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why should christians believe a literal noah story?
in Religion

By linatelinate 20 Pts

the writers of the new testament took the story literally, why should we? 

as a christian, i believe in miracles. but it's because of the way miracles are done that i dont believe a literal story of noah. when a miracle occurs, it holds up to scientific scrutiny. the story of noah does not hold up to scrutiny. there's no evidence for it, and in fact it goes against the evidence out there. 

why are there so many lines of humanity that appear to have evolved over hundreds of thousands of year?
how did kangaroos get from australia to the ark?
howd they fit so many animals on the ark?
why isn't there imbreeding given there were only two animals left?
why isn't there flood evidence?
why isn't there mass extinction evidence?
how did the fresh water fish survive living in salt water?
the list of flaws is endless. 
Zombieguy1987AlofRI



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  • linatelinate 20 Pts
    2 peter: "And God did not spare the ancient world—except for Noah and the seven others in his family. Noah warned the world of God’s righteous judgment. So God protected Noah when he destroyed the world of ungodly people with a vast flood. "
    AlofRI
  • DeeDee 251 Pts
    edited April 16
    You say .......when a miracle occurs, it holds up to scientific scrutiny.

    My reply ......For a miracle to take place the known laws of the Universe have to be put on suspension for this miracle to take place , this has not so far happened so how can you state “When a miracle occurs , it holds up to scientific scrutiny?
    Zombieguy1987
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1449 Pts
    Scientifically, two animals cannot form a stable population, no matter how much offspring they produce. I read a summary paper analysing how many animals are needed in the ideal conditions to form a population, and the final estimate was something on the order of "7 to 12".

    In other words, if the story of the Noah Ark had been true, there would be no animals on Earth today. Aside maybe from humans, but historically humans needed meat to survive, so they would probably go extinct as well.
    Zombieguy1987ethang5AlofRI
  • explain a priest blessing a tsunami with the eucharist and the tsunami just stopping. Just explain the tsunami stopping with science. it can't be explained.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1449 Pts
    @kevin_burke

    Indeed, it cannot be explained, because such an event has never taken place in this Universe.
    Zombieguy1987AlofRI
  • @MayCaesar
    yes it has people pass it off as tall tales ill find it if you like
    Zombieguy1987AlofRI
  • Zombieguy1987AlofRI
  • Zombieguy1987AlofRI
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1449 Pts
    @kevin_burke

    Of course it has. Folklore is full of wild storytelling, and for a good reason. That reason is not the stories having anything to do with reality, however.
    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987AlofRI
  • Fine if you don't believe that then explain how the body of Josephine Bakhita isn't decaying. The fact that this is true is undeniable.
  • What evidence would we find if there was a worldwide flood? we would find Billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water, all over the earth. what do we find? we find just that. That is evidence of a worldwide flood.
    kevin_burkeZombieguy1987AlofRI
  • they should not its  a fairy tale oin many reglions and has been debunked
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • @kevin_burke you cant be serious? how much crap fills your brain?
    AlofRI
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • DeeDee 251 Pts
    @kevin_burke

    I read the piece while trying not to laugh I failed miserably as I burst out laughing at the piece of utter nonsense , you do know this is a religious site right?
  • linatelinate 20 Pts
    @calebsica

    there is no evidence of a mass extinction. with all the past mass extinctions there is evidence, but not with the supposed flood. you should check your references. also, you didn't answer all the other questions posed in the opening post. a world wide flood for noah is a myth. 
    AlofRI
  • @linate ;
    Science doesn't have all the answers they are still finding new things day by day. If you are truly a christian take it on faith. Because you aren't going to find the answers on a debate site.
  • @Dee ;
    Just because its a religious site doesn't mean it's wrong. Atheist and non religious aren't the only reputable sources. 
  • @billbatard ;
    If you wish to debate then debate don't throw around immature responses. It makes you sound like an arrogant child.   
  • linatelinate 20 Pts
    @kevin_burke

    chrisitans should be concerned with truth above all else. not with trying to defend the doctrines of man, that have developed over the centuries.

    do you disagree with the premise that authentic miracles should have evidence that they occurred?
  • @linate
    Yes, I agree that we should be concerned about truth above all else. But, science isn't God it is merely us trying to explain gods creation. And yes I believe that miracles should be based on evidence (like the miracle of St. Bakhita who has been dead for almost 70 years yet her body is still in perfect condition)  and you don't have to believe every miracle. But, if you are truly a christian then you believe that the bible is the word of christ. And in the bible different language is used when historical events are being told and when parables are being told. And the story of Noah is told in the language of a historical event. And since I believe that the bible is the true word of God I believe in the Miracle of Noah is fact.   
    linate
  • @Zombieguy1987
    Thanks for the fallacy I earned a new badge because of it
    Zombieguy1987
  • linate said:
    @calebsica

    there is no evidence of a mass extinction. with all the past mass extinctions there is evidence, but not with the supposed flood. you should check your references. also, you didn't answer all the other questions posed in the opening post. a world wide flood for noah is a myth. 
    There would not have been a mass extinction because Noah took animals on the ark but fossils have to be formed quickly, with the billions of fossils we have found it makes sense that there would be a worldwide flood.
    linate
  • SandSand 31 Pts
    There is evidence of a mass extinction in the Bible. There are documented eyewitnesses of the event. Until you can disprove those eyewitnesses accounts, it is the most credible information we have of those events.
    linate
  • TKDBTKDB 84 Pts

    why should christians believe a literal noah story?


    Why should the anti religious worry their minds over Christians, who are living their lives as it suits them, instead of worrying over what questions, that some of the anti religious may come up with?
  • TKDB said:

    why should christians believe a literal noah story?


    Why should the anti religious worry their minds over Christians, who are living their lives as it suits them, instead of worrying over what questions, that some of the anti religious may come up with?

    Because, when people believe nonsense, then they'll say they're smart, which i'll convince others what is true and false. It's this line of reasoning which gave the Anti-Vaxx movment steam. We have the right to criticize other peoples opinions. 

    https://www.google.com/search?q=victims+of+religion&safe=active&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=x&ved=0ahukewihu9jugorfahwkmeakhbtib00q_auidigb&biw=1920&bih=963&safe=active

    For the first time since 2009, the Carolina Hurricanes will be playing for the Stanley Cup! 

    Repealing the Second Amendment is the first step to Totalitarianism, and it needs to be prevented to protect our freedom 

    http://www.atheistrepublic.com/
  • Praise the Lord for you! I am a Christian too, and I take that story literally, because I am in awe of Jesus, Who created everything. WOW, what an amazing God.
    Zombieguy1987AlofRI
  • DeeDee 251 Pts
    edited April 18
    @kevin_burke

    You say .....just because its a religious site doesn't mean it's wrong. Atheist and non religious aren't the only reputable sources. 

    My reply .....It does , because all such sitess never present any credible evidence for their various  claims.

    Accepted science sites are indeed mostly  reputable and if still in doubt one may question the validity of certain claims I’ve done so in the past to my satisfaction you can do so also , this is not the case with your sources it’s merely claims made with zero bankable evidence.

    Atheists sites address mostly one topic and one topic only Atheism and I wouldn’t use them anyway to verify claims such as yours

    Its also striking that you assume a god would stop a tsunami to save no doubt his devout followers yet the same god would watch and do nothing as men ,women and children were gassed in Austwitch , why’s that do you think?
  • SandSand 31 Pts

    Because according to the Bible, there was a two part challenge.

    Sovereignty and Integrity

    The right to rule (Sovereignty)

    Why we serve (Integrity)

     

    The challenge was who has the right to rule over man?

    God or Man

    And what is the motive behind the choice?

    Greed or Love

     

    God has allowed man to rule over man to show man needs higher guidance. That is why God does not interfere with political decisions of man.

    Once man has chosen love as the answer to all of his problems, he will ultimately determine he needs higher guidance.

    Then God will step back in as ultimate ruler, allowing man to choose his rulership.

    Not because of force, greed, or compulsion, but because of love.

     

    What we have seen in the world is bad weather, issues, and war.

    These things are caused by man's greed.

    Scientist's know that pollution has adverse effects on the weather, yet because of greed we keep destroying the environment.

    Everyone knows that War is a device used to gain financial and political advantages, yet everyone is defending not attacking.

    The majority of political decisions by man is motivated by greed not love.

    With the strongest effort to remove God from every equation in life.

     

    Nevertheless, it will be the laws of love that will fix every one of these problems we have.

    (I am not talking about the hypocritical religious ways of man)

    A person who truly applies love would never go to war.

     

    A person who lives by love looks for the interests of others ahead of his own.




  • TKDBTKDB 84 Pts
    @Zombieguy1987

    "Because, when people believe nonsense, then they'll say they're smart, which i'll convince others what is true and false.

    Who are you trying to convince, from the artificial existence of the internet? 

    It's this line of reasoning which gave the Anti-Vaxx movment steam. We have the right to criticize other peoples opinions."

    You're equating the anti vaxx movement, to religion?

    The words of an internet disciple, "We, and Us."

    Basically, you, and the others like you, you all are, your own collective movement?

    Zombieguy1987
  • ethang5ethang5 89 Pts
    @linate

    As a public service to the board, linate is not really a Christian, he's one of those wolves in sheep's clothing Jesus warned us about.

    >as a christian, i believe in miracles. but it's because of the way miracles are done that i dont believe a literal story of noah. when a miracle occurs, it holds up to scientific scrutiny. the story of noah does not hold up to scrutiny. there's no evidence for it, and in fact it goes against the evidence out there.

    Simply untrue.

    >why are there so many lines of humanity that appear to have evolved over hundreds of thousands of year?

    Why should there not be?

    >how did kangaroos get from australia to the ark?

    How did any animal get to the ark? First you assume kangaroos were on the Ark. Why? Then you assume, kangaroos were only in Australia at that time. Why? Then you assume there was no land  crossing from Australia to Asia at that time. Why? You make all these silly unwarranted assumptions and then wonder why YOUR story doesn't make sense.

    >howd they fit so many animals on the ark?

    The calculations have been done. The measurements were given in Genesis. The arc was large enough to house all the animals on it.

    >why isn't there imbreeding given there were only two animals left?

    How many animals do you think there were when animals first evolved? Animals were on the ark only a little more than 40 days.

    >why isn't there flood evidence?

    There is plenty. But because the bible says much of the water from the flood did not fall from sky, but rose up from underground, the "evidence" you are expecting is not reasonable. Water did not run down to low lying areas, but rose up to high lying areas, thus, different erosion patterns.

    >why isn't there mass extinction evidence?

    There is plenty of evidence of mass extinction. In fact, more animal species are extinct than all animal species alive today.

    >how did the fresh water fish survive living in salt water?

    1. Much of the water of the flood was fresh water.
    2. Many species can tolerate slightly salty water for short periods.
    3. On what is your assumption built that fresh water fish died?

    >the list of flaws is endless.

    Your list of assumptions based on ignorance is endless. So what?

    Educate yourself. Parroting atheist websites doesn't cut it.
    Zombieguy1987linate
  • linatelinate 20 Pts

    here is a link that lists a bunch of the scientific impossibilities of the ark story
    https://ncse.com/cej/4/1/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark?fbclid=IwAR117leqaF1SLQDumzcMejzKuwVEBnFTP6qUVygNNOCOjm98jk0BDvDHPHU

    i like the sentences it's got in the conclusion... "It is also quite obvious that the creationists are not engaged in any meaningful search for the truth concerning origins. They are committed in advance to a particular creed, and the facts exist only to be explained away." 

    for a new christian or a child, child like faith can be commendable. but for adults and those mature in the faith, it becomes contempt-able to take the stories of noah seriously. these folks are lovers of man's tales and religion, not truth.  "in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’"
  • SandSand 31 Pts

    That website list is just a list of improbabilities and is full of assumptions.

    As I read it, that person builds on the assumptions they already made by adding more facts and creating more hurdles.

     

    One of the assumptions is that the animals needed cages, when the Bible says the animals got fear in their hearts after the flood.

    Another assumption was there was two of each kind, when the Bible clearly says seven of the clean animals and two of the unclean animals.

    Another assumption is that he needed training and schooling to know how to build a new structure. (I guess no one would build anything without the proper degree)

    There is never a first of anything? Do you have to have schooling on everything to do anything?

     

    Skeptics are always asking for more facts, details, proof. You can't satisfy them. Hover dam is very improbable. The Egyptian pyramids are very improbable. Even when they have endless amount of facts and details they still question it. There are skeptics questioning the landing on the moon. There are skeptics who want proof the earth is a sphere.

     

    Was all the years, measurements, locations, and lineage all made up in this fictious story. Could it really be that no one was telling the truth. That everyone was in on this hoax. It was only by coincidence that it coincided with history.

     

    These skeptics have no documentation of anything else happening during that time period. But they are 100% sure that these events did not occur. They need all the facts and details to determine something actually happened. Then they have the nerve to call this nothing that happened "truth". 


  • TKDBTKDB 84 Pts
    Choosing to be religious in voluntary.

    Just as not being religious is voluntary.

    And then things like this get said.

    Zombieguy1987


    "Because, when people believe nonsense, then they'll say they're smart, which i'll convince others what is true and false."

    Who are you trying to convince, from the artificial existence of the internet? 

    "It's this line of reasoning which gave the Anti-Vaxx movment steam. We have the right to criticize other peoples opinions."

    You're equating the anti vaxx movement, to religion?

    The words of an internet disciple, "We, and Us."

    Basically, you, and the others like you, you all are, your own collective movement? 
    Zombieguy1987
  • AlofRIAlofRI 153 Pts
    If every drop of water in the air went to ground there would not be enough to cover the whole Earth. Then again, if it DID, no animals OR people could survive in air with NO humidity! There could be no Bison, Moose, Ocelot, Cougar, Armadillo, Kodiak Bear, Kangaroo, Koala, etc.,etc. on the Ark. It would have taken an ark the size of our latest aircraft carrier to carry the animals, 40 days of food (Who knew it would only be 40 days??), and a crew of hundreds just to shovel the dung from so many animals! What would the Lions and Tigers eat?? They're meat eaters! No refrigeration …. did Noah bring hundreds of lbs. of dead meat on board, or just a few extra antelope?? Tons of grain? How 'bout the Panda's? How about an Olympic swimming pool of water for them to drink?? There is nothing but fallacy in this "story". Total mythology.

    Then there's the Whale that swallowed the man. Whales can't swallow a man, that's why they live on plankton!

    WOW! A fire breathing dragon just flew by my house! …. Please ...
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