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Any Religion With A Creator God Is Absolutely False

13



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    Arguments


  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 3985 Pts   -  
    Dee said:
    @Plaffelvohfen

    You're correct this is why Ethangs stock answers are “ that’s stooooopid “ , “ you’re a doooofus “ or “ why are you dodging “ the guy is a perfect example of irrationality in action.

    I read with amusement during the week that the Bible Belt in the U S has the highest rates of teenage pregnancy , divorce , rape obviously that objective morality they claim ain’t working 
    His might be a case of cognitive dissonance though... But who knows, neuroscience may one day demonstrate that a deficiency in certain amino acids or an hormonal imbalance in the brain is the cause of such irrationality... One day, we might find out that being immoral is really just a medical condition that could be treated...

    Of course we're not there yet but considering what we know, and what we know about the speed at which our knowledge has increased in just the last 100 years, who's to know if immoral behaviors won't be perfectly explainable medically as evidently as doctors today can tell if you have the Pox? In say, 300-500 years? It could be even less too... We cannot rule out the possibility...
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @Plaffelvohfen

    Whatever is making him it’s remarkably effective 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    You don't win because you have a circle jerk with a buddy.

    This isn't atheist camp. is still even with friends.

    When you are able to answer the question, why is murder immoral, let us know.

    I have beaten you into posting nonsense without friends. And you're still a douche.
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    You don't win because you have a circle jerk with a buddy.

    This isn't atheist camp. is still even with friends.

    When you are able to answer the question, why is murder immoral, let us know.

    I have beaten you into posting nonsense without friends. And you're still a douche.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited March 2019
    @ethang5

    Ethang the prize dummy states ......You don't win because you have a circle jerk with a buddy.

    This isn't atheist camp. is still even with friends.

    When you are able to answer the question, why is murder immoral, let us know.

    I have beaten you into posting nonsense without friends. And you're still a douche. 


    My patient reply to the village ......

    Your question had has been answered 3 more times today you Jackass that’s 45 times now and you still cannot work it out 
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    >ETHANG loves Jesus .......hey I’m not judging 

    No, you're angry, so you're multiposting and highlighting your douchbaggery. Lol.

    Someone should have told you by now that stupidity will not win arguments.

    Now where is the hypocrite who was talking about insults? Your posts are now 100% insult, totally logic free. I've beaten you to posting mimes and jokes.

    You're running away from a simple question like a whore from an officer.

    No problem moron. You post your internet troll stupidity, and I will keep burning you.

    Lol. Murder is immoral because it's immoral.

    What an .
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited March 2019
    @ethang5


    Ethang the prize dummy states ......You don't win because you have a circle jerk with a buddy.

    This isn't atheist camp. is still even with friends.

    When you are able to answer the question, why is murder immoral, let us know.

    I have beaten you into posting nonsense without friends. And you're still a douche. 


    My patient reply to the village ......

    Your question had has been answered 3 more times today you Jackass that’s 45 times now and you still cannot work it out 

    Ethang says” I’m not here to answer questions on what  I think objective morality is what do you think we are on a debate site 

    My reply ....” yes Ethang “ 


  • calebsicacalebsica 95 Pts   -  
    The God of the Bible (Jesus) is outside of time, space and matter so he is not affected by that. 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Is lying immoral because it's......not telling the truth?

    Is adultery immoral because it's..........cheating on ones spouse?

    Is stealing immoral because it's.......taking something that isn't yours?

    Lol. You couldn't think your way out of a wet paper bag.

    I noticed too that not a single atheist offered a non-circular answer.

    But posting juvenile mimes, they are expert. The poor intellectual quality of atheists on the religion board is shocking.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ethang5

     THE FURIOUS VICIOUS CHRISTIAN TROLL ETHANG HAS ASKED THE SAME QUESTION REPEATEDLY NOW 53 TIMES I’VE EXPLAINED PATIENTLY 53 TIMES 


    HERE IS THE FURIOUS VICIOUS TROLL ETHANG BEING TOLD YET AGAIN .....WATCH HIS STUNNED INCOMPREHENSION AS HE ASKS YET AGAIN .........”BUH ,BUH WHY IS MURDER WRONG “

    My reply (54th ) Children as young as 4 understand this concept where I’m from why can’t you?

    Atheists mostly follow the Golden Rule 

    Murder is wrong because as an atheist I treat  others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. 

    Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them.  

    Murder deprives another of the life they are entitled too.

    This explanation totally stuns ETHANG as he wishes to know how an atheist can reach these decisions without praying or consulting a Bible 


    ETHANGS REFUSES TO ANSWER QUESTIONS HE SAID “I’M NOT HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS PLACE IS


    Ethang said god “invented “the Golden Rule he refuses to explain this merely answering “ because I said so “


    Ethang doesn’t know what objective morality as he refuses to define it


    Ethang says he doesn’t know what morality is without praying to god or reading the Bible for guidance , he refuses to define it 


    Ethang said there is a god because he said so he refuses to explain why


    Ethang said there are no other gods that’s stoopid  Ethang refuses to says why 


    Ethang said “ slavery, rape and infanticide were not in the Bible anyone that thinks so is stoopid  “ a real Christian dbox disagrees with Ethangs “assessment “ 


    Ethang said nothing is in the Bible unless he says so 


    Ethang said Atheists cannot be moral because they don’t pray or consult the Bible Ethang said this is because he says so






  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Lol. You're actually now posting in all caps.

    It's always so easy to make you trolls go berserk.

    And who are you reporting to? You @ your post to me but don't talk to me. How dumb are you?

    Anyway, I'll leave you to talk to your friends. Perhaps they will help you with your logic.

    At the very least it will help your confidence. You seem to need it.
  • calebsicacalebsica 95 Pts   -  
    my God is outside time space or matter so he is not affected from them
    Plaffelvohfen
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    Your lying about what I've said will not help you.

    Posting in all caps will not help you.

    The question is 

    Why is murder immoral?

    And this is a debate, I'm not asking you for directions.

    When you tire of making fake quotes, and posting gifs, I will be here with the question you're dodging.

    You will answer, run, or concede.

    That circular "answer" you gave has been thrown out.

    There is limited space between your ears, your skull can only be so thick. I'm patient. I was trained for trolls like you.

    Sooner or later, you will get it and answer, or run away with your tail between your legs.
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    Hi , 

    I have faith in you. No matter how long it takes you, you will learn.

    >Murder is wrong because as an atheist I treat  others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. 

    That has nothing to do with why murder is immoral. How you treat others is immaterial. The morality of murder doesn't depend on you or how you treat others.

    >Murder deprives another of the life they are entitled too.

    >This explanation totally stuns ETHANG 

    No it doesn't . It is circular. It makes no sense.

    You're dense, and you lie, but you will come around.

    Depriving another of the life they are entitled to is another way to say murder, it is not why murder is immoral because I could simply ask, why is depriving others of the life they are entitled to immoral?

    You must be relatively young so maybe you'll grow a few brain cells. I can wait.

  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ethang5



    THE FURIOUS AND DELUSIONAL VICIOUS “CHRISTIAN “TROLL ETHANG HAS ASKED THE SAME QUESTION REPEATEDLY NOW 58 TIMES I’VE EXPLAINED PATIENTLY 58

    TIMES 


    HERE IS THE FURIOUS VICIOUS TROLL ETHANG BEING TOLD YET AGAIN .....WATCH HIS STUNNED INCOMPREHENSION AS HE ASKS YET AGAIN .........”BUH ,BUH WHY IS MURDER WRONG , YOUR ANSWER CANNOT BE RIGHT CAUSE I SAID SO “




    My reply (54th ) Children as young as 4 understand this concept where I’m from why can’t you?

    Atheists mostly follow the Golden Rule 

    Murder is wrong because as an atheist I treat  others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect them to want to be treated. 

    Be mindful of the consequences of all your actions and recognize that you must take responsibility for them.  

    Murder deprives another of the life they are entitled too.

    This explanation totally stuns ETHANG as he wishes to know how an atheist can reach these decisions without praying or consulting a Bible 


    ETHANGS REFUSES TO ANSWER QUESTIONS HE SAID “I’M NOT HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS PLACE IS “?


    Ethang said god “invented “the Golden Rule he refuses to explain this merely answering “ because I said so “


    Ethang doesn’t know what objective morality as he refuses to define it


    Ethang says he doesn’t know what morality is without praying to god or reading the Bible for guidance , he refuses to define it 


    Ethang said there is a god because he said so he refuses to explain why


    Ethang said there are no other gods that’s stoopid  Ethang refuses to says why 


    Ethang said “ slavery, rape and infanticide were not in the Bible anyone that thinks so is stoopid  “ a real Christian dbox disagrees with Ethangs “assessment “ 


    Ethang said nothing is in the Bible unless he says so 


    Ethang said Atheists cannot be moral because they don’t pray or consult the Bible Ethang said this is because he says so










  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    Why is murder immoral?

    The answer cannot be circular, genius.

    Why is it immoral to deprive a person of their right to life?

    Run, run little chicken. When you lose your fear, the question will be here waiting for you.

    I will wait till you grow a brain.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ethang5

    You say ....Why is murder immoral?

    My reply .....Why is murder immoral Ethang because a bible says so , is that it?

    You say ....The answer cannot be circular, genius.

    My reply .....The answer cannot be circular genius 

    You say.....Why is it immoral to deprive a person of their right to life?

    My reply ....Why is it Immoral to deprive some of their right to life 

    You says.....Run, run little chicken. When you lose your fear, the question will be here waiting for you.

    My reply .....Run , run little klansman , When you loose your terror , the question will be here waiting for you.

    You say .....I will wait till you grow a brain.

    My reply .....I will wait till you grow a pair 
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee ;

    >You say ....Why is murder immoral?

    >My reply .....Why is murder immoral Ethang because a bible says so , is that it?

    I'm asking you Dee. I'm not trying to be difficult. 

    >You say ....The answer cannot be circular, genius.

    My reply .....The answer cannot be circular genius

    Since you're the one who's supposed to answer, it's good that you know a circular answer is unacceptable.

    >You say.....Why is it immoral to deprive a person of their right to life?

    >My reply ....Why is it Immoral to deprive some of their right to life 

    I'll take it that you don't know why it is immoral to deprive someone of their right to life.

    >You says.....Run, run little chicken. When you lose your fear, the question will be here waiting for you.

    >My reply .....Run , run little klansman , When you loose your terror , the question will be here waiting for you.

    Do you have a question ?

    >You say .....I will wait till you grow a brain.

    >My reply .....I will wait till you grow a pair 

    I have big ones. That is why I'm not afraid to answer you. And you have nothing to wait for. It's you dodging remember?

    Since you have shown me that you don't know why murder is immoral, I will tell you as soon as you're done with all your posts around the board.

    When we reach there, we'll talk.
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Deedee, you've gone quiet. Why?

    Have you run out of spam or have you just run away?

    Anyway, if you are through spamming and false quoting, I am ready to show you why murder is immoral.

    Education is a good thing.
    Zombieguy1987
  • calebsicacalebsica 95 Pts   -  
    God is outside time, space and matter.
    Zombieguy1987DeePlaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @calebsica

    So are unicorns 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @calebsica

    >God is outside time, space and matter.

    True. The creator must logically be separate from creation.

    But some people are not very good thinkers and do not get that
    Zombieguy1987
  • mickygmickyg 349 Pts   -  
    @ethang5...Has  yet to show an eyewitness account of jesus being ion earth.He is so afraid of me that he calls me a child and runs away.Pick a gospel and lets discuss who wrote it chickenshit.
    Zombieguy1987Dee
  • billbatardbillbatard 133 Pts   -  
    @Aranea absolutely?? please i doubt the existence of god, that doesnt mean i am an athesst there might be a god i just havent seen anything i consider proof well solid proof the big bang has me puzzled, you cant say that to an absolute stertainy nothng is absolute there may very well be fairies in the garden
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • billbatardbillbatard 133 Pts   -  
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • billbatardbillbatard 133 Pts   -  
    Image result for satan gifImage result for satan gifImage result for satan gif
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • billbatardbillbatard 133 Pts   -  
    Image result for satan gifImage result for satan gifImage result for satan gif
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • billbatardbillbatard 133 Pts   -  
    Image result for satan gif
    Plaffelvohfen
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • billbatardbillbatard 133 Pts   -  
    you think too much, just chill@Aranea
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • billbatardbillbatard 133 Pts   -  
    @Aranea put the crack pipe down 
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @mickyg

    >Has  yet to show an eyewitness account of jesus being ion earth.

    Because you stupidly think I have to answer your questions while you dodge mine.

    >He is so afraid of me that he calls me a child and runs away.

    Or I see you're one of those dolt atheists who believes he's some sort of boss. Either or.

    >Pick a gospel and lets discuss who wrote it chickenshit.

    Answer my questions first. You've dodged enough. Ethan does not reward stupidity.
  • mickygmickyg 349 Pts   -  
    Someone mentioned two gods?YES christianas don't have three gods.ONLY TWO.
    No where does jesusgod say ghost is a god.@ethang5
  • shenanigansshenanigans 18 Pts   -  
    A Religion based on a creator God is flawed and false.

    If God exists we have no idea what his rules or guidlines are, that why we have numerous Religions with different views.

    They dont know, It was made up, embellished over time.

    If im wrong show me what God wants.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  

    Consider this,

    My question to you, can man put the building blocks of life together now? The answer is no. Eventually man will be smart enough to put the building blocks together. Nevertheless, what would this prove? If anything it proves the existence of a creator. Because there is no experiment that man can perform that would disprove a creator. For the simple fact that the man himself represents a creator. The fact man is trying to build the building blocks of life, proves there was intelligence behind life. The only way evolution could be proven is for it to cross three hurdles. One it would have to happen all of the time without the assistance of anything. We should be able to walk outside and see something explode out of nothing, or we should be able to look into a telescope and see something explode out of nothing.  This would shatter the law of physics, cause and effect. The second hurtle would be the fact that lesser species still exist. According to evolutionists survival of the fittest means that the weaker species would die out or be wiped out. If we evolved from apes then why do we still have apes. They all should have been eliminated, or evolved. There are too many lesser or weaker species, why did some evolve but others didn't. The third hurdle is the fact that we cannot cross breed. If we are from them then we should be able to mate with them to create a new breed. But because of the makeup of DNA, it makes cross breeding impossible. You cannot inject human sperm in a whale and get a whale-man, or vice versa. You cannot even do this with apes and man. The more man learns makes these hurdles higher and higher.






  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  

    Consider this,

    My question to you, can man put the building blocks of life together now? The answer is no. Eventually man will be smart enough to put the building blocks together. Nevertheless, what would this prove? If anything it proves the existence of a creator. Because there is no experiment that man can perform that would disprove a creator. For the simple fact that the man himself represents a creator. The fact man is trying to build the building blocks of life, proves there was intelligence behind life. The only way evolution could be proven is for it to cross three hurdles. One it would have to happen all of the time without the assistance of anything. We should be able to walk outside and see something explode out of nothing, or we should be able to look into a telescope and see something explode out of nothing.  This would shatter the law of physics, cause and effect. The second hurtle would be the fact that lesser species still exist. According to evolutionists survival of the fittest means that the weaker species would die out or be wiped out. If we evolved from apes then why do we still have apes. They all should have been eliminated, or evolved. There are too many lesser or weaker species, why did some evolve but others didn't. The third hurdle is the fact that we cannot cross breed. If we are from them then we should be able to mate with them to create a new breed. But because of the makeup of DNA, it makes cross breeding impossible. You cannot inject human sperm in a whale and get a whale-man, or vice versa. You cannot even do this with apes and man. The more man learns makes these hurdles higher and higher.






    PlaffelvohfenDee
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    Just like a troll, you ran at the challenge.

    All you do is post the same stupidity over and over.

    When required to answers questions, you run like the chicken you are.

    There is a life outside you can live, you might want to look into that.
    Zombieguy1987
  • BrandyKnightBrandyKnight 62 Pts   -  
     Since the original question claims that any religion with a god creator is false, I will address it from the religion standpoint. For those of you who don't believe, it is impossible to understand or comprehend. That is why faith is at the core of any religion. 

      God is. God was. God will be. Time is only important to people. Those who have faith in God believe that they were made in his image but not to be equal to him in any way. He blinked and created. He can blink and destroy. He is not limited by any standards that humans may expect. The question equates God to the humans he created and their logic. God does not care about logic or time. Our lives on earth are short and like a blink. He chooses how He does things, but has never been and will never be, bound by anything. Claiming he created a pattern that He must follow is illogical from a religious standpoint because he makes the rules, not us. 

     This is not an argument for or against religious creationism. My point is simple based on the directness of the topic itself and looking at it from the standpoint of religion which makes the statement incorrect when it comes to believers of God the creator. 
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @BrandyKnight


    You said ....... He is not limited by any standards that humans may expect.

    My reply .....Ok let’s assume that is true and believers who state that god is the source of all morality which explains to them why their morality is objective are left with a huge problem , if god can change this moral code it’s not objective if he cannot he’s not all powerful, how is this resolved?


  • BrandyKnightBrandyKnight 62 Pts   -  
    @Dee ; I must have missed something. Can you explain what moral code you are referring to? 
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @BrandyKnight

    Sorry I should have been clearer , Christians talk about god being the source of morality as in he sets the standard not humans you brushed on this point by saying he’s not limited by our standards , I’m pointing out the major problem Christians have regards claiming  god is the source of morality......it’s only a side issue to maybe generate further debate , ignore if you wish 
  • BrandyKnightBrandyKnight 62 Pts   -  
    @Dee ; It's fine. I just wanted to make sure that I was understanding the question properly. 
      
      God did not change his moral standards, again arguing only from the religious standpoint only. If a Christian believes that God created everything and is, in fact, everything, then we know that He has set in motion the evolution of man from the beginning. Change has always been a part  of our world and our universe. If we believe in Him we know that he is responsible for all of it. The evolution of many things, science, industry, medicine and everything else is by his hand. If those things evolve and grow then it is a given that people would change with the world around them and expectations of behavior change as we evolve.  Jesus Christ, God in human form, came to change the world and did. and the New Testament reflects those changes. Again, faith is the underlying issue, If there is none, God and His work cannot be understood by simply using and comparing what we consider as logical. A supreme being is illogical to many, but that does not mean that one cannot or does not exist. Some things, as Christians believe, are beyond human understanding. At the end of the day, God can do whatever He wants and call it right. It sounds terrible, but it is what it is. 
      
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited May 2019
    @BrandyKnight

    You say ...... A supreme being is illogical to many, but that does not mean that one cannot or does not exist. Some things, as Christians believe, are beyond human understanding. At the end of the day, God can do whatever He wants and call it right. It sounds terrible, but it is what it is. 

    My reply ......A supreme may exist true but for me anyway highly unlikely. Christians will give answers to questions regarding god and depending on who you ask that answer can differ widely , Christians will claim a miracle when some odd event  takes place as in recently Notre Dame Cathedral where a large crucifix survived the inferno undamaged  yet when asked “why does god let babies be born with cancer “ will reply “he works in “mysterious “ways” .

    Believers cannot amongst themselves agree on one accepted interpretation of gods word which is why there are over 31 thousand denominations of Christianity worldwide 

    For a god to do whatever he wants and call it right is not a god a rational person would adore , that’s a tyrant.

    I asked several Christians in debate last year   “if god asked you to sacrifice your son on an altar to him would you do it “    they all stated
     “yes “  except one who said  “but god wouldn’t do that “  I said   “ but he did “    the reply     “ well he was only testing Abraham “  I said  “Abraham didn’t know this” 

    To be a believer this is the sort of irrational nonsense you have to justify and the hilarious thing is a Christian will laugh at and  find totally irrational the teachings of the Quran and other sacred books 

  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -   edited May 2019
    Still no answer about why things we call "wrong" are immoral.

    The atheist simply picks what he doesn't like and then calls it immoral.

    Asked why it's immoral, he replies, "I don't like it."

    It is not possible to use logic on such people.
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -   edited May 2019
    I said,

    Christianity does NOT say atheists lack morals. It says the morality of atheists lack authority. That is a different argument. The morality of an atheist is simply his personal tastes.

    As such, there is no reason why anyone other than that atheist should be obligated to follow that moral code. The morality of a Christian though, is objective, and applies to everyone, regardless of what anyone thinks of it.

    >Thats it your morality is objective because it comes from god ( which you keep denying )

    It isn't my morality. Your god paranoia is showing.

    >and everyone else is wrong because you say so.

    I'm only saying you are wrong, not everyone else. I'm debating you, not everyone else.

    >Now that’s hilarious you’re a right little dictator aren’t you?

    Do you feel threatened?

    You still have not told me why you think murder is immoral. Would you like me to tell you the non-circular reason why?

    Because you aren't well educated, you are unfamiliar with the concept of authority as used in ethics.

    So we have to take it slowly with you.
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -   edited May 2019
    @MayCaesar

    >I am curious, what dishonesty are you talking about? From what I have seen, atheists tend to be pretty straight about their claims.

    Atheists then not to answer questions about their claims.

    >While the religious people employ the dodgy rhetoric such as, "There is God, but it is not really the God you are thinking about, it is not something you can understand, it is not human, blah-blah-blah".

    Unless you can understand anything, I fail to see why It's dodgy.

    >It is always some mystical "it exists, but I cannot explain to you what it is" claims.

    I can. But have you ever considered that it IS mystical?

    >Ask me about anything that I think exists, and I will be able to explain to you clearly what, in my understanding, that something is, what you can do to confirm its existence and so on.

    Do you think abiogenesis exists?

    > will not talk about some ethereal deity that I can communicate with, but not in a way that anyone can understand.

    Really? For something "no one" can understand, God is doing pretty well wouldn't you say? Your depiction is a little skewed I would say.

    Not everything can be explained in a minute. Some things require more than the attention span of a gnat.

    And sometimes, the communication problem is in the atheists willingness to listen and not in the theists ability to transmit an idea.

    >Intellectual dishonesty is when you know your argumentation is flawed, yet make an effort to ignore its flaws.

    This is exactly what atheists do.

    >Atheists do not need to do that with regards to the subject, because they do not talk about fairy tales being a reality in the first place.

    Yet, that is exactly what they do.

    >Does not mean they cannot be intellectually dishonest in other ways, but on the subject of religion they are as honest as one can get.

    You sure see atheists through rose colored glasses.

    I find them to be arrogant and ignorant, and parroting atheist talking points instead of actually thinking.

    Constantly have to be reminded that their opinions are not reality, that this is a debate and their position is not established from the onset, and that the theist is not on an audition for their approval.

    They want to grill the theist without answering any questions themselves. I never allow that. I have not yet met an atheist whose basic objection was not based on ignorance or dishonesty.

    Yeah. You're different.
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • RealestThoughtsRealestThoughts 19 Pts   -  
    If God created time why would he need a creator? He always existed.@Aranea
    ZeusAres42

  • What is it exactly is it that you think atheists cannot see and what do you think they need to have to see it?




  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 Emerald Premium Member 2673 Pts   -   edited May 2019

    I think your argument is logically valid. Indeed if God did create time he would not need a creator.

    The same also goes for questions about the Big Bang. For instance, "there is no notion of time available to refer to. The concept of time only exists within our universe." -  Hawking, Stephen. Brief Answers to the Big Questions: the final book from Stephen Hawking. Hodder & Stoughton."

    RealestThoughts



  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -   edited May 2019
    @ZeusAres42

    >What is it exactly is it that you think atheists cannot see

    The difference between the argument we are making and the caricature of an argument they want us to be making.

    Every atheist I have ever seen answers, "Morality is possible without God/Religion." When we say "Atheist morality is subjective and therefore invalid."

    The Christian is actually making an observation about ethical authority, not directly about God.

    The principle behind the Christian's argument doesn't even require God. But when we tell the atheist this, he is so paranoid and trapped in his silly dichotomy, he simply ignores it and persists in thinking the Christian is attempting to advocate God.

    The Christian's position is logical. The atheist is free to present an alternative position, but it needs be logical. The standard is, "Is it logical?" Not, "Is God in it?"

    >and what do you think they need to have to see it?

    Pretend, if that is the only way they will think, that they are agnostic. Drop the crippling bias that short circuits their thinking.

    Debate step by step, some arguments cannot be laid out in one post.

    Simply think, instead of always being an anti-theistic militant.

  • The difference between the argument we are making and the caricature of an argument they want us to be making.

    And what is the argument they want you to make? And What is the argument you are making?

    Every atheist I have ever seen answers, "Morality is possible without God/Religion." When we say "Atheist morality is subjective and therefore invalid."

    So you say that Christians say Athiest Morality is subjective and invalid and in response, Atheists say Morality is possible without God/Religion correct?

    The Christian is actually making an observation about ethical authority, not directly about God.
    Could you describe this ethical authority at all please that you have observed?

    The principle behind the Christian's argument doesn't even require God. But when we tell the atheist this, he is so paranoid and trapped in his silly dichotomy, he simply ignores it and persists in thinking the Christian is attempting to advocate God.

    The Christian's position is logical. The atheist is free to present an alternative position, but it needs be logical. The standard is, "Is it logical?" Not, "Is God in it?"

    Ok. So what is it that you're trying to advocate yourself?

    Pretend, if that is the only way they will think, that they are agnostic. Drop the crippling bias that short circuits their thinking.

    Debate step by step, some arguments cannot be laid out in one post.

    Simply think, instead of always being an anti-theistic militant.
    What do you hope the atheist will achieve by pretending to be agnostic? 



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