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Why is the Gospel so offensive?
in Religion

I don't understand. Yeshua Jesus is offering the free gift of salvation to respentant sinners who know Him as God, Lord, and Savior. I just don't get it.
K_MichaelZombieguy1987



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Arguments

  • Not understanding doesn't make it offensive.
    Zombieguy1987AlofRI
  • @K_Michael I agree. I don't remember infering otherwise.
  • Salvation is an illogical concept. What you have done is done, and nothing can erase it from history. You can, however, through your action (and not through some divine benevolence) fix the consequences of what you did before, or redeem yourself by making up for it.

    "Oh, I sinned, I am so bad... I repent." - saying this means nothing. You just created some sound waves in the air, which will be extinguished in a few milliseconds.

    "Damn, I screwed up... Okay, let us move on, learn from this mistake and do a better job later." - now this I can respect; this has real world consequences.

    So, Gospel is not "offensive" in this regard. It is just senseless.
  • You are not redeemed or saved just by "repenting" vocally.
    You must have an actual sorrow for the things you did wrong, try to fix it and prevent similar mistakes by you and others.
    You have to have the right intent, or it won't count for anything.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1091 Pts
    edited January 20
    @K_Michael

    I do not care what the intent is. Intent means nothing, it exists only in the head of the person. I care about the action.

    Okay, you are sorry, you genuinely want to repent. Now what? What are you going to do about your failures?

    If you take action and fix those failures, then you do not need to repent: you redeemed yourself already.

    If you just repent, but it leads nowhere practically - then your repenting is meaningless.

    ---

    Christianity promotes this strange concept of "I feel sorrow = I gain some points". This is not how the real world works, however. If you have failed to pay off your loan, you will not go to the bank saying, "I feel sorry", and get an indulgence - you will either find a way to get the money to pay off the loan, or you will go to the courtroom and explain to the judge how sorry you are, and the judge will explain to you how fun your finances are going to be in the upcoming years.
    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987
  • God isn't like that judge. While your actions are important, they aren't the only part. Let's say you got hit by a bus and died after stealing a candy bar, before you could take any actions to redeem yourself. However, you had the intent to return to that store, apologise, and pay for the candy bar. Are you forgiven for that sin or not? you try to separate intent and action, but intent is the thought and planning to accomplish something.
    Besides, if only actions redeemed you, that would be the easy way out. Punched a guy and left without paying my bill? I'll go do some humanitarian work and donate some old clothes. All better. Now, to go drinking and paint the town red with my friends. See? If you think that good actions will make up for your bad actions, then you'll just repeat this cycle. The intent and sorrow are added so that you can try and break the cycle.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1091 Pts
    edited January 20
    Why would you be forgiven for any "sin" at all? If you kill someone's dog, then nothing you can possibly do will bring that dog back. Instead of wallowing in regret and pity, you can try to do something for the dog's owners or its canine mates - but whatever you do, what is done is done: the dog is gone.

    People should learn to focus more on their present and future, instead of agonizing over the past. The latter never did anyone any good.

    Want to redeem yourself for your mistakes? Then get your life straight and lead by example. I do not see the value in feeling sorrow and apologizing, but I do see the value in moving further and making the mistakes irrelevant next to your achievements.

    If someone murdered someone, proceeded to learn a few sciences while in prison, and led on to becoming a Nobel Prize winner in physics - then, in my eyes, they have demonstrated that they are no longer that person. Instead, if they had spent the whole time in prison wailing in regret - and came out with nothing but sorrow... Then they have learned nothing. Even if they have done a lot of community service at the same time, fundamentally they are stuck on their past, and that past has defined them and barred their progress as an individual.

  • You can progress as an individual by focusing on your past. If you look back on your worst moment, and think, "I will never be that person again," then you can go far. Moving on is important, and I didn't say to just mope around and feel sorry for doing something bad. But you should have regrets, a lesson learned. 
    I think you're making a larger effort to estrange our views from each other than is necessary. 
  • @MayCaesar Jesus is the God who loves His creation. Please debate me.
  • MayCaesar said:
    Salvation is an illogical concept. What you have done is done, and nothing can erase it from history. You can, however, through your action (and not through some divine benevolence) fix the consequences of what you did before, or redeem yourself by making up for it.

    "Oh, I sinned, I am so bad... I repent." - saying this means nothing. You just created some sound waves in the air, which will be extinguished in a few milliseconds.

    "Damn, I screwed up... Okay, let us move on, learn from this mistake and do a better job later." - now this I can respect; this has real world consequences.

    So, Gospel is not "offensive" in this regard. It is just senseless.
    MayCaesar said:
    Salvation is an illogical concept. What you have done is done, and nothing can erase it from history. You can, however, through your action (and not through some divine benevolence) fix the consequences of what you did before, or redeem yourself by making up for it.

    "Oh, I sinned, I am so bad... I repent." - saying this means nothing. You just created some sound waves in the air, which will be extinguished in a few milliseconds.

    "Damn, I screwed up... Okay, let us move on, learn from this mistake and do a better job later." - now this I can respect; this has real world consequences.

    So, Gospel is not "offensive" in this regard. It is just senseless.
    I disagree. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death. But Jesus saves those who repent of past, present, and future sins, and receive Him as their God, Lord, and Savior.
  • I don't think it's the Gospel per se that some may find offensive, it's the concept of an eternal all encompassing god, which you must revere or thank for whatever reason... Salvation? Christopher Hitchens once said something like this: The desire to subject yourself (and worst, others) to an invisible eternal dictator who thinks he deserves a complete dominion over your essence is absolutely abject and loathsome...
    Zombieguy1987AlofRI
  • @Plaffelvohfen Jesus is God, and deserves to be worshipped.
    Zombieguy1987
  • @YeshuaBought

    Why would any god deserve worship? I find that longing for worship is petty, more so when it come from a supposedly omniscient & omnipotent being... 
    Zombieguy1987
  • @Plaffelvohfen Maybe this is just me, but if God became flesh to be tortured to death to pay for my sins which really are many, I personally believe He is entitled to my worship. Jesus is the love of my life. I don't deserve Him, but I have Him anyway. He loves you, and if you were the only person who needed Him, He still would suffer and die for you. He is worth it. Jesus saved my physical life when He saved my soul. I was going to kill myself when I was 15, and being saved by Jesus gave me a reason to live. What basically is stopping you from loving Jesus? :)
  • @YeshuaBought

    What is stopping me from loving Jesus? First and foremost my rejection of the very concept of divinity I guess, then there's the fact that I don't think he actually existed... I do think the basic message is a good one but it's basically the Golden Rule blended with some unnecessary supernatural nonsense... 
  • @Plaffelvohfen What typ of evidence do you need, and I might be able to help you. :)
  • I don't understand. Yeshua Jesus is offering the free gift of salvation to respentant sinners who know Him as God, Lord, and Savior. I just don't get it.
    I find this pretty offensive.

    “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.” Dt.13:6-10

    The bible is a manual for bigotry. It's handy for those times when you need to hate somebody that is the same color as you are.

  • @Dr_Maybe You must be a leftist.
    Zombieguy1987
  • @Dr_Maybe This is NOT over. Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". You have been debunked.
    Zombieguy1987
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 100 Pts
    edited February 5
    @Plaffelvohfen What typ of evidence do you need, and I might be able to help you. :)
    How about empirical evidence?

    I've been raised a catholic, Sunday school and all. and I have come across all possible arguments and none was in the least convincing. I can understand a deistic view of Existence, although I've some reserves too, but I outright reject theism not only as nonsense but also as detrimental to human flourishing.
    Zombieguy1987
  • @Dr_Maybe You must be a leftist.
    Nope, I'm a rightest.
    Zombieguy1987
  • I don't think MOST of "the Gospel" is at all offensive. Much of it is just common sense, much of it is accepted by the majority of people as just that.
    Mostly because the alleged "author" never shows up to quiet the radicals that USE it as a control tool, many, (more all the time), can only see it as mythology. If a true "god" is "out there", he's like a CEO that's never seen by his workers. He loses respect and many begin to think he doesn't exist. S/HE/IT is guilty of poor management. Sometimes I have to see to believe, it's all I ask.
  • @Dr_Maybe This is NOT over. Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". You have been debunked.
    This is NOT over? What do you mean by that?
  • @AlofRI Prove that the Gospel is a myth.
  • @Dr_Maybe Liar. You are speaking like a bigoted Christian hating liberal. 
  • @Dr_Maybe Liar. You are speaking like a bigoted Christian hating liberal. 
    But I learned that trick from you guys so why is that a problem?


  • @YeshuaBought - Prove that Jesus was the Son of God and I'll prove that the Gospels are a myth.
    Plaffelvohfen
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