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If I support Trump, am I a closet Racist?

124



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    Arguments


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta in fact there were. Northerners like to pretend lynchings only happened in the South but they went on everywhere.
     https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3701e.ct002012/?r=0.017,0.1,0.4,0.519,0

    Next time do a quick Google search before making an ignorant comment. How many illegals have you seen cross the border? Or are you aware of illegals crossing the border because we live in a time where that's common?

    Spiffy map.  Did you happen to notice on your map THERE WERE NO LYNCHINGS IN NEW YORK STATE???  Here's a free tip; when you're posting a response, it's best not to quote sources that completely undermine the point you're trying to make.
    George_Horse
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  

    *Posts a map of lynchings by state before Trump was even born*



    Cmon! That was the best result? 

    LOL, his results weren't even that good.
    George_Horse
  • WordsMatterWordsMatter 493 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta fake news. Now I'm right your wrong ;) new York City was the farthest North lynchings. I figure the rest of the state doesn't matter since that's where he was born
    beckysmithGeorge_Horse
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    Just watch it lol. There is an unedited video with audio filming him saying it. It is not just text on a screen or anything. It is a video of him saying it. just watch it
    I did, and I did not see ANY recording or evidence besides an unproved allegation. Again, STOP using SNL as your source, and link an actual credible news outlet that proves that Trump made that statement instead of rambling on with nonsense. 
    Okay, if you're so against the SNL source, you completely ignored the other two videos I sent you. How do you justify the other things he has said? what about the lebron situation? So far nobody on this debate in favor of trump has explained why he said that about Lebron James for building a school. How about the CNN link do you think CNN is not credible? In that video there are clips with proof of the things Lebron has said. The last video I attached was a long compilation of controversial racist things he has said. Can you justify each of them?
    At this sad point, I am beginning to lose hope. I watched them too, just unproved allegations. The claimants did NOT testify under oath, and there is NO recorded evidence that he made that statement. While I'm still playing sonic the hedgehog, I will await your next argument, hopefully you linking actual credible news outlets/websites, instead of continuously rambling on with even MORE nonsense. 
    Lol, allegations? read his tweets and watch his interviews. My arguments are not allegations made about him, they are the things he has said and done. Maybe if you would spend less time playing sonic the hedgehog and take a second to watch and read what I sent you then you would realize that what i am saying isn't "rambling" and "nonsense". I have mentioned the Lebron incident countless times now and even showed you the tweet from the man Trump himself and all you can say is "ahh its just allegations". You're in denial my friend. No offense but you are like those cult trump supporters who believe everything trump says just because he says "believe me" (which he said 80+ times throughout the presidential debate. Yea I counted) So let me ask you for the final time what is your justification behind him insulting Lebron James for building an affordable school for kids? To my knowledge, Trump has never insulted a caucasian athlete while he has attacked a whole sport (The NFL) for doing a peaceful protest and tried to separate Americans by telling them not to watch the sport and reminding us about all the bad things the players have done. He has done the same with a few colored NBA players as well. Theres your recorded evidence.
    George_Horse
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta fake news. Now I'm right your wrong ;) new York City was the farthest North lynchings. I figure the rest of the state doesn't matter since that's where he was born

    Not according to your map.  According to your source, the farthest north is in Ohio. If you have another source that actually shows what you're saying, feel free to share it.
    George_Horse
  • @JohnChristian Or. or. or. oooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    maybe. just. maybe.

    Trump wants to curb illegal immigration (Even though I think the wall is a waste of money because humans invented this flying device called an airplane which is the wall's kryptonite) But is nevertheless trying to curb illegal immigration because illegals are taking jobs from legal citizens are committing crime.

    The travel ban is meant to prevent terrorists from countries that are PROVEN to harbor terrorists (except for Saudi Arabia because "Muh Oil!"
    Remember all those terror attacks in Europe? The reason those happen is because of the E.U's shitty immigration policy of allowing any immigrants to come into Europe. Trump is trying to stop that by using this travel ban.


    @Zombieguy1987 If say, for example, there are no more immigrants in America, what would happen? Vast nothingness. Trump wants to curb illegal immigration, but immigration itself is what makes America a melting pot of culture. It's not the immigration policy of the European Union that caused those terror attacks, but guns. Look at Sandy Hook, Orlando, Stoneman Douglas, Santa Fe, Columbine, all school shootings, do you think illegal immigrants caused this? NO. It's because of guns,

    Travel ban and curbing illegal immigration is as worse as banning shirtless models from Abercrombie & Fitch, both of them caused a sharp negative impact. Besides, my argument that the ban is unacceptable is still open, if you dare to try.
    Zombieguy1987beckysmithGeorge_Horse
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  

    @Zombieguy1987 If say, for example, there are no more immigrants in America, what would happen? Vast nothingness. Trump wants to curb illegal immigration, but immigration itself is what makes America a melting pot of culture. It's not the immigration policy of the European Union that caused those terror attacks, but guns. Look at Sandy Hook, Orlando, Stoneman Douglas, Santa Fe, Columbine, all school shootings, do you think illegal immigrants caused this? NO. It's because of guns,

    Travel ban and curbing illegal immigration is as worse as banning shirtless models from Abercrombie & Fitch, both of them caused a sharp negative impact. Besides, my argument that the ban is unacceptable is still open, if you dare to try.

    Guns cause the acid attacks in London, grenade attacks in Sweden, sexual assaults in Germany?  Immigration in the US is a good thing, so long as the immigrants actually melt into American society.  The immigrant problems in Europe and the US are illustrations that these immigrants are not integrating into their new societies.
    Zombieguy1987beckysmith
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 471 Pts   -  
    @JohnChristian There's a difference between illegal and legal immigration; One follows the law, and other doesn't.
    Also, you're pulling the "Blame the guns" cliché.

    You sound , and far from reality when you blame an object, instead of the person using it! Those shooting you mentioned had nothing to do with immigration, and I never mentioned them as a reason to curb illegal immigration. I mentioned examples of illegal immigration around the world to show why it's good that Trump's curbing it.

    By your logic, if a rape happens, blame the victim! a bombing!? blame the bomb! might as well blame the planes for 9/11!
    beckysmith
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5971 Pts   -  
    @JohnChristian

    Terrorism is exactly like mass gun shootings in this regard: both have nothing to do with the law and everything to do with culture. Regardless of how strict the US immigration policies are, foreign terrorists will find a way in; regardless of how strict gun laws are, mass shooters will find a way around.

    It is interesting how, depending on the political preferences, only one of these is agreed on, while the other one is strongly opposed to. Democrats have no problem with banning guns, but want to allow everyone in; Republicans love guns, but suddenly get tense when an immigrant from a Muslim country arrives in the US.

    It is a regular case of a double standard in politics: people support whatever their political camp does, and not what they arrived to as a result of consistent application of raw logic.
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    @JohnChristian There's a difference between illegal and legal immigration; One follows the law, and other doesn't.
    Also, you're pulling the "Blame the guns" cliché.

    You sound , and far from reality when you blame an object, instead of the person using it! Those shooting you mentioned had nothing to do with immigration, and I never mentioned them as a reason to curb illegal immigration. I mentioned examples of illegal immigration around the world to show why it's good that Trump's curbing it.

    By your logic, if a rape happens, blame the victim! a bombing!? blame the bomb! might as well blame the planes for 9/11!
    Logically, your argument doesn't make sense. How accessible is a bomb compared to a gun? We can not blame a bomb because it takes a lot of money, time and resources to attain one. In terms of a drunk driver my same point applies. Removing cars to solve the issue is clearly not the right solution. The alcohol (and probably education) logically is the biggest issue. In terms of guns look at the numbers: Some sources say that the United States has more guns than people. If that's not accurate, then it is somewhere close to that. A person dealing with depression and insanity can easily purchase a military grade firearm LEGALLY in just 30 seconds. Now, logically what is the biggest problem; the shooter, or the gun? No matter which one you choose, the solution has to be somewhere along the lines of restricting the accessibility and perhaps even banning certain weapons or making gun laws more strict. Children are shooting their own siblings on accident, troubled kids are shooting up their own school because it  is too easy for them to get a gun in their hands. I do not understand why people see shootings in the United States and act surprised. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result. These shootings will continue if a change is not made. 
    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    A person dealing with depression and insanity can easily purchase a military grade firearm LEGALLY in just 30 seconds.

    This statement is simple false.  It takes thousands of dollars and months of working with your local law enforcement, and usually a lawyer, to legally purchase a military grade firearm.

  • piloteerpiloteer 1577 Pts   -  
    No, it doesn't make you a closet racist if you support trump. It makes you an open, proud racist.
    CYDdhartabeckysmithZombieguy1987
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    A person dealing with depression and insanity can easily purchase a military grade firearm LEGALLY in just 30 seconds.

    This statement is simple false.  It takes thousands of dollars and months of working with your local law enforcement, and usually a lawyer, to legally purchase a military grade firearm.

    My friend, you have simply never bought a gun or know someone who has bought a gun then. Explain to me why most mass shooters are diagnosed with "a mental illness" and still have access to all the guns they have? 

    Even for the sake of the argument, say it does take "thousands of dollars and months of working with your local law enforcement, and usually a lawyer, to legally purchase a military grade firearm." Why are these mentally ill people still attaining guns then? There is no law or nobody stopping them at the moment. Why are children able to get their parents guns so easily to shoot up the school or accidentally hurt someone or themselves? Either way, the laws and regulations right now are clearly insufficient.
  • George_HorseGeorge_Horse 499 Pts   -  
    Just watch it lol. There is an unedited video with audio filming him saying it. It is not just text on a screen or anything. It is a video of him saying it. just watch it
    I did, and I did not see ANY recording or evidence besides an unproved allegation. Again, STOP using SNL as your source, and link an actual credible news outlet that proves that Trump made that statement instead of rambling on with nonsense. 
    Okay, if you're so against the SNL source, you completely ignored the other two videos I sent you. How do you justify the other things he has said? what about the lebron situation? So far nobody on this debate in favor of trump has explained why he said that about Lebron James for building a school. How about the CNN link do you think CNN is not credible? In that video there are clips with proof of the things Lebron has said. The last video I attached was a long compilation of controversial racist things he has said. Can you justify each of them?
    At this sad point, I am beginning to lose hope. I watched them too, just unproved allegations. The claimants did NOT testify under oath, and there is NO recorded evidence that he made that statement. While I'm still playing sonic the hedgehog, I will await your next argument, hopefully you linking actual credible news outlets/websites, instead of continuously rambling on with even MORE nonsense. 
    Lol, allegations? read his tweets and watch his interviews. My arguments are not allegations made about him, they are the things he has said and done. Maybe if you would spend less time playing sonic the hedgehog and take a second to watch and read what I sent you then you would realize that what i am saying isn't "rambling" and "nonsense". I have mentioned the Lebron incident countless times now and even showed you the tweet from the man Trump himself and all you can say is "ahh its just allegations". You're in denial my friend. No offense but you are like those cult trump supporters who believe everything trump says just because he says "believe me" (which he said 80+ times throughout the presidential debate. Yea I counted) So let me ask you for the final time what is your justification behind him insulting Lebron James for building an affordable school for kids? To my knowledge, Trump has never insulted a caucasian athlete while he has attacked a whole sport (The NFL) for doing a peaceful protest and tried to separate Americans by telling them not to watch the sport and reminding us about all the bad things the players have done. He has done the same with a few colored NBA players as well. Theres your recorded evidence.

    Now at this point I'm starting to get pissed off. You see these examples? 






    Could YOU possibly do the same with your claims, or are you going to continue to annoy me with your unlinked arguments?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill

    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  

    My friend, you have simply never bought a gun or know someone who has bought a gun then. Explain to me why most mass shooters are diagnosed with "a mental illness" and still have access to all the guns they have? 

    Even for the sake of the argument, say it does take "thousands of dollars and months of working with your local law enforcement, and usually a lawyer, to legally purchase a military grade firearm." Why are these mentally ill people still attaining guns then? There is no law or nobody stopping them at the moment. Why are children able to get their parents guns so easily to shoot up the school or accidentally hurt someone or themselves? Either way, the laws and regulations right now are clearly insufficient.
    On the contrary, I actually did purchase a military grade firearm, which is why I know how involved and expensive the process is.  You, on the other hand, don't seem to know much at all about the subject. 

    These people have no access to military grade firearms.

    The FBI was contacted a number of times before the Parkland shooter went on his spree.  They chose to do nothing.  If the FBI can't be bothered to do anything about a clearly identified threat, why in the world would you think yet another law or regulation would make any difference?
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:

    My friend, you have simply never bought a gun or know someone who has bought a gun then. Explain to me why most mass shooters are diagnosed with "a mental illness" and still have access to all the guns they have? 

    Even for the sake of the argument, say it does take "thousands of dollars and months of working with your local law enforcement, and usually a lawyer, to legally purchase a military grade firearm." Why are these mentally ill people still attaining guns then? There is no law or nobody stopping them at the moment. Why are children able to get their parents guns so easily to shoot up the school or accidentally hurt someone or themselves? Either way, the laws and regulations right now are clearly insufficient.
    On the contrary, I actually did purchase a military grade firearm, which is why I know how involved and expensive the process is.  You, on the other hand, don't seem to know much at all about the subject. 

    These people have no access to military grade firearms.

    The FBI was contacted a number of times before the Parkland shooter went on his spree.  They chose to do nothing.  If the FBI can't be bothered to do anything about a clearly identified threat, why in the world would you think yet another law or regulation would make any difference?
    So your logic is because one thing doesn't work, then surely trying a completely different solution won't work? hmmm okay. And what sources say FBI was contacted before the Parkland shooter? how about all the other shootings as well?
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    Just watch it lol. There is an unedited video with audio filming him saying it. It is not just text on a screen or anything. It is a video of him saying it. just watch it
    I did, and I did not see ANY recording or evidence besides an unproved allegation. Again, STOP using SNL as your source, and link an actual credible news outlet that proves that Trump made that statement instead of rambling on with nonsense. 
    Okay, if you're so against the SNL source, you completely ignored the other two videos I sent you. How do you justify the other things he has said? what about the lebron situation? So far nobody on this debate in favor of trump has explained why he said that about Lebron James for building a school. How about the CNN link do you think CNN is not credible? In that video there are clips with proof of the things Lebron has said. The last video I attached was a long compilation of controversial racist things he has said. Can you justify each of them?
    At this sad point, I am beginning to lose hope. I watched them too, just unproved allegations. The claimants did NOT testify under oath, and there is NO recorded evidence that he made that statement. While I'm still playing sonic the hedgehog, I will await your next argument, hopefully you linking actual credible news outlets/websites, instead of continuously rambling on with even MORE nonsense. 
    Lol, allegations? read his tweets and watch his interviews. My arguments are not allegations made about him, they are the things he has said and done. Maybe if you would spend less time playing sonic the hedgehog and take a second to watch and read what I sent you then you would realize that what i am saying isn't "rambling" and "nonsense". I have mentioned the Lebron incident countless times now and even showed you the tweet from the man Trump himself and all you can say is "ahh its just allegations". You're in denial my friend. No offense but you are like those cult trump supporters who believe everything trump says just because he says "believe me" (which he said 80+ times throughout the presidential debate. Yea I counted) So let me ask you for the final time what is your justification behind him insulting Lebron James for building an affordable school for kids? To my knowledge, Trump has never insulted a caucasian athlete while he has attacked a whole sport (The NFL) for doing a peaceful protest and tried to separate Americans by telling them not to watch the sport and reminding us about all the bad things the players have done. He has done the same with a few colored NBA players as well. Theres your recorded evidence.

    Now at this point I'm starting to get pissed off. You see these examples? 



    Could YOU possibly do the same with your claims, or are you going to continue to annoy me with your unlinked arguments?
    Woah, why did the subject suddenly shift from trump to guns? Talk about "unlinked arguments". Did you even read any of my previous post? Im going to keep asking until I get an answer: whats the justification behind Trump insulting lebron james for building a school?
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    So your logic is because one thing doesn't work, then surely trying a completely different solution won't work? hmmm okay. And what sources say FBI was contacted before the Parkland shooter? how about all the other shootings as well?
    A completely different solution?!?  You haven't offered a completely different solution, just more of the same with results that disappoint you. 

    As for the Parkland shooter, the Miami Herald and CNN top the list. 




  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    So your logic is because one thing doesn't work, then surely trying a completely different solution won't work? hmmm okay. And what sources say FBI was contacted before the Parkland shooter? how about all the other shootings as well?
    A completely different solution?!?  You haven't offered a completely different solution, just more of the same with results that disappoint you. 

    As for the Parkland shooter, the Miami Herald and CNN top the list. 




    I said earlier "Either way, the laws and regulations right now are clearly insufficient." Not sure if you could see that I was trying to say make more strict gun laws and regulations. Or even ban them, theres no reason for people to have them in my opinion.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    I said earlier "Either way, the laws and regulations right now are clearly insufficient." Not sure if you could see that I was trying to say make more strict gun laws and regulations. Or even ban them, theres no reason for people to have them in my opinion.
    I saw that, it just doesn't make any sense.  Law enforcement agencies can't/aren't enforcing the laws already on the books, and your suggestion is to pass more laws?!?
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    I said earlier "Either way, the laws and regulations right now are clearly insufficient." Not sure if you could see that I was trying to say make more strict gun laws and regulations. Or even ban them, theres no reason for people to have them in my opinion.
    I saw that, it just doesn't make any sense.  Law enforcement agencies can't/aren't enforcing the laws already on the books, and your suggestion is to pass more laws?!?
    This is a whole other debate talking about guns and there are debates on this website that discuss that question. I've already contributed enough of my time and found that both sides are just stubborn to come to a consensus and its just a bigotic argument so it's not worth my time anymore.

    Last thing i'm going to say on this topic is that i've seen enough statistics to know that a change needs to be made, and I personally would like to see more strict gun laws or even banning guns. If you would like to talk about the topic of this debate (trump) i'll be happy to talk about that.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    This is a whole other debate talking about guns and there are debates on this website that discuss that question. I've already contributed enough of my time and found that both sides are just stubborn to come to a consensus and its just a bigotic argument so it's not worth my time anymore.

    Last thing i'm going to say on this topic is that i've seen enough statistics to know that a change needs to be made, and I personally would like to see more strict gun laws or even banning guns. If you would like to talk about the topic of this debate (trump) i'll be happy to talk about that.

    The most important statistic on this topic is this;




    I see no reason to try to fix what is unquestionably working quite well.  If you wish to discuss the thread topic, feel free to post something about the thread topic.
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    "I see no reason to try to fix what is unquestionably working quite well.  If you wish to discuss the thread topic, feel free to post something about the thread topic."

    "Working quite well"?? Did you really just say that? Yea, you're right. Stoneman Douglass High School shooting that killed 17 students and injured 17 more is working quite well. The Las Vegas shooting that killed 59 and injured 851 more is working quite well. Sutherland church shootings that killed 27 and injured 20 more is no big deal because its working quite well. How can you see these things on the news and be okay with it. You guys who say "gun crime has gone down so we should keep our guns" don't understand that gang shootings and quantities of shootings may have decreased but you don't show the statistics that show now, shooting are happening in peculiar  places. Were no longer safe in schools, in concerts, in madden tournaments. As I said earlier both sides are too stubborn to come to consensus so this argument is pointless.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5971 Pts   -  
    The probability of a randomly selected person to be killed in a mass shooting or in a terrorist attack - is about the same as their probability of being attacked by a shark, and is many times lower than the probability of drowning in a bathtub or dying in a car accident.

    Just like in case of terrorism, the actual danger for the average US citizen is greatly exaggerated by the advocates for introducing restrictions. Every time you cross a public road intersection, you put your life at orders of magnitude greater risk, than every time you go to a public place where you could *in theory* be attacked by a terrorist or a mass shooter - yet I do not see anyone campaigning for tighter regulations of intersections or cars. It is only "restrict guns" or "restrict international travel".

    The US is an incredibly safe country, for a country this size, this low population density and this high population diversity. While there are venues to improve upon, "war on terrorism" and "war on guns" are not some of them.

    I feel completely safe here, and I live in one of the most gun-friendly states, in one of the most immigration-heavy areas of this state. I suggest paying less attention to sensationalist media, and then the "redneck from Texas with a machine gun" or "Mohammed from Iran with a grenade belt" scarecrows will not make you feel endangered, given how marginally unlikely any given person is to be affected by those.

    Unlike Trump's or Sanders' narrative, there is no need to "make America great again": America is already great, despite what the doomsayers on both sides say. The doomsayers will play on people's fears and expand the influence of the federal government allegedly to "protect" them, while all they really are after is power.
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:
    The probability of a randomly selected person to be killed in a mass shooting or in a terrorist attack - is about the same as their probability of being attacked by a shark, and is many times lower than the probability of drowning in a bathtub or dying in a car accident.

    Just like in case of terrorism, the actual danger for the average US citizen is greatly exaggerated by the advocates for introducing restrictions. Every time you cross a public road intersection, you put your life at orders of magnitude greater risk, than every time you go to a public place where you could *in theory* be attacked by a terrorist or a mass shooter - yet I do not see anyone campaigning for tighter regulations of intersections or cars. It is only "restrict guns" or "restrict international travel".

    The US is an incredibly safe country, for a country this size, this low population density and this high population diversity. While there are venues to improve upon, "war on terrorism" and "war on guns" are not some of them.

    I feel completely safe here, and I live in one of the most gun-friendly states, in one of the most immigration-heavy areas of this state. I suggest paying less attention to sensationalist media, and then the "redneck from Texas with a machine gun" or "Mohammed from Iran with a grenade belt" scarecrows will not make you feel endangered, given how marginally unlikely any given person is to be affected by those.

    Unlike Trump's or Sanders' narrative, there is no need to "make America great again": America is already great, despite what the doomsayers on both sides say. The doomsayers will play on people's fears and expand the influence of the federal government allegedly to "protect" them, while all they really are after is power.
    Im glad to know that you feel safe, but I, and millions of other Americans do not. And while its true the probability of being killed in a mass shooting is low, I am not thinking about myself when I think of this. I think of the unlucky ones. It is not fair to turn your head and leave the ones who were killed by saying they were apart of the low probability. Sorry to get personal, but if your family member was killed in a mass shooting I'm sure you would feel differently. 

    Your point on regulating intersections or cars because its a more dangerous setting is not related. When you walk across an intersection that is your choice. You can wait until you don't see a single car and then drop your probability of being hit to 0%. That is 100% avoidable. Infrastructure such as better walkways, repainting crosswalks, the investment in traffic lights are are pretty effective in insuring our safety for that. For guns, what technology or regulations insure our safety? Speaking of trump, he thinks "If the coach had a firearm in his locker when he ran at this guy – that coach was very brave, saved a lot of lives, I suspect." Arm our teachers, arm our citizens so we can protect ourselves. That just sounds absurd. Fighting fire with fire never works. Trump is doing absolutely nothing to help.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5971 Pts   -  
    @beckysmith

    Same way, you can avoid crowded areas and avoid becoming a victim of mass shootings. In fact, you can live in the forest completely alone - there is a lot of wild forests in the US where one can hide from the dangers of the society. It is not very practical, however, hence this point is moot.

    Your logic can be applied to anything. A very rare virus killing several people a year will make one losing their family to it feel very different, than a random person. Does not mean the government should restrict the rights of 300+ million people in order to save a few. Emotion-based law-making is a logical fallacy.

    There is a list of priorities to make. There are thousands of entities killing far more people than shootings. If you do not feel safe because of shootings, then you should be absolutely terrified because of car accidents, cancers or drownings. Yet something tells me you are not terrified out of this world every time you step into the water on a beach, or every time you drink a cup of beer, with alcohol being one of the most common carcinogens.

    Not to mention that saving people is not the job of the government in the first place. The job of the government is to uphold people's constitutional rights; everything else is up to the people themselves.
    beckysmith
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  

    "Working quite well"?? Did you really just say that? Yea, you're right. Stoneman Douglass High School shooting that killed 17 students and injured 17 more is working quite well. The Las Vegas shooting that killed 59 and injured 851 more is working quite well. Sutherland church shootings that killed 27 and injured 20 more is no big deal because its working quite well. How can you see these things on the news and be okay with it. You guys who say "gun crime has gone down so we should keep our guns" don't understand that gang shootings and quantities of shootings may have decreased but you don't show the statistics that show now, shooting are happening in peculiar  places. Were no longer safe in schools, in concerts, in madden tournaments. As I said earlier both sides are too stubborn to come to consensus so this argument is pointless.

    Yes, it's working very well.  As you can see, the violent crime rate is HALF what it was in the mid 90s.  Violent crime hasn't been this low since the early 70s.  Homicides are actually lower, they haven't been this low since the early 60s.  You're worried about "peculiar places"?!?  Would you be willing to trade the low crime rate, which is continuing to drop, for a higher crime rate if the victims were confined to fewer areas???  If that's what would make you happy, then I suppose you're right, some people ARE too stubborn to come to consensus. Kids never were safe at school, people just deluded themselves into thinking they were.  The earliest US school shooting happened in 1840, and the deadliest school attack happened in 1927.  Public gatherings such as concerts have always been prized terrorist targets.
    beckysmith
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta this is what i mean, we will never come to a condenses. Go and enjoy your guns. Next time you see a school shooting I hope you're happy
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta this is what i mean, we will never come to a condenses. Go and enjoy your guns. Next time you see a school shooting I hope you're happy

    I'm happy that the trend in violent crime is going steadily down, I'll certainly be happy next time a violent crime is stopped by a law-abiding gun owner.  Maybe you want to explain to that potential victim how we'd all be better off if he/she had been murdered, raped, assaulted and maimed, etc.
  • George_HorseGeorge_Horse 499 Pts   -   edited September 2018
    Just watch it lol. There is an unedited video with audio filming him saying it. It is not just text on a screen or anything. It is a video of him saying it. just watch it
    I did, and I did not see ANY recording or evidence besides an unproved allegation. Again, STOP using SNL as your source, and link an actual credible news outlet that proves that Trump made that statement instead of rambling on with nonsense. 
    Okay, if you're so against the SNL source, you completely ignored the other two videos I sent you. How do you justify the other things he has said? what about the lebron situation? So far nobody on this debate in favor of trump has explained why he said that about Lebron James for building a school. How about the CNN link do you think CNN is not credible? In that video there are clips with proof of the things Lebron has said. The last video I attached was a long compilation of controversial racist things he has said. Can you justify each of them?
    At this sad point, I am beginning to lose hope. I watched them too, just unproved allegations. The claimants did NOT testify under oath, and there is NO recorded evidence that he made that statement. While I'm still playing sonic the hedgehog, I will await your next argument, hopefully you linking actual credible news outlets/websites, instead of continuously rambling on with even MORE nonsense. 
    Lol, allegations? read his tweets and watch his interviews. My arguments are not allegations made about him, they are the things he has said and done. Maybe if you would spend less time playing sonic the hedgehog and take a second to watch and read what I sent you then you would realize that what i am saying isn't "rambling" and "nonsense". I have mentioned the Lebron incident countless times now and even showed you the tweet from the man Trump himself and all you can say is "ahh its just allegations". You're in denial my friend. No offense but you are like those cult trump supporters who believe everything trump says just because he says "believe me" (which he said 80+ times throughout the presidential debate. Yea I counted) So let me ask you for the final time what is your justification behind him insulting Lebron James for building an affordable school for kids? To my knowledge, Trump has never insulted a caucasian athlete while he has attacked a whole sport (The NFL) for doing a peaceful protest and tried to separate Americans by telling them not to watch the sport and reminding us about all the bad things the players have done. He has done the same with a few colored NBA players as well. Theres your recorded evidence.

    Now at this point I'm starting to get pissed off. You see these examples? 



    Could YOU possibly do the same with your claims, or are you going to continue to annoy me with your unlinked arguments?
    Woah, why did the subject suddenly shift from trump to guns? Talk about "unlinked arguments". Did you even read any of my previous post? Im going to keep asking until I get an answer: whats the justification behind Trump insulting lebron james for building a school?
    It would seem that there is some material in your eyes, try and clean your eyes. Or maybe it is not your eyes being unclean, but your vision. Did you have some difficulty understanding my previous post? The images were SAMPLES of how you should link your claims, I'm not talking about guns, I used the images as examples of how you should source your claims, simple as that. Now that you again claim that Donald Trump attacked Lebron for building a school, please source (ACTUALLY LINK YOUR CLAIM) your claim, like this: "Donald Trump attacked lebron." [3]. I will wait for you now, don't get me mad please. 
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill

    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  

    It would seem that there is some material in your eyes, try and clean your eyes. Or maybe it is not your eyes being unclean, but your vision. Did you have some difficulty understanding my previous post? The images were SAMPLES of how you should link your claims, I'm not talking about guns, I used the images as examples of how you should source your claims, simple as that. Now that you again claim that Donald Trump attacked Lebron for building a school, please source (ACTUALLY LINK YOUR CLAIM) your claim, like this: "Donald Trump attacked lebron." [3]. I will wait for you now, don't get me mad please. 
    LOL first of all, relax . See, if you would watch other news sources other than just fox news, then you'd see the other side of trump. It was all over the news of what Trump said about Lebron, and if you would "clean your eyes" also, you would see that I posted a screenshot of the tweet that Trump posted. I'm not sure which source you trump supporters find not to be "fake news" so here are multiple sources to actually link my claim: 
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-attacks-lebron-james-intelligence-mike/story?id=57027959
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-attacks-lebron-james-intelligence-mike/story?id=57027959
    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/4/17650982/trump-lebron-james-tweet-don-lemon
    https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/08/donald-trump-lebron-james/
    http://fortune.com/2018/08/04/trump-lebron-james-tweet/

    And again, here is a screenshot of the tweet he sent.


    Whats your justification on this?
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5971 Pts   -  
    @beckysmith

    The consensus has already been found, a long time ago: it is the 2nd amendment. It was written by much smarter people than almost anyone in the current US government. As such, I see no reason to violate/change the Constitution just because not everything in this country works as some would prefer.

    The current discussion on the gun laws in the US politics is mostly just attempts to score some political points over an irrelevant issue on both fronts. Legally speaking, there is nothing to discuss, as the discussion was concluded over two centuries ago.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  

    It would seem that there is some material in your eyes, try and clean your eyes. Or maybe it is not your eyes being unclean, but your vision. Did you have some difficulty understanding my previous post? The images were SAMPLES of how you should link your claims, I'm not talking about guns, I used the images as examples of how you should source your claims, simple as that. Now that you again claim that Donald Trump attacked Lebron for building a school, please source (ACTUALLY LINK YOUR CLAIM) your claim, like this: "Donald Trump attacked lebron." [3]. I will wait for you now, don't get me mad please. 
    LOL first of all, relax . See, if you would watch other news sources other than just fox news, then you'd see the other side of trump. It was all over the news of what Trump said about Lebron, and if you would "clean your eyes" also, you would see that I posted a screenshot of the tweet that Trump posted. I'm not sure which source you trump supporters find not to be "fake news" so here are multiple sources to actually link my claim: 
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-attacks-lebron-james-intelligence-mike/story?id=57027959
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-attacks-lebron-james-intelligence-mike/story?id=57027959
    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/4/17650982/trump-lebron-james-tweet-don-lemon
    https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/08/donald-trump-lebron-james/
    http://fortune.com/2018/08/04/trump-lebron-james-tweet/

    And again, here is a screenshot of the tweet he sent.


    Whats your justification on this?

    So, in other words, there is no evidence that Trump attacked LeBron for building a school.  Thanx for clearing that up.
    beckysmith
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:

    It would seem that there is some material in your eyes, try and clean your eyes. Or maybe it is not your eyes being unclean, but your vision. Did you have some difficulty understanding my previous post? The images were SAMPLES of how you should link your claims, I'm not talking about guns, I used the images as examples of how you should source your claims, simple as that. Now that you again claim that Donald Trump attacked Lebron for building a school, please source (ACTUALLY LINK YOUR CLAIM) your claim, like this: "Donald Trump attacked lebron." [3]. I will wait for you now, don't get me mad please. 
    LOL first of all, relax . See, if you would watch other news sources other than just fox news, then you'd see the other side of trump. It was all over the news of what Trump said about Lebron, and if you would "clean your eyes" also, you would see that I posted a screenshot of the tweet that Trump posted. I'm not sure which source you trump supporters find not to be "fake news" so here are multiple sources to actually link my claim: 
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-attacks-lebron-james-intelligence-mike/story?id=57027959
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-attacks-lebron-james-intelligence-mike/story?id=57027959
    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/4/17650982/trump-lebron-james-tweet-don-lemon
    https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/08/donald-trump-lebron-james/
    http://fortune.com/2018/08/04/trump-lebron-james-tweet/

    And again, here is a screenshot of the tweet he sent.


    Whats your justification on this?

    So, in other words, there is no evidence that Trump attacked LeBron for building a school.  Thanx for clearing that up.
    You believe the black lives matter movement is a "racist group" so i'm not surprised about your views. And you're welcome
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    You believe the black lives matter movement is a "racist group" so i'm not surprised about your views. And you're welcome

    You believe they're not?!? 
    George_Horse
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:
    @beckysmith

    The consensus has already been found, a long time ago: it is the 2nd amendment. It was written by much smarter people than almost anyone in the current US government. As such, I see no reason to violate/change the Constitution just because not everything in this country works as some would prefer.

    The current discussion on the gun laws in the US politics is mostly just attempts to score some political points over an irrelevant issue on both fronts. Legally speaking, there is nothing to discuss, as the discussion was concluded over two centuries ago.
    You think that just because the 2nd amendment was written by a bunch of smart guys we shouldn't change it? As you said, it was written a long time ago and things, people and technologies have changed. And its not "some" who would prefer to see a change but easily a near equal-sided debate. And you think gun laws is an irrelevant issue?? Then let it be changed or at least altered because its no big deal to you. 2nd amendment took into effect in 1791. Do you know what type of guns they had back then? And how their society and environment was like? It made sense to own guns back then. We are not all cowboys hunters here in 2018. We have access to a lot of power now. Its the same concept of how we are being warned to watch out for the development of AI. You can't disagree that guns have developed since 1700's, so why are we using the same regulations as we did back when people were using guns where you have to load your own gunpowder?
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    You believe the black lives matter movement is a "racist group" so i'm not surprised about your views. And you're welcome

    You believe they're not?!? 
    I can't believe you. Explain to me how they are. 

    Do you believe feminists are sexist?

    Do you believe someone who believes in equal rights are unfair?

    Do you believe all straight people are homophobic?

    Just because people stand for black rights and equality DOES NOT make them racist.
  • George_HorseGeorge_Horse 499 Pts   -   edited September 2018

    It would seem that there is some material in your eyes, try and clean your eyes. Or maybe it is not your eyes being unclean, but your vision. Did you have some difficulty understanding my previous post? The images were SAMPLES of how you should link your claims, I'm not talking about guns, I used the images as examples of how you should source your claims, simple as that. Now that you again claim that Donald Trump attacked Lebron for building a school, please source (ACTUALLY LINK YOUR CLAIM) your claim, like this: "Donald Trump attacked lebron." [3]. I will wait for you now, don't get me mad please. 
    LOL first of all, relax . See, if you would watch other news sources other than just fox news, then you'd see the other side of trump. It was all over the news of what Trump said about Lebron, and if you would "clean your eyes" also, you would see that I posted a screenshot of the tweet that Trump posted. I'm not sure which source you trump supporters find not to be "fake news" so here are multiple sources to actually link my claim: 
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-attacks-lebron-james-intelligence-mike/story?id=57027959
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-attacks-lebron-james-intelligence-mike/story?id=57027959
    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/4/17650982/trump-lebron-james-tweet-don-lemon
    https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/08/donald-trump-lebron-james/
    http://fortune.com/2018/08/04/trump-lebron-james-tweet/

    Oh wow! You actually listened this time! Now I'm happy! Now to address the screenshot first.

    As it says: "Lebron James was just interviewed the dumbest man on television, Don Lemon. He made Lebron look smart, which isn't easy to do. I like Mike!"  Trump was not attacking the basketball player, but one of CNN's news hosts. Now it does say that Trump said making Lebron look smart was "not easy to do." but for a fact, Lebron is not the brightest person. And these news outlets only make assumptions that Trump called Lebron "Dumb." Look at this image 



    Lebron claims that "Uneducated people voted for Trump" yet he truly believed Hillary would have became the president, and his support for such a abhorrent candidate. His school will cost taxpayers $8,000,000 a year.[1]  He also claims that Trump is using sports to divide people [2], yet he shows disrespect towards this elderly man at one of his games in this video footage:   

    And another is that he said he did not "f*ck with White people." [3] So why does Trump criticizing Don Lemon upset you but the other despicable things that HE did not upset you one bit?

    edit: source three, check again.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill

    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
  • WordsMatterWordsMatter 493 Pts   -  
    @George_Horse I never saw @beckysmith
    Say that all those things didn't bother them
    George_Horse
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    I can't believe you. Explain to me how they are. 

    Do you believe feminists are sexist?

    Do you believe someone who believes in equal rights are unfair?

    Do you believe all straight people are homophobic?

    Just because people stand for black rights and equality DOES NOT make them racist.

    Of course Black Lives Matter is racist and feminists are sexist.  Neither of those groups are in the least interested equal rights; they just want to promote their groups and causes to the exclusion and detriment of equality.  How does Black Lives Matter promote Asian causes?  How does Black Lives Matter promote European causes? 

  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  

    It would seem that there is some material in your eyes, try and clean your eyes. Or maybe it is not your eyes being unclean, but your vision. Did you have some difficulty understanding my previous post? The images were SAMPLES of how you should link your claims, I'm not talking about guns, I used the images as examples of how you should source your claims, simple as that. Now that you again claim that Donald Trump attacked Lebron for building a school, please source (ACTUALLY LINK YOUR CLAIM) your claim, like this: "Donald Trump attacked lebron." [3]. I will wait for you now, don't get me mad please. 
    LOL first of all, relax . See, if you would watch other news sources other than just fox news, then you'd see the other side of trump. It was all over the news of what Trump said about Lebron, and if you would "clean your eyes" also, you would see that I posted a screenshot of the tweet that Trump posted. I'm not sure which source you trump supporters find not to be "fake news" so here are multiple sources to actually link my claim: 
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-attacks-lebron-james-intelligence-mike/story?id=57027959
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-attacks-lebron-james-intelligence-mike/story?id=57027959
    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/4/17650982/trump-lebron-james-tweet-don-lemon
    https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/08/donald-trump-lebron-james/
    http://fortune.com/2018/08/04/trump-lebron-james-tweet/

    Oh wow! You actually listened this time! Now I'm happy! Now to address the screenshot first.

    As it says: "Lebron James was just interviewed the dumbest man on television, Don Lemon. He made Lebron look smart, which isn't easy to do. I like Mike!"  Trump was not attacking the basketball player, but one of CNN's news hosts. Now it does say that Trump said making Lebron look smart was "not easy to do." but for a fact, Lebron is not the brightest person. And these news outlets only make assumptions that Trump called Lebron "Dumb." Look at this image 



    Lebron claims that "Uneducated people voted for Trump" yet he truly believed Hillary would have became the president, and his support for such a abhorrent candidate. His school will cost taxpayers $8,000,000 a year.[1]  He also claims that Trump is using sports to divide people [2], yet he shows disrespect towards this elderly man at one of his games in this video footage:   

    And another is that he said he did not "f*ck with White people." [3] So why does Trump criticizing Don Lemon upset you but the other despicable things that HE did not upset you one bit?


    You really think Lebron doesn't "f*ck with white people"? A lot of his teammates who he calls his family are white. That source you attached does not exist by the way. Also, you personally think he is unintelligent?? What shows that. And im fine with putting my tax paying money towards education 100%. Education arguably the single most important thing anyone can invest in. Ask any economist, qualified politician, or large business owner they will tell you thats a fact.

    And that tweet clearly shows trump calling Lebron dumb. Don't say it was only criticizing Don Lemon. Honestly, if you think Lebron James is a bad person, you might as well hate every NBA player as well. He for a fact is one of the most respected athletes to have ever lived. Not just for his athletic ability but also for the things he does off the court. In all honestly, you are the first person i've ever heard say that Lebron is a bad person. Going back to where he "disrespected" the fan wearing a MAGA hat. I can't help but laugh at that. Where in that video was the fan disrespect? Lebron was simply throwing his shirt to the side and made eye contact with the fan. At most he saw the MAGA hat and gave him a bad look. How is that disrespecting? Don't be so sensitive lol. You cannot justify Trumps actions by saying Lebron is a bad person. Anybody will tell you that is not true. Maybe he offends people by saying some things like "uneducated people vote for trump" which I can admit is a bit offensive, but he is in no way a bad person.
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    I can't believe you. Explain to me how they are. 

    Do you believe feminists are sexist?

    Do you believe someone who believes in equal rights are unfair?

    Do you believe all straight people are homophobic?

    Just because people stand for black rights and equality DOES NOT make them racist.

    Of course Black Lives Matter is racist and feminists are sexist.  Neither of those groups are in the least interested equal rights; they just want to promote their groups and causes to the exclusion and detriment of equality.  How does Black Lives Matter promote Asian causes?  How does Black Lives Matter promote European causes? 

    I can't believe i'm having this argument lol. Why should black lives matter promote asian causes?? Where is the logic in that. 

    Look: feminists are activists for female rights because believe it or not, the hard truth is that they are not equal. This does not mean that they hate men or are sexist in any way. All it means is they are trying to educate people and make things equal. They are not trying to take away the rights of men or take over the world. You have to be empathetic to understand this. 

    Black lives matter is to promote racial equality. I am white. I stand by the black lives matter movement. I do not hate my own kind of people. I am knowledgable to the fact that there is racial inequality and more discrimination against black people than there are against white people. The movement is to solve that and not put make black people superior or to hate on the whites?!

    Based on your logic, if you are an activist for something, then you hate/discriminate against the opposition? Listen to how absurd that sounds.

    You cannot just make a group saying "equality for all" and expect an effective outcome. It's too broad. Nobody will know where to start. That is why it is separated into feminists, black lives matter, environmental activists, and so on.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  

    I can't believe i'm having this argument lol. Why should black lives matter promote asian causes?? Where is the logic in that. 

    Look: feminists are activists for female rights because believe it or not, the hard truth is that they are not equal. This does not mean that they hate men or are sexist in any way. All it means is they are trying to educate people and make things equal. They are not trying to take away the rights of men or take over the world. You have to be empathetic to understand this. 

    Black lives matter is to promote racial equality. I am white. I stand by the black lives matter movement. I do not hate my own kind of people. I am knowledgable to the fact that there is racial inequality and more discrimination against black people than there are against white people. The movement is to solve that and not put make black people superior or to hate on the whites?!

    Based on your logic, if you are an activist for something, then you hate/discriminate against the opposition? Listen to how absurd that sounds.

    You cannot just make a group saying "equality for all" and expect an effective outcome. It's too broad. Nobody will know where to start. That is why it is separated into feminists, black lives matter, environmental activists, and so on.

    So promoting one race's issues over all other races somehow isn't racism?!?  That is, in fact the definition of racism.  If there are laws on the books that treat one race different from another, they should be repealed.  There are a few laws like that, such as Affirmative Action, that have no place in a color-blind society.  The absolute last thing we need is more of such ill-conceived laws.  As for my logic, it's pretty straight-forward.  If you're an activist striving to put one race over others, like Black Lives Matter, you're a racist.  If you're an activist striving to put one sex over another, you're a sexist.  If you're an activist striving to remove laws that put one race over another or one sex over another, you're striving for equality.  I fully support equality of opportunity. That was the basis on which our country was founded. I do not support equality outcome.  That can only lead to disaster.

    The sad and tragic fact is that the civil rights movement, despite its honorable and courageous past, has over the years degenerated into a demagogic hustle, promoting the mindless racism they once fought against. - Thomas Sowell

  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:


    So promoting one race's issues over all other races somehow isn't racism?!?  That is, in fact the definition of racism.  If there are laws on the books that treat one race different from another, they should be repealed.  There are a few laws like that, such as Affirmative Action, that have no place in a color-blind society.  The absolute last thing we need is more of such ill-conceived laws.  As for my logic, it's pretty straight-forward.  If you're an activist striving to put one race over others, like Black Lives Matter, you're a racist.  If you're an activist striving to put one sex over another, you're a sexist.  If you're an activist striving to remove laws that put one race over another or one sex over another, you're striving for equality.  I fully support equality of opportunity. That was the basis on which our country was founded. I do not support equality outcome.  That can only lead to disaster.

    The sad and tragic fact is that the civil rights movement, despite its honorable and courageous past, has over the years degenerated into a demagogic hustle, promoting the mindless racism they once fought against. - Thomas Sowell

    You see this is where you are wrong. Before you generalize on groups of people educate yourself first. Black lives matter does not want to put their race over others at all. That is not their intensions. Where did you hear anyone say that was their intensions. Wow now you think that the civil rights movement was bad? Now you've lost every last bit of my respect. I will pray for you even though i'm not religious lol.

    Talk about being racist while you're the one who wants to keep us whites superior. Have you seen ANY statistics comparing the white population to the blacks? How police treat the two, how society treats the two, how the economy treats the two (wealth disparity)and especially how history has treated the two. The exact same thing applies to feminists. Explain to me why there are feminists who have husbands? This is exactly why groups like black lives matter exist; to educate people like you who do not understand the disparity between the two races.

    To your point about laws that treat one race different from another: Thankfully laws today have been fair in promoting equality, however, it is the people who abuse the laws and this is where racial discrimination is shown. In the last 5 years, laws such as stop and frisk was without a doubt discrimination against the black community. Another is that, besides the fact the law says you may not discriminate to a certain race, ethnicity, religion in your business, many (including trump) still discriminate in business. Trump has denied countless colored people from renting his apartment:https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2017/02/trump-fbi-files-discrimination-case-235067 Laws can not by itself abolish racial discrimination sadly. It will need to get an acceptance to cooperate between its citizens.

    And it's not only a matter of race. Back to the feminists. Look at how in history our society has kept our women in the homes to take care of our children and cook. We have not yet had a female president EVER. June 21, 2018 was the first day women were allowed to DRIVE A CAR in saudi arabia.. drive a car. The number of women running FORTUNE 500 companies in 2000 was three. The rest were men. Now it doesn't make sense to make an activist group calling it rights for men and women. It is not about the men. It is about the women. That does not take anything away from men, all its doing is putting attention on the men to fix a clear problem. Why can't you understand that?

    As I said before, the goal for each of these activist groups is equality NOT dominance. You can not start a group and say equal rights for all because that will not work. it is too broad. Same way you cant start a company and sell everything. You need a niche. And feminists and black lives matter is shedding light on some of the largest issues groups are facing today. If you believe us whites are facing discrimination, feel free to start an activist group to bring awareness to it. It will not mean that you are trying to assert world dominance over your own race so long as your reasoning for starting the activist group is justified.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    You see this is where you are wrong. Before you generalize on groups of people educate yourself first. Black lives matter does not want to put their race over others at all. That is not their intensions. Where did you hear anyone say that was their intensions. Wow now you think that the civil rights movement was bad? Now you've lost every last bit of my respect. I will pray for you even though i'm not religious lol.

    Talk about being racist while you're the one who wants to keep us whites superior. Have you seen ANY statistics comparing the white population to the blacks? How police treat the two, how society treats the two, how the economy treats the two (wealth disparity)and especially how history has treated the two. The exact same thing applies to feminists. Explain to me why there are feminists who have husbands? This is exactly why groups like black lives matter exist; to educate people like you who do not understand the disparity between the two races.

    To your point about laws that treat one race different from another: Thankfully laws today have been fair in promoting equality, however, it is the people who abuse the laws and this is where racial discrimination is shown. In the last 5 years, laws such as stop and frisk was without a doubt discrimination against the black community. Another is that, besides the fact the law says you may not discriminate to a certain race, ethnicity, religion in your business, many (including trump) still discriminate in business. Trump has denied countless colored people from renting his apartment:https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2017/02/trump-fbi-files-discrimination-case-235067 Laws can not by itself abolish racial discrimination sadly. It will need to get an acceptance to cooperate between its citizens.

    And it's not only a matter of race. Back to the feminists. Look at how in history our society has kept our women in the homes to take care of our children and cook. We have not yet had a female president EVER. June 21, 2018 was the first day women were allowed to DRIVE A CAR in saudi arabia.. drive a car. The number of women running FORTUNE 500 companies in 2000 was three. The rest were men. Now it doesn't make sense to make an activist group calling it rights for men and women. It is not about the men. It is about the women. That does not take anything away from men, all its doing is putting attention on the men to fix a clear problem. Why can't you understand that?

    As I said before, the goal for each of these activist groups is equality NOT dominance. You can not start a group and say equal rights for all because that will not work. it is too broad. Same way you cant start a company and sell everything. You need a niche. And feminists and black lives matter is shedding light on some of the largest issues groups are facing today. If you believe us whites are facing discrimination, feel free to start an activist group to bring awareness to it. It will not mean that you are trying to assert world dominance over your own race so long as your reasoning for starting the activist group is justified.


    You support a group who's goals you never even bothered to examine; , but not surprising these days. 
    We demand reparations for past and continuing harms. The government, responsible corporations and other institutions that have profited off of the harm they have inflicted on Black people — from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance — must repair the harm done.

    Support economic empowerment in low-income Black communities, by introducing and implementing cooperative institutions throughout urban and rural Black communities.

    Focus on past and present legislation that supports community economic development to generate employment in Black communities.

    Those are just a few of the many racist goals supported by Black Lives Matter.  They aren't about equality in any manner whatsoever, they're about giving Blacks advantages no other race has ever needed or sought.  I shouldn't have to post this as it is so blatantly obvious, but these days some people aren't intelligent enough to understand that no amount of legislation will ever change the past.  Justice is supposed to be blind, not wielded for revenge, especially generations after the alleged grievances. (Likewise, no law passed in the US will change the circumstances in foreign countries.  I don't know why you'd even bring up Saudi Arabia in this discussion.  Completely irrelevant, particularly idiotic coming from someone who has already complained about straying from the topic.) 

    As to the actual topic, you mentioned the Trump apartments' race discrimination probe.  That investigation began while Donald Trump was still at Wharton, and the policies were not initiated by him;


    although Donald does seem to have been instrumental in changing those policies.
  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:

    Did you even read the very things you yourself wright?


    "We demand reparations for past and continuing harms. The government, responsible corporations and other institutions that have profited off of the harm they have inflicted on Black people — from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance — must repair the harm done.
    Support economic empowerment in low-income Black communities, by introducing and implementing cooperative institutions throughout urban and rural Black communities.
    Focus on past and present legislation that supports community economic development to generate employment in Black communities."



    R.E.P.A.R.A.T.I.O.N.S, NOT ADVANTAGES. You are so feared from losing your white privilege and giving equal opportunity to not only the black community but also to women. You cannot deny the fact the women and black people have been disadvantaged. That is a fact, and if you disagree with me there, then we can just stop the argument at that.

    Now today with the disparity we have today, it is only FAIR to fix it - or TRY.

    You try devaluing my arguments by calling me names, but that does not remove the fact that you are ignorant to what is going around in the world around you. If you support Trump, fine. I respect your opinion. But you think he is this perfect guy and you look right past all the negative things he has said and done and justify with ridiculous claims. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody. The way to tell when someone arguing is bias is when he fails to acknowledge the opposition in any way.

    You think feminists and black lives matter movements are an attempt to attack the opposition.

    I say this not as an insult but as a human being, you need more empathy in your life. You live in a bubble and you filter content into your mind. You are close minded to all the bad things going on to others who are not like you and you fear change. If you walked a day in the shoes of a female aspiring to be a leader, or a black man or woman trying to open their own business you will regret all the things you have said today, because then you will truly understand what you are talking about.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  

    Did you even read the very things you yourself wright?


    "We demand reparations for past and continuing harms. The government, responsible corporations and other institutions that have profited off of the harm they have inflicted on Black people — from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance — must repair the harm done.
    Support economic empowerment in low-income Black communities, by introducing and implementing cooperative institutions throughout urban and rural Black communities.
    Focus on past and present legislation that supports community economic development to generate employment in Black communities."



    R.E.P.A.R.A.T.I.O.N.S, NOT ADVANTAGES. You are so feared from losing your white privilege and giving equal opportunity to not only the black community but also to women. You cannot deny the fact the women and black people have been disadvantaged. That is a fact, and if you disagree with me there, then we can just stop the argument at that.

    Now today with the disparity we have today, it is only FAIR to fix it - or TRY.

    You try devaluing my arguments by calling me names, but that does not remove the fact that you are ignorant to what is going around in the world around you. If you support Trump, fine. I respect your opinion. But you think he is this perfect guy and you look right past all the negative things he has said and done and justify with ridiculous claims. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody. The way to tell when someone arguing is bias is when he fails to acknowledge the opposition in any way.

    You think feminists and black lives matter movements are an attempt to attack the opposition.

    I say this not as an insult but as a human being, you need more empathy in your life. You live in a bubble and you filter content into your mind. You are close minded to all the bad things going on to others who are not like you and you fear change. If you walked a day in the shoes of a female aspiring to be a leader, or a black man or woman trying to open their own business you will regret all the things you have said today, because then you will truly understand what you are talking about.

    And I say this not as an insult but as a human being, you need less empathy and more logic in your life.  Every argument you make comes from what you feel, not any logical train of thought.  Once again, I fully support equality of opportunity.  You want equality of outcome, an idea that is antithetical to the founding principals of our nation. All men are CREATED equal, not all men should always be equal.  You're an incredibly presumptuous person.  You assume you know what I think, you assume you know what Trump thinks, you feel you know what everyone thinks.  Here's another tip; just from my personal experience, you're not very good at it. 

    Explain to me the necessity of reparations. 

  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:

    And I say this not as an insult but as a human being, you need less empathy and more logic in your life.  Every argument you make comes from what you feel, not any logical train of thought.  Once again, I fully support equality of opportunity.  You want equality of outcome, an idea that is antithetical to the founding principals of our nation. All men are CREATED equal, not all men should always be equal.  You're an incredibly presumptuous person.  You assume you know what I think, you assume you know what Trump thinks, you feel you know what everyone thinks.  Here's another tip; just from my personal experience, you're not very good at it. 

    Explain to me the necessity of reparations. 

    Be less empathetic? loll, since when has too much empathy hurt anyone? Do you know the definition of empathy? I like how you attack me personally and disregard my arguments. I have provided you with many facts and not just feelings. 

    You are plagued with white privilege and fail to understand what others are going through, do you not agree? You talk about all men being created equal. Tell me how Stephen Hawking and Usain Bolt are equal. They are both men, and you claim they are both equal, so how are they equal? That saying is not 100% correct. Biologically, not even twins think the same way, like the same things and are the same. Some are born with athletic ability, some are born with intelligent characteristics, some are born with disabilities. 

    It is opportunity which divides us. See if you agree with me on this point: If there is a man and a woman equally as talented, knowledgeable and prepared, it is more likely for the man to get the high position in the company. 

    How about income? A woman on average makes $0.80 for every dollar a man makes. 

    In politics, there has never been a female president in the history of the United States. 

    Now i'm in no way saying the United States is all bad, but again, you are close minded to all the negative that is happening around. "The founding principals" of our nation is not all that great. I just can't understand why you can support equality but demise activists who are trying to fix equality. You can sit there all day and say you support equality but what impact are you actually making? Nothing will change. Activists are the ones actually taking action. (Talk the talk vs. Walk the walk) 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    Be less empathetic? loll, since when has too much empathy hurt anyone? Do you know the definition of empathy? I like how you attack me personally and disregard my arguments. I have provided you with many facts and not just feelings. 
    Empathy tends to cloud logic and reason.   I like how you attack me personally and disregard my arguments, and then complain about me attacking you.

    You are plagued with white privilege and fail to understand what others are going through, do you not agree? You talk about all men being created equal. Tell me how Stephen Hawking and Usain Bolt are equal. They are both men, and you claim they are both equal, so how are they equal? That saying is not 100% correct. Biologically, not even twins think the same way, like the same things and are the same. Some are born with athletic ability, some are born with intelligent characteristics, some are born with disabilities.
    White privilege, LOL, what a joke.  You must be posting from deeeeep inside the bubble to believe that crap.  You're plagued with white guilt.  Fortunately, I don't suffer from your affliction, nor do I tolerate it.  Even you must see the flaw in your belief is that to achieve equality, we need to treat people differently based on their race/sex/religion/insert_protected_class_here.


    It is opportunity which divides us. See if you agree with me on this point: If there is a man and a woman equally as talented, knowledgeable and prepared, it is more likely for the man to get the high position in the company.
    This is more nonsense.  You refuse to admit what is obvious and inarguable.  None of your arguments are based on opportunity, none.  They're all based on outcome and your personal perception of fairness.  The government should have no role in picking winners and losers, only in making sure everyone has an equal opportunity.  If you can prove a company discriminates based on race/sex/ect., then take them to court.   If you just feel a company discriminates based on race/sex/ect., then don't buy their products or use their services. 

    How about income? A woman on average makes $0.80 for every dollar a man makes.

    For the most part, that's voluntary.  Women usually take jobs that pay less.  When working similar jobs, they make nearly as much.  The slight differences are because women are more likely to leave a job than men, and they're not as assertive in negotiating raises, promotions, etc.



    In politics, there has never been a female president in the history of the United States.

    What's your point?  There has never been an Asian president in the history of the United States.  There has never been a Jewish president in the history of the United States.  There has never been an Eskimo president in the history of the United States.  I could go on, but I trust I've made my point.


    Now i'm in no way saying the United States is all bad, but again, you are close minded to all the negative that is happening around. "The founding principals" of our nation is not all that great. I just can't understand why you can support equality but demise activists who are trying to fix equality. You can sit there all day and say you support equality but what impact are you actually making? Nothing will change. Activists are the ones actually taking action. (Talk the talk vs. Walk the walk) 

    The activists are exacerbating the problems.  Most glaring are the problems of the black community.

    The dehumanizing denial that blacks have sovereignty over their lives became national policy in 1965, when President Lyndon Johnson said: "You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line in a race and then say, 'You are free to compete with all the others'." This, Steele writes, enunciated a new social morality: No black problem could be defined as largely a black responsibility. If you were black, you could not be expected to carry responsibilities equal to others'.

    So, being black conferred "an almost reckless moral authority," a "power of racial privilege." The "power to shame, silence and muscle concessions from the larger society" was black power. The demand for equal rights became a demand for "the redistribution of responsibility for black advancement from black to white America, from the 'victims' to the 'guilty'."

    Hence the black militancy's proclaiming "black power" was really an exercise in the power of helplessness. It was an assertion of white power--white society's power to "take" (LBJ's telling word) blacks to social equality. Hence "black power" was actually a denial of the power of blacks to manage their own escape from an intractable inferiority.

    "By the mid-sixties," Steele writes, "white guilt was eliciting an entirely new kind of black leadership, not selfless men like King who appealed to the nation's moral character but smaller men, bargainers, bluffers and haranguers--not moralists but specialists in moral indignation--who could set up a trade with white guilt." The big invention by these small men was what Steele calls "globalized racism." That idea presumes that "racism is not so much an event in black lives as a condition of black life," a product of "impersonal" and "structural" forces. The very invisibility of those forces proved their sinister pervasiveness.

    The theory of "structural" or "institutional" racism postulates a social determinism that makes all whites and American institutions complicit in a vicious cultural pattern. The theory makes the absence of identifiable adverse events in the lives of individual blacks irrelevant to blacks' claims to victimhood. Victim status is a source of endless, sometimes lucrative and always guilt-free leverage over a guilt-ridden society.

    https://www.newsweek.com/white-guilt-deciphered-110827



    Once again, explain to me the necessity of reparations. 




  • beckysmithbeckysmith 34 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:

    You know, this your first argument where I feel you did a decent job, ill give you that. Your point on the wage gap is actually true after looking into it more, even though there IS still a gap, its not as prominent as I initially thought. This does not deny the fact that throughout history up till recently, men have been given promotions over women although they are equally as qualified. Which brings me back to the point on equal opportunity: You think that it is "nonsense", yet you admit that it is true and say that the government shouldn't intervene. Again, I think you see your superior position and want to stay at the top. I don't understand why else you wouldn't want equal opportunity? And I know you're smart enough to know this: if you take a company to court for discrimination you will need a plethora of evidence and be prepared to fight these top lawyers which is an expensive process. Plus why change one company when you can just advocate for equality to all companies. Make it a norm in business environments. 

    Listen closely, this is where we have a miscommunication. Do you understand what activists do? Going back to your initial claim: you believe that Black lives matter is a racist group and feminists are a sexist group. Feminists support a greater cause than just the wage gap which you claim to be not a big issue, fine. How about rape? Many people still don't know that men can even be raped. Tell me rape isn't a big deal and is a cause to stand for. Are they sexist for trying to effectively end rape against women? How about objectifying women? How often do you hear about men being objectified compared to women? How about human trafficking? "According to a new report from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), the vast majority of all human trafficking victims – some 71 per cent – are women and girls and one third are children." [1] How about sexual assault? Now, how about the things you cant see: society's image for how women should be like (men face this too but in a different but probably equally as negative way). Do you think all these issues I stated above is not enough to stand up for and try to fix? 

    "What's your point?  There has never been an Asian president in the history of the United States.  There has never been a Jewish president in the history of the United States.  There has never been an Eskimo president in the history of the United States.  I could go on, but I trust I've made my point." Asians, and Eskimos are both native to the United States. Their population is nowhere near the population of African Americans nor Caucasians. Do you even know the population of the Jewish community in the United States? Around 6 million. Out of the 326 million people we have. They are also originally native, however, their population is increasing. Side note: If Bernie Sanders was elected like he should've been then he would've been the first Jewish president XD

    "The activists are exacerbating the problems. Most glaring are the problems of the black community." Where is the evidence for this? Who is being affected by these activists? 

    "Once again, explain to me the necessity of reparations." I'm not sure if you have ever taken a history class in your life - and if you have - I wonder if you have studied any other race apart from your own. It is a fact that the African American people struggle. Until you are walking on the streets and get stopped by the police for no reason, you will never truly understand because you do lack any sense of empathy. Until you are raped or bounded by society you will never understand what women go through.

    You may actually be right when you say I have white guilt, but I at least have a heart. You are heartless, and filled with entitlement and think about nothing other than yourself and self profit. I am about the well-being for all and not just myself and people the who are like me. 
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