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It’s a mental health problem, not a gun issue.
in United States

By VVSvicVVSvic 17 Pts

I’m 17 years old, I turn 18 next year, the same year in which I plan to rent and move into an apartment. Last year, I remember the MSD shooting, and I lived 8 minutes from Parkland. I couldn’t imagine it happening so close to home, initially I thought only 2 died due to the first reports, but upon hearing the official number of dead, I was devastated. How could someone do this? With the immense anger that surged days after, the students of Parkland demanded for better gun laws. Now because of them, and unfortunately Rick Scott still being governor, the age to purchase firearms had been raised to 21, the same age for owning handguns. But when I analyzed the information I obtained, the shooting could have been prevented. Cruz is 19, not 18. What about the other 18 year old gun owners in Florida? How come they aren’t shooting up schools? It’s obvious, they aren’t ill like Cruz was. So many reports on him were made to the police and even one report to the FBI, yet, they did NOT take the reports into consideration. Had they did, it could have ended up on his health record, and most likely prevented him from obtaining a AR-15. AR-15s are not assault rifles, because if they were, people wouldn’t be allowed to have them. And I know people will say “oh these kids shouldn’t be having these killing machines” well those so called “kids” are old enough to go to war and kill anyways. Even with the age raised, a school shooting could still be carried out. Remember Columbine? Yeah, some careless fools bought them guns so they could go kill people. The same could be done today, because there is a small number of people who could care less if they buy minors firearms. I have a girlfriend now, and when we move into our apartment, I want to have an effective mean of protecting us. So for those anti-gun or gun control measure advocates, how am I supposed to protect myself when someone breaks into our apartment, and the police are not fast enough to respond? When will we see that it is a mental health issue and not a gun problem? I’d like people from many sides to debate this, gun owners, conservatives, and left leaning people, including fellow students, what is your opinion?

AlofRIGeorge_HorseRyanHoughZombieguy1987
"Jimmy baby" -Chief Keef







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  • AlofRIAlofRI 176 Pts
    The "mental health problem" is what the NRA top boys would want U.S. to believe. Since we have a ridiculously higher rate of gun deaths to any other non-war country, that would mean we must have a ridiculously high rate of "mentally unhealthy" people in the U.S.. 
    While that may be true, in some ways, it's not true factually. The problem is we allow ANYONE to get hold of a gun without much problem at all. A known terrorist can walk in and purchase an AR, or an 9mm with an extended magazine AND silencer/suppressor with no problem. THAT is the "mental problem". Even a large MAJORITY of NRA members don't want that. THEY want some regulation , they want background checks at LEAST. Background checks and a reasonable waiting period to vet a buyer may delay the delivery of ones "toys", but, we are supposed to be grown-ups before we get a gun like that in our hands. Yeah, when I was a kid my 12 year old buddies had 22's. A few years later I was teaching NRA sanctioned "Hunter Safety" classes, a proud member of a proud organization. Today, that organization has been turned into a political blood n' money machine, a disgrace. I hope Mr. Lapierre and his money sucking cronies are replaced, and they can get back to what they were. We would have to be a country of asylum ready patients to legitimize that manufactured "mental health" theory.
    CYDdhartaVVSvicGeorge_HorseApplesauceZombieguy1987
  • linatelinate 33 Pts
    if this were a mental health problem, we would have more people with mental health problems than the rest of the world, but that's not the case. 

    -this really isn't just a mental health problem. we don't have more people with mental health problems than other countries.... just more people with guns.  the study controls for mental health factors v other factors. 
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur
    CYDdhartaVVSvicGeorge_HorseAlofRIZombieguy1987
  • John_C_87John_C_87 106 Pts
    A you saying in owning a gun the person does not hold the burden of lethal force equal with the soldier they ask to represent them in battles? If they have the tool, a gun, and do not train just simply require it from others on there behalf, if they, their family, or the person who stands next to them is shot, the burden of return fire to assert a common defense to the general welfare is less than a soldier burden? 


    "I have a greater worries it is a battle strategy, far more then than is a mental illness."
    VVSvic
  • Smart and young! I strongly agree! I’m a gun owner myself and I opposed the governor raising the age. You make excellent points in your argument, after hearing about the fortunate election of DeSantis becoming your new governor, hopefully before you turn 18, that he reverts the law back to what it was before! I too saw that the gun wasn’t the problem, it was Cruz. He was not mentally fit for possessing ANY firearm, and unfortunately, they did not stop him in time for his preparation for the massacre. 
    VVSvic
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "Americanism not Globalism, will be our credo." ~Donald Trump

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill
  • piloteerpiloteer 265 Pts
    @linate

    From the inception of the United States, up until the 1960s, random people weren't going around shooting civilians at will, yet it was legal to own guns in that time frame. Your argument only works if the US has had mass shootings since owning guns was legal. Mass shootings are a new phenomenon. Why weren't mass shootings common before the 1960s? 
    VVSvicZombieguy1987
  • AlofRIAlofRI 176 Pts
    @piloteer:  I was a member of the NRA in the 60's. (A PROUD member). Their mantra was gun safety, especially with the young. I TAUGHT gun safety, NRA sanctioned. That was before the hate that emanated from the "Contract With America", started by Newt Gingrich and Armey! That was before the NRA started their false narrative that "They're going to take your guns!", "The Government is coming after you in black helicopters with a secret army!" "You'll only take my guns from my COLD, DEAD HANDS!" THAT is why it is different today. That and the divisive anti-government crap that developed FROM all that garbage. That is STILL crap and garbage today, but, about 1/3 of the people believe it. As Gehring said, "Tell a lie often enough and loud enough, it becomes truth." 
    CYDdhartaVVSvicGeorge_HorseZombieguy1987
  • TKDBTKDB 135 Pts
    There are roughly 900,000 Police Officers in the U.S.

    There are 393 million guns, in a country, that roughly has 325 million citizens.
    Now subtract the amount of illegal guns, that have been sold in the United States by the illegal gun dealer, to the thousands of criminals, and offenders in the U.S., who aren't supposed to be in possession of any firearms, and you have a problem, that the ATF, DEA, and the local law enforcement, along with the rest of the public, gets to live with, deal with, and put up with because of  how the Second Amendment gets abused hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, and year after year, by some of the lawful gun owners, and the illegal gun owners, who use their gun, or guns, to commit their various crimes with.

    The public in general is getting bookended, between the Second Amendment, and how, some abuse that Amendment, and the Bill of Rights, and how, some have abused the Bill of Rights as well, because of the gun violence brutalities, that law enforcement, and the rest of the public gets to deal with?

    That maybe, doesn't own a gun?

    And that portion of the public, is apparently stigmatizing itself, because of their non ownership of a gun? Depending on what type of gun owner your addressing?
    A typical gun owner, or a probable pro gun owning extremists?

    The problem is with the 393 million guns, along with the millions of illegal guns, that have been extracted (Via their serial numbers, being erased from the very surface of each illegal gun? That has been sold to whomever, and is now roaming the streets of the country, by being in possession of a criminal, or and offender?

    The problem, as well is with the Second Amendment itself, its very own language is outdated, via 18th century, when it could be amended to the modern day, to justly reflect the 21st century, and how some humans, are inhumanely treating other's, via the various gun violence brutality crimes?

    The problem, as well, is how the individual lawful gun owner, and the criminal, and the offender, who abuse both the Second Amendment, and the Bill of Rights, when those individuals, unlawfully use a gun to kill innocent people.

    The Second Amendment, should be amended with some modern language, that reflects on Accountability, and Responsibility, by each, and every gun owner.
    VVSvicGeorge_HorseZombieguy1987
  • RyanHoughRyanHough 66 Pts
    I completely agree that the problem with school and public shootings is indeed a mental health issue. There is also another factor that relates to this. The News. The news puts too much attention to the Shootings and Suicides making it so people looking for attention may try to grab at attention using the news and doing similar things they see the news making a big deal about. Our society is failing because we as the new generation were not equipped to handle things going wrong in life in a proper manner. That is my opinion but I am open to anyone who has a better view than me to please voice what you think is the real problem.
    VVSvicGeorge_HorseZombieguy1987
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 114 Pts
    Focusing mainly on mass shooting cases then yes, there is no denying that those individuals who shot up schools had something seriously wrong with them mentally. There were also a lot of red flags in one or more cases that people failed to seriously consider.

    That being said, mass shootings are statistically rare and are not representative of all gun-related violence. Also statistically, most people that suffer mental illness are not violent and not likely to be either. Furthermore, the idea that the reason for gun-related violence overall is because of the number of guns is not a valid point either (in my opinion). Overall gun violence rests not on any single individual ascription but a plethora of varying factors that warrant consideration.

    Further, I do agree as well that you stand more of a chance at defending yourself against a person with a gun if you have ready access to a gun yourself. On top of that, you stand an even better chance of defending yourself with a gun that you know how to use safely, and if you've regularly practiced shooting.

    We need to find ways in which to minimize guns getting into the hands of bad and irresponsible people both legally and illegally, while at the same not making things so difficult that even Law abiding citizens struggle to acquire a gun that they can have ready access to so they can defend themselves as a last resort. In addition to this, we as citizens can play our part in looking out for potential red flags and thus take responsible and appropriate action.





    VVSvicGeorge_Horse
  • TKDBTKDB 135 Pts
    edited May 14
    @ZeusAres42

    How about seeing, if any of the parents or families, who have lost loved ones, to the mass shooters gun violence, maybe agrees with your opinion?

    Please, call CNN, Fox News, or ABC news, get in front of any of the news cameras

    And maybe state your opinion to the Public?

    "That being said, mass shootings are statistically rare and are not representative of all gun-related violence. Also statistically, most people that suffer mental illness are not violent and not likely to be either. Furthermore, the idea that the reason for gun-related violence overall is because of the number of guns is not a valid point either (in my opinion). Overall gun violence rests not on any single individual ascription but a plethora of varying factors that warrant consideration."

    Here's the contact info for CNN:
     One CNN Center
    Atlanta, GA 30303
    Phone: (404) 878-2276
    Fax: (404) 827-1995
    VVSvicGeorge_HorseZeusAres42
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 114 Pts
    edited May 14

    Why, because if they disagree with an opinion then it proves my opinion is invalid?
    VVSvicGeorge_Horse
  • TKDBTKDB 135 Pts
    edited May 14
    @ZeusAres42

    When are you going to reach out to any of those nationwide news media outlets, so that you can Educate the public with your opinion? 

    "Why, because if they disagree with an opinion then it proves my opinion is invalid?"

    How do you know if they, or if, some, of the rest of the non internet public, will disagree with your opinion? 

    Because your opinion, is the opinion that is on the table, and not just "an opinion," right? 

    "That being said, mass shootings are statistically rare and are not representative of all gun-related violence. Also statistically, most people that suffer mental illness are not violent and not likely to be either. Furthermore, the idea that the reason for gun-related violence overall is because of the number of guns is not a valid point either (in my opinion). Overall gun violence rests not on any single individual ascription but a plethora of. varying factors that warrant consideration."


    ZeusAres42
  • TKDBTKDB 135 Pts

    It’s a mental health problem, not a gun issue.


    It's both.

    Along with it being an outdated, Second Amendment issue.

    And a violation of the Bill of Rights issue.

    And gun violence in general, could maybe, be justifiably viewed as an anti public issue, couldn't it? 

    And the gun violence in general, itself, could be viewed, as discrimination towards it own victims, couldn't it? 

    Along, with the gun violence perpetrators, showing discrimination against, the very law itself, in making murder illegal right? 
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 114 Pts
    edited May 15


  • TKDBTKDB 135 Pts
    edited May 14
    @ZeusAres42

    You're labeling your opinion as Satire?

    "That being said, mass shootings are statistically rare and are not representative of all gun-related violence. Also statistically, most people that suffer mental illness are not violent and not likely to be. either. Furthermore, the idea that the reason for gun-related violence overall is because of the number of guns is not a valid point either (in my opinion). Overall gun violence rests not on any single individual ascription but a plethora of. varying factors that warrant consideration."

    "I think I might do that this week. I just need to get one of my opinions on an internet forum to all of the news  just to show how much I love this opinion and how every news outlet should cherish it! Satire!"

    ZeusAres42
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 114 Pts
    edited May 15



  • The issue is the same people who want to maintain access to guns also doesn't want any sort of public funding going towards mental healthcare. Who cares what the issue is if you won't either crack way down on guns or publicly fund healthcare. If you like guns that's fine as long as you are ok with the reality that there will be significant deaths from gun violence that are not preventable. This isn't an argument against guns as we have plenty of things in society that come with negative consequences that we judge to be too crucial to get rid of.
  • TKDBTKDB 135 Pts
    edited May 15
    @WordsMatter

    The U.S. needs to address mental health across the board.

    An individual can go to a hospital today, and while being triaged, one of the likely questions could be, (Sir, or Ma'am) do you have any thoughts of hurting yourself, or others?

    The country needs to address the outdated language, that the Second Amendment, has written, within the context of how it's currently written, and updated, or amended to reflect how the Second Amendment, has been getting abused by some of the lawful gun owners, and the illegal gun owners?

    Along with addressing an excessive gun problem, 393 million guns, in a country where there are 325 million citizens, of which 900,000 are Police Officers?

    And a plethora of illegal guns, that are lacking their individual serial numbers, and are in the hands of the illegal gun dealer, along with the criminals, and the offenders, who are walking the very same streets of the United States, as we speak.

    The country as well needs to address, an ever evolving gun violence brutality situation, that has a history as entailed, as some of the criminals, and offenders have history wise, based on their individual gun violence crimes? 

    The public as a whole, deserves better, than how its been getting treated by some, for years now.
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 234 Pts
    @VVSvic

    ask yourself this, would anyone in their right mind murder another person?  I would say no.  Those who do have some level of mental health issue, a vast majority anyway.  This would explain why it's such a rare occurrence.

    Changing the age makes no sense due to the obvious inconsistency it creates.  Joining the military, entering a police academy etc there are many places an 18 year old could go and be handed a full auto rifle, machine gun, actual assault rifle.  It's a clear constitutional violation.

    I don't know what the law is, does it just state you can't purchase until 21?  does that include possess?  Reason I ask is I have some guns I rarely use and will be giving them to my sons.
    VVSvic
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • VVSvicVVSvic 17 Pts
    "Jimmy baby" -Chief Keef




  • ApplesauceApplesauce 234 Pts
    @Applesauce

    from what I read it doesn't appear to prevent you from possessing a fire arm.  Also I found this interesting "The sale or transfer of a firearm to a person younger than 21 years of age may not be made or facilitated by a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer."  doesn't say anything about buying from a private individual, might be worth exploring.  As far as I can tell someone could loan or gift you a gun because I don't see where that law prevents that and you maybe able to purchase one from a private individual.  If you find out details about those possibilities lmk I'm very interested in the topic.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • @AlofRI no
    that is not how that works
    a known terrorist would appear on the background check
    I agree with you mostly though
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 114 Pts

    Also here, why do you think it is that you feel that all mentally unhealthy people are evil psychopaths that go around shooting people?

    Also, what is the reason for you thinking it's a good idea me going to news outlets and telling them that I disagree with your suggestions that all mentally unhealthy individuals are evil psychopaths that go around killing people with guns?

    Why do you also think that good responsible and law abiding citizens that have guns should suffer a mandatory death sentence?

    Could it be that given the education and intelligence of most Journalists that they too would see your above ideas as barbaric and that would seem to take us back to the dark ages? 
    Applesauce
  • TKDBTKDB 135 Pts
    edited May 16
    @ZeusAres42

    Is that what my words said?

    "Also here,"
    "why do you think it is that you feel that all mentally unhealthy people are evil psychopaths that go around shooting people?"

    Did I say the above verbatim, or are you trying to paraphrase me? 

    "Also, what is the reason for you thinking it's a good idea me going to news outlets and telling them that I disagree with your suggestions that all mentally unhealthy individuals are evil psychopaths that go around killing people with guns?"

    What are you worried over, by expressing your talking points to the nationwide media?

    Would the counter questions, from some of the reporters, maybe make you feel a tad awkward? 

    "Why do you also think that good responsible and law abiding citizens that have guns should suffer a mandatory death sentence?"

    Haven't some, of those same, good responsible and law abiding citizens that have guns, who have gone about killing innocent people, via their mass shootings gun violence, they're criminals now aren't they?

    And again, they abused the Second Amendment, and the rights of other's by murdering their victims right?

    So because of those abuses, why shouldn't they suffer a mandatory death sentence?

    Isn't that what in a sense appened to some of their victims, they gave their victims, a criminal death sentence, didn't they? 

    Why don't you present your below question, to the nationwide news media outlets, and ask them to conduct, a nationwide poll, and see what the public, in general says? 

    "Could it be that given the education and intelligence of most Journalists that they too would see your above ideas as barbaric and that would seem to take us back to the dark ages?"

    VVSvic
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 114 Pts

    Is that what my words said?

    "Also here,"
    "why do you think it is that you feel that all mentally unhealthy people are evil psychopaths that go around shooting people?"

    Did I say the above verbatim, or are you trying to paraphrase me?

    Because that is the only logical inference based on your previous posts and also given the fact that you do disagree with my position right? what else could you be inferring then from your own individual point of view? You do disagree with me when I said the following right?

    Focusing mainly on mass shooting cases then yes (Mainly what this debate is about), there is no denying that those individuals who shot up schools had something seriously wrong with them mentally. (observational claim backed by factual evidence)

    There were also a lot of red flags in one or more cases that people failed to seriously consider. (observational claim backed by factual evidence)

    That being said, mass shootings are statistically rare and are not representative of all gun-related violence. (observational claim backed by factual evidence) Also statistically, most people that suffer mental illness are not violent and not likely to be either. (observational claim backed by factual evidence)

    Furthermore, the idea that the reason for gun-related violence overall is because of the number of guns is not a valid (good) point either (in my opinion).

    Overall gun violence rests not on any single individual ascription but a plethora of varying factors that warrant consideration.(observational claim backed by a plethora of factual evidence)

    Further, I do agree as well that you stand more of a chance at defending yourself against a person with a gun if you have ready access to a gun yourself. (observational claim backed by basic physics) On top of that, you stand an even better chance of defending yourself with a gun that you know how to use safely, and if you've regularly practiced shooting. (claim that rests on basic common sense)

    We need to find ways in which to minimize guns getting into the hands of bad and irresponsible people both legally and illegally, while at the same not making things so difficult that even Law abiding citizens struggle to acquire a gun that they can have ready access to so they can defend themselves as a last resort. In addition to this, we as citizens can play our part in looking out for potential red flags and thus take responsible and appropriate action. (observational claim)

    "Also, what is the reason for you thinking it's a good idea me going to news outlets and telling them that I disagree with your suggestions that all mentally unhealthy individuals are evil psychopaths that go around killing people with guns?"

    What are you worried over, by expressing your talking points to the nationwide media?
    What makes you think I am so worried about the news media? Could it be that I am more curious as to why you're so fixated on me going to the media and telling them that I disagree with your medieval philosophies? And why are you avoiding the question? Do you have any ideas as to why you could be doing that?

    "Why do you also think that good responsible and law abiding citizens that have guns should suffer a mandatory death sentence?"

    Haven't some, of those same, good responsible and law abiding citizens that have guns, who have gone about killing innocent people, via their mass shootings gun violence, they're criminals now aren't they?
    How exactly can a good, kind, loving caring individual that is a responsible gun owner be the same thing as an evil criminal that goes around shooting up schools? Can you elaborate?










  • TKDBTKDB 135 Pts
    @ZeusAres42

    Because you have the heart to express your individual opinion via the internet, right?

    But apparently, you lack the heart, to express your opinion, before any of the Nationwide news media outlet camera's? 

    That's the real world difference, in how you express your opinion?

    So why shouldn't the victims who have survived their encounters with their victimizers, and those families who lost family members, be able to see your opinion, via the news media, instead of educating themselves via your online opinions?

    Again, that's the difference, in how you're expressing yourself, isn't it?

    Your below rhetoric is a mindgame.

    "What makes you think I am so worried about the news media? Could it be that I am more curious as to why you're so fixated on me going to the media and telling them that I disagree with your medieval philosophies? And why are you avoiding the question? Do you have any ideas as to why you could be doing that?

    I can read how anxious you are, by the very choices, of your own words. 

    Why dont you challenge the public, with the below answer to the questions, that I posed to you?

    (I provided you with the information, in how to get in touch with CNN, ABC, and Fox news, why not reach out to them, and go nationwide with your opinion?)

    You can share my questions, and then share your response at the same time, couldn't you?
    "Why do you also think that good responsible and law abiding citizens that have guns should suffer a mandatory death sentence?"

    Haven't some, of those same, good responsible and law abiding citizens that have guns, who have gone about killing innocent people, via their mass shootings gun violence, they're criminals now aren't they?
    "How exactly can a good, kind, loving caring individual that is a responsible gun owner be the same thing as an evil criminal that goes around shooting up schools? Can you elaborate?"

    Why, don't you publicly elaborate?  

    ZeusAres42
  • VVSvicVVSvic 17 Pts
    "Jimmy baby" -Chief Keef




  • ApplesauceApplesauce 234 Pts
    @VVSvic

    doesn't sound clear after reading that
    "This section does not make it illegal for a person under 21 to possess a firearm, but they cannot purchase one."
    but then
    "On the other hand, Florida Statute §790.17(2)(a) was not amended by SB 7026.  It still reads, “a person may not knowingly or willfully sell or transfer a firearm to a minor under 18 years of age, except that a person may transfer ownership of a firearm to a minor with permission of the parent or guardian.” Because this section was not amended and §790.065 deals with licensed manufacturers, importers, or dealers, it is unlikely the new law was intended to be a blanket prohibition against all sales of firearms to those under 21 and was likely intended to apply to only licensed manufacturers, dealers, and importers.  Until there is clarification, we strongly caution that the actual wording of the 790.065(13), “A person younger than 21 years of age may not purchase a firearm” be heeded.  We are reaching out to the office of the Attorney General for guidance and will update this blog should guidance be provided."  Posted on March 14, 2018

    no update?

    so you can possess one and someone can give/gift you one I believe, I didn't read anywhere that it said that couldn't be done.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • DeeDee 309 Pts
    Where I’m from citizens mostly do not have the right to carry a gun , our police force are unarmed yet criminals have guns illegally and so what? Criminals over here shoot criminals and society ticks away nicely my country rated 12 most peaceful in the world out of 162 in the world the U S is in 94th spot . You guys have a huge problem with guns but most fail to even acknowledge that , what do you think would happen in my country if guns were made legal would the death and accident rates go up? 

    How is the right to own a gun progressive for society? Recently I listened to a debate on teachers getting lessons in defensive gun measures while in school to protect children and armed security being possibly needed in some schools this is outrageous yet while debating gun supporters they come out with the same tired as in “guns don’t kill people , people kill people “ etc, etc , Imagine a parent or school teacher worrying about getting shot at school only in the U S is this seen as likely 
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 234 Pts
    @Dee

    unfortunately there's no way to explain or for you to understand the point of view from someone who lives in a free country with a unique Constitution and bill of rights.
    those in a gilded cage are safe and peaceful as well.  Guns or lack of guns doesn't make a society peaceful.  Currently Venezuela is a great example of that don't you think?  North Korea is very peaceful within it's borders, want to live there?
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • TKDBTKDB 135 Pts
    @ZeusAres42

    "The Supreme Court has ruled that the death penalty does not violate the Eighth Amendment's ban on cruel and unusual punishment, but the Eighth Amendment does shape certain procedural aspects regarding when a jury may use the death penalty and how it must be carried out."
  • DeeDee 309 Pts
    @Applesauce


    You say .....unfortunately there's no way to explain or for you to understand the point of view from someone who lives in a free country with a unique Constitution and bill of rights.

    My reply .....I’ve lived in and worked in the U S , your remark is ridiculous.

    Tell me do anti gun Americans living in a free country not understand the explanations you have not offered 

    What do you mean a free country exactly?

    Every countries constitution is unique thankfully ours is not responsible for a steady 33,000 gun deaths a year and 75,000 gun accidents 


    You say.....those in a gilded cage are safe and peaceful as well.  

    My reply ...But I don’t live in a restrictive society , if you call the slaughter of 33,000 and 75,000 accidental shootings a “freedom” you can stuff it 

    You say .....Guns or lack of guns doesn't make a society peaceful.  Currently Venezuela is a great example of that don't you think?  North Korea is very peaceful within it's borders, want to live there?


    My reply .....I don’t live in those countries, U S is ranked a pathetic 94th most peaceful country in the world , make you proud does it?

  • ApplesauceApplesauce 234 Pts
    edited May 17
    @Dee

    so why do you care so much LOL  I don't care what happens in your country, are you some kind of authoritarian?  fascist?  What good is having a right to life, liberty etc if you can't enforce or defend it?  seems pretty hollow to claim you have a right if you can't use it or protect it.
    the U.S. is the only country where rights are recognized and has freedom of speech, other countries rights are granted by their governments, something given can also be taken away, huge difference many do not understand.  Nor do they understand U.S. history and role gun ownership has played, not something easily given up.
    I would bet non gun murders are higher in the U.S. than a lot of other countries, wouldn't you agree?  suicides too probably.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • TKDBTKDB 135 Pts
    Isn't a gun violence committed crime, by a first time offender, an offender, or criminal in general, are cruel and unusual punishments, towards their innocent victim, or victims?

    Via mass shootings, robberies, drive by shootings, murder/ suicide, sexual assaults, and so on? 
  • DeeDee 309 Pts
    edited May 17
    @Applesauce

    You say ....so why do you care so much LOL 


    My reply .....A shot in the dark here maybe because  ....It’s a debate site 


     You say .....I don't care what happens in your country, are you some kind of authoritarian?  fascist?  


    My reply ......I know you don’t care about human lives except American one , and of course you don’t really care  about them if they’re shot do you once their right to carry a gun is not upset?


    You say .....What good is having a right to life, liberty etc if you can't enforce or defend it?  


    My reply .....It’s a fair point seeing as you live in a very violent country , how many times a year do you “defend “ yourself?


    You say ......Seems pretty hollow to claim you have a right if you can't use it or protect it.


    My reply .....Read above 


    You say .....the U.S. is the only country where rights are recognized and has freedom of speech, 


    My reply ....Nonsense 


    You say .....other countries rights are granted by their governments, something given can also be taken away, huge difference many do not understand.  Nor do they understand U.S. history and role gun ownership has played, not something easily given up.


    My reply .....Nonsense, a woman’s right to bodily autonomy has been taken away in Alabama where abortion is now illegal , that’s something that was given but taken away buddy 


    You say .....I would bet non gun murders are higher in the U.S. than a lot of other countries, wouldn't you agree?  suicides too probably.


    My reply ....I don’t know so what?

    Applesauce
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