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Is Evolution Real?
in Religion

By calebsicacalebsica 56 Pts edited March 23
Do you think that evolution is real?
Zombieguy1987



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Arguments

  • And where's your evidence that creationism is true then?
    Dee
    https://www.google.com/search?q=victims+of+religion&safe=active&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=x&ved=0ahukewihu9jugorfahwkmeakhbtib00q_auidigb&biw=1920&bih=963&safe=active

    Socialism/Communism are great on paper, but all you need to do is look at Venezuela or North Korea see why these economic systems fail

    Repealing the Second Amendment is the first step to Totalitarianism, and it needs to be prevented to protect our freedom 

    http://www.atheistrepublic.com/
  • DeeDee 234 Pts

    @calebsica

    Making a statement with nothing to back it up is not the way to encourage debate. Evolution is accepted as fact,  there is mountains of evidence to support it and not one alternative theory that can even challenge it. Incidentally if by some chance the whole theory was disproven it still wouldn’t prove there was a god.
    Zombieguy1987AlofRIEvidenceih8sharts
  • We can conclude that evolution is true because we have studied our DNA, and the DNA of other species that are similar to draw a conclusion that we have evolved from a common ancestor.
    Zombieguy1987AlofRIEvidence
    Sovereignty for Kekistan
  • We do have some similarities because some mammals also have blood but there is so many differences that evolution could not have happened.Zombieguy1987 said:
    And where's your evidence that creationism is true then?
    We are debating Evolution, not creationism
    Zombieguy1987AlofRI
  • calebsica said:
    We do have some similarities because some mammals also have blood but there is so many differences that evolution could not have happened.Zombieguy1987 said:
    And where's your evidence that creationism is true then?
    We are debating Evolution, not creationism

    If you’re denying Evolution, then prove why creationism is true.


    https://www.google.com/search?q=victims+of+religion&safe=active&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=x&ved=0ahukewihu9jugorfahwkmeakhbtib00q_auidigb&biw=1920&bih=963&safe=active

    Socialism/Communism are great on paper, but all you need to do is look at Venezuela or North Korea see why these economic systems fail

    Repealing the Second Amendment is the first step to Totalitarianism, and it needs to be prevented to protect our freedom 

    http://www.atheistrepublic.com/
  • @calebsica
    “...because some mammals have blood...” what? Thats not an argument! All animals have blood! DNA and blood are two different things! Maybe you should go back to 7th grade biology?
    Sovereignty for Kekistan
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1276 Pts
    calebsica said:
    We do have some similarities because some mammals also have blood but there is so many differences that evolution could not have happened.
    Over a period of many hundreds millions years serious differences are bound to appear. That it "could not have happened" seems to be an emotional judgment. But science is not concerned with emotions, it is concerned with the truth.

    Also, what do you mean by "some mammals also have blood"? All mammals have blood. By the very definition, mammals are a sub-group of warm-blooded animals.
    Zombieguy1987PlaffelvohfenAlofRI
  • Sorry about the blood typo. First, the earth is around 6000 years old, not billions. and yes simarlarities point to a common designer, not a common ancestor because there is no evidence for a common ancestor. Please show me some evidence if you have any!
    Thanks
    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987AlofRIEvidence
  • @calebsica Promise that you won't just deny all of the evidence that I present and I just might have the courtesy of posting the link to the wikipedia page for evolution here. Yeah, I would do that for you.
    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987Evidence
  • if I disagree with it I will give you evidence why the evidence is not valid. I will not just say." that's not true without giving you evidence"
  • @calebsica
    I have yet to see your credible evidence
    Zombieguy1987DeeEvidence
    Sovereignty for Kekistan
  • DeeDee 234 Pts
    @calebsica

    Oh no! You’re a young Earth creationist I’ve never met one in real life as they’re practically nonexistent in Europe although it seems there are a fair few in the US.

    You say .... First, the earth is around 6000 years old, not billions. 


    My reply .....What method did you use to determine  the age of the Earth?

    You say .....and yes simarlarities point to a common designer

    My reply ....Where is your proof for a “common designer”

    You say ......not a common ancestor because there is no evidence for a common ancestor. 

    My reply ....Their is a vast amount of evidence actually to support our common ancestry, to deny such is to deny an astonishing amount of different fields in the scientific world ........

    The most powerful evidence for common descent includes:

    • Anatomical homologies — Throughout the domains of life, organisms show a distinct pattern of constraints based on homology in development and construction of the body. For example, tetrapods have five digits because the ancestor of tetrapods had five digits. When a tetrapod does not seem to have five obvious digits, a review of their development shows that they start development with five and that they fuse together later to form fewer numbers.

    • DNA and RNA code — Almost all organisms use the same three-letter code for translating RNA into proteins. There are variations, such as the code used by mitochondria and some bacteria and fungi, but the differences are only minor. Regardless of the slight differences, all organisms use the same coding mechanism for translating the code into amino acid sequences.

    • Endogenous retroviral insertions — Ancient retroviruses inserted inactivated viral genes into genomes. For a retrovirus to be inherited in all members of a species, a series of highly improbable events must occur. The virus must insert into a gamete cell and it must mutate so it is inactive. That gamete cell must be used to make an embryo that lives to reproduce and whose genome fixates into the population at random location in the genome. This rare event is usually species specific.

    • Pseudogenes — Shared errors are a powerful argument for a common source. If two books describe the same concept in similar language, it's possible they just both converged on the same wording. However, if they both share the same grammar or spelling errors it becomes improbable to assume that they did not derive from a common source. There are genes that no longer code for a protein due to a mutation or error. Species often share the same pseudogene with the same inactivating mutation. A famous example of this is the L-gulonolactone oxidase that synthesizes vitamin C. All simians including humans share one pseudogene of inactivated L-gulonolactone oxidase, but the guinea pig has a different pseudogene indicating a different mutation.

    • Embryology — The pharyngula stage of embryonic development appears to be highly conserved. At this stage, it is difficult to tell the difference between various vertebrate species. This conserved state screams common ancestry, and the field of evolutionary development has expanded our knowledge of developmental genes and their consequent embryo ontogeny to amazing levels of detail, all thanks to acknowledging common descent.

    • Chromosome fusion — Gene fusion or chromosome fusion is when two chromosomes are spliced together. As an example, chimpanzees have one more chromosome than humans do. If the two species share a common ancestor, scientists should be able to figure out what happened to that chromosome. Researchers have found that chromosome 2 in humans is actually the fusion of two separate chimpanzee chromosomes. At the end of each chromosome is a marker called a telomere, which usually appears only on the ends. In human chromosome 2 it also appears in the center, marking where the two ends fused.

    • Convergence — The phylogenetic trees constructed using anatomical homology, DNA homology, pseudogenes, endogenous retroviral insertions, and many other methods all converge on a similar looking tree. There are slight differences but the general relationships of the trees are intact. If any of these methods were flawed, they would not converge on the same tree.

    • Uniqueness — The complex, predictive patterns of similarities and differences in the world of life have have a unique known explanation — no one has even hypothesized an alternative account for the patterns exhibited — either there is common descent or there is something which is somehow simulating common descent.


    Here are the branches of science you’re ignoring all because you’re a biblical literalist who would sooner believe in nonsense that has  not one jot of proof for its many claims 


    The branches of science you have to ignore to believe in young Earth creationism are numerous—containing practically all of known science—but most notably these sciences are biology (the theory of evolution and palaeontology), astronomy (starlight problem), geology (volcanic formation, sedimentation, plate tectonics), archaeology (historic development of ancient civilizations), dendrochronology (tree-ring dating), and physics (radiometric dating).

    AmericanFurryBoyZombieguy1987AlofRIEvidence
  • The DNA in a single cell is more complex than the space shuttle. Do you think that thing that complex? and the chances of the amino acids in a single cell coming by chance is  1/100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.
    not very good chances. In Macroevolution, you need mutations which is a loss of information not new information. Since it is a loss of information almost every mutation is harmful.  
    Zombieguy1987DeeAlofRIEvidence
  • Evolutionist say that each layer takes millions of years to form but there are some tree's fossilized standing up. I don't think it stayed standing up for millions of years.
    Zombieguy1987DeeAlofRIEvidence
  • @calebsica
    I have yet to see your credible evidence

    Thats because if he gave evidence, it’d likely be refuted and then he’d get triggered and say “But muh god!”

    Evidence
    https://www.google.com/search?q=victims+of+religion&safe=active&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=x&ved=0ahukewihu9jugorfahwkmeakhbtib00q_auidigb&biw=1920&bih=963&safe=active

    Socialism/Communism are great on paper, but all you need to do is look at Venezuela or North Korea see why these economic systems fail

    Repealing the Second Amendment is the first step to Totalitarianism, and it needs to be prevented to protect our freedom 

    http://www.atheistrepublic.com/
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1276 Pts
    @calebsica

    "I don't think" is not a very strong scientific argument. I did not think of Casimir effect until I found its explanation in one of the physics books; I do understand it now.

    You should try thinking in a bit more concrete terms, than what your gut feelings say.
    Zombieguy1987Evidence
  • AlofRIAlofRI 116 Pts
    The only thing pointing to creation is a Bible written in the age of mythology, and theology, little difference IMO.

    Pointing to evolution we have multiple sciences and stacks of evidence backed up by years of study of thousands of learned students of those sciences.

    To me it just brings credence to the saying:
    Arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon, no matter how many clever moves you come up with, the pigeon will knock over all the pieces and on the board.
     
    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987Evidence
  • @calebsica
    If they are that complicated then how did your god create then?
    DeeZombieguy1987
    Sovereignty for Kekistan
  • EvidenceEvidence 800 Pts
    AlofRI said:
    The only thing pointing to creation is a Bible written in the age of mythology, and theology, little difference IMO.

    Pointing to evolution we have multiple sciences and stacks of evidence backed up by years of study of thousands of learned students of those sciences.

    To me it just brings credence to the saying:
    Arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon, no matter how many clever moves you come up with, the pigeon will knock over all the pieces and on the board.
     

    @AlofRI ; So looking at the billions of creations man made over the years don't give you a clue that maybe there is a Creator like us who created all these things that we didn't!?

    How about use your brains and think, like: Hmm, .. you know what, since the beginning of recorded history, not one scientist has ever witnessed one specific species evolve into a different species, yet Evolutionists swear that all life is evolving as we speak, and have been evolving for millions and billions of years. Every animal, every bacteria, all from the amoeba to human been evolving for millions and billions of years, yet no one has EVER witnessed one species morph, evolve, give birth, mutate into another specific species, .. not One."

    But they keep saying evolution happens. Well if millions and billions of years is not enough time to see one speciation happen, then obviously it NEVER happened.

    Oh wait, Hold The Phone, … I just dropped off a dried up vestigial organ, so I guess I really am evolving, .. my apologies.
    Wait, ..now what's this? I just noticed I have been growing three new limbs, just shown up after 2.5 billion years of evolving, do you guys have that too? Or since I grew up on another tectonic plate, and ate different sausages,  I may be growing different organs than you guys? This is cool, .. they all three are growing on my back! I wonder what they will be? Maybe two more arms, and an eye, .. that would be soooo helpful!

    Oh my, now I'm worried, because I keep tossing and turning at night, … what if they break off, or grow all weird on me because we wear clothes now, not walk around naked in the dark caves like we used to!? Oh well, if our prehistoric ancestors could grow our four, I mean six extremities for billions of years, from a tiny bud like mine, to full two arms and leggs without braking them off at night in bed, than I can too!

    Question for evolutionists? Since these new organs are growing on me, will I pass these on to my children? You know, when my wife has our kids, will they have these same budding organs on their backs too? And their kids and so on for the next million or so years, each time a teeny-tiny bit bigger and taking more shape generation after generation?

    Well @calebsica  I guess this proves evolution is happening, and God does not exist!

    Hey buddy AlofRI, go and check what's growing on you? Does a couple of places on the back of your head itch a lot? Don't scratch it, they could be two eyes evolving on the back of your head, wouldn't that be cool!? Of course we won't know this for at least another 60-70 generations, but who cares, this proves evolution, right?


    I love debating Globetard's, especially their comprehension of science, .. it's hilarious.
    Zombieguy1987
  • @AmericanFurryBoy Ok, The claim that we do not see speciesationis false. we have  species a Goldendoodle and others. You do not gain genetic information when you have a mutation, you lose information which deproves evolution because that is the only way to evolve. having different  species is not evolving, it is adapting. I don't see an argument in the most@AmericanFurryBoy
  • The dating methods don't work
    Zombieguy1987
  • EvidenceEvidence 800 Pts
    Dee said:
    @calebsica

    Oh no! You’re a young Earth creationist I’ve never met one in real life as they’re practically nonexistent in Europe although it seems there are a fair few in the US.

    You say .... First, the earth is around 6000 years old, not billions. 


    My reply .....What method did you use to determine  the age of the Earth?

    You say .....and yes simarlarities point to a common designer

    My reply ....Where is your proof for a “common designer”

    You say ......not a common ancestor because there is no evidence for a common ancestor. 

    My reply ....Their is a vast amount of evidence actually to support our common ancestry, to deny such is to deny an astonishing amount of different fields in the scientific world ........

    The most powerful evidence for common descent includes:

    • Anatomical homologies — Throughout the domains of life, organisms show a distinct pattern of constraints based on homology in development and construction of the body. For example, tetrapods have five digits because the ancestor of tetrapods had five digits. When a tetrapod does not seem to have five obvious digits, a review of their development shows that they start development with five and that they fuse together later to form fewer numbers.

    • DNA and RNA code — Almost all organisms use the same three-letter code for translating RNA into proteins. There are variations, such as the code used by mitochondria and some bacteria and fungi, but the differences are only minor. Regardless of the slight differences, all organisms use the same coding mechanism for translating the code into amino acid sequences.

    • Endogenous retroviral insertions — Ancient retroviruses inserted inactivated viral genes into genomes. For a retrovirus to be inherited in all members of a species, a series of highly improbable events must occur. The virus must insert into a gamete cell and it must mutate so it is inactive. That gamete cell must be used to make an embryo that lives to reproduce and whose genome fixates into the population at random location in the genome. This rare event is usually species specific.

    • Pseudogenes — Shared errors are a powerful argument for a common source. If two books describe the same concept in similar language, it's possible they just both converged on the same wording. However, if they both share the same grammar or spelling errors it becomes improbable to assume that they did not derive from a common source. There are genes that no longer code for a protein due to a mutation or error. Species often share the same pseudogene with the same inactivating mutation. A famous example of this is the L-gulonolactone oxidase that synthesizes vitamin C. All simians including humans share one pseudogene of inactivated L-gulonolactone oxidase, but the guinea pig has a different pseudogene indicating a different mutation.

    • Embryology — The pharyngula stage of embryonic development appears to be highly conserved. At this stage, it is difficult to tell the difference between various vertebrate species. This conserved state screams common ancestry, and the field of evolutionary development has expanded our knowledge of developmental genes and their consequent embryo ontogeny to amazing levels of detail, all thanks to acknowledging common descent.

    • Chromosome fusion — Gene fusion or chromosome fusion is when two chromosomes are spliced together. As an example, chimpanzees have one more chromosome than humans do. If the two species share a common ancestor, scientists should be able to figure out what happened to that chromosome. Researchers have found that chromosome 2 in humans is actually the fusion of two separate chimpanzee chromosomes. At the end of each chromosome is a marker called a telomere, which usually appears only on the ends. In human chromosome 2 it also appears in the center, marking where the two ends fused.

    • Convergence — The phylogenetic trees constructed using anatomical homology, DNA homology, pseudogenes, endogenous retroviral insertions, and many other methods all converge on a similar looking tree. There are slight differences but the general relationships of the trees are intact. If any of these methods were flawed, they would not converge on the same tree.

    • Uniqueness — The complex, predictive patterns of similarities and differences in the world of life have have a unique known explanation — no one has even hypothesized an alternative account for the patterns exhibited — either there is common descent or there is something which is somehow simulating common descent.


    Here are the branches of science you’re ignoring all because you’re a biblical literalist who would sooner believe in nonsense that has  not one jot of proof for its many claims 


    The branches of science you have to ignore to believe in young Earth creationism are numerous—containing practically all of known science—but most notably these sciences are biology (the theory of evolution and palaeontology), astronomy (starlight problem), geology (volcanic formation, sedimentation, plate tectonics), archaeology (historic development of ancient civilizations), dendrochronology (tree-ring dating), and physics (radiometric dating).


    Amazing how closely scientists been observing evolution like For example, you say: tetrapods have five digits because the ancestor of tetrapods had five digits. When a tetrapod does not seem to have five obvious digits, a review of their development shows that they start development with five and that they fuse together later to form fewer numbers. The question is, has any evolution-scientists observed the actual fusing? I mean it's been billions of years, how much more time do they need before the scientists can actually see them fuse?

    @Dee said  ....Their is a vast amount of evidence actually to support our common ancestry, to deny such is to deny an astonishing amount of different fields in the scientific world ........ 

    So is the "common ancestor" a species, and does each of the 8,000,000 different species on earth have a "common ancestor"? Where are they?
    Are they the ones in the dirt, or in the graves evolving as we speak? You know, like in the form of fossils?
    Zombieguy1987Dee
  • I don't get why Christians don't share my belief in a God-created evolutionary system. Here is a nice video about how you can create natural selection to create an AI: 

    Why couldn't God have done the same thing?
    Zombieguy1987
  • DeeDee 234 Pts
    @Evidence

    You really need to read a book or two apart from the Bile if you want some pertinent information , or simply try google you could start with common descent and work through it slowly ......
    Zombieguy1987
  • The chances of a single protien in a cell to be made by chance is 1/100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    Zombieguy1987PlaffelvohfenDee
  • @calebsica
    Youre actually stupid
    Zombieguy1987
    Sovereignty for Kekistan
  • Thanks for the encouragement!
    Zombieguy1987
  • Thanks for the encoragment!
    Zombieguy1987
  • calebsica said:
    Do you think that evolution is real?
    What happens in the video below is by definition called evolution.


    AmericanFurryBoyZombieguy1987
  • EvidenceEvidence 800 Pts
    Dee said:
    @Evidence

    You really need to read a book or two apart from the Bile if you want some pertinent information , or simply try google you could start with common descent and work through it slowly ......

    Science is observation, documentation, .. and no Book on "common descent" claims they observed one species evolve/change/morph/mutate or give birth to another, separate different species, not one.

    If it happened a billion years ago, it should be happening right now with eight million different species evolving as we speak. And according to Evolution, they have been evolving for millions and even billions of years. Eight million species that have been evolving for billions of years, yet none of the millions of scientists has ever seen speciation, or what they call macro evolution, where one species turns into a completely different species!?
    Explain that?

    Bacteria, moths, cats, dogs, horses and pigeons remain what God created them as: cat's dogs, horses etc. after their own kind, never changing into another completely distinct species.
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