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A question for anti-choicers.
in Politics

By ih8shartsih8sharts 59 Pts
if a child has a deadly disease and there is only one man in the world who can cure it with a bone marrow transplant, are you ok with forcing that man to donate his marrow, without their permission? Why or why not?



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  • I see not how this relates to abortion, but anyway...

    No, he shouldn’t be forced to donate his bone marrow due to the fact that there is no law requiring him to do so. However, just because no law requires him to donate his bone marrow does not mean that it is ethical to not donate
    GenghisKhuntZeusAres42Zombieguy1987
    Sovereignty for Kekistan
  • ih8shartsih8sharts 59 Pts
    @AmericanFurryBoy The lasting effects of a bone marrow transplant are by far less than those of giving birth, So, if you are unwilling to force somebody to donate marrow to save a person, you should be horrified by the idea to force somebody to give birth to save a fetus.
  • @ih8sharts
    ”Lasting effects of giving birth”
    Could you please elaborate?
    Zombieguy1987
    Sovereignty for Kekistan
  • Polaris95Polaris95 126 Pts
    @AmericanFurryBoy

    I can't speak for the OP, but I think he means children.
  • ethang5ethang5 150 Pts
    The analogy is incorrect.

    Does the man have a familial relationship with the baby?

    Did the man's knowing and voluntary action cause the child's illness?

    Who is supposed to force the man? The mother of the ill child? The state? The father of the ill child? Someone else?

    I do have a real question about abortion.

    India has outlawed ultrasounds because couples were using it to abort female babies.

    My question is to people who think a woman should be able to choose an abortion, is aborting a baby OK if the woman does so because the baby is female?

    If in a country, like India for example, women begin to too many female babies, should anything be done?

    Is there any reason a woman could give for an abortion that you would consider should be made illegal?
  • Well, the right to life does not entail a right to someone's body without consent...

    That's why it would be wrong to force someone to give bone marrow and why it is wrong to force someone to go through an unwanted pregnancy.
    Zombieguy1987ih8sharts
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1127 Pts
    ih8sharts said:
    @AmericanFurryBoy The lasting effects of a bone marrow transplant are by far less than those of giving birth, So, if you are unwilling to force somebody to donate marrow to save a person, you should be horrified by the idea to force somebody to give birth to save a fetus.

    Your analogy might be relevant if the State had forced the woman to conceive the child.  Did the State somehow force the woman to become pregnant?
  • CYDdharta said:

    Your analogy might be relevant if the State had forced the woman to conceive the child.  Did the State somehow force the woman to become pregnant?
    This is irrelevant... Sexual intercourse does not guarantee pregnancy... And it's not the only way to conceive either...  Because doing action X involves a risk of result Y, doesn't entail responsibility over Y happening as a result of action X... Nothing is 100% risk free... No court would recognize a 100% risk-free liability standard for anything...
    CYDdhartaih8sharts
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1127 Pts

    This is irrelevant... Sexual intercourse does not guarantee pregnancy... And it's not the only way to conceive either...  Because doing action X involves a risk of result Y, doesn't entail responsibility over Y happening as a result of action X... Nothing is 100% risk free... No court would recognize a 100% risk-free liability standard for anything...

    Sorry, but this is just wrong.  Driving, likewise, doesn't guarantee an accident; but if I cause an accident while driving, I'll be held liable for any and all damages in any court in the land.  This all falls under the heading of personal responsibility.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 582 Pts
    edited June 3
    @CYDdharta

    Your driving example isn't an appropriate analogy here... 

    The mere fact of "driving" a car doesn't imply that you'll be responsible for any and all accidents that may happen, right? But that is what you are implying for the woman having sex...

    Having sex doesn't entail getting pregnant... 
    CYDdharta
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • I am a prochoice organ donar, so this should be fun!
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1127 Pts
    edited June 4
    @CYDdharta

    Your driving example isn't an appropriate analogy here... 

    The mere fact of "driving" a car doesn't imply that you'll be responsible for any and all accidents that may happen, right? But that is what you are implying for the woman having sex...

    The mere fact of "driving" a car DOES imply that you'll be responsible for any and all accidents that are your fault.  In fact, the law goes farther than that in that you are required to take any and all reasonable actions to avoid an accident.  It's a perfectly good analogy.

    Having sex doesn't entail getting pregnant...

    There is only one way to get pregnant accidentally.
  • CYDdharta said:

    The mere fact of "driving" a car DOES imply that you'll be responsible for any and all accidents that are your fault.  In fact, the law goes farther than that in that you are required to take any and all reasonable actions to avoid an accident.  It's a perfectly good analogy.
    I'd argue that the fault entirely resides on the man for not pulling out before ejaculating, so if anyone should be held responsible then he and only he should be held responsible...

    But even all this doesn't change the fact that the right to life doesn't entail a right to someone else's body, in whole or in parts, without continuous consent.
    ih8sharts
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • @CYDdharta That zygote had no right to my body, without my consent. I took Plan B, because i was in an unsafe situation. I have no idea when life begins, but it is not safe for me to be pregnant, and yes, I had my tubes removed for this reason. Kicks and giggles said no abortion patient ever.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1127 Pts

    I'd argue that the fault entirely resides on the man for not pulling out before ejaculating, so if anyone should be held responsible then he and only he should be held responsible...

    That's a pretty poor method of preventing a pregnancy and thus makes for a pretty poor argument.

    But even all this doesn't change the fact that the right to life doesn't entail a right to someone else's body, in whole or in parts, without continuous consent.

    I wonder if you see the irony of your statement.


  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 582 Pts
    edited June 4
    @CYDdharta
    That's a pretty poor method of preventing a pregnancy 
    Oh really? How so? Can't wait to hear that one...
    I wonder if you see the irony of your statement.
    Please, tell me...
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 446 Pts
    Some people have gone off the rails here. This argument isn't about abortion. It's about whether or not it's ethical to be forced to donate bone marrow. 
    ih8sharts

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1127 Pts

    Oh really? How so? Can't wait to hear that one...

    The better you are about using the pull out method correctly — keeping any ejaculation (cum) away from the vulva and vagina every single time you have sex — the better it will work to prevent pregnancy. For every 100 people who use the pull out method perfectly, 4 will get pregnant.

    But pulling out can be difficult to do perfectly. So in real life, about 22 out of 100 people who use withdrawal get pregnant every year — that’s about 1 in 5.
    I wonder if you see the irony of your statement.
    Please, tell me...

    That certainly answers my question.

  • CYDdharta said:

    The better you are about using the pull out method correctly — keeping any ejaculation (cum) away from the vulva and vagina every single time you have sex — the better it will work to prevent pregnancy. For every 100 people who use the pull out method perfectly, 4 will get pregnant.

    But pulling out can be difficult to do perfectly. So in real life, about 22 out of 100 people who use withdrawal get pregnant every year — that’s about 1 in 5.

    And? Your point? Your blaming men's unwillingness to train themselves properly? How does that failing of men, entail any liability to the woman regarding the possible pregnancy? It's up to the man to learn the correct method before having sex, that's his penis, not hers...
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • Some people have gone off the rails here. This argument isn't about abortion. It's about whether or not it's ethical to be forced to donate bone marrow. 
    Well, my argument in favor for a right to abortion is that, the right to life doesn't entail a right to use someone else's body part without continuous consent, so it is relevant to the topic... Now, some are arguing that how this life came to be, matters... I'm saying it doesn't... 
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1127 Pts
    edited June 5
    CYDdharta said:

    The better you are about using the pull out method correctly — keeping any ejaculation (cum) away from the vulva and vagina every single time you have sex — the better it will work to prevent pregnancy. For every 100 people who use the pull out method perfectly, 4 will get pregnant.

    But pulling out can be difficult to do perfectly. So in real life, about 22 out of 100 people who use withdrawal get pregnant every year — that’s about 1 in 5.

    And? Your point? Your blaming men's unwillingness to train themselves properly? How does that failing of men, entail any liability to the woman regarding the possible pregnancy? It's up to the man to learn the correct method before having sex, that's his penis, not hers...
    It doesn't, unless the sex is consensual.  You know consensual, right?  "(of an activity) which the people taking part have agreed to"  If two people have agreed to take part in the activity, they're both equally responsible for any and all consequences.
  • @CYDdharta
    It doesn't, unless the sex is consensual.  You know consensual, right?  "(of an activity) which the people taking part have agreed to"  If two people have agreed to take part in the activity, they're both equally responsible for any and all consequences. 

    So, if I consent to get in your car for a ride and you drive recklessly, I would be as guilty as you for the possible accident?  Makes total sense..........
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1127 Pts

    So, if I consent to get in your car for a ride and you drive recklessly, I would be as guilty as you for the possible accident?  Makes total sense..........
    If you're doing as much to control the car as I am, yes.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @CYDdharta ;
    If you're doing as much to control the car as I am, yes.
    Didn't know cars had 2 drive wheels and 2 sets of controls...  There's only one wheel in that analogy and that's your penis, if you can't control your ejaculation it's not the woman's fault...

    But it's beside the point anyway and you know it, but as disingenuous people do, you deflect and refuse to address the core arguments... Nothing new here...
    ZeusAres42
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
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