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what are you?
in Politics

By billbatardbillbatard 124 Pts
I get confused and curious about who i am talking to.. could you please identify yourselves? i mean not completely just in one aspect not to intrusive since i wont know who you are
  1. Live Poll

    what is your ideology?

    7 votes
    1. conservative
      42.86%
    2. liberal
        0.00%
    3. socialist
      14.29%
    4. far right
        0.00%
    5. far left
        0.00%
    6. libertarian
      14.29%
    7. moderate centrist
      28.57%
    8. anarchist / libertarian left
        0.00%
The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin




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Arguments

  • AlofRIAlofRI 208 Pts
    I would say I'm a moderate centrist, leaning left, with a touch of socialism AND capitalism. I believe we need the good parts of all other economic systems mixed with democracy. No system is perfect, but, without democracy none are acceptable. We need FAIR taxes, we need fair capitalism, we need fair wages, we need to run our government while it WORKS for U.S., the people, not THEM, the OTHER people!
    Plaffelvohfen
  • I don't like labels, more so when trying to define someone holistically with a single word... I try to judge any idea on their own... 

    That said, if I had to, I'd say I'm a progressive pragmatic centrist...
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1653 Pts
    I am a thinker. In this regard, you could say that I have a similar approach to Ayn Rand, where, rather than following some emotional considerations, I follow my own logical approach based on the observations of myself and the world around me.

    My observations led me to conclude that individual freedom is the prime determinant of a given individual's and a given society's success. If we take the requirement for the absolute individual freedom as the axiom (which I nowadays do), then you could put me in the camp of libertarian anarchists - although I personally do not like the word "anarchism". "Anarchism" has the chaotic connotation, as if people do whatever they want regardless of any considerations. In my model, while the legal system itself is inherently chaotic, people act in it in a way that creates a spontaneous order.

    Think of it like the life of a lion in Africa. The lion is not restricted by any legal systems, but the personal needs of the lion necessarily lead to a certain self-built order in its behavior. The lion has to regularly hunt for other animals, lest it dies. It has to hide under palms in the afternoon, lest it overheats. It has to scout for stable water sources in the dry seasons, lest it dehydrates.

    Something like this is what I see humanity being like in the future. We will not have any laws or governments, but we will have certain standards and expectations that, while legally not physically enforced, practically inevitably arise.

    Call me Chaotic Good, if you like the D&D classification. Or Libertarian, if you like the typical political one - although bear in mind that I disagree with most libertarians on quite a few things. I do not think they take their ideas to their logical end. Ayn Rand is the only one that did, from all the people I have heard of.
    Zombieguy1987
  • AlexOlandAlexOland 238 Pts
    @MayCaesar

     Your views remind me of a recent read of mine: "Notes from the Underground". Although not in a scientific way, the narrator (widely referred to as "The Underground Man") touches exactly on this subject. He claims that not every human will always act rationally when expected to because this will destroy their freedom in some sense. These people will do crazy things and end up even hurting themselves just to prove the point that they are not what society wants them to be. 

    "Who wants to want according to a little table?"

     The Underground man basically argues that humans value exerting their own will more than they value reason. His masochistic tendencies illustrate this idea. He chooses to not see doctors for his toothaches because doing so would be submitting to the expectations of society. But I believe everyone has seen an example of this in their own lives. 

     My example for this would be something that I used to do a lot (I still do it from time to time, in less apparent ways). When a relative or a friend of mine assumed something about me, I would go mad and act contrary to their assumptions even though their assumption about me was actually correct. For example, if a friend said that they have bought tickets for a movie we were waiting for without asking me, I would shout at him and not go to that movie even if I had been waiting for it for a very long time. (Well, his assumption that I would want to see the movie is not even baseless here. He knew that I was waiting for the movie.) 

     The problem with The Underground Man's argument, though, is that he might be overestimating the amount of these people. Yes, they exist. But are their numbers high enough to affect a kind of "anarchist"-rationalist-utopia?

     But even if we somehow prove that their numbers are low, how can we be sure that this new environment will not cause an increase in the numbers?

     
    MayCaesarZombieguy1987
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    Independent thinker, being educated by the plethora of Individual internet platform seekers.
  • piloteerpiloteer 344 Pts
    @AlexOland

    Fyodor Dostoevsky is one of my faves.
    AlexOland
  • So I'm dealing with conservatives
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1653 Pts
    @AlexOland

    Such a contrarian attitude can definitely take place, but I would not expect it to affect the society negatively long-term. It is good to have people in any society who defy the norms, push the societal comfort zone and force everyone to constantly reassess their actions and values, and it is a prerequisite for a truly free society. The day when people start regularly surprise each other in the everyday life is the day when we will make a big step towards uncompromised individual freedom.

    Right now, even in the freest societies on Earth, we have a lot of conformity. The movie Dead Poets' Society is a very powerful piece in opposition to this phenomenon. When people are no longer afraid of the societal judgment and start acting in the way that truly represents their nature, then we will start achieving our full potential.

    That said, of course there is an extreme, when someone does not just challenge the societal norms, but makes it a point to do everything backwards. A person will take every societal expectation and violate it, even if violation of it harms him/her directly. But I somehow doubt that such people will be numerous. If the history is any indication, it is the conformism that is truly widespread and hard to combat, while outliers have always been in the minority (pretty much by definition, for that matter).
    Although, once conformism stops being prevalent, it might change. But I would expect the society by that point to be mature enough to not act like this in general.
    AlexOland
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