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Marijuana should be legal, change my mind.
in Politics

By YeshuaRedeemedYeshuaRedeemed 379 Pts
While I don't want to use this product, I think other people have the right to do so, if they get it from a doctor.
PlaffelvohfenApplesaucebillbatardZombieguy1987
«134567



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Arguments

  • RyanHoughRyanHough 71 Pts
    I mean I don't completely agree, but if it's the last resort then yes it should be able to be used. 
  • There are no valid reason to make cannabis illegal, for any usage...
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 191 Pts
    Definitely not medically illegal if that has been proven to be effective for some conditions which it has. 

    I am not entirely sure about all the data on it but from what I remember most people who use marijuana do not become addicted and there isn't really much significance between the effect of it compared with alcohol. Secondly, for those that are addicts, they'd be better served as people needing treatment for addiction issues as opposed to being seen as criminals; and it is because of the latter that they get nothing but stigmatism which just creates more problems. 

    Thirdly, the idea that it is legal and readily available might actually paradoxically make people feel less inclined to use it.

    Lastly, the legalization and taxation of it also puts an end to those that deal, and/or push it. It therefore also helps to reduce drug-related crime. 
    Plaffelvohfen
    "never show someone your entire hand too soon" - Famous Proverb/Idiom.

  • @ZeusAres42

    Cannabis addiction is very real, but unlike cocaine. nicotine or opioids, there is no chemical component to this addiction, it's more like gambling, a psychological problem... Not all casino goers are gambling addicts obviously, and likewise most cannabis user won't ever develop an addiction , but around 9% of users will.  

    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    @Plaffelvohfen

    Are you a certified Doctor, psychologist, or any type of a real world professional, who can say to the public via the internet, that you can support, and cooberate your below claims with real world evidence? 

    "Cannabis addiction is very real, but unlike cocaine. nicotine or opioids, there is no chemical component to this addiction, it's more like gambling, a psychological problem... Not all casino goers are gambling addicts obviously, and likewise most cannabis user won't ever develop an addiction , but around 9% of users will."

    Have you maybe interviewed some of those professionals, who work with marijuana addicts, at rehab facilities across the country, and they told you, through your various certified interviews, that your above claims are based on those facts, or maybe just on your opinion only? 
    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    edited May 21
    @ZeusAres42

    @Plaffelvohfen

    What about the weed addict parents, or parent, who have been using weed around their kids, and their families, for decades now? 

    Wouldn't it be educational, if someone interviewed the kids who grew up around drug addiction, (weed, cocaine, heroin, meth, crack or rock cocaine, PCP, LSD, mushrooms, prescription drug abuse, and opioid addiction,) and the rest of the voting public, got told the truth, about how kids, have had their parents drug use, and addiction, messing up their lives, because they for the most part had to put up, live with, and coexist with their parent, or a parents drug addiction lifestyle?

    Look at that, couldn't the above be viewed as drug user discrimination? 


    Maybe because it would have interfered, with some of the legalization of medical marijuana, and the recreational marijuana campaigning, being done by the pro drug crowd, and the pro drug users advocates, and activitists talking heads? 

    Think about how many offender drug users are now with their families, because they got arrested for illegal drug use, and possession, and were sent to jail, but the legalization of weed, got them a get out of jail?

    Was the public as a whole, ever educated on what the families of the drug user, or users, have been dealing with, and have been putting up, and living with for years?

    I didn't see their stories, in the magazines that were highlighting the pro weed talking points, about why weed should be legalized? 

    Did anyone else?

    I saw, the pro marijuana legalization of weed campaign in full effect, and didn't hear anyone asking, the pro kid, children, or pro family, or pro law abiding questions?

    But some of the talking heads, did their jobs, and the weed user, is getting their weed, minus being arrested?

    So where are those stories, about the drug users drug use, around their kids, and families? 

    Those stories, are off, on the wind, along with the smoke being exhaled from a drug users mouth, because that's what a weed users justice looks like? 

    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987
  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    While I don't want to use this product, I think other people have the right to do so, if they get it from a doctor.

    Marijuana is legal and I have used and still use it in several different ways. Plaster castings and rope are two of the most frequent ways I use marijuana. The medical use of marijuana come directly from its narcotic classification which makes it available as a prescription medication.

    In basic principle it is not marijuana, which is illegal, law is used to place air pollution into a different category with industry. A person who smokes marijuana is like cigarettes and tabaco is polluting the air. The state of then union in the sale of marijuana publicly is in the murders that have and will take place to control who sells the Marijuana.

    There is a United State Constitutional obligation to separate by regulation the burden of lethal force from the general public.


  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts

    So how do we address marijuana on a constitutional level as President, state of the union address, as governor of state? The first issue as obstacle is how a pardon on the murders that are held within law are connection to the people by united state, crime of influence by ingestion is in truth what is to be in need of regulation.

    Δ-9-tetrahydrocannabinol not marijuana by basic principle.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2825218/

    Additional state of the union is made on the ability for a person to provide their own forms of a medication when possible. Dealing in truth with the growing of marijuana privately. Because of the effects of Δ-9-tetrahydrocannabinol the astatic visible use of the plant has point of limit, this includes the growing for materials and rope for hobby.

  • ApplesauceApplesauce 239 Pts
    @Plaffelvohfen

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/21/auto-crashes-are-on-the-rise-in-marijuana-states.html Auto crashes are on the rise in marijuana states

    then I searched "the negative effects of legalizing marijuana" so try that and see if those are reason enough.

    I don't really care one way or the other as I see benefits both ways, but to claim there are no valid reasons, well, that's just not true at all.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • @Applesauce

    No, those are not reason enough for an outright ban of cannabis...

    Obviously, there is room for regulating it's use like with alcohol, tobacco, guns, cars and many many other things... It's not the use of something (car, gun, knives, alcohol, drugs, etc) that is the problem, it's reckless use of said thing... Driving your car is not a criminal offense, reckless driving is, and DUI (regardless of substance) is reckless driving...
    ApplesauceZeusAres42Zombieguy1987
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 239 Pts
    @Plaffelvohfen

    fair enough
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    @Applesauce

    No, those are not reason enough for an outright ban of cannabis...

    That is part of then issue Plaffelvohfen there was and still is enough for an outright ban. However, an outright ban in this matter had not been based on the Constitutional cause for concern. And it is that negligence which created addition civil issues.


    Applesauce
  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    @Applesauce ;
    @Plaffelvohfen

     The best way to explain my position is that this is not a negotiation on marijuana use. The united-state does not exist on marijuana’s so-called illegal status, in whole truth. There is a law that is attached to names and the basic principle which sets marijuana as illegal would be unexplainable in different terms of use. This is a defusing of understanding so a civil transfer of legal responsibility can take place. The removal of this blame and cost is made to create lawsuits against civil services as the potential of money is then raised to greater settlement then from licensing itself. As for insufficient reason to ban, addressing this is simple. People have been killed for control of the sales of marijuana.  People who have paid for marijuana have also paid to have people killed by how legislation took place. This is a connection that is not a united state with all marijuana or the production of growing marijuana. This state of the Union is on a Federal level as apposed to state level alone. @Applesauce @Plaffelvohfen
    Applesauce
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 239 Pts
    @John_C_87

    yes you are correct many laws try to take away or remove responsibility of the individual thinking that laws will stop their actions, rather than holding people personally accountable for their actions.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1653 Pts
    How about we just let people buy and use whatever they want? I have never understood this desire to force one’s life choices on others. It is like people will use any excuse to distract themselves from working on improving tbeir own life; they will rather tell others what they should or should not do, than do something of their own.
    PlaffelvohfenApplesauceZombieguy1987
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    @Plaffelvohfen

    Did you dismiss the below, maybe because of your individual perception? 

    "No, those are not reason enough for an outright ban of cannabis..."

    This statement from you, is classic pro marijuana talking points rhetoric:

    "Obviously, there is room for regulating it's use like with alcohol, tobacco, guns, cars and many many other things..."

    "It's not the use of something (car, gun, knives, alcohol, drugs, etc) that is the problem, it's reckless use of said thing... Driving your car is not a criminal offense, reckless driving is, and DUI (regardless of substance) is reckless driving..."

    What about the weed addict parents, or parent, who have been using weed around their kids, and their families, for decades now? 

    Wouldn't it be educational, if someone interviewed the kids who grew up around drug addiction, (weed, cocaine, heroin, meth, crack or rock cocaine, PCP, LSD, mushrooms, prescription drug abuse, and opioid addiction,) and the rest of the voting public, got told the truth, about how kids, have had their parents drug use, and addiction, messing up their lives, because they for the most part had to put up, live with, and coexist with their parent, or a parents drug addiction lifestyle?

    Look at that, couldn't the above be viewed as drug user discrimination? 


    Maybe because it would have interfered, with some of the legalization of medical marijuana, and the recreational marijuana campaigning, being done by the pro drug crowd, and the pro drug users advocates, and activitists talking heads? 

    Think about how many offender drug users are now with their families, because they got arrested for illegal drug use, and possession, and were sent to jail, but the legalization of weed, got them a get out of jail?

    Was the public as a whole, ever educated on what the families of the drug user, or users, have been dealing with, and have been putting up, and living with for years?

    I didn't see their stories, in the magazines that were highlighting the pro weed talking points, about why weed should be legalized? 

    Did anyone else?

    I saw, the pro marijuana legalization of weed campaign in full effect, and didn't hear anyone asking, the pro kid, children, or pro family, or pro law abiding questions?

    But some of the talking heads, did their jobs, and the weed user, is getting their weed, minus being arrested?

    So where are those stories, about the drug users drug use, around their kids, and families? 

    Those stories, are off, on the wind, along with the smoke being exhaled from a drug users mouth, because that's what a weed users justice looks like?  

    @Plaffelvohfen

    What about the due justice, that is owed to those kids, children, and the families, who have been putting up with, growing up with, and dealing with because of their drug using parents, or parents, for decades now?

    Why the silence, from the illegal, and legal recreational marijuana user's, when it comes to their decades old drug use around their families? 

    And why the silence, from the pro marijuana advocates, and activitists, when it comes to the real world reality, or the parents drug use around their families, and or the kids, or the children, of other families? 
    Zombieguy1987
  • @TKDB

    I've muted you a while ago, and I don't bother reading your nonsense anymore... So, feel free to address comments to me, I won't even bother...
    ZeusAres42ApplesaucePolaris95Zombieguy1987Dee
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    @Plaffelvohfen

    I don't mute people, I view muting people, as an act of purposeful silence, when a counter argument, isn't likely to be presented? 

    "I've muted you a while ago, and I don't bother reading your nonsense anymore... So, feel free to address comments to me, I won't even bother..."

    Meaning, that you apparently don't have a counter argument, for the below then? 

    What about the due justice, that is owed to those kids, children, and the families, who have been putting up with, growing up with, and dealing with because of their drug using parents, or parents, for decades now?

    Why the silence, from the illegal, and legal recreational marijuana user's, when it comes to their decades old drug use around their families? 

    And why the silence, from the pro marijuana advocates, and activitists, when it comes to the real world reality, or the parents drug use around their families, and or the kids, or the children, of other families?  
    Zombieguy1987
  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    @TKDB ;

    Then issue is basic marijuana can not legally be held as a class 1 narcotic and not be available for prescription. If it has no medical value it is perjury to describe it as such. The idea in basic principle of addiction is simple, the dependency created is lethal. Making a scientific elastration is not constitutional o it is made without protection of law immunity in civil misconduct.

    The Reagan and Bush drug War and even earlier has the principle of contamination of marijuana as the common defense to the general welfare of legal actions. Like described to Plaffelvohfen and applesause.
    I don't mute people, I view muting people, as an act of purposeful silence, when a counter argument, isn't likely to be presented?
    Drug War SkippyTKDB Plaffelvohfen has right to seek relief of a command while on duty.

  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    Constitution describes a basic principle between habit forming and addiction dependent. The united state science must establish is that death will take place as the dependence on a substance is proven. Mean while we are back to the other reason by Military service why a declaration of class 1 narcotic may be placed on Marijuana as common defense to the general welfare. The whole truth here is simply public reports of tampering, there has been a number of reports of narcotics having been placed in marijuana over the years. Some of these narcotics have been pharmaceutical in there creation and this adds a demotion to the status.
  • piloteerpiloteer 325 Pts
    @TKDB

    My parents used weed around me when I was a child, and I have never used marijuana myself. How many children have you interviewed whose lives have been ruined by weed? Are you even a certified anything to be able to have a valid viewpoint on this subject? IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO JUST STOP AND LET THE REST OF US HAVE AN INFORMED DISCUSSION!!!!!!
  • piloteerpiloteer 325 Pts
    edited May 23
    @MayCaesar

    My apologies, I didn't mean to direct any comments at you at this time, and I can't undo it. So. How was your day?
  • piloteerpiloteer 325 Pts
    @John_C_87

    Addiction does not have to be lethal for it to be considered addiction. 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • TK, there is no silence relating to any of those.  It is very easy to find many people speaking about all of those things.  
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1653 Pts
    @piloteer

    No worries. ;) The day was great, but very tiring: 22 hours without sleep. Time to make up for it!
    piloteer
  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    piloteer said: Addiction does not have to be lethal for it to be considered addiction. 

    In basic principle addiction does need to have the threshold of death. It is a dependency that does not need to be lethal. A person who is addicted to heroin will die if the drug is stopped suddenly. A person will have a dependency before they become addicted to a chemical substance.

    No addiction does not have to be lethal it can be explained unconstitutionally free for a number of any reasons. Addiction does not have the ability as word to hold its own self value or cost.


  • John, the definition of addiction, as it is in either standard dictionaries or medical groups such as the American Society of Addiction Medicine, does not require a threshold of death as you put it.
    Plaffelvohfenpiloteer
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    edited May 24
    @piloteer

    "My parents used weed around me when I was a child, and I have never used marijuana myself."

    (All you're doing, is messing around with the overall conversation, by dodging legitimate arguments?)

    So you, can only speak for your own experiences.

    You can't legitimately speak for the millions of those other kids, who grew up with their parents illegal drug use, because maybe the parent, or parents, couldn't be a drug user, without making a place in their lives, for their kids, and their illegal drug habits, at the same time?

    So instead of making their kids, and family, their sober priority, they made their kids live with their illegal drug use, and made it a part of their kids growing up experience, and in a sense made their family put up with their addictions?

    Parents Opposed to Pot:

    This website, has plenty of information that goes into great detail, over the subject.

    CALM (Citizens Against the Legalization of Marijuana) has plenty to information that goes into great detail, over the subject, as well.

     I've shared links from both websites, didn't you see them? 

    "Are you even a certified anything to be able to have a valid viewpoint on this subject?"

    "IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO JUST STOP AND LET THE REST OF US HAVE AN INFORMED DISCUSSION!"

    And exactly, how are informed are you on the discussion? 


    https://poppot.org/

    FOUR STATES DECLINE TO LEGALIZE POT THROUGH LEGISLATURES THIS YEAR

    "Marijuana legalization hit stone walls in New York and New Jersey this week and another effort died in New Hampshire.   In Vermont, legislation to establish a commercial marijuana market faltered, too.  Four states failed.  Tiny windows of opportunity may still be open, but passing bills doesn’t appear possible before the end of this year’s legislative session.

    It was the second year New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy tried to implement marijuana legalization through the legislature.  In New Jersey, marijuana industry ties run deep. Governor Murphy’s first chief of staff was the lobbyist for the New Jersey Cannabis Industry Association. 

    SAM (Smart Approaches to Marijuana) worked for these defeats through its SAM Action division.  Behind the scenes, SAM warns legislators in state and federal governments against marijuana legalization.  SAM does not accept money from the pharmaceuticals industry, as pot lobbyists claim.

    Pro-pot politics is faltering in Illinois and Connecticut, even though both states’ governors support legalization.  Governor Pritzker’s cousins invest in cannabis businesses. Senator Richard Durbin, the Illinois NAACP and Illinois Catholic Bishops  oppose legalization. "

    Learning from mistakes of other states

    "As Illinois State Representative Marty Moylan said, “It’s been a failed experiment in every other state that has made the move to legalize marijuana.”  He wrote a letter to the Chicago Tribune, “Slow the push for legal pot.” A few days ago, the Chicago Tribune wrote another editorial, also calling for the state to slow down.

    Legalization involves advertising and stores which push the public tolerance by locating close to homes and schools. Vermont allows personal possession of two mature marijuana plants, a policy best described as decriminalization.  Although national polls usually don’t give the public the option of decriminalization, decriminalization reflects what most people want when they vote for legalization. "

    "Vermont’s policy started July 1, 2018 and two months later, Keith Cushman smoked marijuana. drove and caused a fatal crash.  A relative of one of the victims called for a better test to determine whether motorists are impaired by marijuana.  Vermont’s decriminalization does not give the state enough power to test and prevent stoned driving.

    Parents Opposed to Pot believes the dangers of using marijuana far outstrip the dangers of an arrest for marijuana possession.  Alex Berenson’s new book, Tell Your Children the Truth about Marijuana, Mental Health and Violence, explains the mental health dangers.

    Traffic deaths and violent crimes went up in the first four states to legalize marijuana.   Drunk drivers never went away, and more people began combining alcohol and marijuana before driving. "

    Big lies permeate  propaganda to legalize marijuana

    "Legalizers suggest or claim:

    1. Massive numbers of people are in jail for simple marijuana possession, which is completely untrue.   John Pfaff wrote a book about the reasons for mass incarceration, finding that prisons are not full of nonviolent drug offenders.
    2. Since “Prohibition” has failed, legalization will work and black markets will go away.   In California, which legalized pot for medical and recreational reasons, about 80% of the market is sold on the black market and the state has failed to get even half of the promised revenue.
    3. The dangers of alcohol will go away if marijuana becomes legal, since many people will find marijuana is a safer alternative to alcohol. 
    4. Legalization will bring “social justice.”  People who advocated legalization for social justice reasons suggest that racial discrimination will vanish through the legalization of marijuana. "

    "We believe that disadvantaged populations will be harmed more with legalization.  SAM specifically highlights the social justice problems with the legalization of pot. Teresa Haley, president of the Illinois NAACP, and other NAACP chapters take stands against legalizing pot. 

    Unfortunately, public policy doesn’t warn people of the mental health risks involved in using pot.  We need a new Parents Movement to head off the misconceptions about marijuana. "


    https://calmca.org/

    "Citizens Against Legalizing Marijuana (CALM) is an all-volunteer Political Action Committee dedicated to defeating any effort to legalize marijuana."

    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    @Plaffelvohfen:

    Prove it, are you maybe saying that these website's, are fallacious in nature, in the light of your individual, and rationalized perception of recreational marijuana?

    Parents Opposed to Pot, and CALM (Citizens Against the Legalization of Marijuana)?

    Do you maybe view their website information, as being fallacious in regards to your own arguments? 


    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987
  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    John, the definition of addiction, as it is in either standard dictionaries or medical groups such as the American Society of Addiction Medicine, does not require a threshold of death as you put it.

    “the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.”

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/addiction

    Definition of trauma

    1a : an injury (such as a wound) to living tissue caused by an extrinsic agent

    b : a disordered psychic or behavioral state resulting from severe mental or emotional stress or physical injury

    c : an emotional upset the personal trauma of an executive who is not living up to his own expectations— Karen W. Arenson

    2 : an agent, force, or mechanism that causes trauma

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trauma

    Are you sure? These references are not even from unabridged source.


  • piloteerpiloteer 325 Pts
    edited May 24
    @TKDB

    <<"You can't legitimately speak for the millions of those other kids, who grew up with their parents illegal drug use, because maybe the parent, or parents, couldn't be a drug user, without making a place in their lives, for their kids, and their illegal drug habits, at the same time?">>

    Ummm, I'm pretty sure you ALSO can't legitimately speak for the "millions of those other kids", because you are not "those other kids". You've yet to demonstrate any actual situations where a child's life was ruined because their parents used marijuana around them. I have pointed out a situation where a child's life was not ruined by their parents marijuana use. If we tally up the score so far, It's 1 for ME. 0 for YOU!!!!!!!!
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    @piloteer

    You're an apparent anonymous name, on the internet, and apparently @Plaffelvohfen is a fan of your rhetoric? 

    "Ummm, I'm pretty sure you ALSO can't legitimately speak for the "millions of those other kids", because you are not "those other kids". You've yet to demonstrate any actual situations where a child's life was ruined because their parents used marijuana around them. I have pointed out a situation where a child's life was not ruined by their parents marijuana use. If we tally up the score so far, It's 1 for ME. 0 for YOU!!!!!!!! "

     Continue on, with your teaching method? 
  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    TKDB said:
    @piloteer

    You're an apparent anonymous name, on the internet, and apparently @Plaffelvohfen is a fan of your rhetoric? 

    "Ummm, I'm pretty sure you ALSO can't legitimately speak for the "millions of those other kids", because you are not "those other kids". You've yet to demonstrate any actual situations where a child's life was ruined because their parents used marijuana around them. I have pointed out a situation where a child's life was not ruined by their parents marijuana use. If we tally up the score so far, It's 1 for ME. 0 for YOU!!!!!!!! "

     Continue on, with your teaching method? 
    Your both wrong you can just create an impartial united state which would speak for all children. 
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    @John_C_87

    Can you elaborate more on this statement from you?

    "Marijuana is legal and I have used and still use it in several different ways."

  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    Sure, I will saying it again. I use pot to secure trees as they are cut to insure a controlled fall. I use pot as a reinforcing for plaster work it is a lost trade learned by internship in Texas. The man who had instructed me was 85 years old at the time. He used pot every day at work if I was asked the truth. It was habit forming the working with pot is a necessity, nylon can stretch to much  Marijuana is not what  holds a united state as illegal it never has. Not in a united state to be held in the United States describes a problem basically. This creates an issue don't you agree?

    "In spite of the risk the United States of America would be a much better place had sailing ships remained with hemp sails, and had not been replaced by steam and cotton, even the business of church would have improved with an expansion of basic sin."
  • piloteerpiloteer 325 Pts
    @TKDB

    It's not very surprising that anybody would be a fan of my "rhetoric". I'm a strong and persuasive debater. As for now, I'm still waiting for a proper retort from you. Can you provide any evidence that children's lives are ruined when their parents use marijuana around them? Outside of that issue, I'm not sure why you feel the need to use up valuable space on this thread to rage against my superior tactics of persuasion. If we could all try to save electricity by staying on topic and only making pertinent points when we post, this world could be a better place. Thanx darlin'  :yum:
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • piloteerpiloteer 325 Pts
    @John_C_87

    I'm pretty sure we have already created an impartial state where children are free to speak for themselves, not a blanket system that attempts to speak for all children. How can we really expect to speak for ALL children as a collective, when we are only individuals ourselves? 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    @piloteer

    What website, or non online or online organizational impartial states, are you maybe alluding to, in this statement from you?

    Because I would be happy to see it, and read those kid, or children, interviews for myself?

    "I'm pretty sure we have already created an impartial state where children are free to speak for themselves,"

    "not a blanket system that attempts to speak for all children. How can we really expect to speak for ALL children as a collective, when we are only individuals ourselves?"

    You know what, the children across the country, should have a, "Children's Bill of Rights," to use as a counter measure, if need be, to protect the children in the United States, from a parent, or parents illegal drug use, and drug abuse, being unlawfully indulged in around those very same children, or their families? 

    Unless the drug using parent, or parents might view, a Children's Bill of Rights, as an unfair, or unequal, measure, that would interfere with their illegal drug use, and might oppose, the creation of such a Bill of Rights, because the illegal drug using parent, or parents, maybe can't, or refuse to properly prioritize, what's maybe more important to them?

    Their own families, or their illegal drug use, lifestyle choices? 


  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    piloteer said:
    @John_C_87

    I'm pretty sure we have already created an impartial state where children are free to speak for themselves, not a blanket system that attempts to speak for all children. How can we really expect to speak for ALL children as a collective, when we are only individuals ourselves? 
    True, that is the easy part of assembling resolution in the complex issue the shared understanding. a United State where all children speak for each other is the harder ensemble of any independence. Basic principle are not always the fastest or easiest to locate and children are not just speaking for themselves ever. When asked to be honest the younger adult is learning to speak for all other including themselves. We are the multiple United State of America's.

    How can we really expect to speak for ALL children as a collective
    In whole truth isn't there only one way. Ask?
  • John_C_87John_C_87 141 Pts
    I am sure this is the better way to phrase the idea. We are the multiple United State of American's. Sorry.
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    @piloteer

    @Plaffelvohfen

    @John_C_87

    https://campaignforchildren.org/resources/fact-sheet/childrens-bill-of-rights/

    "Currently, the United States does not have a comprehensive framework that governs the rights of the child. As a result, the essential needs of thousands of children are not met, and standards relating to the health, safety, and well-being of children are applied unevenly across jurisdictions.

    The provisions in the Children’s Bill of Rights, introduced by Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-IL), Rep. Karen Bass (D-CA), and Rep. Judy Chu (D-CA), are centered around three core areas that are paramount to the healthy development of a child. Rights under each of these core areas should be considered each time decisions are made concerning children so that every child can thrive in a safe and stable environment. In addition, children are entitled to these rights regardless of their gender, class, race, ethnicity, national origin, culture, religion, immigration status, sexual orientation, or ability. "

    Can any of the three of you explain to the public, as a whole, how a parent, or parents illegal, and legalized drug use, around their kids, or families, can maybe be viewed, as a probable safe, and stable environment?

  • piloteerpiloteer 325 Pts
    @TKDB

    A probable safe and stable environment can be deduced when we realize that no adverse affects have been documented from children being raised by parents who use marijuana around them. If or when it is realized that a problem does arise from that, then and only then can the safety or stability of that environment be called into question. Still waiting on your demonstration on how it adversely effects children when their parents use marijuana around them.

    As far as a comprehensive framework that governs the rights of the child goes, the only functional method that can be employed is to teach each child what their rights are, and teach them how to ensure those rights aren't violated. Any "comprehensive framework" that could be attempted, would only serve to force subjective values on to children as a collective, as opposed to teaching them their rights serve them on an individual basis. I suppose it's a parents right to train their children like you suggest, but it's also my right to choose to teach my children rather than train them like pets!!!!
    Plaffelvohfen
  • piloteerpiloteer 325 Pts
    edited May 25
    @John_C_87

    Yes, children can only ever speak for themselves, and never speak for others. This is true for all human beings. Not only in a philosophical, or psychological sense can children not speak for, or on behalf of other children, in a physical sense as well. They (children) are only themselves, therefore, that's as far as their representation can go. I am not you, and you are not I, so we can't speak for each other. The same fact of reality applies with children. They are not pets, they are human lives. "A United State where all children speak for each other" is an unachievable facade!!!! 
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    edited May 25
    @piloteer

    You can justify your own experience.

    Is it possible, that by being raised around your parents drug use, that their influence over you, helped to create, the mindset that you have currently? 

    Do you view their influencing of you, when it came to their drug use, as being an equal, and fair, parental experience to you? 

    Do you know of other people, who were raised around, their parents drug use, and that their parents drug use, influenced their similar pro drug use, mindsets as well?

    "A probable safe and stable environment can be deduced when we realize that no adverse affects have been documented from children being raised by parents who use marijuana around them. If or when it is realized that a problem does arise from that, then and only then can the safety or stability of that environment be called into question. Still waiting on your demonstration on how it adversely effects children when their parents use marijuana around them."

    https://poppot.org/2019/02/05/another-horror-story-of-cannabis-user-who-killed-his-family/

    "ANOTHER HORROR STORY OF CANNABIS USER WHO KILLED HIS FAMILY"

     Last week another violent horror story made national news, and once again, there’s a marijuana connection. Dakota Theriot, a 21-year-old from Louisiana, allegedly killed his parents, his girlfriend and her father and brother. A sheriff called the Dakota Theriot case an “extremely horrific example of failed mental health system.” Five people died, but the violent outbreak follows a pattern of family murders linked to pot use and mental illness.

    Authorities tracked Theriot to his grandmother’s home in Virginia. It didn’t take one journalist long to find out that Theriot had used cannabis for many years.

    “Cory Flannery, a friend of Theriot’s from his time in Warsaw, a small town of about 1,500 in the Northern Neck of Virginia, said he remembers Theriot sitting on his couch eating cereal and smoking marijuana with him. While Flannery said Theriot had a temper, the shooting rampage on Saturday was still out of character for the person he knew.

    “Flannery said Theriot had smoked weed for years and was addicted to cigarettes as a middle-schooler but didn’t know him to use hard drugs at the time. Though he was often in trouble, Flannery said, Theriot didn’t seem violent or dangerous.” 

    When Keith Theriot, Dakota’s deceased father, called police in 2017, the home was in a cloud of marijuana smoke used by both father and son. He said that his son was diagnosed with “substance-induced mood swings.” However, Dakota’s ex-wife, who witnessed his violence and hallucinations, said he had been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Mental illness does not dictate homicidal violence, but it’s more likely to occur when enhanced by drugs like marijuana.

    Colorado Springs Tragedy in November 2017

    In October, 2017, Malik Murphy, aged 20, murdered his brother, Noah, 7 and his sister, Sophia, 5, as the family was sleeping. Murphy and his father Vinnie then got into a fight.  As Malik tried to stab his father, another brother called 911. 

    According to one of the first reports of his erratic behavior: “The parents pinpoint a specific day at school when Malik was 16. Melissa (the mother) says he found a cell phone and instead of returning it to the lost and found, he destroyed it. School authorities eventually caught wind.

    “Melissa and Vinnie say when school officials searched his backpack they found a kitchen steak knife, a little bit of marijuana, and a Bic writing pen he had taken to use to smoke the marijuana out of it.

    “That’s when years of intensive therapy, mental hospital visits and a trial of medications started. The parents say he admitted that he had killed animals and that he had thoughts of killing his family. Malik even went as far as calling police on himself last summer.”

    Pro-legalization advocates continually like to say that the legalization of marijuana in Colorado did not increase youth usage. The criminal evidence coming out of Colorado paints a different picture

    Murders in two Polish Immigrant Families

    The examples go on and on. In a Chicago suburb, 17-year-old John Granat and three friends murdered his parents back in 2011. Reports said that his parents grounded him after they found him growing marijuana in his room. The murder shocked everyone, including a neighbor who called them “the sweetest, most perfect family.”

    “[John] was just the sweetest, nicest kid in the world. Never, ever in a million years would I have thought that John could do something like that. They were like the role-model family of the area. It doesn’t make any sense.”

    “He was a pretty nice kid and I never would’ve expected that and I feel bad for him,” said a classmate. Appearances were deceiving, as trial and investigation showed much more trouble between father and son.

    In Great Britain, Kamil Dantes, the 29-year-old son of Polish immigrants also murdered his parents with a knife in 2015. At the sentencing, Justice Charles Haddon-Cave said: “Your deteriorating mental health had much to do with your history of drug use and in particular your cannabis habit.

    “This is another example of the danger of cannabis use and its ability to induce psychotic behaviour in young men.”  He said that Dantes had “an abnormality of mental functioning.”  More information on the murders can be found here.

    Ashton Sacks drove from Seattle to Orange County, California

    "Although cases above described working families of modest means, other murders describe the outcome of wealth and privilege.  Some may think of these perpetrators as “spoiled,” but spoiled doesn’t explain being murderous or psychotic.

    A stunning example was Ashton Sacks, who appeared to have everything and a family willing and ready to give him more.  A heavy marijuana user, he had made previous suicide attempts, but blamed his parents for messing up his life. He was supposed to be attending community college in Seattle. Instead of going to class, he smoked pot and played video games.

    Sacks, 19, drove from Seattle to southern California to murder his parents and succeeded. He tried to kill his 8-year-old brother, but left him badly injured and paralyzed. He fired a gun at a 17-year-old sister, but missed her. "



  • billbatardbillbatard 122 Pts
    @YeshuaRedeemed what was the question? you got any cheettos?
    piloteer
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    @billbatard

    This is the theme of the forum:

    "Marijuana should be legal, change my mind."

    "what was the question? you got any cheettos?"

    Is this a proper response? 
    piloteer
  • piloteerpiloteer 325 Pts
    @TKDB

    The "demonstrations" you came up with we're handpicked to make it seem like marijuana was a factor in them. If we look through them though, we'll also realize the biggest contributing factor was mental illness. However many handpicked situations you can find, I can find one hundred more that are just as tragic as these, but marijuana was not a factor. I can also show you millions of situations where marijuana was the biggest contributing factor, but no tragedy ever came of it. Frankly, it's sickening to see people try to suggest that mental illness is caused by marijuana, even though all these people that caused those tragedies had underlying issues beforehand. Are you really trying to say marijuana caused the illness that caused these tragedies? I think I speak for the whole community of ID when I say it is sickening to witness the level disrespect to the victims of these tragedies and their families being portrayed here by ignoring the issue of mental illness just to try and make a point. Wow. This is a new low for you. :'(
    Plaffelvohfen
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    edited May 26
    @piloteer

    A demonstration, of how you mindfully crafted your counter argument? 

    "The "demonstrations" you came up with we're handpicked to make it seem like marijuana was a factor in them. If we look through them though, we'll also realize the biggest contributing factor was mental illness. However many handpicked situations you can find, I can find one hundred more that are just as tragic as these, but marijuana was not a factor. I can also show you millions of situations where marijuana was the biggest contributing factor, but no tragedy ever came of it. Frankly, it's sickening to see people try to suggest that mental illness is caused by marijuana, even though all these people that caused those tragedies had underlying issues beforehand. Are you really trying to say marijuana caused the illness that caused these tragedies? I think I speak for the whole community of ID when I say it is sickening to witness the level disrespect to the victims of these tragedies and their families being portrayed here by ignoring the issue of mental illness just to try and make a point. Wow. This is a new low for you."

    These questions, are the ones you apparently swerved at discussing? 

    @piloteer

    You can justify your own experience.

    Is it possible, that by being raised around your parents drug use, that their influence over you, helped to create, the mindset that you have currently? 

    Do you view their influencing of you, when it came to their drug use, as being an equal, and fair, parental experience to you? 

    Do you know of other people, who were raised around, their parents drug use, and that their parents drug use, influenced their similar pro drug use, mindsets as well? 
  • piloteerpiloteer 325 Pts
    @TKDB

    You don't seem to have any linear thought in any of your arguments. You are trying to claim that people who use marijuana around their children will somehow ruin their children's lives, yet you are not able to come up with one single scenario where that has happened. Instead you've opted to mock peoples mental illnesses, and are now attempting to argue that it is my parents fault that I am "pro drug use"?!?! Again, you use simple offensive banter to try and deflect the fact that you haven't got an argument. I'm rather saddened to see you call into question my upbringing. My parents are heavily involved in the church, and they donate food and volunteer at the food kitchen every week. If you wanna use offensive language with me, that's fine, I can take it. But it would break my heart if I found out that you do that to other people on this site. And I certainly hope you don't treat other people so badly as you often do me. 
    PlaffelvohfenDee
  • TKDBTKDB 158 Pts
    edited May 26
    @piloteer

    Yeah, more of the same rhetoric, from you? 

    So, I'll take your avoiding of the questions, directly posed in your direction @piloteer, as they being pretty much true, because your purposefull silence, says more to me, than your typical pro marijuana rhetoric does.

    You can justify your own experience.

    Is it possible, that by being raised around your parents drug use, that their influence over you, helped to create, the mindset that you have currently? 

    Do you view their influencing of you, when it came to their drug use, as being an equal, and fair, parental experience to you? 

    Do you know of other people, who were raised around, their parents drug use, and that their parents drug use, influenced their similar pro drug use, mindsets as well?  

    Thank you for educating me on how some adults can raise kids, around an adults drug use? 
    PlaffelvohfenDee
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