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Should America have gun control?

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    Arguments


  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 471 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @Zombieguy1987 ;

    @Applesauce

    Please explain why you apparently view the below as irrelevant? 

    Is there a difference between being (pro Second Amendment oriented only,) verses a pro gun extremist, being pro Second Amendment oriented as well? 

    When it's in regards to the theme of the forum?

    "Should America have gun control?"


    And as stated before, there is a Gun Control Act already in place:

    "Gun Control Act of 1968"

    "The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA or GCA68) is a U.S. federal law that regulates the firearms industry and firearms owners. It primarily focuses on regulating interstate commerce in firearms by generally prohibiting interstate firearms transfers except among licensed manufacturers, dealers and importers."

    "The GCA was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson on October 22, 1968, and is Title I of the U.S. federal firearms laws. The National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) is Title II. Both GCA and NFA are enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). " 


    And an add on question for you both:

    @Zombieguy1987 ;

    Are you pro Second Amendment only oriented, or are you maybe, a pro gun extremist, while being pro Second Amendment oriented also?

    You sound exactly like @TTKDB, and similar to their questions... This is irrelevant N.E.X.T.!

    @Applesause ;

    Are you pro Second Amendment only oriented, or are you maybe, a pro gun extremist, while being pro Second Amendment oriented also? 


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    Are you pro Second Amendment only oriented, or are you maybe, a pro gun extremist, while being pro Second Amendment oriented also?


    "It's all a matter of perspective.  To an anti gun extremist, anyone who doesn't fully endorse gun bans is a pro gun extremist."

    From your individual perspective, or from the perspective, of someone who is pro Second Amendment only, but not a pro gun extremist, and Second Amendment oriented? 

    Would it be fair to say, that there maybe is a difference? 







    No
    Zombieguy1987
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    I honestly have had all I can take of the idiocy, good luck but I'm out of here, I should have quit a while ago.  Your logic and facts go totally ignored, but props to you for sticking it out this long.
    Zombieguy1987
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    @Applesause

    https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/ward-anderson/americas-obsession-with-guns-is-a-real-mental-illness_a_23231167/

    "America's Obsession With Guns Is A Real Mental Illness

    The country needs to stop pretending that the fetishizing of assault rifles and the fantasizing about armed insurrection are somehow completely normal."


    @CYDdharta

    @Applesauce

    What say the two of you? 
    Zombieguy1987
  • It is not armed insurrection it is a common defense to the general welfare. It is the fact that people who wish to remove a common defense are asking people to assume soul burden of their defense. This added burden comes at the cost of their lives. “The Country needs to is.” becomes a declaration working against independence as it forms a united state not regulated by constitutional principles. Why do you then attempt to Amendment something that is totally unrelated to the real cause? Punishing people who are not the criminal may not be an illness, yet. It’s just illegal while at the same time using cost as a punishment is tyrannical form of governing.

    This type of political posturing places people within the line of fire as the helplessness of unconstitutional action leaves no common defense to their welfare and posterity. Politically the ideal belief is the Country needs other things as well.


  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    Is it any of your business, if some kids, that have nothing to do with you to begin with, who are crying over the other kids, who were killed by an offenders gun violence crimes? 

    Look at the points of view, in how you expressed yourself in regards to (Kids?)

    "If these children are being used to push legislation that would affect me they certainly have something to do with me, and thus it is my business."

    Where's your evidence to support your claims? That some kids are being used to push legislation?

    Do you have a names list, that mentions those kids names, by name?

    And that they are interfering with your gun owning rights, in the way that you're describing?  


    "But what do (kids blubbering) on about evil gun have to do with the theme of the forum?"
    (How should people view the above?)

     "They should be disgusted at seeing children being used by politicians and political operatives to push an agenda that isn't supported by the American public."

    What politicians, or political operatives, are you talking about?

    Do you have a list of their names as well? 


    Zombieguy1987
  • For the record legislation against the United States Constitution, or a member of its Unions the State Constitution, by truth and whole truth, without common defense is an armed insurrection. The 2nd Amendment describes laws as a possible weapon to be altered, or even band completely from the constitutional order. As laws, press itself, is also capable of generating intentional harm to others as an action not petition of grievance to constitutional law.

    This is done by act of military tribunal within the judicial separation and leaves the authorities who assume this burden the responsible of its conflicts of interest if any. The second blade in the hands of blind justice left half naked to judge impartiality not truth, not sexism.


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    @Applesause

    https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/ward-anderson/americas-obsession-with-guns-is-a-real-mental-illness_a_23231167/

    "America's Obsession With Guns Is A Real Mental Illness

    The country needs to stop pretending that the fetishizing of assault rifles and the fantasizing about armed insurrection are somehow completely normal."


    @CYDdharta

    @Applesauce

    What say the two of you? 

    We say "there goes the anti-2nd Amendment guy, posting more leftist trash again".  You're going to go to a failed "comedian" for political advice???  Really???
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    "If these children are being used to push legislation that would affect me they certainly have something to do with me, and thus it is my business."

    Where's your evidence to support your claims? That some kids are being used to push legislation?

    Do you have a names list, that mentions those kids names, by name?

    And that they are interfering with your gun owning rights, in the way that you're describing? 



    You have more of the names than we do; after all, as you keep telling us, you were at the March for our Lives.

    What politicians, or political operatives, are you talking about?

    Do you have a list of their names as well?

    Once again, you were at the March for our Lives, why don't you tell us?

    Zombieguy1987
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 471 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    @Applesause

    https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/ward-anderson/americas-obsession-with-guns-is-a-real-mental-illness_a_23231167/

    Hahahahahaha… HuffingtonPost… You cannot be serious right now...

    They're one of most left wing sites when it comes to gun control

    "America's Obsession With Guns Is A Real Mental Illness


    What a great way to misuse the word Mental illness

    The country needs to stop pretending that the fetishizing of assault rifles and the fantasizing about armed insurrection are somehow completely normal."

    Noone fetishized guns...

    @CYDdharta

    @Applesauce

    What say the two of you? 

    "You have gained three more irrelevant reactions"-DebateIsland circa 2019 colorized  

    Applesauce
  • We have gun control...……..
    We need to go back to better legislation control. That is what is truthfully missing.
    CYDdhartaZombieguy1987
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87

    "We have gun control...……..
    We need to go back to better legislation control. That is what is truthfully missing."

    Even in the face of the 1968 Gun Control law, gun violence is happening every day.

    Non race on race on race, gun violence crimes.

    Race on race, gun violence crimes.

    The mass shootings, gun violence crimes that have occurred.

    How many drive by shootings gun violence crimes happen in the US?

    How many innocent kids have been killed by gun violence, in a car with their families, or at home with their families as well?

    There were two kids, who were shot to death while they were sitting in a vehicle?

    How many Police Officers have been shot while sitting inside of their Police cars? 

    So does the above look like any sort of gun control to any of the pro gun extremist crowd? 

    @CYDdharta

    @Applesause

    Does the above look like any sort of gun control to you, @John_C_87?


    Zombieguy1987
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    Why can't you, with some responsibility, answer the questions, I asked you, without pushing the questions back at me?

    "If these children are being used to push legislation that would affect me they certainly have something to do with me, and thus it is my business."

    @CYDdharta:

    Where's your evidence to support your claims? That some kids are being used to push legislation?

    Do you have a names list, that mentions those kids names, by name?

    And that they are interfering with your gun owning rights, in the way that you're describing?  



    "You have more of the names than we do; after all, as you keep telling us, you were at the March for our Lives."
    (This isnt an answer.)

    @CYDdharta:

    What politicians, or political operatives, are you talking about?Do you have a list of their names as well? 

    "Once again, you were at the March for our Lives, why don't you tell us?"
    (This, isn't an answer either.)

    Why can't you provide a legitimate answer, or some evidence to support your claims? 


  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @Zombieguy1987

    @Applesauce

    @CYDdharta

    "We say "there goes the anti-2nd Amendment guy, posting more leftist trash again".  You're going to go to a failed "comedian" for political advice???  Really?"

    What does the above commentary have to do with the theme of the forum?

    I'm pro Second Amendment (provided that, any US citizen isn't having an offender or a criminal using their weapon, to commit any gun violence crimes, against any other US citizen?)
    Along with being pro community, pro family, and pro law abiding.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @John_C_87

    "We have gun control...……..
    We need to go back to better legislation control. That is what is truthfully missing."

    Even in the face of the 1968 Gun Control law, gun violence is happening every day.

    Non race on race on race, gun violence crimes.

    Race on race, gun violence crimes.

    The mass shootings, gun violence crimes that have occurred.

    How many drive by shootings gun violence crimes happen in the US?

    How many innocent kids have been killed by gun violence, in a car with their families, or at home with their families as well?

    There were two kids, who were shot to death while they were sitting in a vehicle?

    How many Police Officers have been shot while sitting inside of their Police cars? 

    So does the above look like any sort of gun control to any of the pro gun extremist crowd? 

    @CYDdharta

    @Applesause

    Does the above look like any sort of gun control to you, @John_C_87?



    Does the Gun Control Act of 1968 look like we have gun control???

    YES!!!


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    (This, isn't an answer either.)

    Why can't you provide a legitimate answer, or some evidence to support your claims? 



    It is an answer befitting the question.  I have already posted proof that the March for our Lives campaign was produced by a Hollywood reality show producer backed by Bloomberg's gun-banning money.  If that's not enough, ask a legitimate question.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @Zombieguy1987

    @Applesauce

    @CYDdharta

    "We say "there goes the anti-2nd Amendment guy, posting more leftist trash again".  You're going to go to a failed "comedian" for political advice???  Really?"

    What does the above commentary have to do with the theme of the forum?

    I'm pro Second Amendment (provided that, any US citizen isn't having an offender or a criminal using their weapon, to commit any gun violence crimes, against any other US citizen?)
    Along with being pro community, pro family, and pro law abiding.

    You are NOT pro 2nd Amendment!  You want to change the 2nd Amendment (in some fashion, you've never stated how it should be changed, only that it should be changed).  People who are pro 2nd Amendment are happy with it the way it is.
    Applesauce
  • @TKDB ;

    In whole truth TKDB yes it looks just like gun control. Is it what law makes expect as amendments to independence are made on United States constitution and not the state of criminal independence? No. It still looks like gun control to me, truthfully and honestly. The gun and its misuse is being the facture of control to create a justification to abuse United States Common defense to the general welfare. The criminal is forcing lawmakers and the general pubic to punish the citizen without their trial, unlike the suspected criminal.

    Can you confine the self-value and cost placed on the words limit on gun control as grievance to independence?


  • Again the 2nd Amendment to any United States, Constitutional or not, as right to common defense does not address gun ownership. The changes is made to the formation of peaceable assembly to include those who are owners of fire-arm. Any court ruling including Supreme Court is up for argument of appeal when this principle is shared as the grounds for legal precedent for removal of a right that is not represented in its change made on Constitutional precedent. The 2nd Amendment clearly states a militia is a well-armed assembly that would be brought to bear to preserve liberty. The defense of Freedom in any state is a preservation made also as a limit to cost and self-value.   Not a promotion of recklessness.   


  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    The below is my position:

    (I'm pro Second Amendment (provided that, any US citizen isn't having an offender or a criminal using their weapon, to commit any gun violence crimes, against any other US citizen?) Along with being pro community, pro .family, and pro law abiding.)

    And I would appreciate it, if you would refrain, from apparently trying to mindfully pervert my Second Amendment position, with these words from you:

    "You are NOT pro 2nd Amendment!  You want to change the 2nd Amendment (in some fashion, you've never stated how it should be changed, only that it should be changed).  People who are pro 2nd Amendment are happy with it the way it is."

    You're not going to tell me, what my position is, and I'll thank you, to respectfully leave my position alone.
    Zombieguy1987
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    "Does the Gun Control Act of 1968 look like we have gun control???

    YES!!!"

    You're sure about your (YES) answer, with the below realities staring your answer in the face?

    Gun violence is happening every day.

    Non race on race on race, gun violence crimes?

    They have not happened since 1968?

    Race on race, gun violence crimes.

    They have not happened since 1968?

    The mass shootings, gun violence crimes that have occurred.

    They have not happened since 1968?

    How many drive by shootings gun violence crimes happen in the US?

    They have not happened since 1968?

    How many innocent kids have been killed by gun violence, in a car with their families, or at home with their families as well?

    They have not happened since 1968?

    There were two kids, who were shot to death while they were sitting in a vehicle?

    They have not happened since 1968?

    How many Police Officers have been shot while sitting inside of their Police cars? 

    They have not happened since 1968? 

    So all of the gun violence crimes that have occurred since 1968, all of them are maybe lies, right?

    None of the school mass shootings never happened right? 

    The Vegas mass shootings, gun violence crime was maybe, a lie as well right? 

    The March For Our Lives in DC, was just a big lie, all of the news media outlets were in with that big lie, to interfere with your individual right to own your own guns, right?

    So all of the gun violence that's occurred since 1968, its a massive nation wide conspiracy, plotting against the Second Amendment, with the thousands of gun violence crimes, all being made up by the victims of the families, and the news media outlets, all working together, to come after the guns belonging to the law abiding gun own right? 

    There haven't been any gun violence crimes, since 1968, because we have gun control? 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    The below is my position:

    (I'm pro Second Amendment (provided that, any US citizen isn't having an offender or a criminal using their weapon, to commit any gun violence crimes, against any other US citizen?) Along with being pro community, pro .family, and pro law abiding.)

    And I would appreciate it, if you would refrain, from apparently trying to mindfully pervert my Second Amendment position, with these words from you:

    "You are NOT pro 2nd Amendment!  You want to change the 2nd Amendment (in some fashion, you've never stated how it should be changed, only that it should be changed).  People who are pro 2nd Amendment are happy with it the way it is."

    You're not going to tell me, what my position is, and I'll thank you, to respectfully leave my position alone.

    Someone needs to tell you what your position is, you don't seem to understand it. 
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    "Does the Gun Control Act of 1968 look like we have gun control???

    YES!!!"

    You're sure about your (YES) answer, with the below realities staring your answer in the face?

    Gun violence is happening every day.

    Non race on race on race, gun violence crimes?

    They have not happened since 1968?

    Race on race, gun violence crimes.

    They have not happened since 1968?

    The mass shootings, gun violence crimes that have occurred.

    They have not happened since 1968?

    How many drive by shootings gun violence crimes happen in the US?

    They have not happened since 1968?

    How many innocent kids have been killed by gun violence, in a car with their families, or at home with their families as well?

    They have not happened since 1968?

    There were two kids, who were shot to death while they were sitting in a vehicle?

    They have not happened since 1968?

    How many Police Officers have been shot while sitting inside of their Police cars? 

    They have not happened since 1968? 

    So all of the gun violence crimes that have occurred since 1968, all of them are maybe lies, right?

    None of the school mass shootings never happened right? 

    The Vegas mass shootings, gun violence crime was maybe, a lie as well right? 

    The March For Our Lives in DC, was just a big lie, all of the news media outlets were in with that big lie, to interfere with your individual right to own your own guns, right?

    So all of the gun violence that's occurred since 1968, its a massive nation wide conspiracy, plotting against the Second Amendment, with the thousands of gun violence crimes, all being made up by the victims of the families, and the news media outlets, all working together, to come after the guns belonging to the law abiding gun own right? 

    There haven't been any gun violence crimes, since 1968, because we have gun control? 

    Those are all things that have occurred IN SPITE of having gun control.  What gun control legislation would prevent any of those event from ever happening again?

    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • @TKDB ;

    "There haven't been any gun violence crimes, since 1968, because we have gun control?" 


    Gun control is not crime control they are not the same thing, and better yet a United States citizen’s right to own a gun does not come from the 2nd Amendment. It is a United State Constitutional law in common defense. Any and all control has dictated who has been unarmed to be shot.

    The person who holds the gun in a shooting is not always responsible for a mas shooting. Just as someone can beat someone, or several people to death with a gun and it is still a violent crime without any shooting taking place. The suggestions made by use of unconstitutional gun law, laws not set to confine the independence which is created by the criminal, is an amendment made on the Common defense to the general welfare as it is this right which is held in U.S. Constitution. So what does that mean by 2nd Amendment in American English? It means legislation is be moving where the weapon arm of law is in the wrong place/position period.


  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87

    Are you a defense attorney? 

    "The suggestions made by use of unconstitutional gun law, laws not set to confine the independence which is created by the criminal, is an amendment made on the Common defense to the general welfare as it is this right which is held in U.S. Constitution. So what does that mean by 2nd Amendment in American English? It means legislation is be moving where the weapon arm of law is in the wrong place/position period."

    I wish that the gun violence victims who have survived the mass shootings, at their schools had a bigger voice in this very debate.

    Instead of the pro gun extremists, voicing their opinions, from within the confines of a debate forum, instead of doing it in real life, around the victims who survived various gun violence crimes.

    Because at the rally, I saw one pro gun individual, wearing his freedom of speech on his shirt, and he wasn't saying anything to anyone. 

    That's the real life difference between a debate forum, and a rally where the survivors of gun violence, expressed their selves, and then had some creating stories, about who was using them, to push any sort of a narrative, with no facts to back up the made up claims.

    That's the real life difference, between the internet, and a rally where human beings were being real with each other. 

    If there are murders being committed each year, via gun violence crimes.
    IE non race on race murders, race on race murders, a parent going home, and then killing their own family, and then committing suicide, drive by shootings that have killed kids, and police officers being killed in the line of duty? 

    Those guns, being used to commit those crimes, somethings not adding up right, with the amount of illegal guns in the country, verses the lawfully owned ones?

    Gun control needs to be addressed, because enough innocent lives, have been taken, by the offenders and criminals with guns, infringing on the rights of innocent people, by having gun violence crimes illegally being committed against them?
    Zombieguy1987
  • @TKDB ;

    I am a man defending the United States Constitution. I wish a friend lived past his shooting, robbery, it did not happen. It was long before the shooting issues in relationship to school, bathroom bombings were the thing, and his death wasn’t our area’s run of the mill occasional hunting, or gun cleaning accident.

    If using statistics of crime as it relates to gun fatality along with gun related violence the statistics of crimes stopped by gun’s and their proper application must be accounted for and weighed against them. The judicial separation has a scale with to empty pans to fill. To not do so is a crime in itself the crime is called fraud, also the statistic of use with common defense like the ballistic shield should be made, along with other available precaution/protections alone this avenue. This is how fires and many deadly issues are normally dealt with publicly. The legislation of United States Constitutional right is not an attack on the unconstitutional attack made by criminal in their pursuits of independence. that is really what has been brought to the table here. They are not even on the same the same precedent held in documentation of legislation, Independence, constitution, as a whole truth. 

     So;I would not expect this type of constitutional responsibility from a person grieving loss. A child. an adult. I was in 11th grade at the time of his shooting the violence of his death was not school related, it was on the job. However if he had been armed with his hunting gun there is no doubt he would be the one that walk away. He would have had at least the chance to throw the money on the ground and walk away, it was so little money.




  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    A thought, maybe gun control, in a sense, belongs to the offenders and criminals?

    Because when it comes the amounts of gun violence being committed by them, their gun violence crimes, have been, and are in the news, more than the other various things that are in the news?

    And there's no amount of any type of pro gun extremist, Second Amendment narrative talking points, that are going to be able to downplay that.

    You cant downplay the previous mass shootings, or the gun violence crimes in general.

    No matter how much you dislike the preamble to the Second Amendment being left alone. 
     


    Zombieguy1987
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Guns on demand? How prolife of conservatives.
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Zombieguy1987

    Prove why the below is irrelevant to you?

    A thought, maybe gun control, in a sense, belongs to the offenders and criminals?

    Because when it comes the amounts of gun violence being committed by them, their gun violence crimes, have been, and are in the news, more than the other various things that are in the news?

    And there's no amount of any type of pro gun extremist, Second Amendment narrative talking points, that are going to be able to downplay that.

    You cant downplay the previous mass shootings, or the gun violence crimes in general.

    No matter how much you dislike the preamble to the Second Amendment being left alone.  
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -  
    Guns on demand? How prolife of conservatives.
    how many guns and gun owners are there in the U.S.?
    how many gun murders take place in the U.S.? 
    what % of murders are legal gun owners?
    now do the math.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Applesauce

    "how many guns and gun owners are there in the U.S.?"

    From Wikipedia:

    "Gun ownership is the act of owning agun. In 2018, Small Arms Survey reported that there are over one billion small arms distributed globally, of which 857 million (about 85 percent) are in civilian hands.

    U.S.
     civilians alone account for 393 million (about 46 percent) of the worldwide total of civilian held firearms"

    how many gun murders take place in the U.S.?"

    From Wikipedia:

    "Firearms were used to kill 13,286 people in the U.S. in 2015, excluding suicide. Approximately 1.4 million people have died from firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011. This number includes all deaths resulting from a firearm, including suicides, homicides, and accidents."

    what percentage of murders are legal gun owners? now do the math.

    From Wikipedia:

    "What percentage of murders are committed with guns?

    In the U.S. in 2011, 67 percent of homicide victims were killed using a firearm: 66 percent of single-victim homicides and 79 percent of multiple-victim homicides.
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Applesauce

    What are your thoughts on the below? 

    A thought, maybe gun control, in a sense, belongs to the offenders and criminals?

    Because when it comes the amounts of gun violence being committed by them, their gun violence crimes, have been, and are in the news, more than the other various things that are in the news?

    And there's no amount of any type of pro gun extremist, Second Amendment narrative talking points, that are going to be able to downplay that.

    You can't downplay the previous mass shootings, or the gun violence crimes in general.

    No matter how much you dislike the preamble to the Second Amendment being left alone.   
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @Applesauce

    What are your thoughts on the below? 

    A thought, maybe gun control, in a sense, belongs to the offenders and criminals?

    Because when it comes the amounts of gun violence being committed by them, their gun violence crimes, have been, and are in the news, more than the other various things that are in the news?

    And there's no amount of any type of pro gun extremist, Second Amendment narrative talking points, that are going to be able to downplay that.

    You can't downplay the previous mass shootings, or the gun violence crimes in general.

    No matter how much you dislike the preamble to the Second Amendment being left alone.   

    Naturally, being anti-2nd Amendment, you never look at the other side of the issue.

    As to defensives uses of guns, the CDC report said, "Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was 'used' by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies. ... Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008."

    Guns are significantly more likely to be used to STOP crimes than commit them, in fact, from 2 times to 10 times more likely.  Why don't those 500,000 to 3,000,000 people per year count to you?  Why do you want to leave so many people helpless?


    Applesauce
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    "Naturally, being anti-2nd Amendment, you never look at the other side of the issue."

    Do you have the ability to think for me? 

    Do you have my brain along with your brain, within the same confines of your skull, CYDdharta? 

    Program my brain, with some of your pro gun Second Amendment extremist dialect. because you have the gift, to tell people how they think according to your pro gun extremist narratives?

    Show gun control, that CYDdharta is the brain, in charge of how gun control is going to be talked to?

    Because when it comes to the Second Amendment it belongs to you, and the innocent kids and adults killed by guns, where do their gun violence deaths, fit into your pro Second Amendment gun extremist mindset at? 



  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    https://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/how-many-lives-are-saved-by-guns-and-why-dont-gun-controllers-care/

    Does this website, maybe read like a Second Amendment pro gun extremists bible? 


  • @TKDB ;

     Laws are now point at, not down, I suggest highly you know and not think you know in which direction they point. 

    They are a 2nd Amendment weapon. Remember all that Amendment does is describe clearly it is a group which can bring forth a weapon to bear as it is freedom which is defended and has no written or spoken cost, or self value. 

    Criminals are in pursuit of independence and the forcible removal the same, only sometimes with use of fire-arm, not always. This is the basic principle in connection crime makes to law, as state that is creating any union with all criminals is the removal of personal property. This can include fire-arms as well as any other things people may hold of cost and value. Propriety a liberty of independence. 

    The law is being foolishly created to add punishment for those who wrongfully take common things from rightful people who are defending the United States constitution. No down play of any shooting, be it mass group, or not, effective legislation in line with motives for efficacy to the process of judicial separation instead of laws as political short cuts to deals will revers the political motive producing the results we see today with shooting in public as a whole.

    The 2nd Amendment has no preamble in the course of change of united state constitution, including its preamble, The  changes on it do not effect any  right from a declaration of independence. Crime is an act of independence and Law is an act of constitution. In America it was a United State Constitution. Meanwhile; youth ask the question why aren’t the law working, the answer there are told. Sorry, not enough laws, really this explanation is appropriate to you? Laws addressing harm directly are going ignored and the tool of harm makes a difference in these matter outside of political deals?

    To say it clearly the negligence is not on any owner of a gun in mass shooting it is in the public for not following a precedent already legally in place for the common defense of human welfare. The crime is the burden of the gun holder/user.



  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    https://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/how-many-lives-are-saved-by-guns-and-why-dont-gun-controllers-care/

    Does this website, maybe read like a Second Amendment pro gun extremists bible? 


    No
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    A form of (gun control,) inspired by you, if I owned a hypothetical gun shop, and you came into the shop, and while you were inside roaming around, and expressing your pro gun extremist narratives, and you maybe showed some interest in seeing a particular gun, and after you looked at it, and you decided, that you wanted to purchase said gun, I would not be able to sell a weapon to you. 

    So the only solution, to be had from reading your individual narratives, would be to refrain from selling you a hypothetical gun, and that solution, could be a form of gun control, that I could utilize, given your pro Second Amendment gun extremist stance? 

    And I would have that right, wouldn't I CYDdharta? 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    A form of (gun control,) inspired by you, if I owned a hypothetical gun shop, and you came into the shop, and while you were inside roaming around, and expressing your pro gun extremist narratives, and you maybe showed some interest in seeing a particular gun, and after you looked at it, and you decided, that you wanted to purchase said gun, I would not be able to sell a weapon to you. 

    So the only solution, to be had from reading your individual narratives, would be to refrain from selling you a hypothetical gun, and that solution, could be a form of gun control, that I could utilize, given your pro Second Amendment gun extremist stance? 

    And I would have that right, wouldn't I CYDdharta? 

    No, of course someone who wants to overturn the 2nd Amendment would get it wrong.

    What would be the LEGAL justification for denying the purchase?  And what are pro gun extremist narratives?

  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    "No, of course someone who wants to overturn the 2nd Amendment would get it wrong."

    Where is your individual evidence to support your above rhetoric? 

    Who is this someone, that you are alluding to? 

    "What would be the LEGAL justification for denying the purchase?"

    Doesn't any business owner have the right to not provide a service to any individual?

    Is it stated within the preamble of the Second Amendment, that a individual seeking a firearm from a gun shop, has the right to purchase a firearm, at the customers request, because the Second Amendment says so? 

    "And what are pro gun extremist narratives?"

    Aren't you a pro gun extremist? 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    "No, of course someone who wants to overturn the 2nd Amendment would get it wrong."

    Where is your individual evidence to support your above rhetoric? 

    Who is this someone, that you are alluding to?
    That would, of course, be you; as you're the only one who has said the 2nd Amendment needs to be changed.


    Doesn't any business owner have the right to not provide a service to any individual?

    Is it stated within the preamble of the Second Amendment, that a individual seeking a firearm from a gun shop, has the right to purchase a firearm, at the customers request, because the Second Amendment says so? 

    No, in fact, the opposite has already been established.  Business do NOT have the right to deny their services.  If a bakery can be forced to bake a cake and a photographer can be forced to take pictures of a wedding, there had better be a good (as in LEGAL) reason to deny someone rights that are spelled out in the Constitution.


    "And what are pro gun extremist narratives?"

    Aren't you a pro gun extremist?

    No, I'm pro-2nd Amendment.
    ApplesauceZombieguy1987
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    A gun shop is far different from a bakery, therefore you would be denied.

    So what reason would you use to pursue buying a gun from my shop, if I already told you no? 
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    "That would, of course, be you; as you're the only one who has said the 2nd Amendment needs to be changed."

    Wrong. My position again, (I'm pro Second Amendment (provided that, any US citizen isn't having an offender or a criminal using their weapon, to commit any gun violence crimes, against any other US citizen?) 
    Along with being pro community, pro family, and pro law abiding.)


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    "That would, of course, be you; as you're the only one who has said the 2nd Amendment needs to be changed."

    Wrong. My position again, (I'm pro Second Amendment (provided that, any US citizen isn't having an offender or a criminal using their weapon, to commit any gun violence crimes, against any other US citizen?) 
    Along with being pro community, pro family, and pro law abiding.)



    Wrong.  MY position I'm pro Second Amendment (provided that, any US citizen isn't having an offender or a criminal using their weapon, to commit any gun violence crimes, against any other US citizen?) 
    Along with being pro community, pro family, and pro law abiding.

    You want the 2nd Amendment changed to read;

    Amendment 2
    - The Right to Bear Arms

    Amending the Second Amendment, so that it addresses the offenders and criminals who used their weapons in an illegaI manner, thus abusing their second amendment rights? 
    That addresses, those gun owners who lawfully purchased their weapon, but then used that lawfully purchased gun to commit gun violence with it? 
    This way the victims of gun violence and the families, are recognized within the preamble of the Second Amendment, just as the first time offenders and criminals are for their crimes of gun violence? 
    Fair and equal representation, being represented within the dialogue of the Second Amendment itself?


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    A gun shop is far different from a bakery, therefore you would be denied.

    So what reason would you use to pursue buying a gun from my shop, if I already told you no? 

    It would depend on the jurisdiction. If you're talking about a city that, like you, is also anti-2nd Amendment, for instance Morton Grove IL, then they'd probably side any excuse to deny people their 2nd Amendment rights.  If, on the other hand, you're talking about someplace like Kennesaw, GA or Virgin, UT, where firearm ownership mandatory then probably not.



  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    @Zombieguy1987 Yo fail to realize that prolife is to value all life. If abortion is murder, so is shooting someone. You don't have the right to take a life. THAT sir, is what prolife is supposed to mean. Oh, I do believe in self defense. Anyone who tries to kill me will end up on the ground. I reserve the right to live, as I would never endanger someone's life. Don't make the mistake of thinking I am a pacifist. I am going to make a debate to educate you people on how to be CONSISTANTLY prolife. I expect you to participate. Know this: I will never cause you harm, and would lay down my very own life to save yours, so I have the right to not be killed by you. My reason: I am a Christian, and value your life more than my own. You can say what you want to or about me, but don't you DARE accuse me of threatening people, for that violates the love your neighbor as yourself COMMANDMENT I choose to obey. Are we crystal clear, or do i have to explain it again?
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5970 Pts   -  
    Person A wants to sell an item.
    Person B wants to buy an item.
    Person C does not approve of the transaction.

    Who should get their way? The answer is obvious. Person C cannot tell person B, "Oh, I think these socks will not look good on you, so your transaction is cancelled!" Person C cannot also say, "I think you should pay me your fair share, hence I take a 15% cut off your transaction".

    Yet, if the role of the person C is played by the government, then suddenly their demand is seen as reflective of the greater good principle.

    I am looking forward to the day when we end these authoritarian debates once and for all, and just let people interact with each other consensually however they please. With no taxes, with no "bans", with no mandatory background checks. One person sells, another person buys. That's it. 
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 471 Pts   -  
    @Zombieguy1987 Yo fail to realize that prolife is to value all life. If abortion is murder, so is shooting someone. 

    That's not what the definition means... So you're wrong again

    You don't have the right to take a life. 

    If someone is threating my life, then I do have the right to shoot them. It's called self defense

    THAT sir, is what prolife is supposed to mean. 

    Not according to the definition...

    Oh, I do believe in self defense. Anyone who tries to kill me will end up on the ground. 

    Then why do you want to ban guns? That seems contradictory when me and @CYDdharta gave reasons why to own a gun.

    I reserve the right to live, as I would never endanger someone's life. 

    But you just said you support self defense, which means someone's life IS endanger!

    Don't make the mistake of thinking I am a pacifist. I am going to make a debate to educate you people on how to be CONSISTANTLY prolife. 

    mmmmmmmmmmmmm… You've failed miserably to educate people when you change what pro-life means. 

    I expect you to participate. Know this: I will never cause you harm, 

    You've given me a headache due to your laughable arguments

    and would lay down my very own life to save yours, so I have the right to not be killed by you. 

    My reason: I am a Christian, 

    Yawn

    and value your life more than my own. You can say what you want to or about me, but don't you DARE accuse me of threatening people,

    You accused me and @CYDdharta of false claims of violence

    for that violates the love your neighbor as yourself COMMANDMENT I choose to obey. Are we crystal clear, or do i have to explain it again?

    Off topic...

  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    No answers for the below?

    "Naturally, being anti-2nd Amendment, you never look at the other side of the issue."

    Do you have the ability to think for me? 

    Do you have my brain along with your brain, within the same confines of your skull, CYDdharta? 

    Program my brain, with some of your pro gun Second Amendment extremist dialect. because you have the gift, to tell people how they think according to your pro gun extremist narratives?

    Show gun control, that CYDdharta is the brain, in charge of how gun control is going to be talked to?

    Because when it comes to the Second Amendment it belongs to you, and the innocent kids and adults killed by guns, where do their gun violence deaths, fit into your pro Second Amendment gun extremist mindset at?  
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/01/24/sebring-florida-bank-gunman-opens-fire-suntrust-bank/2665550002/

    "Suntrust Bank shooting suspect 'always hated people and wanted everyone to die,' ex-girlfriend says"


    "An ex-girlfriend of the man accused of killing five people in a Florida bank says he "always hated people" but that she thought nothing of it when he recently bought a gun.

    A judge on Thursday ordered former prison guard trainee Zephen Xaver, 21, held without bond, one day after he barricaded himself in a bank in Sebring and opened fire, then called 911 and announced "I have shot five people."

    Xaver recently relocated to central Floridafrom Indiana. Alex Gerlach told WSBT-TV in Indiana she had an on-and-off relationship with Xaver for two years, and had kept in contact every few months since. She said he often talked about wanting to hurt people.

    "I never understood where it started," she told the station. "For some reason (he) always hated people and wanted everyone to die." 

    She said he bought a gun last week, but that she and others had shrugged it off because he alway liked guns.

    “Every single person I’ve told has not taken it seriously, and it’s very unfortunate that it had to come to this,” Gerlach said.

    "Sebring Mayor John Shoop said his close-knit community was rocked by the attack and that "tragedies like this are not supposed to happen here."

    "Acts like this cannot deter us from living our lives freely from fear and deprivation," the mayor added. "The path turned dark today, but as we move on we will grow stronger." 


    The supposed gun control, that has been reiterated on, is pretty much, an apparent, non existent illusion, as long as first time gun violence crimes continue to sadly be committed, along with criminally perpetrated gun violence crimes as well?


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