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Trump lies some more, this time about Medicare. Why even listen to him?

Debate Information


— Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), remarks at a news conference, March 12, 2019

“$800 billion in Medicare cuts and this is, as we know, after the president has said over and over again he wouldn’t cut Medicare and yet that’s in his budget.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/15/democrats-engage-mediscare-spin-trump-budget/?utm_term=.97baac0a1ccb


"I'm not gunna cut Social Security like every other Republican. I'm not gunna cut Medicare or Medicaid." Candidate Donald Trump 15/05/26


"I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's gunna be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now." Candidate Trump 15/09/27 to CBS Scott Pelly


"You're going to have such great healthcare at a tiny fraction of the cost." candidate Trump 16/10/25 from campaign podium
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  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    This is my body, I have the right to receive healthcare.
    Zombieguy1987
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -   edited March 2019
    You didn't bother reading past the Schumer quote.  That's a shame, because the article is all about how people like Schumer use fake stats like his "$800 billion in Medicare cuts" to try to scare voters.

    These quotes may be a decade apart, but they show how both parties play the game of what we at The Fact Checker call “Mediscare.”

    The game is played this way: When the president’s budget is released, claim that any difference over 10 years between anticipated Medicare spending (what is known as the “baseline”) and changes in law intended to reduce spending are devastating “cuts” that will harm seniors who rely on the old-age program.

    But here’s the problem: Most of these anticipated savings are wrung from health providers, not Medicare beneficiaries. Hospitals and doctors may object, sometimes vehemently, but often these are good-government reforms intended to make the program run more efficiently and with lower costs.


    The real question is, why does anyone continue to listen to Schumer, Stabenow, or McConnell.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    "This is my body, I have the right to receive healthcare." YB
    That's an ignorant and exceedingly dangerous political philosophy. Healthcare is several things, but a major component of it is a service that human beings provide to human beings. I deduce you are not a full-time professional healthcare provider. But perhaps you have other skills worthy of a $paycheck in the U.S. job market.
    That's fine. So do I.
    Question:
    Once YOU establish the precedent of declaring someone else's labor your right, what job skill that you have will be at risk of being declared someone else's right?

    YOU have a right to receive the finest level of healthcare you can afford.
    You have NO right to force me to pay for your healthcare.

    Thanks Cd.
    I'm not wild about the 10 year standard either. Thank you for articulating it so concisely.

     BUT !!

    As long as both parties apply the standard equally, it at least gives us a chicken and chicken comparison, rather than chicken & egg.
    And while I welcome your sharp counterpoint, I will observe that in my experience, on changes of this broad a scope & scale, there are inevitably winners and losers.
    YeshuaBoughtZombieguy1987
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    @sear This is my body, I have the right to live. Healthcare is an absolute human right. How dare you say I don't have the right to live.
    Zombieguy1987
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    " This is my body," YB

    And this is mine.

    "I have the right to live." YB

    As do I.

    "Healthcare is an absolute human right." YB

     a) -piffle-

     b) A "right" accorded by whom or what? By god? Then what is god doing to provide this healthcare you pretend you're entitled to?

     c) You're conflating life, with healthcare. It is more than merely a logical fallacy.

    "How dare you say I don't have the right to live." YB
    It would never occur to me to make any such assertion.
    I'm simply opposed to the form of slavery your advocate. We are lucky to have the healthcare provider talent we have in the U.S.
    I am opposed on both principle and pragmatism to your call to enslave them, or me.
    Know it or not, believe it or not, like it or not, admit it or not; the result of compelling our healthcare providers to provide their services to you at no $charge to you would soon result in an extreme shortage of healthcare providers.

    And once your precedent was set in law, what other professions would succumb to it? I have a right to strut down the sidewalk without being beaten, robbed, and murdered. By YOUR standard therefore I have an "absolute right" to police protection.
    Police work is dangerous. How many do you think we'd find to fill these jobs, if instead of thanking them for public service, we treated them as slaves? That we have as much right to the fruits of their labors at Southern plantation owners claimed before Sumpter?

    Think it through YB.
    There's no denying there are unresolved healthcare issues in the U.S.
    Your prescribed solution would inevitably lead to the death of the patient, the U.S. citizenry.
    Zombieguy1987
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4676 Pts   -  
    Politicians are masters of making promises they cannot fulfill. Whenever someone promises that their policy will benefit everyone, you know they are full of it, because realistically there is absolutely nothing one can do that will benefit every single person in a 300+ million population. Even if you develop an immortality elixir and distribute it among the entire population for free, there will definitely be, at least, someone who will say, "I do not want my neighbour to live forever, because I hate him and wish him a slow and painful death".

    We should develop a culture of concrete statements in politics. Not "Our healthcare will be so good, the entire world will envy us!", but, say, "By 2019, the average dental x-ray price in the US will drop by at least 40%, compared to 2016". This way we can actually hold politicians accountable for failing to deliver. While in the current culture, politicians make such outrageous promises that, were we to hold them accountable, every single politician would have to be fired on the spot - hence we do not. We expect a politician to lie, it is a given. This is no bueno, friends.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    "It is the hallmark of a con man to over-promise and under deliver.
    Capable, and savvy men - businessmen, politicians, scientists - know to under promise and over-deliver." Cypress, on keeping ones word / integrity

    "Politicians are masters of making promises they cannot fulfill." MC

    Trump is off the scale. I've never known any other person, let alone any other U.S. president that told such preposterous lies:

     - I'm gunna build a wall, Mexico's gunna pay for it.

     - "I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's gunna be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now." Candidate Trump 15/09/27 to CBS Scott Pelly

     - "You're going to have such great healthcare at a tiny fraction of the cost." candidate Trump 16/10/25 from campaign podium

    - “There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea.” President Trump 2018, after his poorly prepared summit w/ NK/KJU
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud. His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. ... playing the members of the American public for suckers. He gets a free ride to the White House. And all we get is a lousy hat." 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney (R)
    CYDdharta
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    @sear . You said I don't have the right to live.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    . If that were true you could quote my EXACT POSTED WORDS !!

    And we both know you won't,
    because we both know you can't,
    because we both know I didn't.
    Since you won't quote me, I will.
    "YOU have a right to receive the finest level of healthcare you can afford.
    You have NO right to force me to pay for your healthcare." s
    No words I've ever posted impart the grammatical meaning that anyone doesn't have the right to live. You disgrace yourself and your credibility in this forum with your conspicuous lies so easily proven false.
    YeshuaBought
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -  
    sear said:


    Thanks Cd.
    I'm not wild about the 10 year standard either. Thank you for articulating it so concisely.

     BUT !!

    As long as both parties apply the standard equally, it at least gives us a chicken and chicken comparison, rather than chicken & egg.
    And while I welcome your sharp counterpoint, I will observe that in my experience, on changes of this broad a scope & scale, there are inevitably winners and losers.

    The 10 year standard, if there is any, isn't the problem.  The problem is that these cuts aren't actually cuts, they're reductions in the projected rate of growth.

    Medicare spending is projected to grow more than $10 trillion over the course of the decade, so it’s essentially a 5 percent reduction in projected spending. Outlays for Medicare are estimated to be 3.5 percent of the gross domestic product in 2029, compared with 2.9 percent in 2018.

    Moreover, most of these so-called cuts are not coming at the expense of seniors; they are intended to reduce out-of-pocket costs for seniors by making the program more efficient. The administration says the cost reductions would extend the solvency of the Medicare trust fund by eight years.

    Who are the winners and losers if Medicare goes bankrupt, as is projected?
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    " The problem is that these cuts aren't actually cuts, they're reductions in the projected rate of growth."  Cd
    You seem to be attempting to make a valid distinction. But a cut is a cut, and cut and reduction are synonymous in this application.
    The issue is not IF it is a cut, but WHAT is being cut.
     Reagan called it a decrease in the increase.
     Obama called it bending down the cost curve. Trump can call it whatever he likes.
    But by my $math, as no body here has challenged Schumer's $800 $Billion figure, that's $80 $Billion a year, each year, for a decade. Do you know how many walls Trump could buy with just one year's $worth?
    "... everyone's for big government. The American People say we hate big government, but we like our social security and medicare. That's 38% of government right there. The biggest components of government are the most popular components of government." George Will Nov 30, 2003
    "Who are the winners and losers if Medicare goes bankrupt, as is projected?" Cd

    Books have been written on that. I won't re-write them all here.
    But one big class of winners if Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid go under is the private sector.
    These "entitlements" compete directly with and rob market share from our private sector providers.
    They would absorb a substantial portion of the $hundreds of $Billions in business our government now robs from them. Government should regulate, not administer.
    CYDdharta
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -  
    sear said:
    " The problem is that these cuts aren't actually cuts, they're reductions in the projected rate of growth."  Cd
    You seem to be attempting to make a valid distinction. But a cut is a cut, and cut and reduction are synonymous in this application.
    The issue is not IF it is a cut, but WHAT is being cut.
     Reagan called it a decrease in the increase.
     Obama called it bending down the cost curve. Trump can call it whatever he likes.
    But by my $math, as no body here has challenged Schumer's $800 $Billion figure, that's $80 $Billion a year, each year, for a decade. Do you know how many walls Trump could buy with just one year's $worth?

    Once again, read your own $article.  I could keep posting quotes from your $article but that's not my job.  The $article, which you posted, clearly demonstrates just why $Schumer's $800 $billion figure is wrong.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    You continue to quibble about whether it's a cut in spending, or a cut in growth in spending.
    Couldn't possibly matter less, IF it's a "cut" or a "reduction". For in either semantic case, AND in the backdrop of $20 $Trillion debt and $Trillion $Dollar $Republican / $Trump annual $deficits,
    if we don't spend it on A, then we (McConnell [R]) can instead spend it on B.

    Please don't attempt to insinuate yourself here as the $fiscal $conservative. You'll never cyber-encounter a more tenacious deficit hawk than sear.
    CYDdharta
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -   edited March 2019
    sear said:
    You continue to quibble about whether it's a cut in spending, or a cut in growth in spending.
    Couldn't possibly matter less, IF it's a "cut" or a "reduction". For in either semantic case, AND in the backdrop of $20 $Trillion debt and $Trillion $Dollar $Republican / $Trump annual $deficits,
    if we don't spend it on A, then we (McConnell [R]) can instead spend it on B.

    Please don't attempt to insinuate yourself here as the $fiscal $conservative. You'll never cyber-encounter a more tenacious deficit hawk than sear.
    Read your own $article

    You're wrong, either mistakenly (which is pretty sad, since it's your article) or intentionally (aka lying).  $Schumer's $800 Billion figure is wrong.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    Excellent!
    I'm obviously so transcendently inferior in intellect, linguistic skills, and comprehension that I need to have these elemental details spelled out for me in detail.
    You needn't publish an annotated thesis.

    But if you would demonstrate the fundamental human compassion to simply concisely post ONE correction, I would consider it a charitable generosity.

    If the true number is $798.734 $Billion, that's fine. Then please post that correction.
    If instead of over 10 years it's over 11, or 13.2, THAT'S fine. Please let us all know.

    But your vague hysteria about "$Schumer's $800 Billion figure is wrong" is utterly pointless if you won't offer us all even a shadow of a clue about what error you perceive.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -  
    sear said:
    Excellent!
    I'm obviously so transcendently inferior in intellect, linguistic skills, and comprehension that I need to have these elemental details spelled out for me in detail.
    You needn't publish an annotated thesis.

    But if you would demonstrate the fundamental human compassion to simply concisely post ONE correction, I would consider it a charitable generosity.

    If the true number is $798.734 $Billion, that's fine. Then please post that correction.
    If instead of over 10 years it's over 11, or 13.2, THAT'S fine. Please let us all know.

    But your vague hysteria about "$Schumer's $800 Billion figure is wrong" is utterly pointless if you won't offer us all even a shadow of a clue about what error you perceive.

    Here's the flaw in that approach; if you're really so dim that you actually read the article but couldn't comprehend what was written, then my posting it won't do you any good, as you still won't be able to understand what was written.  If you're just too lazy to read your own article, as I suspect, that's really sad and I don't feel compelled to aid you in your slothfulness.  I'll start you off with a nudge, look for a " $269 billion 'cut'".

    Now back to your "a cut is a cut, and cut and reduction" argument; this is true, a cut is a cut is a reduction.  A cut in Medicare is a reduction of Medicare's budget.  The problem with $Schumer's argument is that even under the president's plan Medicare's budget is NEVER cut, it is increased ... significantly.

    The article you sourced says $sen $Schumer is lying, not president Trump.  You haven't posted any evidence to support your assertion.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    " You haven't posted any evidence to support your assertion." Cd

     a) False. I quoted the minority leader of the United States senate. That qualifies as "evidence" disproving your charge.

     b) I've been posting since the previous millennium. Bitter experience has taught me that when sensible posters have a valid point they're not bashful about clearly stating it.
    It's the trolls like you that pretend, accuse, criticize, and provide bogus analyses, but refuse even at repeated prompting to substantiate your claim.

    I've followed a few of these to the end; usually it's just a misperception on the troll's part. No offense, but I simply don't care enough to bother with you. Happy St. Pat's.
    CYDdharta
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -   edited March 2019
    sear said:
    " You haven't posted any evidence to support your assertion." Cd

     a) False. I quoted the minority leader of the United States senate. That qualifies as "evidence" disproving your charge.

     b) I've been posting since the previous millennium. Bitter experience has taught me that when sensible posters have a valid point they're not bashful about clearly stating it.
    It's the trolls like you that pretend, accuse, criticize, and provide bogus analyses, but refuse even at repeated prompting to substantiate your claim.

    I've followed a few of these to the end; usually it's just a misperception on the troll's part. No offense, but I simply don't care enough to bother with you. Happy St. Pat's.

    You've posted an article that proves $Schumer is lying.  The $Schumer quote is used expressly as an example of the lies politicians peddle about Medicare, hence the title of the piece;

    Democrats engage in ‘Mediscare’ spin on the Trump budget



    I've been posting for decades as well.  I must admit it's rare to see someone try to start a discussion with an article that completely undermines his thread topic.  Kudos to you, sir;  you are truly an original.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    "the lies politicians peddle" Cd

    You mean like:

     - I'm gunna build a wall. - - Mexico's gunna pay for it. -

    "I'm not gunna cut Social Security like every other Republican. I'm not gunna cut Medicare or Medicaid." Candidate Donald Trump 15/05/26

    "I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's gunna be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now." Candidate Trump 15/09/27 to CBS Scott Pelly

    "You're going to have such great healthcare at a tiny fraction of the cost." candidate Trump 16/10/25 from campaign podium

    Cd:
    Trump lies more than any other human I can name.
    There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea.” President Trump 2018, after his poorly prepared summit w/ NK/KJU

    CYDdharta
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -   edited March 2019
    sear said:
    "the lies politicians peddle" Cd

    You mean like:

     - I'm gunna build a wall. - - Mexico's gunna pay for it. -

    "I'm not gunna cut Social Security like every other Republican. I'm not gunna cut Medicare or Medicaid." Candidate Donald Trump 15/05/26

    "I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's gunna be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now." Candidate Trump 15/09/27 to CBS Scott Pelly

    "You're going to have such great healthcare at a tiny fraction of the cost." candidate Trump 16/10/25 from campaign podium

    Cd:
    Trump lies more than any other human I can name.
    There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea.” President Trump 2018, after his poorly prepared summit w/ NK/KJU


    No, I mean actual lies, like $Schumer and the last president.


  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    "No, I mean actual lies" Cd

    Excellent.
    Thanks for confirming that you agree with me.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -   edited March 2019
    sear said:
    "No, I mean actual lies" Cd

    Excellent.
    Thanks for confirming that you agree with me.

    No, thank you for confirming that even you think $Schumer and 0bama are liars.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    Quote me.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -  

    No, I mean actual lies, like $Schumer and the last president.

    sear said:
    "No, I mean actual lies" Cd

    Excellent.
    Thanks for confirming that you agree with me.

  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    So you're so deluded you think Mexico actually will pay for the wall ?!     

    Evidently you're having a "better" St. Pat's than I am.

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -  
    sear said:
    So you're so deluded you think Mexico actually will pay for the wall ?!     

    Evidently you're having a "better" St. Pat's than I am.


    Trump NEVER said anything about Mexico paying for the wall either upfront or outright, it was always that Mexico will pay for the wall one way or another.  Renegotiating NAFTA on better terms for the US was always the most likely form of payment.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    "Trump NEVER said ..." Cd

    For you to know that as a certitude, as you have stated it, you would have to know every sentence Trump ever spoke.
    I claim no supernatural powers. But I'm guessing wildly you have not heard everything Trump ever said.

    And I acknowledge your linguistic deficiency. I NEVER asserted Trump used the words "up front" or "outright". Trump's assertion, which I've seen / heard / read via multiple verifying venues, was unqualified. Trump simply promised that Mexico would pay for it.

    Trump lied.
    Anyone that denies that is either ignorant, a fool, or a .
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -  
    sear said:

    Trump lied.
    Anyone that denies that is either ignorant, a fool, or a .

    Everyone has lied.
    Anyone that denies that is either ignorant, a fool, or a .
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    True but irrelevant.
    Larry lied to his mommy because he didn't want to clean up his room.
    Trump lied to the world because $wealth wasn't enough. He wanted power too.
    CYDdharta
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -   edited March 2019
    sear said:
    True but irrelevant.
    Larry lied to his mommy because he didn't want to clean up his room.
    Trump lied to the world because $wealth wasn't enough. He wanted power too.

    More like @sear lied to the forum in a desperate attempt to try to save face because he started a thread using an article that proves his premise is invalid.

  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    " @sear lied" Cd

    Not so much.
    The topic title is:

    Trump lies some more, this time about Medicare. Why even listen to him?

    I don't recall endorsing Schumer, or any other Dem. here If the cut is $one, that's a cut.
    If it's a one penny reduction in the rate of growth, that's a cut. But Trump promised he wouldn't.

    "Trump NEVER said anything about Mexico paying for the wall either upfront or outright" Cd
    "I will build a great, great wall on our Southern border. And I will have Mexico pay for that wall, mark my words." Republican primary presidential candidate Donald J. Trump 15/06/16 www.DonaldJTrump.com
    "Trump NEVER said anything about Mexico paying for the wall either upfront or outright" Cd
    "You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -   edited March 2019
    sear said:
    " @sear lied" Cd

    Not so much.
    The topic title is:

    Trump lies some more, this time about Medicare. Why even listen to him?



    I realize that, you don't seem to though.  You haven't posted any Trump lies, let alone lies about about Medicare.

    I don't recall endorsing Schumer, or any other Dem. here If the cut is $one, that's a cut.
    Of course, there are no cuts, the Medicare budget is greatly expanding.

    If it's a one penny reduction in the rate of growth, that's a cut. But Trump promised he wouldn't.

    No, that's not a Medicare cut.  A Medicare cut is a reduction of Medicare's budget.  Under Trump's plan, Medicare's budget expands by over $9 Trillion during the next decade.  What kind of drugs are you on to think that a $9 Trillion budget increase is a budget cut?


    "Trump NEVER said anything about Mexico paying for the wall either upfront or outright" Cd
    "I will build a great, great wall on our Southern border. And I will have Mexico pay for that wall, mark my words." Republican primary presidential candidate Donald J. Trump 15/06/16 www.DonaldJTrump.com

    Spiffy, do you have a point?  Trump has said repeatedly that Mexico will pay for the wall.  What he NEVER said, as is the case of the quote you posted, was that Mexico would pay for the wall either upfront or outright


    "Trump NEVER said anything about Mexico paying for the wall either upfront or outright" Cd
    "You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson

    "You tried your best and you failed miserably." Homer Simpson


  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2925 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    Want some Trump lies on medicare cuts? Here's what I came up with under 5 minutes of research. Official tweets with links...

    As a candidate during the 2015 GOP primary process, it was a theme he returned to. When former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee also stepped up with a promise to protect Social Security and Medicare, Trump claimed total ownership of the pro-entitlement position — vowing specifically to defend Medicaid as well.

    I was the first & only potential GOP candidate to state there will be no cuts to Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid. Huckabee copied me.

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) ;May 7, 2015

    Huckabee is a nice guy but will never be able to bring in the funds so as not to cut Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid. I will.

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) ;May 7, 2015

    Trump portrayed this issue as a key differentiator. Defending Medicaid was a central plank of his pitch for American greatness.

    The Republicans who want to cut SS & Medicaid are wrong. A robust economy will Make America Great Again! https://t.co/u25yI5T7E8

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) ;July 11, 2015

    He even specifically referred to Ohio Gov. John Kasich as being excessively right-wing on the Medicaid issue.

    I am going to save Medicare and Medicaid, Carson wants to abolish, and failing candidate Gov. John Kasich doesn't have a clue - weak!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) ;October 31, 2015

    Now, of course, Trump has lined up behind a Senate health care bill that features draconian cuts to Medicaid:

    • First, it cuts reimbursement rates to Medicaid expansion states, slowly phasing out federal support for the new enrollees.
    • Second, it ends Medicaid’s open-ended commitment to covering the health care needs of eligible patients — sticking states with per capita spending caps.
    • Third, it adjusts those payments over time to ensure that the money available per patient grows more slowly than the cost of providing medical coverage. Each year, a wedge will steadily open wider and wider between the money available for medical coverage and the cost of providing it.

    Can you deny him his own tweets?
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    Want some Trump lies on medicare cuts?


    Yes, where are these cuts to MediCARE (as opposed to MedicAID, which isn't part of this discussion)?
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    " You haven't posted any Trump lies" Cd
             
    Study elementary English syntax. If you complete such study you should learn that your ravings about "either upfront or outright", even if true, are immaterial. He needn't. His sentences were technically unqualified.

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -  
    sear said:
    " You haven't posted any Trump lies" Cd
             
    Study elementary English syntax. If you complete such study you should learn that your ravings about "either upfront or outright", even if true, are immaterial. He needn't. His sentences were technically unqualified.


    What a silly post from someone who was just whining about straying from the thread topic.  If you've forgotten what it is, let me remind you;

    Trump lies some more, this time about Medicare. Why even listen to him?


  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    Please learn protocol.
    Until you do, you'll continue to make yourself appear ignorant, and .
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -   edited March 2019
    sear said:
    Please learn protocol.
    Until you do, you'll continue to make yourself appear ignorant, and .
    So you're worried I'll end up looking like you have during this whole exchange?  Not a chance.  I actually read my sources before I post them.
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    @sear I said this is MY body, and I have the RIGHT to live, and you disputed me. YOU are the .
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    sear said:
    " This is my body," YB

    And this is mine.

    "I have the right to live." YB

    As do I.

    "Healthcare is an absolute human right." YB

     a) -piffle-

     b) A "right" accorded by whom or what? By god? Then what is god doing to provide this healthcare you pretend you're entitled to?

     c) You're conflating life, with healthcare. It is more than merely a logical fallacy.

    "How dare you say I don't have the right to live." YB
    It would never occur to me to make any such assertion.
    I'm simply opposed to the form of slavery your advocate. We are lucky to have the healthcare provider talent we have in the U.S.
    I am opposed on both principle and pragmatism to your call to enslave them, or me.
    Know it or not, believe it or not, like it or not, admit it or not; the result of compelling our healthcare providers to provide their services to you at no $charge to you would soon result in an extreme shortage of healthcare providers.

    And once your precedent was set in law, what other professions would succumb to it? I have a right to strut down the sidewalk without being beaten, robbed, and murdered. By YOUR standard therefore I have an "absolute right" to police protection.
    Police work is dangerous. How many do you think we'd find to fill these jobs, if instead of thanking them for public service, we treated them as slaves? That we have as much right to the fruits of their labors at Southern plantation owners claimed before Sumpter?

    Think it through YB.
    There's no denying there are unresolved healthcare issues in the U.S.
    Your prescribed solution would inevitably lead to the death of the patient, the U.S. citizenry.
    Leave Jesus out of this. We are discussing healthcare.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    "Leave Jesus out of this." YB

    I did a page-wide character string search for "Jesus". The only occurrence is in your post. So you have posted yet another false accusation against me. What else should we expect from a troll like you?

    "We are discussing healthcare." YB

    The topic, my topic is:

    Trump lies some more, this time about Medicare. Why even listen to him?

    Please note the first two words:  "Trump lies"

    And the topic question: "Why even listen to him?"

    And your contribution?
    "YOU are the ." YB
    Ironically, a lie.

  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    I said I have the right to live, and @sear r disputed me.
  • searsear 109 Pts   -  
    YB:
    In this forum you asserted that your are mentally disabled. You have my most sincere sympathy.
    You are correct that I replied to one of your previous comments.
    You are absolutely incorrect that I disputed your right to life. The proof is that all you would have to do, instead of repeating your disparaging lie, is to quote my exact posted words.

     - I know you won't, because
     - I know you can't, because
     - I know I didn't.

     PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE  prove me wrong. Quote my exact posted words denying your right to life. If you try you will fail, learning that you are wrong. And if you are sincere, you may then stop posting this foolish falsehood.
    YeshuaBought
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4676 Pts   -  
    @sear

    I would not say Trump is off the scale. His statements are simply more blunt and direct, but in terms of the sheer amount of unfulfilled promises he is very mainstream.

    Where he differs from the mainstream is his isolationist views. I had hoped that the US had left that mentality behind, back in the 19-th century, yet he is openly embracing it. But then, he is just one person, even if president, and he cannot change the historical course in this regard on his own. This assault on immigration and international trade will pass as soon as the throne in the White House becomes occupied by the next individual.

    All in all though, he is a pretty standard slimy politician who gets around by flipping his stances whenever convenient. Everyone who thought that this "outsider" would somehow fix the issues plaguing politics did not understand the realities of that world. People who get things done do not survive there for long; people who play the crowd well do.
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    @sear We may not agree on healthcare, but I'm grateful for your kindness. Peace and love.
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