the below as well, comes across as a bit of paranoia? 

    "And then millions would die...

    And the more money would be wasted...

    Simply because Trump did something stupid."

    What did you get the above statements from? 

    Common sense when it comes to SJNs"
  • Let's kind of get back on track here.  If barriers don't work, then why did so many before Trump want fences and other barriers, including, but not limited to, one Barrack Hussain Obama?  Not even Trump is saying that all is needed is a wall.  Imo there are logical steps to fix a problem.  In this case you must stop the most people coming across the border illegally by land.  Once you get that under control you fine tune it by adding electronic survelances, patrols etc.  With the most recent stats he's given, the invasion that was mostly turned away, it seems pretty clear that walls do work.  No one is claiming they will work 100%, but they do work, regardless if you think there are better alternatives and ways, or it's a waste of money.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • Let's kind of get back on track here.  If barriers don't work, then why did so many before Trump want fences and other barriers, including, but not limited to, one Barrack Hussain Obama?  Not even Trump is saying that all is needed is a wall.  Imo there are logical steps to fix a problem.  In this case you must stop the most people coming across the border illegally by land.  Once you get that under control you fine tune it by adding electronic survelances, patrols etc.  With the most recent stats he's given, the invasion that was mostly turned away, it seems pretty clear that walls do work.  No one is claiming they will work 100%, but they do work, regardless if you think there are better alternatives and ways, or it's a waste of money.
    What past presidents wanted was MORE fencing! 

    Not a giant wall like that video showed because they knew the USA doesn’t have the resources or money to make the Great Wall of America 
    CYDdharta
  • TTKDB said:
    @Zombieguy1987

    And the below as well, comes across as a bit of paranoia? 

    "And then millions would die...

    And the more money would be wasted...

    Simply because Trump did something stupid."

    What did you get the above statements from? 

    Common sense when it comes to SJNs"
    The news when it comes to the wall and SJWS from California (Where most of the sanctuary cities are) and many of them would “resist” Trump if he built the wall
  • @Zombieguy1987

    How about some reference material from the news in CA that you're elaborating on?

    "The news when it comes to the wall and SJWS from California (Where most of the sanctuary cities are) and many of them would “resist” Trump if he built the wall"

    I wonder how some of the other citizens/ public maybe feel about the illegal immigrants getting sanctuary when the Illegal immigrants have broken the law to come into the United States illegally?

    I wonder, if in those sanctuary cities, if the public has been interviewed to get the publics side of the story, in regards to the illegal immigrants being given sanctuary like that?


    Zombieguy1987
  • @Zombieguy1987


    "What past presidents wanted was MORE fencing! 

    Not a giant wall like that video showed because they knew the USA doesn’t have the resources or money to make the Great Wall of America"

    The border wall, in a matter of speaking, seems to be a past due idea, some might say? 

    You know what, that would make a great POLL question, a national poll at that?

    To citizens in the United States, who are here legally:

    How would you feel about helping to help fund the border wall, and build it up more?

    And if there are US citizens, who oppose border wall funding, then those citizens, don't have to participate.

    It wouldn't be a difficult poll to create, or to participate in, would it? 


    Zombieguy1987
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 241 Pts
    edited December 2018
    @Zombieguy1987

    which to you think is more of an effective barrier a fence or a big wall?  I think the recent events answer that unless you have some evidence that not even the Democrats have, as they haven't challenged or refuted the claims already made.
    if this is something you disagree with please explain, but with regards to my first and very simple question, nothing added will be considered by me as it is off topic atm.  If we agree we can move on.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
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