The Border Wall will be the worst decision by a U.S President in history

TTKDB

Google these words:

California news media outlets/ social justice warriors, and see what shows up?

About 6,530,000 results appear.

Here's 3 of the headers that appeared: 

"California Schools Pushing Racist, LGBT, SJW Agenda on Children"

"Militant snowflake: new insignia for social justice warrior"

"NY Times' Bari Warns 'Social Justice Warriors' Are Taking Over"

Applesauce

Walls of Separation

http://hir.harvard.edu/article/?a=14542

From 7 to 77: There's been an explosion in building border walls since World War II

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/05/24/border-walls-berlin-wall-donald-trump-wall/553250002/

can we all agree on that they do work?  just on that alone, don't add expense or anything else, and for something to work doesn't mean it needs to be 100% so let's not get pedantic about it either.  very simple question, do you agree that they do work?

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

Are you maybe in a sense, a social justice warrior, in regards to the border wall? 

Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

Are you maybe in a sense, a social justice warrior, in regards to the border wall? 

um no...

In fact, I'm an anti-SJW

WordsMatter

Why not just crowd fund the wall?

Zombieguy1987

WordsMatter said:

Why not just crowd fund the wall?

Because there are smart people who know that the wall is a waste of money, time and resources that could be spent on more useful things 

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

@WordsMatter

https://amp-washingtontimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/18/inside-the-beltway-200-gofundme-sites-to-pay-for-b/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/18/inside-the-beltway-200-gofundme-sites-to-pay-for-b/ 

"It's a crowd: 200 GoFundMe sites trying to raise money for Trump's border wall

Building a new border wall between the U.S. and Mexico sparks much argument and analysis. Take, for example, the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which compared the total cost of the wall — which the organization placed at $25 billion — to the overall cost of caring for or managing immigrants living in America illegally.

“Securing the southern border is a sound fiscal investment. The overall construction and annual maintenance costs pale when compared to the $113 billion FAIR estimates illegal immigration costs American taxpayers. In fact, if the project only results in a 5 percent reduction in the annual cost of illegal immigration to American taxpayers, and construction and maintenance costs reach the most expensive estimates, it would pay for itself after only six years,” the organization said in its comprehensive study."

Some reference material for the conversation.

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

Why the thumbs down? 

Do you have a counter argument for those 200 GoFundMe sites? 

Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

Why the thumbs down? 

Do you have a counter argument for those 200 GoFundMe sites? 

It’s going to be a waste of money and resources 

Applesauce

Zombieguy1987 said:

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

Why the thumbs down? 

Do you have a counter argument for those 200 GoFundMe sites? 

It’s going to be a waste of money and resources 
"Because there are smart people who know that the wall is a waste of money, time and resources that could be spent on more useful things "

You would tell people what to do with their own money?  that sounds very authoritarian.  I may agree it's a waste but it's their choice to waste their money, as it is to waste my money on whatever I wish.  Your statement is disturbing to me.  Perhaps you didn't mean to make it sound as you did?

Zombieguy1987

Applesauce said:

Zombieguy1987 said:

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

Why the thumbs down? 

Do you have a counter argument for those 200 GoFundMe sites? 

It’s going to be a waste of money and resources 
"Because there are smart people who know that the wall is a waste of money, time and resources that could be spent on more useful things "

You would tell people what to do with their own money?  that sounds very authoritarian.  I may agree it's a waste but it's their choice to waste their money, as it is to waste my money on whatever I wish.  Your statement is disturbing to me.  Perhaps you didn't mean to make it sound as you did?

I wouldn't tell people what to do with their money. What i'm saying is... well, it's a waste that couldv'e instead been used for something more useful

Applesauce

Zombieguy1987 said:

Applesauce said:

Zombieguy1987 said:

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

Why the thumbs down? 

Do you have a counter argument for those 200 GoFundMe sites? 

It’s going to be a waste of money and resources 
"Because there are smart people who know that the wall is a waste of money, time and resources that could be spent on more useful things "

You would tell people what to do with their own money?  that sounds very authoritarian.  I may agree it's a waste but it's their choice to waste their money, as it is to waste my money on whatever I wish.  Your statement is disturbing to me.  Perhaps you didn't mean to make it sound as you did?

I wouldn't tell people what to do with their money. What i'm saying is... well, it's a waste that couldv'e instead been used for something more useful

fair enough

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

Some excerpts from this GoFundMe page:

"This campaign is trending!

We The People Will Fund The Wall

$1,167,274 of $1.0B goal

Raised by 19,282 people in 2 days"

I understand your position Zombieguy1987.

But it would appear that 19,282 people view the funding of the border wall, differently than from how others may view the border wall, with their own individual differences? 

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

How is the sharing of that GoFundMe page, and the excerpts from it, Irrelevant? 

midopreal

considering the US has limited the funds of the coast guard which has much more area to patrol, planes, And over staying visa yeah this is the equivalent of putting your finger in a leaking dam. It is just a $5 billion dollar monument.

midopreal

Float planes work too that land on water. It is how they used to smuggle drugs in with boats waiting. @WordsMatter

Applesauce

midopreal said:

Float planes work too that land on water. It is how they used to smuggle drugs in with boats waiting. @WordsMatter

there is WAY more profit in drugs than smuggling people, the cartels already have the money and planes.  The cost of a plane especially a float plane is probably far more than you could recoup by smuggling poor people wouldn't you think?  Where are the float planes bring people ashore?  Do you have any articles where this is a real thing, I mean sure it probably happened but imo it would be extremely rare.  Air traffic is highly monitored.

Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

How is the sharing of that GoFundMe page, and the excerpts from it, Irrelevant? 

Trying to click disagree on a phone sometimes results in it saying irrelevant because misclick

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

Why did the sharing of that GoFundMe page, and the excerpts from it, earn a thumbs down from you? 

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

In regards to the video between Trump, Schumer, and Pelosi, who point of view did you agree with most? 

Of those three individual political representatives, who among them individually speaks for you? 

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987


https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-does-us-spend-its-foreign-aid ;

Some excerpts from the article: 

"How Does the U.S. Spend Its Foreign Aid?

With President Trump advocating for deep cuts to U.S. foreign aid, debate has renewed over the role of foreign assistance funds in boosting growth, promoting democracy, and saving lives.

Backgrounder by James McBride

Last updated October 1, 2018

     

Introduction

President Donald J. Trump has repeatedly called for deep cuts to foreign assistance programs, raising pointed questions about the role the United States should play around the world.

There has long been broad bipartisan agreement on the moral and strategic significance of foreign aid. Aid levels rose sharply after the 9/11 attacks, with policymakers seeing global economic development as a way to promote U.S. national security.

Though aid remains a small percentage of the overall U.S. budget, some politicians and economists have criticized the spending as ineffective. Others have urged the United States to expand its international aid commitments."

The above subject about foreign aid, when it comes to how tax payer dollars are being utilized abroad, many have expressed, instead of sending the tax payers dollars overseas, why not maybe focus more on the issues that are ongoing in the United States? 

300 sanctuary cities on one hand, and the 200 GoFundMe pages dedicated to getting voluntarily donated funds to help with the border wall on the other hand? 

The above, paints quite a  perspective, on how tax payer dollars are used for this and that doesn't it? 

CYDdharta

midopreal said:

considering the US has limited the funds of the coast guard which has much more area to patrol, planes, And over staying visa yeah this is the equivalent of putting your finger in a leaking dam. It is just a $5 billion dollar monument.

How limited are the funds really?  We just found $10 billion, twice as much as the administration was looking for, for aid to "promote better security conditions and job opportunities as part of a regional plan to allow Central Americans and Mexicans to remain in their countries and not have to emigrate".  Now THAT'S a waste of money. 

Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

Why did the sharing of that GoFundMe page, and the excerpts from it, earn a thumbs down from you? 

Because these people are just wasting their money on a useless project by trump 

Zombieguy1987

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/trump-wall-mexico-problems-immigration-214837

http://cmsny.org/border-wall-will-not-solve-immigration-problems/

WordsMatter

Applesauce said: there is WAY more profit in drugs than smuggling people, the cartels already have the money and planes.  The cost of a plane especially a float plane is probably far more than you could recoup by smuggling poor people wouldn't you think?  Where are the float planes bring people ashore?  Do you have any articles where this is a real thing, I mean sure it probably happened but imo it would be extremely rare.  Air traffic is highly monitored.

You use the poor people to smuggle the drugs as they cross the border. Most likely won't do it in a plane, but cartels will give some the supplies to get over the border as well as a good route to take, in exchange for them smuggling the drugs over and giving them to their contacts in America. They way the cartels don't risk their own members getting caught.

WordsMatter

@CYDdharta yet Trump signed off on that $10 billion and didn't even attempt to threaten a government shutdown over it. Why is that?

CYDdharta

WordsMatter said:

@CYDdharta yet Trump signed off on that $10 billion and didn't even attempt to threaten a government shutdown over it. Why is that?

No, Trump never signed off on anything, the State Dept came up with the money.  Nothing was given to him to sign.

TTKDB

@WordsMatter
@CYDdharta

As of 1:22pm, on the news, apparently the current POTUS has decided to not sign the spending bill?

CYDdharta

Latest - "The House is going to try to pass a $5 billion dollar amendment for a border wall in the existing CR passed by the Senate yesterday. If it passes the House, the Senate must agree again. If it doesn’t pass both chambers, Trump has indicated a shutdown"

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

"Because these people are just wasting their money on a useless project by trump."

Have you maybe gone to the GoFundMe page that I shared with you, and you left the same above statement on that GoFundMe web page as well? 

And if you haven't told all of the 19,282 people on that GoFundMe page, the same thing: 

"Because these people are just wasting their money on a useless project by trump"

What are you waiting on?

They worked for their own money, and donated it to a cause that they apparently see as a good one? 

So I'm guessing that they may disagree with your view, of them in regards to how they spent their money? 

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

Asking you these questions again:

In regards to the video between Trump, Schumer, and Pelosi, who's point of view did you agree with most? 

Of those three individual political representatives, who among them individually speaks for you?  

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

These questions aren't irrelevant:

In regards to the video between Trump, Schumer, and Pelosi, who's point of view did you agree with most? 

Of those three individual political representatives, who among them individually speaks for you?  

They are within the theme of this forum.

SilverishGoldNova

Trump might as well build a tower out of megablocks. 

Zombieguy1987

SilverishGoldNova said:

Trump might as well build a tower out of megablocks. 

No, it should be lego bricks, so when the wall is destoryed, the immigrants wouldn't want to continue because they would suffer a lot of pain from stepping on what is spikes at that point

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

Are you ok with some of the illegal immigrants coming into the United States illegally?

Or are you OK with, the security of the country maybe being compromised by some of the individuals who come into the country illegally? 

If you would prefer a non border wall stance, then how are you going to deter them from coming into the country from the border itself? 

Maybe bringing illegal drugs with them?

Again, how are you going to deter the illegaI drugs from coming into the country from the border itself? 

Or maybe they are helping to bring other illegaI immigrants into the country? 

Again, how are you going to deter them from bringing the other illegaI immigrants into the country? 

Breaking the various laws of the United States?

By coming into the country illegally for one?

Coming into the country illegally, and hurting, maiming, or doing worse to the millions of the citizens who are here legally? 

Who come into the country illegally, and get sanctuary from a sanctuary city?

Do you maybe live in a sanctuary city? 

Might you maybe volunteer to go down to the border, and maybe volunteer to assist the border patrol at the border wall itself, to help keep some of the Illegal immigrants and the Illegal drugs from coming into the same country that you reside in yourself? 

Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

Are you ok with some of the illegal immigrants coming into the United States illegally?

Or are you OK with, the security of the country maybe being compromised by some of the individuals who come into the country illegally? 

If you would prefer a non border wall stance, then how are you going to deter them from coming into the country from the border itself? 

Maybe bringing illegal drugs with them?

Again, how are you going to deter the illegaI drugs from coming into the country from the border itself? 

Or maybe they are helping to bring other illegaI immigrants into the country? 

Again, how are you going to deter them from bringing the other illegaI immigrants into the country? 

Breaking the various laws of the United States?

By coming into the country illegally for one?

Coming into the country illegally, and hurting, maiming, or doing worse to the millions of the citizens who are here legally? 

Who come into the country illegally, and get sanctuary from a sanctuary city?

Do you maybe live in a sanctuary city? 

Might you maybe volunteer to go down to the border, and maybe volunteer to assist the border patrol at the border wall itself, to help keep some of the Illegal immigrants and the Illegal drugs from coming into the same country that you reside in yourself? 

No, I'm not fine with illegal immigrants coming into the country, but using a wall WILL NOT WORK!

Even with the wall (or without it) There is no (legal and/or moral atleast) way to stop illegal immigrants, drugs etc completely without say... invading, or just nuking the place.

But a wall will just either be bypassed, destoryed by the immigrants, or by protesting U.S citizens of simiply falls apart due to poor maintiance. So building it would be a waste of time, money and resources

K_Michael

EXcuse me?! The worst decision a U.S. president has ever made?
The Trail of Tears, anyone?

J_hubesj

@Zombieguy1987 this is just simply incorrect, a wall would indeed help very much.  In areas where there is already walling thanks to secure fence act of 2006, illegal immigration is down as much as 90%.  That is not because they decided to stay home but rather it has forced them into legal points of entry.  Also enough with this ladder crap, acting like it will only be the wall that is protecting our boarder is insane, the wall will need to be beefed up with high tech options like drones and watch towers and then of course human power with more boarder control agents.  The wall also allows us to take care of the 11 million illegal immigrants currently  living in the US.  With a physical barrier in place, we can get back to working on a reliable E-verify system that will allow those 11 million a better chance at landing a job, and then finally we can grant amnesty to those 11 million, but only after we are back in control of our own boarders.  We cannot have a desire for others to flood into our country thinking they will be amnestied that is way a physical barrier is needed.  Again though only amnesty will granted, you do not get to join the political destiny of a country if you came illegally but for those 11 million they should no longer have to fear deportation    

Zombieguy1987

J_hubesj said:

@Zombieguy1987 this is just simply incorrect, a wall would indeed help very much.  In areas where there is already walling thanks to secure fence act of 2006, illegal immigration is down as much as 90%. 

That's because immigration itself HAS GONE DOWN!

 That is not because they decided to stay home but rather it has forced them into legal points of entry.  Also enough with this ladder crap, acting like it will only be the wall that is protecting our boarder is insane, the wall will need to be beefed up with high tech options like drones and watch towers and then of course human power with more boarder control agents.  

Yep. The wall will totally work...



Because like the wall can be built ~15 feet into the ocean 10/10 effectiveness right here

Oh, and drug tunnels



Simply do this and it would be effective.



You cant climb the wall or use ladders to bypass it. But no. Trump want's to make the "Great Wall of America" Because apparently he failed World History class and doesn't realize the Great Wall of China failed to stop the Mongols, Japanese and European powers since it was built

https://www.quora.com/How-many-times-has-China-been-invaded-since-the-Great-Wall-of-China-was-built

Oh, and what's stopping people from DESTORYING IT!? 

The wall also allows us to take care of the 11 million illegal immigrants currently  living in the US.  With a physical barrier in place, we can get back to working on a reliable E-verify system that will allow those 11 million a better chance at landing a job, and then finally we can grant amnesty to those 11 million, but only after we are back in control of our own boarders.  We cannot have a desire for others to flood into our country thinking they will be amnestied that is way a physical barrier is needed.  Again though only amnesty will granted, you do not get to join the political destiny of a country if you came illegally but for those 11 million they should no longer have to fear deportation.
    
Then maybe focus on fixing the legal ways to get into the country so people aren't forced to get in illegally...

John_C_87

An issue with any border wall is the need to legislate through it by use of unconstitutional law to build it. The cost of this legislation will run far beyond the simple cost of a fence. For this money that will be spent on a single use project a transcontinental canal can be built that would produce many more practical use solutions to a long list of issues in that area of the United States, and Mexico.

Exclusion of United State Constitutional principle is never a solution of a realistic democratic means for neighboring Nations.

Applesauce

Jim Acosta proved walls work rofl.

CYDdharta

Zombieguy1987 said:

Yep. The wall will totally work...



Because like the wall can be built ~15 feet into the ocean 10/10 effectiveness right here

Too true, it's quite effective.  What could be easier for border patrolmen than picking illegals out of the surf.

Oh, and drug tunnels



Simply do this and it would be effective.

ROFL, yeah, "simply" dig a 2 mile tunnel.  Go ahead, we'll wait. 

You cant climb the wall or use ladders to bypass it. But no. Trump want's to make the "Great Wall of America" Because apparently he failed World History class and doesn't realize the Great Wall of China failed to stop the Mongols, Japanese and European powers since it was built

https://www.quora.com/How-many-times-has-China-been-invaded-since-the-Great-Wall-of-China-was-built

This was the Genghis Khan’s invasion of China and the only time that anyone actually breached the Great Wall.

So the wall was breached exactly ONE time in 2200 years, and that was by one of history's greatest conquerors.  How about that, history really does prove walls work.

Oh, and what's stopping people from DESTORYING IT!?

I'll take the National Guard for $100, Alex.

WordsMatter

@CYDdharta what is the wall going to look like specifically?

CYDdharta

WordsMatter said:

@CYDdharta what is the wall going to look like specifically?

Apparently, one of these;

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/12/heres-a-look-at-8-mexican-border-wall-prototypes/

Why?

Applesauce

CYDdharta said:

WordsMatter said:

@CYDdharta what is the wall going to look like specifically?

Apparently, one of these;

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/12/heres-a-look-at-8-mexican-border-wall-prototypes/

Why?

those look pretty effective to me.  I'm not sure why the detractors think everything has to work 100% or it's useless.  If the walls reduce illegal drugs by, let's say 10%, the various costs of illegal drugs 64 billion (though I think the actual figure is much higher), but even using those figures, it wouldn't take long for the wall to pay for it self.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/mexican-official-cartels-send-64b-in-drugs-into-us-annually

Mexican official: Cartels send $64B in drugs into US annually

https://drugabuse.com/featured/drug-trafficking-across-borders/

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-nearly-all-998-of-illegal-drugs-shipped-to-us-from-mexico

Report: Nearly all, 99.8%, of illegal drugs shipped to U.S. from Mexico

then there's the lives lost.....if it can just save one life....then it's worth it.....the hypocrisy would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

whiteflame

@Applesauce

I’m not interested in expanding my argument onto this debate, but I will just say a couple of things about my perspective.

I’ll start by agreeing with you. I don’t think that perfect or absolute solvency are required in order to support a policy like this. Anyone who simply argues that there are ways around, over or under the wall are just mitigating the effectiveness of it.

Much as I’ve argued (and will continue to argue) that there isn’t much evidence-based support for the effectiveness of a wall on our southern border, I do believe that a wall would at least be somewhat effective. The argument is logical: you make it more difficult or expensive to cross the border and fewer people will do it. A wall facilitates a reduction via these means. Previous walls/fences may simply be less effective deterrents than a larger and more imposing wall. At least theoretically, I see the benefit.

Coming from this perspective, some may be surprised that I am against the wall. There are two major reasons why I remain opposed. First, I’m not comparing a wall to nothing, I’m comparing it to other plausible alternatives that could also have substantial effects on the number of border crossings. Second, I’m not solely considering positive effects. Again, not going to take this opportunity to argue, but I find that there are clear negative effects of a wall (and uncertain ones as well, usually with far greater potential harms) that can be avoided by employing other border security methods.

So, you call out opponents of the wall for their oversimplification of the issue (i.e. refusing to acknowledge beneficial effects if they are not complete). I’ve found the same of proponents. There’s a distinct lack of consideration for alternative measures, as well as for basic problems involved with undertaking an effort to make such a large, contiguous wall. I think there would be a lot more open, bipartisan discussion of the issue if this conversation just focused on the most effective responses to border security problems. I blame both sides for that lack of discussion: Democrats for being so strongly opposed to any discussion of a wall and Republicans for being so heavily focused on a wall as a central and preceding feature of any border security effort. But maybe that’s just me.

WordsMatter

@Applesauce your second source does not say that 99 percent of ALL drugs are seized at the Mexico border, only that 99% of marijuana and meth are seized at the southern Border. It also says 93% of ecstacy is seized at the northern border, and 63% of cocaine is seized at the Western border. Weed is drastically less harmful than any of those other drugs and with it's legalization spreading across the US you are killing the market for the cartels. Where is the massive concern over the drugs pouring in the northern border? Should we build a wall there?

The source for that data is also from 2015 and a lot has changed since then. I'm sure the marijuana statistic has changed with a lot of to marijuana black market being supplied by California and Oregon. Oregon had an extremely low bar for entry to grow weed. More was grown than the state had a market for so many growers sold on the black market. The "other" drug category must consist a good bit by heroin. The majority of heroin does indeed flow through Mexico, but opiate overdoses have spiked due to the prevelance of fetanyl. Which the majority of that comes from China through the air which brings up the next important points.

The study cited lacks reports on any drugs seized via air travel, whether it's people smuggling it in on their bodies, or coming in through product shipments. This throws a wrench into all the other days reported as a major area for drug smuggling is ignored entirely, throwing off all the statistics. It ignores the dark web and the ability to buy any drug you want from any country and have it mailed to your front door. With a hundreds of pages long manual of how to do this to minimize the risk of being caught publicly available on Reddit this is also a major source of drug flow unaccounted for here. Add on top of that, that between the study and now El Chapo had been captured and is being prosecuted which was one of the largest suppliers of illegal drugs over the border must have affected the raw number of drugs coming over.

 In 2016 36,000 of opiate overdoses were caused by synthetic opiates, a combination of prescription pills and fetanyl. While 15,000 involved heroin. Even if a wall puts a dent into heroin flow into the US, the market for fetanyl will grow. Supply and demand works and especially with opiates, once you are hooked you will literally trade everything to get them from any source available. This data all comes from drugabuse.gov the legitimate source that the Washington examiners force of drugabuse.com is most likely trying to pretend to be.

The narrative that a border wall is needed to combat drug overdoses is disingenuous. The source of the majority of those overdoses resides in China, Canada, with Tylenol 3 legal and significantly more porous legal PoE, or the US. A wall will not affect those at all and I see a link of action by the Trump administration to crack down on Purdue Pharma and other opiate manufacturers, instead turning to heavier policing options which have been a failure the entire war on drugs. By shutting down the government and crippling TSA he is creating a golden window for China to ship more fetanyl in.

After that marijuana isn't responsible for any drugs overdoses and meth only makes up a portion of the paychostimulants category. While cocaine, which again even your source says comes in through the coastal borders, contributed to more overdoses than the entirety of the psycostimulant category. Then you consider how alcoholism and tobacco result in significantly more deaths than any of these illicit substances you get into a real conversation about the dangers of drugs and the real way of trying to solve that issue.

It's not worth it in the slightest to save 1 life with the wall. It's laughable this is coming from the party that is absolutely against free healthcare where you can save more than 1 life gaurenteed. Letting in refugees with also save lives. So get your fake concern over the value of a single life out of here.

Using drug deaths as a reason for the wall is a poor reason at best and misleading and an excuse to manipulate the population at worst.

Applesauce

@WordsMatter
it was Obama's reasoning for gun control LOL (if it can save just one life)  guess it went over your head.  (there's no such thing as free healthcare, coming from someone who's name is "wordsmatter" that's some awesome irony)
drugs coming into the country by other means and areas is irrelevant, the fact is they do come across the border and a barrier would reduce it and or make it more expensive to get it into the U.S. and we aren't even talking about the cost to support all the criminal aliens.
here's the thing about stats, you can only calculate them from what you know.  How can you account how much illegal drugs comes across the border if you don't find it?  Best guess?

Applesauce

@whiteflame

Much like what Trump is doing, there's a certain level of entertainment trolling people over the term "wall"  Their fixation about it makes them easy targets.  Barriers work, no one can honestly deny that.  Are the prototypes that were designed worth the money?  What I would do is make walls similar to prisons with concertina wire high and deep.  Perhaps this is all just negotiation, you ask for the stars and settle for the moon.  We won't know until the the 2 stiffs decide to negotiate in good faith.
Personally I think the proposed walls (prototypes) are too expensive.  Though they would work.  For that kind of money more could be done with it.  We do need more and better border security.

John_C_87

@WordsMatter ;

My wall looks like two walls with water in-between them. Some say mote, some say canal, in either case it is about 8 stories higher and more than twice the wide. Bigger than any images shown yet so far. The bridges are part of the gate system and it will be the biggest green energy accumulator of clean energy ever built to date.