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Should America have gun control?

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  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @CYDdharta

    Is the below, what could be called a gun owners sales pitch, with the below points of view from you? 

    Secondly, when it comes to your gun ownership, is the media in general maybe in a sense lying, about your second amendment rights during their news coverages?

    And third, is gun ownership maybe a civil rights issue?

    Or maybe as well, an NAACP, and an ACLU issue? 

    "If you expect the perspective gun buyer to pay for it, you're adding a burden to the poor and elderly, people who are already disproportionately victimized but crime.  How can you trust the people doing the evaluations to be fair?  The medical community has a long history of antagonism against private ownership of firearms.  As I have stated previously, that would deter gun owners and prospective gun owners from trying to get medical help when they need it lest their doctor decides to use it against them if and when they try to purchase a gun.  And as always, that wouldn't stop mass shootings and other attacks sensationalized by the media."

    Do you realize how much you talk up the narrative, about criminals committing crimes, and or mass shootings, with such a matter of factly perception, because you're a gun owner, and you apparenlty disprove of the words (firearm, gun, or weapon), being talked about in a negative light because of a criminals gun violence, don't you? 

    Is that how you feel? 
    CYDdhartaZombieguy1987
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -  
    not surprisingly this has gone off the rails.
    What we can agree on, people shouldn't kill/harm other people (why or how they do that shouldn't matter)
    There are laws against killing/harming people and yet it happens anyway.

    Punishment and or incarceration isn't feared as it once was, thus laws and punishments have lost some if not a lot of it's effectiveness
    Punishments aren't severe and consistent enough (great example is looking the prosecution rate of felons who get caught by the NICS check, hint it's extremely low)

    In short we have laws that are not consistently enforced or not enforced at all, the punishments are too light and not enough of a deterrent to stop people from breaking them.

    Star Trek Next Gen, planet where no one breaks the law....ever, when asked why, answer, because every punishment is death, so who would risk breaking the law?  Not that i'm suggesting this, but as you can see if the crime isn't worth the punishment, it's not worth committing.  Something to consider.
    Zombieguy1987
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    Is the below, what could be called a gun owners sales pitch, with the below points of view from you? 

    Secondly, when it comes to your gun ownership, is the media in general maybe in a sense lying, about your second amendment rights during their news coverages?

    And third, is gun ownership maybe a civil rights issue?

    Or maybe as well, an NAACP, and an ACLU issue? 

    "If you expect the perspective gun buyer to pay for it, you're adding a burden to the poor and elderly, people who are already disproportionately victimized but crime.  How can you trust the people doing the evaluations to be fair?  The medical community has a long history of antagonism against private ownership of firearms.  As I have stated previously, that would deter gun owners and prospective gun owners from trying to get medical help when they need it lest their doctor decides to use it against them if and when they try to purchase a gun.  And as always, that wouldn't stop mass shootings and other attacks sensationalized by the media."

    Do you realize how much you talk up the narrative, about criminals committing crimes, and or mass shootings, with such a matter of factly perception, because you're a gun owner, and you apparenlty disprove of the words (firearm, gun, or weapon), being talked about in a negative light because of a criminals gun violence, don't you? 

    Is that how you feel? 

    I'm here to debate, not discuss my feelings.  Do you have anything pertinent to add?
    Zombieguy1987
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @CYDdharta

    The below is pertinent,

    The youth, who have been murdered by a criminal wielding a gun is wrong.

    Despite the Second Amendment, and what it says.

    Adults and senior citizens, being murdered by a criminal wielding a gun is wrong.

    Despite how you feel about your own weapons.

    Regardless of how a criminal murdering innocent people with a gun, and the public is maybe being told, in a round about way, by some of the gun owners, criminals are going to hurt, innocent people with guns? 

    So maybe get used to some of the criminals, harming innocent people with guns, and there's really nothing, that anyone can do, because criminals kill with guns, because some of the law abiding gun owners maybe say so? 

    CYDdharta, do you have a counter argument for the above? 

    What are you trying to do, debate around the innocent people who have been killed by gun violence, who had their own rights taken from them because a criminal killed them with a gun? 

    Because criminals have killed innocent people with guns, and the gun owners have weapons as well, doesn't the debate about gun control, include life and death situations, because of the life and death occurances that have been made a part of the debate? 

    The school shootings, are a part of the debate.

    The shootings at a church, are a part of the debate.

    The shootings in Vegas, are a part of the debate.

    The gun violence, that happens across the country, day after day, and year after year, are a part of the debate.

    Because the offenders with their weapons, and their committed crimes against innocent people, made their crimes, a part of the gun debate in the country, pulling the second amendment, and the news media and it's news  coverage, into the debate as well because the criminals and their gun violence, pulled the country itself into the debate because we as a society, are affected by the loss of life, because of the gun violence that permeates throughout the country day after day, and year after year? 

    So all of the above, are all, 
    justifiably parts of the gun control debate. 

    CYDdhartaApplesauceZombieguy1987
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    The below is pertinent,

    The youth, who have been murdered by a criminal wielding a gun is wrong.

    Despite the Second Amendment, and what it says.

    Adults and senior citizens, being murdered by a criminal wielding a gun is wrong.

    Despite how you feel about your own weapons.

    Regardless of how a criminal murdering innocent people with a gun, and the public is told by some of the gun owners, criminals ate going to murder innocent people with guns. 

    So maybe get used to some of the criminals killing innocent people with guns, and there's nothing that anyone can do, because criminals kill with guns, because some of the law abiding gun owners say so? 

    CYDdharta, do you have a counter argument for the above? 

    What are you trying to do, debate around the innocent people who have been killed by gun violence, who had their own rights taken from them because a criminal killed them with a gun? 

    Because criminals have killed innocent people with guns, and the gun owners have weapons as well, doesn't the debate about gun control, include life and death situations, because of the life and death occurances that have been made a part of the debate? 

    The school shootings, are a part of the debate.

    The shootings at a church, are a part of the debate.

    The shootings in Vegas, are a part of the debate.

    The gun violence, that happens across the country, day after day, and year after year, are a part of the debate.

    Because the offenders with their weapons, and their committed crimes against innocent people, made their crimes, a part of the gun debate in the country, pulling the second amendment, and the news media and it's news  coverage, into the debate as well because the criminals and their gun violence, pulled the country itself into the debate because we as a society, are affected by the loss of life, because of the gun violence that permeates throughout the country day after day, and year after year? 

    So all of the above, are all, 
    justifiably parts of the gun control debate. 


    Great, those crimes should all be made illegal.  Oh, wait; they ALREADY ARE ILLEGAL, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE CALLED CRIMES.  What point are you trying to make?  YOU HAVEN'T SUGGESTED ANYTHING THAT WOULD STOP THOSE CRIMES.  Apparently you do not have anything pertinent to add.

    ApplesauceZombieguy1987
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @CYDdharta

    Here you go: 

    The below is a phenomenal piece of history.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_for_Our_Lives

    Some excerpts from the webpage; 

    "The March for Our Lives (MFOL)[4] was a student-led demonstration in support of stronger gun violence prevention measures. It took place in Washington, D.C. on March 24, 2018, with over 880 sibling events throughout the United States and around the world,[5][6][7][8][9] and was planned by student organizers from Never Again MSD in collaboration with the nonprofit organizationEverytown for Gun Safety.[10] The event followed the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida on February 14, 2018, which was described by several media outlets as a possible tipping point for gun control legislation.[11][12][13]

    These individuals, were a part of the rally:

    1.2+ million protestors across the United States; more globally.[2][3]
    Website

    marchforourlives.com 




    You could, reach out to David Hogg, and ask him to add his conversation to this debate as well, couldn't we? 


    CYDdhartaZombieguy1987Applesauce
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -  
    @TTKDB
    Despite the Second Amendment, and what it says.

    You don't seem to understand what it says, or better yet what it doesn't say, it doesn't give anyone the right to murder someone else.  So your examples are irrelevant.

    Criminals murder people with other things BESIDES guns.

    Here's some homework for you.  What % of gun crimes are committed by people who are already felons and are prohibited from having guns for whatever reason?

    How do you stop someone from getting a gun who can't legally have one?

    What are the top 2 reasons murders occur?  What are solutions to them?

    Zombieguy1987
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @Applesauce

    The (non criminal) pro gun crowd, without fail will pull this card, from their pro gun deck of cards:

    "Criminals murder people with other things BESIDES guns."

    Please, go about watering down the gun debate with your examples of those (other things besides guns, that criminals have used to murder people with)

    And might those things that you might express as examples, are they mentioned in the second amendment, along with the right to bear arms, meaning firearms? 

    The second amendment stands on it's own merit, and I'm aware of what it says.

    But I'm also aware, of roughly how many weapons there are in the United States, in comparison to roughly how many citizens that there are in the United States as well.

    And along with how many stolen or illegal firearms there are in the country also?  

    Maybe some of the drug addiction/ drug abuse issues, are a side bar problem, when it comes to those stolen and Illegal guns? 

    Like individuals coming in through the border, down south, one with a bail of weed, and another with a weapon, illegally bringing drugs into the country? 

    Looks like some of the individuals in the country, have because of their committed crimes, have in a sense made criminals out of the guns themselves? 

    How many illegal, or stolen guns, might be in a evidence room, locked up, until an offenders court date comes up? 

    And the victims family, goes to the same courtroom, to watch the offender, who took their family members life away from them, watch the trial and see the offender on the stand, and listen to their story, in regards to the crime that they committed? 

    "What are the top 2 reasons murders occur?  What are solutions to them?"

    Common sense being utilized by the offenders themselves in both instances, is their solution.
    Zombieguy1987
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -  
    @TTKDB
    Please, go about watering down the gun debate with your examples of those (other things besides guns, that criminals have used to murder people with)
    oh ok, I thought murdering people was bad, but you just don't want people murdered with guns, gotcha.
    And might those things that you might express as examples, are they mentioned in the second amendment, along with the right to bear arms, meaning firearms? 
    some, yes, though it doesn't include hands, feet, hammers etc, if you had some kind of point you failed at making one.

    you didn't answer my simple questions so I'll ask one at a time and repeat them

    What are the top 2 reasons murders occur?
    (you can give more reasons if you like, I figured you could handle 2)

    I'll rephrase my second one
    What solutions can we come up with to stop people murdering other people?
    (I'm against murder in every form no matter how it's committed)
    Zombieguy1987
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    Here you go: 

    The below is a phenomenal piece of history.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_for_Our_Lives

    Some excerpts from the webpage; 

    "The March for Our Lives (MFOL)[4] was a student-led demonstration in support of stronger gun violence prevention measures. It took place in Washington, D.C. on March 24, 2018, with over 880 sibling events throughout the United States and around the world,[5][6][7][8][9] and was planned by student organizers from Never Again MSD in collaboration with the nonprofit organizationEverytown for Gun Safety.[10] The event followed the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida on February 14, 2018, which was described by several media outlets as a possible tipping point for gun control legislation.[11][12][13]

    These individuals, were a part of the rally:

    1.2+ million protestors across the United States; more globally.[2][3]
    Website

    marchforourlives.com 




    You could, reach out to David Hogg, and ask him to add his conversation to this debate as well, couldn't we? 



    LOL, Hogg, what a useless twit.


    ApplesauceZombieguy1987
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @Applesauce

    (Please, go about watering down the gun debate with your examples of those (other things besides guns, that criminals have used to murder people with)

    Did I state this?

    "oh ok, I thought murdering people was bad, but you just don't want people murdered with guns, gotcha." 

    Show me, where the above was expressed by me? 


    (And might those things that you might express as examples, are they mentioned in the second amendment, along with the right to bear arms, meaning firearms?)

    "some, yes, though it doesn't include hands, feet, hammers etc, if you had some kind of point you failed at making one."

    Are you trying to show off for someone with this set of words by you? 

    "If you had some kind of point you failed at making one."

    Who are you trying to impress? 

    "You didn't answer my simple questions so I'll ask one at a time and repeat them

    What are the top 2 reasons murders occur?
    (you can give more reasons if you like, I figured you could handle 2)

    I'll rephrase my second one
    What solutions can we come up with to stop people murdering other people?
    (I'm against murder in every form no matter how it's committed)"

    I did answer your questions, and I'm going to answer your repeated questions, with the same answers.

    Common sense being utilized by the offenders themselves in both instances, is their solution.

    Meaning don't break any laws, don't hurt innocent people, or kill innocent people, by utilizing common sense, and refrain from making oneself into an offender, by not breaking any laws to begin with.

    Those common sense characteristics, known as common courtesy, respect, self respect, self worth, being a human being towards one another, having some integrity, and pride in oneself.

    I hear every so often, parents expressing the above to their kids and family members, at least twice a week? 

    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @Applesauce


    But I'm also aware, of roughly how many weapons there are in the United States, in comparison to roughly how many citizens that there are in the United States as well.

    And along with how many stolen or illegal firearms there are in the country also? 

    ...

    Like individuals coming in through the border, down south, one with a bail of weed, and another with a weapon, illegally bringing drugs into the country?


    Are you really?!?  How many weapons are there in the US?  Enlighten us.  How many weapons have been smuggled in by the cartels? 

    More to the point; specifically, what do you propose that will stop criminals from ever committing crimes with guns again.  This is supposed to be a debate.  So far, the only thing you put forward was the psychological evaluation thing, and you must admit, there is no way that will stop all firearms murders.
    ApplesauceZombieguy1987
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -  
    @TTKDB

    since I'm against murder in all forms, because I said that you claimed I "watered it down" as in all non gun murders don't matter to you.

    What are the top 2 reasons murders occur?
    (you can give more reasons if you like, I figured you could handle 2)
    your answer
    I did answer your questions, and I'm going to answer your repeated questions, with the same answers.
    Common sense being utilized by the offenders themselves in both instances, is their solution.
    makes no sense at all as to why people kill other people.  I'm not sure I can make it any simpler for you so i guess you just can't or won't answer it.
    Zombieguy1987
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @Applesauce


    Common sense being utilized by the offenders themselves in both instances, is their solution.

    Meaning don't break any laws, don't hurt innocent people, or kill innocent people, by utilizing common sense, and refrain from making oneself into an offender, by not breaking any laws to begin with.

    Those common sense characteristics, known as common courtesy, respect, self respect, self worth, being a human being towards one another, having some integrity, and pride in oneself.

    I hear every so often, parents expressing the above to their kids and family members, at least twice a week? 


    Wait, are you saying what we really need to do is promote better parenting, 'cause I could agree with that.
    Zombieguy1987
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    ironic isn't it?  He went from gun control to people control, self control and personal responsibility which is actually the solution to what he truly wants, less murders.  He doesn't actually want gun control, no one really does, they just don't understand it.  If I could magically make people stop murdering each other, the gun would be a non issue and would need no control what so ever.  So what is the real and very basis of the issue, people murdering people.  How they do it shouldn't matter, just that they do.  If you take away, address the why, that's how you solve the problem.  Pretty basic really.
    Zombieguy1987
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    ironic isn't it?  He went from gun control to people control, self control and personal responsibility which is actually the solution to what he truly wants, less murders.  He doesn't actually want gun control, no one really does, they just don't understand it.  If I could magically make people stop murdering each other, the gun would be a non issue and would need no control what so ever.  So what is the real and very basis of the issue, people murdering people.  How they do it shouldn't matter, just that they do.  If you take away, address the why, that's how you solve the problem.  Pretty basic really.

    True, but the problem with the sensationalist/emotional argument "Look here, these people were KILLED, we need to do something" is that less murders aren't good enough.  We don't need to do anything to have less murders, we already have that.  The murder rate is half what it was in the early/mid 90s and aside from 0bama's BLM years, it's been dropping steadily.  The only thing that will satisfy @TTKDB, Hogg, etc. is an infallible way to stop murders from ever happening.  If a single murder happens, they can climb back up on their soapbox and complain about how we need to do something for the poor victim.  It's ridiculously unrealistic to even contemplate.  I've been trying to steer him into it, but I haven't been able to get him to move from the "but, but, but, the poor victims" reply to anything constructive.
    Zombieguy1987
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @CYDdharta

    @Applesauce

    "ironic isn't it?  He went from gun control to people control, self control and personal responsibility which is actually the solution to what he truly wants, less murders."

    Did I say any of the above? 

    Where did I mention anything about, gun control?

    Where did I mention anything about, people control? 

    Is there an issue, with any responsible adult, being responsible for themselves, maybe even being more responsible, with the weapons, that they maybe own?

    What's wrong with an adult, being responsible for themselves, and not making offenders of themselves by committing crimes against innocent people? 

    Do the two of you, maybe have an issue with common sense being taught to the kids, by their parents or families? 

    (Common sense being utilized by the offenders themselves in both instances, is their solution.

    Meaning don't break any laws, don't hurt innocent people, or kill innocent people, by utilizing common sense, and refrain from making oneself into an offender, by not breaking any laws to begin with.

    Those common sense characteristics, known as common courtesy, respect, self respect, self worth, being a human being towards one another, having some integrity, and pride in oneself.

    I hear every so often, parents expressing the above to their kids and family members, at least twice a week?)

    And this rhetoric, really?  

    "True, but the problem with the sensationalist/emotional argument "Look here, these people were KILLED, we need to do something" is that less murders aren't good enough.  We don't need to do anything to have less murders, we already have that.  The murder rate is half what it was in the early/mid 90s and aside from 0bama's BLM years, it's been dropping steadily.  The only thing that will satisfy @TTKDB, Hogg, etc. is an infallible way to stop murders from ever happening.  If a single murder happens, they can climb back up on their soapbox and complain about how we need to do something for the poor victim.  It's ridiculously unrealistic to even contemplate.  I've been trying to steer him into it, but I haven't been able to get him to move from the "but, but, but, the poor victims" reply to anything constructive."

    So, please, tell the public, how the two of you, feel about the kids and adults killed in those school shootings over the years? 

    The Vegas shootings?

    And the church shootings? 
    Zombieguy1987
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    selective moral outrage to be sure, otherwise they would also want a ban on alcohol because of the dui deaths, then there's tobacco.......
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    @Applesauce

    "ironic isn't it?  He went from gun control to people control, self control and personal responsibility which is actually the solution to what he truly wants, less murders."

    Did I say any of the above?

    The biggest problem I'm having is that you aren't really saying ANYTHING, other than "woe is the poor crime victims".  We have to try to glean your position from the random bits of commentary you have strewn throughout the thread.  If any of it is wrong, state your position clearly.  I've been asking almost since you stared posting here to list what steps you think should be take to address the issue, but alas...
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    selective moral outrage to be sure, otherwise they would also want a ban on alcohol because of the dui deaths, then there's tobacco.......

    The media hasn't pushed a teen in front of the cameras who's sibling was killed by a drunk driver, or better yet, a distracted driver playing with his cell phone.
    ApplesauceZombieguy1987
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @TTKDB "ironic isn't it?  He went from gun control to people control, self control and personal responsibility which is actually the solution to what he truly wants, less murders.

    "Did I say any of the above?" 

    you don't want less murders?
    well, let's see, though I'm concerned that you don't remember what you said, but here goes.

    Common sense being utilized by the offenders themselves in both instances, is their solution.Meaning don't break any laws, don't hurt innocent people, or kill innocent people, by utilizing common sense, and refrain from making oneself into an offender, by not breaking any laws to begin with.those things you said would require people control, self control and personal responsibility wouldn't it?  If people had those and did the other things you also said, then guns would be irrelevant in this topic right?
    We should all agree with what you said about common sense, not breaking laws and not killing people.  This is the current answer and solution you have give to the issue of murder is it not?  Which again we should all agree with, though if that is the solution, more gun control obviously is not.

    if @CYDdharta is a responsible law abiding gun owner, why should you care if he has a gun?  And why would you place even more burdens on him to keep or get more?

    I have constantly and consistently answered your questions, this is the 3rd time I am asking this again since you won't answer it, if this is going to be one sided you'll leave me no choice but to stop responding to you.

    What are the top 2 reasons murders occur?
    (you can give more reasons if you like, I figured you could handle 2)
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    @Applesauce

    "ironic isn't it?  He went from gun control to people control, self control and personal responsibility which is actually the solution to what he truly wants, less murders."

    Did I say any of the above? 

    Where did I mention anything about, gun control?

    Where did I mention anything about, people control? 

    Is there an issue, with any responsible adult, being responsible for themselves, maybe even being more responsible, with the weapons, that they maybe own?

    What's wrong with an adult, being responsible for themselves, and not making offenders of themselves by committing crimes against innocent people? 

    Do the two of you, maybe have an issue with common sense being taught to the kids, by their parents or families? 

    (Common sense being utilized by the offenders themselves in both instances, is their solution.

    Meaning don't break any laws, don't hurt innocent people, or kill innocent people, by utilizing common sense, and refrain from making oneself into an offender, by not breaking any laws to begin with.

    Those common sense characteristics, known as common courtesy, respect, self respect, self worth, being a human being towards one another, having some integrity, and pride in oneself.

    I hear every so often, parents expressing the above to their kids and family members, at least twice a week?)

    And this rhetoric, really?  

    "True, but the problem with the sensationalist/emotional argument "Look here, these people were KILLED, we need to do something" is that less murders aren't good enough.  We don't need to do anything to have less murders, we already have that.  The murder rate is half what it was in the early/mid 90s and aside from 0bama's BLM years, it's been dropping steadily.  The only thing that will satisfy @TTKDB, Hogg, etc. is an infallible way to stop murders from ever happening.  If a single murder happens, they can climb back up on their soapbox and complain about how we need to do something for the poor victim.  It's ridiculously unrealistic to even contemplate.  I've been trying to steer him into it, but I haven't been able to get him to move from the "but, but, but, the poor victims" reply to anything constructive."

    So, please, tell the public, how the two of you, feel about the kids and adults killed in those school shootings over the years? 

    The Vegas shootings?

    And the church shootings?  
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:


    So, please, tell the public, how the two of you, feel about the kids and adults killed in those school shootings over the years? 

    The Vegas shootings?

    And the church shootings? 

    I already have;

    It's tragic; unfortunately, even if every one of your suggestions had been implement, the very same thing could have happened, and you damned well know it.

    You even commented about it. Now how about you tell the public how you would stop such attacks from ever happening again?

    Zombieguy1987
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -  
    @TTKDB

    why does it matter what I do or do not feel?

    Where did I mention anything about, gun control?

    January 3
    You said "But your second amendment right, matters more than the above apparently does?"

    if that's not a gun control statement, what is it?

    and also

    "But hey, (the pro community, pro family, pro law, pro second amendment, and pro first amendment,) don't worry over the offenders, who might be walking around illegally armed, because some of the second amendment enthusiasts, maybe say so?

    Is the above maybe how some of the second amendment enthusiasts, and some of their logic works? "

    first post December 31

    "Maybe requiring a psychological evaluation prior to a weapon/s purchase? 

    Because apparently, if a background check checks out, and an individual is able to purchase a weapon, and then later on, that same individual, goes about committing a crime with that same weapon, then maybe additional steps could be added to the process of being able to purchase a weapon? "

    that is Gun Control, additional to what already exists.
    So there is your answer to where you mentioned something about gun control and with that I'm done with you are you very dishonest and disingenuous.  Didn't need to give you much rope at all to hang yourself.  Troll someone else, have a nice life.
    Zombieguy1987
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @Applesauce

    "that is Gun Control, additional to what already exists.
    So there is your answer to where you mentioned something about gun control and with that I'm done with you are you very dishonest and disingenuous.  Didn't need to give you much rope at all to hang yourself.  Troll someone else, have a nice life."

    @Applesauce

    This is a fair and equal debate.

    And, as long as the criminals, sadly continue to commit their illegaI acts of gun violence against innocent people, with their illegal  guns, their unfair, and unequal, actions will continue be debated on.


    Zombieguy1987
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta


    "LOL, Hogg, what a useless twit."

     
    @CYDdharta

    Why don't you invite David Hogg to this debate? 
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    TTKDB said:
    @Applesauce

    "that is Gun Control, additional to what already exists.
    So there is your answer to where you mentioned something about gun control and with that I'm done with you are you very dishonest and disingenuous.  Didn't need to give you much rope at all to hang yourself.  Troll someone else, have a nice life."

    @Applesauce

    This is a fair and equal debate.

    And, as long as the criminals, sadly continue to commit their illegaI acts of gun violence against innocent people, with their illegal  guns, their unfair, and unequal, actions will continue be debated on.

    How do you propose to stop criminals from continuing to commit their illegal acts of gun violence against innocent people, with their illegal  guns?  I'm still waiting to hear what sorts of measures you think would end it.
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    @Applesauce

    "why does it matter what I do or do not feel?'"

    You're human aren't you? 

    You're human when you interact with other people aren't you? 

    When you see news stories about an offender who committed a crime, don't you feel sad or sorrowful for the offenders victim, and the victims family? 

    I feel sad when I see those news stories.
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    @Applesauce

    Or, why don't you invite David Hogg to this debate? 

     
    ApplesauceZombieguy1987
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    https://www-courant-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-newtown-march-for-our-lives-20180812-story.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&outputType=amp&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-newtown-march-for-our-lives-20180812-story.html 

    Some excerpts from the article:

    "Parkland Students Call For End To Gun Violence At March For Our Lives Rally In Newtown

    On Feb. 14, 17 people died when a gunman got into Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., and started shooting.

    Just over five years prior, 26 people died in Newtown when a very similar event took place at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Twenty of those victims were first-grade students.

    In the time between those two shootings, there were several more in small towns and big cities all over the country.

    In Newtown on Sunday, students and organizers from all over the country made it clear that, to them, the kids aren’t all right but they want to fix it.

    The March For Our Lives “Road To Change” tour, an effort that aimed both to register voters and encourage them to vote for politicians willing to enact gun reform, concluded its monthslong run across the nation at the Fairfield Hills Hospital campus. Over and over again, speakers told the audience that young people in favor of gun control will ultimately prevail in the political sphere.

    Hundreds of people turned out for the event despite the heat and humidity. Many of the attendees weren’t even of voting age yet, but they were eager to make their voices heard. Volunteers worked to register voters while political groups in favor of gun reform talked about which candidates they support.

    Carson Cole, a 15-year-old from Rhode Island, came to the rally because she wanted to talk with and learn from like-minded people.

    “I should be able to go to school without the fear of being shot,” Carson said.

    She will not be eligible to vote until 2022, but Carson, a member of the Rhode Island Coalition Against Gun Violence, saw value in being empowered to speak up even before she’s able to go to the polls.

    Several attendees under 18 said they often run into people who don’t take them or their politics seriously because of their age. For many, that doesn’t faze them.

    “Our right to live to adulthood eclipses your right to owning an assault weapon,” Adah Bryan, 15, said.

    Adah is politically active and said she’s been to many rallies and even testified at the Rhode Island statehouse. In her experience, people are willing to try to physically intimidate her or accuse her of being a “pawn for the liberal agenda,” she said.

    “This isn’t some sort of ‘liberal agenda’ thing; This is all very personal for me,” Adah said. “My family are all gun owners, but I’m here because it matters to me that we protest this.”

    All of Sunday’s speakers were both young and had been personally affected by gun violence. The first speakers were from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, followed by Natalie Barden.

    Natalie lost her younger brother Daniel during the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, and she is now an active member of Junior Newtown Action Alliance.

    “We are all here today because no one should have to feel the life-shattering pain of losing a loved one to a gunman,” Natalie said.

    With her father playing guitar, she sang Tim McGraw’s “Humble and Kind” in honor of her brother, a performance that brought several in the audience to tears.

    Other speakers spoke of why they became more involved in pushing for gun reform following the shooting in Parkland.

    Isabella Segall, of Wilton, said she was able to live in a bubble and tune out the shooting in Newtown and other places, although she described herself as increasingly uneasy. Ultimately, hearing about Parkland burst that bubble and took away her feeling of safety.

    “I was tired of living in a constant state of panic; I was tired of not only fearing but expecting my school to be next and I was tired of thoughts and prayers,” Isabella said to great applause, referencing the statements politicians often make following mass shootings.

    Time and time again, speakers called out those who felt they are too young to make a difference.

    “If we are too young to speak of change and reformation within our community, then I was too young to lose friends to a bullet,” Bria Smith, a 17-year-old from Milwaukee, said.

    She went on to talk about how shootings disproportionately affect people of color in inner cities and called for the push for gun control to be intersectional and inclusive.

    Students from Hartford Communities That Care Youth Leadership Academy brought up similar points, telling the audience that they had been affected by gun violence, not because they were black or lazy, but rather because they exist in a system that fails to prioritize fixing their community.

    They gave several suggestions to help support communities, including supporting young entrepreneurs, providing the necessary tools for literacy and putting resources toward programs that help end the school-to-prison pipeline.

    Tommy Murray, who is involved in the Junior Newtown Action Alliance and whose neighbor carried out the shooting in Newtown, said he has spent years begging Congress to take action against guns.

    “Congress refuses to take action. Why? Because there are too many of them who lack the political courage to say no to the NRA,” Tommy said. “They choose to sacrifice our lives for the NRA blood money.”

    He said the Parkland students inspired those in Newtown to do more, teaching people across the country that their voices and votes matter. Murray made the audience promise they would vote to change gun violence in the U.S.

    Other speakers talked about the future of the gun control movement, saying that while those who are newly eligible to vote are the present, younger generations are the future.

    Several students from Marjory Stoneman Douglas stood on stage with the youngest speakers yet — 10- and 11-year-olds who fired up the crowd with calls to action.

    Naomi Wadler, 11, pushed for not only common sense gun reform but also common sense conversations with those in power. Langston Saint, 10, told the crowd that even though he can’t vote for another eight years, young people are changing the world for the better.

    Yolanda Renee King, 10, talked about her grandfather, Martin Luther King Jr., and quoted him by saying, “I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden ... ”

    She then thanked the Parkland students for “making the world a better place,” and led the audience in several chants about how the next generation is going to be a great one."

    “I was nervous, but I think I made a difference today,” Yolanda said after the rally. “Everyone made a difference just by showing up here today.”

    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta


    Why don't you invite David Hogg to this debate? 

    Why would I?  I think he's an infantile little fool.  He's completely devoid of the common sense characteristics (common courtesy, respect, self respect, integrity) you mentioned previously.

    When your old- parent is like, ‘I don’t know how to send an iMessage,’ and you’re just like, ‘Give me the phone and let me handle it.’ Sadly, that’s what we have to do with our government; our parents don’t know how to use a democracy, so we have to.


    That, to you, is common courtesy?  That's respect?  That's someone to emulate?  You can invite him if you want, I'll invite Kyle Kashuv.  Maybe they can finally have the debate that Hogg has been avoiding.
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    Why don't you invite David Hogg to this debate? 

    "Why would I?  I think he's an infantile little fool.  He's completely devoid of the common sense characteristics (common courtesy, respect, self respect, integrity) you mentioned previously.

    That, to you, is common courtesy?  That's respect?  That's someone to emulate?  You can invite him if you want, I'll invite Kyle Kashuv.  Maybe they can finally have the debate that Hogg has been avoiding."

    https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/01/us/texas-drive-by-shooting-mother/index.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/01/us/texas-drive-by-shooting-mother/index.html 

    "He intentionally killed my child for no reason,' says mother of 7-year-old killed in drive-by shooting

    When she heard the pop of gunfire, LaPorsha Washington threw her body over her eldest daughter in the front seat, shielding her during a Sunday morning coffee run with her children.

    "Get down," she screamed to the three other daughters she couldn't protect in the back seat. Gunfire from a pickup nearby shattered her driver's side window."

    OK, so how about instead of Mr. Hogg, you could invite, Ms. LaPorsha Washington to the debate? 

    What say you? 








    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    Why don't you invite David Hogg to this debate? 

    "Why would I?  I think he's an infantile little fool.  He's completely devoid of the common sense characteristics (common courtesy, respect, self respect, integrity) you mentioned previously.

    That, to you, is common courtesy?  That's respect?  That's someone to emulate?  You can invite him if you want, I'll invite Kyle Kashuv.  Maybe they can finally have the debate that Hogg has been avoiding."

    https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/01/us/texas-drive-by-shooting-mother/index.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/01/us/texas-drive-by-shooting-mother/index.html 

    "He intentionally killed my child for no reason,' says mother of 7-year-old killed in drive-by shooting

    When she heard the pop of gunfire, LaPorsha Washington threw her body over her eldest daughter in the front seat, shielding her during a Sunday morning coffee run with her children.

    "Get down," she screamed to the three other daughters she couldn't protect in the back seat. Gunfire from a pickup nearby shattered her driver's side window."

    OK, so how about instead of Mr. Hogg, you could invite, Ms. LaPorsha Washington to the debate? 

    What say you?

    Invite whoever you want.  I'm not sure what kind of training or education Mrs. Washington has that may be pertinent to the debate.  Is she a statistician, or better yet criminologist?

    Zombieguy1987
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @CYDdharta

    Have you been watching the news this week?

    The news media outlet story that I shared below, is in regards to her.

    https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/01/us/texas-drive-by-shooting-mother/index.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/01/us/texas-drive-by-shooting-mother/index.html

    Below is the headline:

    "He intentionally killed my child for no reason,' says mother of 7-year-old killed in drive-by shooting

    When she heard the pop of gunfire, LaPorsha Washington threw her body over her eldest daughter in the front seat, shielding her during a Sunday morning coffee run with her children.

    "Get down," she screamed to the three other daughters she couldn't protect in the back seat. Gunfire from a pickup nearby shattered her driver's side window.

    When the shooting stopped, her 7-year-old daughter in the back seat was dead. She had been shot in the head in the incident that happened in the Houston area, Washington said, CNN affiliate KTRK reported."

    OK, so how about instead of Mr. Hogg, you could invite, Ms. LaPorsha Washington to the debate?  

    "Invite whoever you want.  I'm not sure what kind of training or education Mrs. Washington has that may be pertinent to the debate.  Is she a statistician, or better yet criminologist?"

    She's the mother of a child, who was killed in a drive by shooting. She and her other children, are now survivors of another sad shooting.

    So it goes with saying, that she is very pertinent to this debate:

    "Should America have gun control?"



  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    Have you been watching the news this week?

    The news media outlet story that I shared below, is in regards to her.

    https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/01/us/texas-drive-by-shooting-mother/index.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/01/us/texas-drive-by-shooting-mother/index.html

    Below is the headline:

    "He intentionally killed my child for no reason,' says mother of 7-year-old killed in drive-by shooting

    When she heard the pop of gunfire, LaPorsha Washington threw her body over her eldest daughter in the front seat, shielding her during a Sunday morning coffee run with her children.

    "Get down," she screamed to the three other daughters she couldn't protect in the back seat. Gunfire from a pickup nearby shattered her driver's side window.

    When the shooting stopped, her 7-year-old daughter in the back seat was dead. She had been shot in the head in the incident that happened in the Houston area, Washington said, CNN affiliate KTRK reported."

    OK, so how about instead of Mr. Hogg, you could invite, Ms. LaPorsha Washington to the debate?  

    "Invite whoever you want.  I'm not sure what kind of training or education Mrs. Washington has that may be pertinent to the debate.  Is she a statistician, or better yet criminologist?"

    She's the mother of a child, who was killed in a drive by shooting. She and her other children, are now survivors of another sad shooting.

    So it goes with saying, that she is very pertinent to this debate:

    "Should America have gun control?"




    Yes, I saw that every time you posted it.  And every time you posted it, I asked you what gun control measures would have stopped such a thing from ever happening again.  You have never answered me.
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @CYDdharta

    "Yes, I saw that every time you posted it.  And every time you posted it, I asked you what gun control measures would have stopped such a thing from ever happening again.  You have never answered me."

    Curious, no other mention from you in regards to Ms. Washington? 

    Why not pose your questions to Ms. Washington? 

    Why don't you invite her to this debate? 

    And ask her, your gun control measures questions? 
    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    "Yes, I saw that every time you posted it.  And every time you posted it, I asked you what gun control measures would have stopped such a thing from ever happening again.  You have never answered me."

    Curious, no other mention from you in regards to Ms. Washington? 

    Why not pose your questions to Ms. Washington? 

    Why don't you invite her to this debate? 

    And ask her, your gun control measures questions? 

    I don't think she has anything of substance to add, you do.  Why don't you invite her?  Or better yet, why don't you just post the measures you think would stop her tragedy from afflicting anyone else.  You know, debate the issue.
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
  • It is my United State Constitutional right to independence and common defense for the general welfare. So In your case a bullet should not be wasted and you must present your own if you are to be sentence to capital punishment. The Common defense though might suggest that maybe there is a poetic relationship to some woman’s demise and a vat of spermicide? Just asking because I real have no clue myself, what do you think?

    Be honest please?

  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    I don't think she has anything of substance to add, you do.  Why don't you invite her?  Or better yet, why don't you just post the measures you think would stop her tragedy from afflicting anyone else.  You know, debate the issue.

    Mr, Washington lost her daughter, to an offender with a gun.

    The alleged shooter is a coward.

    The alleged shooter, took a life and ran like a coward, he ran in his truck, like an offender runs, because all of the sudden, his freedom, isn't what it once was, before he pulled the trigger of his gun.

    Because for whatever reason, he allegedly opened fire on a lady and her family, while they were in their car.

    Allegedly killing a 7 year old girl.

    Now, it appears that he's in hiding, and his crime is on the national news.

    Apparently his crime is pertinent to this debate.

    He is showing the country how the Second Amendment can be abused.

    Because he took the Second Amendment and treated it like trash.

    And he's treating his freedom of choice, like trash as well.

    What has been said before? Criminals with guns are going to commit crimes, and there's nothing that can be done about it?

    The offender can act like a human being, can act humane, and not kill innocent people with a tool known as a gun.

    The death penalty should be made mandatory, for all offenders when they kill innocent people with gun violence.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    I don't think she has anything of substance to add, you do.  Why don't you invite her?  Or better yet, why don't you just post the measures you think would stop her tragedy from afflicting anyone else.  You know, debate the issue.

    Mr, Washington lost her daughter, to an offender with a gun.

    The alleged shooter is a coward.

    The alleged shooter, took a life and ran like a coward, he ran in his truck, like an offender runs, because all of the sudden, his freedom, isn't what it once was, before he pulled the trigger of his gun.

    Because for whatever reason, he allegedly opened fire on a lady and her family, while they were in their car.

    Allegedly killing a 7 year old girl.

    Now, it appears that he's in hiding, and his crime is on the national news.

    Phone scammers took Kim Nichols' father Bill for $85,000.  Does that make him an expert on how avoid scams?  No, being a victim of a crime doesn't demonstrate any particular expertise in that field.  They don't necessarily have any better idea of how to stop the crime than the random passerby.

    Apparently his crime is pertinent to this debate.

    He is showing the country how the Second Amendment can be abused.

    Because he took the Second Amendment and treated it like trash.

    And he's treating his freedom of choice, like trash as well.

    This was a crime, it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.  Trying to tie this crime to the 2nd Amendment would be like trying to tie Kim Nichols' father's phone scammers t freedom of speech in the 1st Amendment.

    What has been said before? Criminals with guns are going to commit crimes, and there's nothing that can be done about it?

    The offender can act like a human being, can act humane, and not kill innocent people with a tool known as a gun.

    The death penalty should be made mandatory, for all offenders when they kill innocent people with gun violence.

    FINALLY!!!!  AN ACTUAL POLICY SUGGESTION!!!  KEEP 'EM COMING!!!



    Unfortunately, I doubt it would ever pass Congress.  Why would you limit it specifically to innocent people who are killed with a gun?  Are the innocent people who are killed with baseball bats or beaten to death with bare hands less dead than people who are shot to death? Stricter sentencing and mandatory terms would help; that was among the suggestions I made days ago.

  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @CYDdharta

    Are you maybe a pro weapons extemist? 

    Because with your individual choice of pro gun dialogue, it in a sense, it kind of comes across as a way of making excuses around your individual narrative, so in a sense you're defending your pro gun dialogue with a pro defensive posture and or position?

    In other words, your pulling guard duty on your second amendment points of view? 

    The below are examples of your pro defensive postures or positions? 

    "Phone scammers took Kim Nichols' father Bill for $85,000.  Does that make him an expert on how avoid scams?  No, being a victim of a crime doesn't demonstrate any particular expertise in that field.  They don't necessarily have any better idea of how to stop the crime than the random passerby."

    "This was a crime, it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.  Trying to tie this crime to the 2nd Amendment would be like trying to tie Kim Nichols' father's phone scammers t freedom of speech in the 1st Amendment.

    "Unfortunately, I doubt it would ever pass Congress.  Why would you limit it specifically to innocent people who are killed with a gun?  Are the innocent people who are killed with baseball bats or beaten to death with bare hands less dead than people who are shot to death? Stricter sentencing and mandatory terms would help; that was among the suggestions I made days ago."

    Maybe all of the laws in regards to an offender committing their crimes with a gun, knife, or a basebal bat, or an individuals own hands, as examples, should all be re-examined, and updated with new punishments, or inprisonment standards? 

    Like the death penalty, or maybe having the offenders family, paying the victims family some sort of reperations? 

    Or an offender, could just give a care, to the rest of the human beings around them and not, hurt or kill innocent people, with whatever weapons they go about using to commit their various crimes with? 

    And I think, that the victims families should get a say in the above reform processes, and that certain laws could be named after the victims that the various offenders hurt or killed, during the course of their crimes? 

    I think that the above, is a fair and equal way, to address the various crimes that the offenders have been committing for years now.  

    Being that it would appear, that some offenders have become career oriented offenders, with the various crimes that they commit year after year? 


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    Are you maybe a pro weapons extemist? 

    Because with your individual choice of pro gun dialogue, it kind of comes across as making excuses around your individual narrative, so in a sense you're defending your pro gun dialogue with a pro defensive posture and or position?

    In other words, your pulling guard duty on your second amendment points of view? 

    The below are examples of your pro defensive postures or positions? 

    "Phone scammers took Kim Nichols' father Bill for $85,000.  Does that make him an expert on how avoid scams?  No, being a victim of a crime doesn't demonstrate any particular expertise in that field.  They don't necessarily have any better idea of how to stop the crime than the random passerby."

    "This was a crime, it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.  Trying to tie this crime to the 2nd Amendment would be like trying to tie Kim Nichols' father's phone scammers t freedom of speech in the 1st Amendment.

    "Unfortunately, I doubt it would ever pass Congress.  Why would you limit it specifically to innocent people who are killed with a gun?  Are the innocent people who are killed with baseball bats or beaten to death with bare hands less dead than people who are shot to death? Stricter sentencing and mandatory terms would help; that was among the suggestions I made days ago."

    Yes, yes; we already established I'm a pro weapons extremist and you're a pro police state fascist.  You were doing so well with actually trying to debate, but you had to blow it.  What a shame.

    Maybe all of the laws in regards to an offender committing their crimes with a gun, knife, or aa basebal bat as examples, should all be reexamined, and updated with new punishments, or inprisonment standards?

    To what end?  The terms are already there.  The problem is that harsh sentences underutilized and/or watered down by the justice system. 

    Like the death penalty, or maybe having the offenders family, paying the victims family some sort of reperations?

    We already have a death penalty for murderers.  Surviving family members can sue for wrongful deaths, but what does a gangbanger have that anyone would want?  Not many murderers have anything of value to start with.

    Or an offender, could just give a care, to the rest of the human beings around them and not, hurt or kill innocent people, with whatever weapons they go about using to commit their various crimes with?



    And I think, that the victims families should get a say in the above reform processes, and that certain laws could be named after the victims that the various offenders hurt or killed, during the course of their crimes?

    I think that the above, is a fair and equal way, to address the various crimes that the offenders have been committing for years now.  

    Being that it would appear, that some offenders have become career oriented offenders, with the various crimes that they commit year after year?


    Victims families often DO get a say in the above reform processes if they want it, they can testify at probation hearings.  And you mean naming laws after people like Amber alerts, Ponzi schemes, and Brady materials?

    Zombieguy1987
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    "Yes, yes; we already established I'm a pro weapons extremist and you're a pro police state fascist.  You were doing so well with actually trying to debate, but you had to blow it.  What a shame."

    In my experience with debating with you, the above dialogue from you, is the first time that I have seen you express that you are a pro weapons extremist.

    And nope, I'm not a pro police state fascist at all.

    "Fascism is a form of government which is a type of one-party dictatorship. Fascists are against democracy. They work for a totalitarian one-party state"

    But one could take the term fascist:

    And reverse it's meaning, meaning that the various offenders who commit their crimes, are pushing their criminal lawlessness against the public, IE being totalitarian, against the democracy of the law abiding citizens of the United States? 

    Meaning that the offenders and career criminals who commit their crimes, day in and day out, year after year, and for decades, are essentially being self created pocket dictators.

    And FYI, I'm a pro community, pro family, pro child, and a pro law abiding individual.

    And the local police, the state police, and the other law enforcement agencies are going above and beyond, in doing their duties, to deal with, and cope with the offenders and career criminals who keep infringing on the rights of innocent people.




    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    "Yes, yes; we already established I'm a pro weapons extremist and you're a pro police state fascist.  You were doing so well with actually trying to debate, but you had to blow it.  What a shame."

    In my experience with debating with you, the above dialogue from you, is the first time that I have seen you express that you are a pro weapons extremist.

    And nope, I'm not a pro police state fascist at all.

    "Fascism is a form of government which is a type of one-party dictatorship. Fascists are against democracy. They work for a totalitarian one-party state"

    But one could take the term fascist:

    And reverse it's meaning, meaning that the various offenders who commit their crimes, are pushing their criminal lawlessness against the public, IE being totalitarian, against the democracy of the law abiding citizens of the United States? 

    Meaning that the offenders and career criminals who commit their crimes, day in and day out, year after year, and for decades, are essentially being self created pocket dictators.

    And FYI, I'm a pro community, pro family, pro child, and a pro law abiding individual.

    And the local police, the state police, and the other law enforcement agencies are going above and beyond, in doing their duties, to deal with, and cope with the offenders and career criminals who keep infringing on the rights of innocent people.

    Why do you dwell on the useless rather than trying to debate the issue?

    Zombieguy1987
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @CYDdharta

    "Why do you dwell on the useless rather than trying to debate the issue?"

    Dwell on the useless? 

    Some perspectives: 

    The way that the millions of families, sadly get to dwell on the memories, of an offender, or career criminal who took the life of a loved one, or loved ones, over the years? 

    The way that the public sadly gets to dwell on the memory, of an offender, or career criminal who took the life of a police officer in the line of duty, with each passing year? 

    Some of the above issues, don't belong with the debate, along with the theme of the forum? 

    "Should America have gun control?"

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    "Why do you dwell on the useless rather than trying to debate the issue?"

    Dwell on the useless? 

    Some perspectives: 

    The way you apparently dwell, on your pro gun extremist dialogue? 

    The way that the millions of families, sadly get to dwell on the memories, of an offender, or career criminal who took the life of a loved one, or loved ones, over the years? 

    The way that the public sadly gets to dwell on the memory, of an offender, or career criminal who took the life of a police officer in the line of duty, with each passing year? 

    Some of the above issues, don't belong with the debate, along with the theme of the forum? 

    "Should America have gun control?"


    Considering we actually agree on a lot, like the need for stricter enforcement of existing laws (except you would like to see much more severe penalties then me), does that make you a pro gun extremist as well?

    Zombieguy1987
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    "Considering we actually agree on a lot, like the need for stricter enforcement of existing laws (except you would like to see much more severe penalties then me), does that make you a pro gun extremist as well?"

    We agree on this?

    I'm a pro community, pro family, pro child, and a pro law abiding individual.

    You're pro community, pro family, pro child, and a pro law abiding individual? 

    And an offender or a career offender, killing an innocent individual should get the death penalty.




  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    "Considering we actually agree on a lot, like the need for stricter enforcement of existing laws (except you would like to see much more severe penalties then me), does that make you a pro gun extremist as well?"

    We agree on this?

    I'm a pro community, pro family, pro child, and a pro law abiding individual.

    You're pro community, pro family, pro child, and a pro law abiding individual? 

    And an offender or a career offender, killing an innocent individual should get the death penalty.


    Yeah, pretty much.  I believe in stricter penalties and that the death penalty is underutilized.  However; while I believe that would do much to deter crime, it would, by no means, be 100% effective.  So we're back to the problem I pointed out days ago, what is a reasonable goal? 


  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -   edited January 2019
    @CYDdharta

    "Yeah, pretty much.  I believe in stricter penalties and that the death penalty is underutilized.  However; while I believe that would do much to deter crime, it would, by no means, be 100% effective.  So we're back to the problem I pointed out days ago, what is a reasonable goal?"

    There isn't a problem to speak of.

    But you're making it a problem, because of your pro weapons position? 

    What do you value more?

    Your individual weapon/s? 

    Or the community that you are a part of?

    What do you think that the victims of gun violence, maybe or might value more?

    The second amendment conversation debate, or if they could get their family members back, who were taken away from them, because of an offenders gun violence? 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    TTKDB said:
    @CYDdharta

    "Yeah, pretty much.  I believe in stricter penalties and that the death penalty is underutilized.  However; while I believe that would do much to deter crime, it would, by no means, be 100% effective.  So we're back to the problem I pointed out days ago, what is a reasonable goal?"

    There isn't a problem to speak of.

    But you're making it a problem, because of your pro weapons position.

    What do you value more?

    Your individual weapon/s? 

    Or the community that you are a part of?

    What do you think that the victims of gun violence value more?

    The second amendment, or if they could get their family members back, who were taken away from them, because of an offenders gun violence? 

    I'm not the topic of discussion.  If you have any comments to make about gun control, please do.
    ApplesauceZombieguy1987
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