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Is God a Trinity? Does one God exist in three Persons?
in Religion

I say yes. God is three but one according to 1 John 5:7, Christians believe that one God exist in three Persons, all coequal.
Zombieguy1987



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  • I kind of disagree with christian belief system. Several questions
    Number 1:In What are they distinct and in what are they the same?

    Number 2: which one is the Almighty God? Because clearly three of them are distinct from each other and if there's 3 Almighty God then there are no Almighty God.

    Number 3:Is Jesus God? Because according to Hosea 11:9 God is not a man, He is also not the son of man according to Numbers 23:19 and he has full knowledge of anything according to Psalms 1:47. If he is, is there any biblical evidence?

    Number 4:Can God take the attribute of a man and become a mortal? Because according to Malechi 3:6 He doesn't change.
    Zombieguy1987
  • @Jawadiahmad Jesus claimed to be God, are you up for a debate? I have evidence besides this video.
    Zombieguy1987Jawadiahmad
  • JawadiahmadJawadiahmad 24 Pts
    edited January 30
    Masya Allah. I've been looking for the evidence everywhere. I think I'm not a good researcher. Let's proceed.
  • God frequently refers to himself in the plural in the old testament.  I also always thought Genesis 18 was proof of the trinity, but someone tells me that it was probably God and two angels.

    Genesis 1:26
     – “Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.’”
  • I kind of disagree with christian belief system. Several questions
    Number 1:In What are they distinct and in what are they the same?

    Number 2: which one is the Almighty God? Because clearly three of them are distinct from each other and if there's 3 Almighty God then there are no Almighty God.
    Water exists as a fluid, a gas, and a solid.  Clearly they are distinct from each other. Which one is water?  
    God the father is our father the creator and all powerful
    God the son is our savior Jesus
    The holy spirit is more difficult and I cannot say exactly what he is.  But I am  convinced I have experienced him in my life on several occasions.  He is the force of God, Gods action.

  • GwynneMa said:
    God frequently refers to himself in the plural in the old testament.  I also always thought Genesis 18 was proof of the trinity, but someone tells me that it was probably God and two angels.

    Genesis 1:26
     – “Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.’”
    Is that true? Because in Hebrew Genesis 1:1 the first word is "בָּרָ֣א"(Bara') and this word is singular. If there's a singular verb before the noun(In this case, Bara' before Elohim), then the next word become a singular. Same thing with Genesis 1:26. The word before אֱלֹהִ֔ים(Elohim) is וַיֹּ֣אמֶר(Way yo mer) which is singlular. 
  • GwynneMa said:
    I kind of disagree with christian belief system. Several questions
    Number 1:In What are they distinct and in what are they the same?

    Number 2: which one is the Almighty God? Because clearly three of them are distinct from each other and if there's 3 Almighty God then there are no Almighty God.
    Water exists as a fluid, a gas, and a solid.  Clearly they are distinct from each other. Which one is water?  
    God the father is our father the creator and all powerful
    God the son is our savior Jesus
    The holy spirit is more difficult and I cannot say exactly what he is.  But I am  convinced I have experienced him in my life on several occasions.  He is the force of God, Gods action.

    So by that logic, when God became flesh, there's no God anymore. The analogy is when you put a glass of water inside a freezer and it fully became an ice. The question now is that is there still a glass of water in the freezer? No.Because the water already change into an ice,fully. Let's repeat the analogy one more time. If you boil a water and let all the water change into a gas, is there still a water left? No. Because the water already change into a gas. This is the point that I personally want to ask. In what are they the same? Because according to the fact,you can't have a distinction between them without applying a fully distinction principal(means they are truly separate) and you can't have a similarities without applying a fully similarities principal(means they are truly one which is one being and one person).
    And you may answer the 3rd and 4th question if you wish to.
  •  I am no linguist and cannot speak to plural or singular of Hebrew text.  
    But what word are you speaking of in 1:1?  Because God does not refer to himself in 1:1
    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
  • JawadiahmadJawadiahmad 24 Pts
    edited January 31
    @GwynneMa If you read the hebrew text of Genesis 1:1, you will find the word "בָּרָ֣א"(Bara') before the word  אֱלֹהִ֔ים(Elohim) and the word Bara' is singular. I didn't implies that god refer to himself. I implying that this sentence refer to God as one true being and not plural. But in the logic when you believe that a book is the word of God, if something in the book is referring to God then technically God refer to himself.
  • But we see God as one being.  He is water.  Ice is water, fluid water is water, water vapor is water.  So in the bible, when God refers to himself, the pronoun used is sometimes plural and sometimes singular.  But God is always (i believe) referred to as one.
    I do not speak of the Gods of the trinity I speak of God.  If I am speaking of one being of God I name him, God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
  • @GwynneMa So by that statement Jesus is The Father?
  • @Jawadiahmad Never fear, my dear. I have this video, which takes you through all of the relevant Scriptures: 
    Zombieguy1987
  • @Jawadiahmad
    No.  Is vapor, Ice?  Is vapor a fluid? No the are all water, they are all God.
  • @Jawadiahmad
    No analogy is perfect.  But if water is boiled and become vapor, it is still at its atomic level water.  
    What makes them the same is they are all God.  
    Your 3rd and 4th questions go beyond my Catechism, so I cannot speak on them.  I do have a group I can go to and ask, full of theologians and priests.  But that will take time
  • GwynneMa said:
    @Jawadiahmad
    No.  Is vapor, Ice?  Is vapor a fluid? No the are all water, they are all God.
    Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that statement just implies that three person in the godhead are 3 separate God. And to be more clear about what I'm looking for, I'm going to repeat and add an information to my question. In What are they distinct and in what are they the same? Because if you concluded that there are 3 person in one being, then when Jesus became a mortal, there are no more God because God has humble himself and take the human form. But if you conclude that they are God even though they're separate and independent, then you need to admit that you have 3 Gods now. If there's any other explanation then please do explain it to me.
  • Dr_MaybeDr_Maybe 27 Pts
    edited February 4
    God is three but one according to 1 John 5:7, Christians believe that one God exist in three Persons, all coequal.
    If god is three persons that would mean that Jesus got his own mother pregnant in an incestuous relationship with Marry who also happens to be one of his own children.

    Jawadiahmad
  • Dr_MaybeDr_Maybe 27 Pts
    edited February 5
    Did I kill this thread or something? I'll remove my post if you guys think what I said should not be in this thread.
  • Dr_MaybeDr_Maybe 27 Pts
    edited February 5
    Double posted, sorry!
  • No not at all.  Your questions made me ask my Catholic group who gave me tons of material to go through, then life got me distracted.  
    The quick answer I gleaned was that any simplified answer I give is considered heresy, so while the water answer makes sense to me, it is considered heresy.
    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/explaining-the-trinity
    "Each of the three persons in the godhead possesses the same eternal and infinite divine nature; thus, they are the one, true God in essence or nature, not “three Gods.” Yet, they are truly distinct in their relations to each other."
    So what makes them the same is they possess the same divine nature.
    They are distinct in that they are separate beings.   The Son proceeds from the Father.  The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son.  
    John 1:1 explains the Father and Son by calling the Son the word:
    1In the beginning2 was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.a 2He was in the beginning with God.
    John 1:14
    14And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.

    The Father beget the son through word.  He actively and eternally generates the Son.  The Father and Son, spiritate the Holy Spirit (which mean beget but different)
     
    So probably jumping into heresy again but my take away is the Father created the Son with his word, the Son continues and exists because the word is continued.   The Father and Son love each other and their creation so much the Holy Spirit was created.  The three make God.
  • Anyone notice that "God" is not the name of a person?

    God is an office. Similar in function to "president", but as the say, no analogy is perfect.

    God has a name, or rather, has names. There are 3 persons who hold the office of God, but there is only one God. 

    The three persons of the Godhead  are one in essence, but distinct in function.
  • GwynneMa said:
    No not at all.  Your questions made me ask my Catholic group who gave me tons of material to go through, then life got me distracted.  
    The quick answer I gleaned was that any simplified answer I give is considered heresy, so while the water answer makes sense to me, it is considered heresy.
    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/explaining-the-trinity
    "Each of the three persons in the godhead possesses the same eternal and infinite divine nature; thus, they are the one, true God in essence or nature, not “three Gods.” Yet, they are truly distinct in their relations to each other."
    So what makes them the same is they possess the same divine nature.
    They are distinct in that they are separate beings.   The Son proceeds from the Father.  The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son.  
    John 1:1 explains the Father and Son by calling the Son the word:
    1In the beginning2 was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.a 2He was in the beginning with God.
    John 1:14
    14And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.

    The Father beget the son through word.  He actively and eternally generates the Son.  The Father and Son, spiritate the Holy Spirit (which mean beget but different)
     
    So probably jumping into heresy again but my take away is the Father created the Son with his word, the Son continues and exists because the word is continued.   The Father and Son love each other and their creation so much the Holy Spirit was created.  The three make God.

    I still think the trinity smacks of polytheism. It tries to solve the problem arising from Jesus in an obvious attempt to escape logic, reason and troubling questions. The trinity is just stuff made up by people, it's not real.

    You said, “so while the water answer makes sense to me, it is considered heresy.” and, “So probably jumping into heresy”. This is something I have been thinking about lately. People put stuff out in public on the internet about their own personal beliefs all the time. Very little of it would have been approved of by the church during the dark ages. During the dark ages what you believe was restricted to the church's interpretation and varying from that would get you killed.

    When religion was stripped of its authority it changed religion forever, now it's free to evolve.


  • I like the Greek pantheon better. It states that all the gods are essentially manifestations of various human traits. So, in a way, all the gods put together form a coherent whole, while individually representing integral parts of the whole. 

    In a way, different Greek gods fighting each other and plotting against each other represent different sides of the human character struggling for dominance. Just as a human is whole, and, at the same time, self-contradictory (we can both love and hate at the same time, be greedy and be altruistic at the same time, etc.), the gods form a whole, but contradict each other.

    The Christian concept of trinity seems quite a bit less interesting from the philosophical perspective.
  • MayCaesar said:
    I like the Greek pantheon better. It states that all the gods are essentially manifestations of various human traits. So, in a way, all the gods put together form a coherent whole, while individually representing integral parts of the whole. 

    In a way, different Greek gods fighting each other and plotting against each other represent different sides of the human character struggling for dominance. Just as a human is whole, and, at the same time, self-contradictory (we can both love and hate at the same time, be greedy and be altruistic at the same time, etc.), the gods form a whole, but contradict each other.

    The Christian concept of trinity seems quite a bit less interesting from the philosophical perspective.
    As I sat having my Raisin Bran this morning looking at the Sun with a smiling face on the box I had a thought: I wonder if the idea of god or gods is connected to anthropomorphism?

  • @Dr_Maybe
    Religion evolving is the reason we have so many Protestant churches.  Not really a good thing. (I do admit that many founding protestants had valid complaints)
    I doubt there is anything that can convince you of the trinity.  Many people have been moved to a conversion inti Christianity, but they do not start with the Trinity.
  • @YeshuaBought The Christian god is absolutely impossible because of this:
    If god creates the universe, then there is a sequence of prior creation --> creation --> post creation. Since god couldn't avoid engaging in this sequence principle, that means this sequence principle is higher than god, making god inherently a lesser thing and thus negating god as god at all.
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