frame

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

DebateIsland.com is the largest online debate website globally where anyone can anonymously and easily debate online, casually or formally, while connecting with their friends and others. Users, regardless of debating skill level, can civilly debate just about anything online in a text-based online debate website that supports five easy-to-use and fun debating formats ranging from Casual, to Formalish, to Lincoln-Douglas Formal. In addition, people can improve their debating skills with the help of revolutionary artificial intelligence-powered technology on our debate website. DebateIsland is totally free and provides the best online debate experience of any debate website.





Do you stand with Planned Parenthood, in protecting Title X?

2»



Post Argument Now Debate Details +

    Arguments


  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited July 2019
    @ethang5

    Ethang still cannot defend his position such is his cowardice , his collapse and defeat was a given anyway  

    Can you even attempt an answer E T .......

    Your complete capitulation and collapse were anticipated,  you Bible thumpers are 10 a Penny you’s have attempted to rebrand biblical slavery and been defeated easily ......Why not even try ET here you go again ...... 

    Leviticus 25:45

    Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

    Leviticus 25:46

    And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour



    Poor little E T thinks owning people as property is a thing of beauty because god says so.


    E T says buying a fellow human as a possession in not in fact slavery but an act of kindness ....Read above E T 


    E T thinks owning a person for life is an act of kindness .....Read above E T 



    E T thinks selling your daughter as a sex slave is  perfectly fine because god approves .......


    7If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do. 8If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He does not have authority to sell her to a foreign people because of his unfairness to her. 9If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. 10If he takes to himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights. 11If he will not do these three things for her, then she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.



    Read above E T ....puts your nonsense  to bed again mate 



    Again E T thinks beating fellow human beings to near death is cool as god says so ......


    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)



    See them words again E T slave , property.....the slave is his property you offensively troll which no doubt you will deny yet again like the you are 

  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    >Ethang still cannot defend his position...

    Who are you talking to?

    The board already knows you're an so I need say no more.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ethang5

    You say ......Who are you talking to?

    My reply .....A message posted to you normally means it’s for ......you .......tricky stuff ET but there ya go 

    You say ......The board already knows you're an so I need say no more.

    My reply ......Yet you’re the one name calling and refusing to defend your opinion pieces because when me and others point out the flaws in your irrational posts you sulk and blame your opponents for what you consistently fail to do as in offer a valid defense.......I note with amusement you’re doing the very same dance at the moment with @AlexOland and @ZeusAres42 of course this will as usual be denied no doubt 
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42AlexOland
  • Dee said:
    @ethang5

    You say ......Who are you talking to?

    My reply .....A message posted to you normally means it’s for ......you .......tricky stuff ET but there ya go 

    You say ......The board already knows you're an so I need say no more.

    My reply ......Yet you’re the one name calling and refusing to defend your opinion pieces because when me and others point out the flaws in your irrational posts you sulk and blame your opponents for what you consistently fail to do as in offer a valid defense.......I note with amusement you’re doing the very same dance at the moment with @AlexOland and @ZeusAres42 of course this will as usual be denied no doubt 
    He is the ultimate epitome of the Dunning-Kruger effect
    PlaffelvohfenAlexOlandDee



  • AlexOlandAlexOland 313 Pts   -  
    @Dee

     I had some kind of respect for him until he said this to me in his latest response:

    Never for me, as I am so rarely wrong. You will just have to earn your points through debate and not simply declare yourself winner.

    That image you have in your head of being this great debater will have to be adjusted. A premium membership you get with money, debate wins require intelligence and experience.

     The amount of self-awareness this guy has is almost nonexistent. What he says here is so ironic that I can hardly believe that he is serious.
    PlaffelvohfenDeeZeusAres42
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -   edited July 2019
    @Dee

    Who are you talking to?

    >A message posted to you normally means it’s for ....

    Then what's with all the third person, "Ethan said, Ethan thinks, Ethan still cannot..." ?

    Are you afraid to talk to me? Your dodging of my replies indicate that.

    The board already knows you're an so I need say no more.

    >Yet you’re the one name calling and refusing to defend your opinion pieces

    You're spamming moron. There is nothing to respond to if you stupidly simply repost your spam.

    >..because when me and others point out the flaws in your irrational posts you sulk and blame your opponents for what you consistently fail to do

    This is the silly congratulations you idiots give yourselves in lieu of actually debating a point. Eh.

    >...as i offer a valid defense

    If you had a defense, you would offer it and answer questions put to you. Instead, you dodge questions and repost stupidity already addressed. Alex and Z at least attempt debate. You're just a penny a dozen net playing to the gallery.

    >......I note with amusement you’re doing the very same dance at the moment

    To you, pleasing your fellow dweebs in an atheist group jerk is a what a win is.

    Peer pressure doesn't move me, and the number of idiots pushing a idea is irrelevant.

    The only people you can convince are already in your choir. Eh.

    If you had any faith in your argument, you would be able to answer questions.

    I know how dishonest you are. I've been through you lies, your mirror posts, your sock puppets, and the mod having to warn you.

    If your aim was to appear a "winner" by jerking off in a circle with your cohorts, you wasted your time, you could have just shot your load without all the other stupidity.

    The mistake you dolts make with me is you think that, like you, I am motivated by, and seeking, political correct groupthink.

    I need say nothing to Alex or Z, as their support for you demeans them much more than anything I could say.

    Now, you can post the verse yet again and do another round of third person Ethan thinks lies, trying to state my position for me because you have no defense for my real position, or you could show some integrity.

    If your history is any indication, I know which you'll choose.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42

    That gave me a good laugh as it’s spot on , I’ve never seen the guy actually defend his positions for some reason he flies into a rage when questioned that is a situation that I’m afraid will not change in the future 
    ZeusAres42
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @AlexOland

    Unbelievable isn’t it ,I believe he’s just trolling and he stated before he was 58 years of age so is fairly sets in his ways now , if I believed I would actually offer up some prayers to god to bring him calming and healing :) 


    I note he lacked the courage to offer you apologies for the many contradictory statements he made and attempted to deny such, it’s a great pity he cannot concede points when proven wrong but that’s the way he is I’m afraid 
    ZeusAres42AlexOland
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited July 2019
    @ethang5

    Oh dear , another hate filled diatribe from E T , they are simple bible verses can you not attempt to address each one? Could you ease yourself in and attempt to defend even one? .......No? Ok I thought so.

    @ZeusAres42 made a very amusing observation as in you’re the epitome of the Dunning - Kruger effect ........

    The Dunning-Kruger effect (also known as Mount [1] or Smug Snake[2]), named after David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University, occurs where people fail to adequately assess their level of competence — or specifically, their incompetence — at a task and thus consider themselves much more competent than everyone else. This lack of awareness is attributed to their lower level of competence robbing them of the ability to critically analyse their performance, leading to a significant overestimation of themselves. In simple words it's "people who are too ignorant to know how ignorant they are".


    I note also you never offered @AlexOland an apology for your glaring contradictions, your denials were typical but obvious to everyone on D I , you need to grow up and act your age not your boot size 

    ZeusAres42
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -   edited July 2019
    @Dee

    As I thought. Another vacuous post of you fapping yourself in front of your jerk circle.

    You even name dropped them. I guess you're happy now.

    Go back and look at the defense in my threads, the one you're pretending now doesn't exist, and try to answer the questions I asked you that you are currently running from.

    While you do that I'll fly into another rage. Lol
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited July 2019
    @ethang5

    You couldn’t even attempt a defence of one bible verse regards slavery , your only defence was to state “untrue” to most everything I asked , so let’s try one verse you can get help if you wish .......

    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    Here was your defence .....
    I am only interested in pointing out that the slavery you mentioned from the bible is not slavery where humans were owned like the slavery of the American deep south. Of course some forms of slavery are evil. I was the one who said it had different meanings.


    So E T how is this a “different “ form of slavery? How is owning one as a slave not actually  owning one as a slave as you keep claiming 

    Any defence E T apart come saying “untrue”?
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    It's spam moron.

    Read slowly. Go back to my posts where I answered you. And then answer the questions you're running from.

    Spamming will not help you. Nor will your silly running play by play  interpretation of my intent.

    You have to decide if you want interaction, or if you will be satisfied with your stupidity. It makes no difference to me.

    I don't scare, I don't get frustrated, I don't tire, and I don't care about your moron opinion. 

    You are welcome to show the board your stupidity for as long as you like.

    If it will help your fantasy, pretend I went into another "rage".

    Aaaarrrg!!!

    Lol
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ethang5

    Hows it spam E T? I’ve taken your answer to a question on slavery and asked you to justify it you cannot do so as you’ve been brutally exposed as a coward and a who denys what he actually said ......here you go again bet you will serve up more of the same as you have no defence still .......


    You couldn’t even attempt a defence of one bible verse regards slavery , your only defence was to state “untrue” to most everything I asked , so let’s try one verse you can get help if you wish .......

    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    Ethang stated and cannot defend , his efforts at justifying slavery ...........


    Here was your defence .....
    I am only interested in pointing out that the slavery you mentioned from the bible is not slavery where humans were owned like the slavery of the American deep south. Of course some forms of slavery are evil. I was the one who said it had different meanings.


    So E T how is this a “different “ form of slavery? How is owning one as a slave not actually  owning one as a slave as you keep claiming 

    Any defence E T apart from screeching its saying “untrue”?

    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • ethang5 said:
    @Dee

    As I thought. Another vacuous post of you fapping yourself in front of your jerk circle.

    You even name dropped them. I guess you're happy now.

    Go back and look at the defense in my threads, the one you're pretending now doesn't exist, and try to answer the questions I asked you that you are currently running from.

    While you do that I'll fly into another rage. Lol
    Take this post as a compliment as remarks like these are usually acts of desperation just to try and win an argument at all costs but which ultimately undermines their position. No one gets anywhere in a a discussion by name calling and guessing up theories about about another person. This isn't argumentation; it's child's play. 
    Dee



  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42

    You say .....Take this post as a compliment as remarks like these are usually acts of desperation just to try and win an argument at all costs but which ultimately undermines their position. No one gets anywhere in a a discussion by name calling and guessing up theories about about another person. This isn't argumentation; it's child's play. 

    My reply ......He will do anything to avoid debating and it’s amusing to watch  him do the same dance with you and Alex. It’s incredible how he goes into a flying rage and keeps refusing to answer questions , I’ve asked him one specific question and used and highlighted his answer and he refuses to defend such , he claims he’s 58 yet behaves like a spoiled child and you’re correct it is child’s play and nothing else 
    ZeusAres42
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    >Hows it spam E T?

    Repeatedly posting the same  unnecessary nonsense is spam.

    You like seeing your own posts.

    >I’ve taken your answer to a question on slavery and asked you to justify it

    Lie. You've "suggested" an answer for me and claim that is what I think, as in your silly, "Ethan thinks" spam. You do this because you can't debate.

    >you cannot do so as you’ve been brutally exposed as a coward and a who denys what he actually said

    Yeah, there you go congratulating yourself again. One wonders why you aren't the greatest debater on Earth.

    If I have been "brutally (lol) exposed as a coward", why are you chasing me? Why aren't you satisfied with your self appointed "win"?

    > ......here you go again bet you will serve up more of the same as you have no defence still .......

    I cannot be goaded fool. You have shown me that you either aren't interested in debate, or are unable to debate. What you want is another round to play the jester for your circle jerk. You can do that without me.

    >You couldn’t even attempt a defence of one bible verse regards slavery , your only defence was to state “untrue” to most everything I asked , so let’s try one verse you can get help if you wish .......

    The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing, the same way, and expecting a different result.

    Stupidity is what convinced me you were a troll in the first place, it will not convince me to play with you now.

    >Ethang stated and cannot defend, his efforts at justifying slavery ...

    That is better, but is still your opinion. We don't need running commentary. And if you could debate, you wouldn't need it either.

    Trying to color the conversation that way with 3rd person side opinions masqueraded as fact is pathetic.

    >Here was your defence .....

    I am only interested in pointing out that the slavery you mentioned from the bible is not slavery where humans were owned like the slavery of the American deep south. Of course some forms of slavery are evil. I was the one who said it had different meanings.


    >So E T how is this a “different “ form of slavery?

    Already answered. Go back to my post where I answered.

    >How is owning one as a slave not actually  owning one as a slave as you keep claiming

    Stop lying. You'll actually get further. Or have enough faith in the correctness of your position that you do not feel the need to lie.

    >Any defence E T apart from screeching its saying “untrue”?

    You just posted part of my defence, now you're saying I only said "untrue". You don't even care to appear consistent do ya?

    That is what preaching to the choir will do to your logic. Since they endorse every argument you post, you stop thinking and post any stupidity that emotionally appeals to you, taking their fist bumps as proof you've been logical. It makes you an intellectual slob.

    I gave you my defense. Address it,  or run away claiming I could not defend. I don't really care. I let my posts speak for me.

    Anyone reading our exchanges will be able to see your stupidity, even your choir. So I'm satisfied. Why aren't you?

    Since you get your jollies posting bible verses, perhaps posting the entire bible will give you an orgasm. Try it. It might work, cause lord knows you aren't here to debate.
    PlaffelvohfenDee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited July 2019
    @ethang5

    Ethang in his usual rage posts up a wall of  text which is basically his usual as in firing of 15 lines of insult and fury laden bile , Ethang claims to be a follower of Jesus yet typically ignores everything Jesus ever said about interacting with others.

    Lets quote Ethang yet again regards his comments on slavery and this verse in particular .....When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    ....Here was your defence .....I am only interested in pointing out that the slavery you mentioned from the bible is not slavery where humans were owned like the slavery of the American deep south. Of course some forms of slavery are evil. I was the one who said it had different meanings.


    So E T how is this a “different “ form of slavery? How is owning one as a slave not actually  owning one as a slave as you keep claiming 

    Any defence E T apart from screeching and saying “it’s untrue”?

  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    What did Aaron do or say to you to stop you from being ? So far you've haven't done any mirror posting and have kept your vulgarity at a minimum.

    None of your sock puppets have made an appearance in the thread either. Sure you still lied and spammed stupidity, but for you that is progress.

    People like you fascinate me. People who are satisfied with lies. How to you feel inside? I know the fist bumps are pleasant, but do they erase the fact that you lied?

    No "win" for me would matter if I got it dishonestly. I have never been able to understand people like you who are so slavish to public opinion that you chuck integrity for it.

    I wish I could study you, but then honesty isn't something you do.

    And amazingly, none of your so called friends will take you aside and give you a heads up.

    You're probably still stinging from trying to goad me into getting banned. As I remember, you even warned me that it was immanent. And instead you got shut down.

    I notice you didn't ask how your repeated post was spam again in this repetition. Lol.

    What did you think about my suggestion to post the whole bible? Would that not be a moron spraypainter's dream?

    Lol. What a moron.
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    What did Aaron do or say to you to stop you from being ? So far you've haven't done any mirror posting and have kept your vulgarity at a minimum.

    None of your sock puppets have made an appearance in the thread either. Sure you still lied and spammed stupidity, but for you that is progress.

    People like you fascinate me. People who are satisfied with lies. How to you feel inside? I know the fist bumps are pleasant, but do they erase the fact that you lied?

    No "win" for me would matter if I got it dishonestly. I have never been able to understand people like you who are so slavish to public opinion that you chuck integrity for it.

    I wish I could study you, but then honesty isn't something you do.

    And amazingly, none of your so called friends will take you aside and give you a heads up.

    You're probably still stinging from trying to goad me into getting banned. As I remember, you even warned me that it was immanent. And instead you got shut down.

    I notice you didn't ask how your repeated post was spam again in this repetition. Lol.

    What did you think about my suggestion to post the whole bible? Would that not be a moron spraypainter's dream?

    Lol. What a moron.
    PlaffelvohfenDee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  


    Wow! That’s some rage you’re in and you post up yet another wall of insults and fury laden bile which proves how upset you are , 
    Ethang it’s a simple question can you give it a go , you can change your previous answer if you wish......


    Lets quote Ethang yet again regards his comments on slavery and this verse in particular .....When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    ....Here was your defence .....I am only interested in pointing out that the slavery you mentioned from the bible is not slavery where humans were owned like the slavery of the American deep south. Of course some forms of slavery are evil. I was the one who said it had different meanings.


    So E T how is this a “different “ form of slavery? How is owning one as a slave not actually  owning one as a slave as you keep claiming 

    Any defence E T apart from screeching and saying “it’s untrue”?


    Give it a go and maybe you need to re- evaluate what part of Christ’s teaching you’re following when you post of your fury laden rants?

    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • @Dee

    I thought E T went home?
    PlaffelvohfenDee



  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee
    @ZeusAres42

    >I thought E T went home?

    Nah, he just has a life.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42

    And going on his efforts here he should have stayed there :)
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ethang5

    You say .......Nah, he just has a life.

    My reply .....Which probably translates into E T pounding furiously on front doors Bible in hand ready to teach others his fury laden version of  Christianity
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    You forgot to post the bible verse again this time. Stupidity not working for you anymore?

    Short attention span of your circle buddies working against you?

    Lol. This is the DI brain trust.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ethang5

    You say ......You forgot to post the bible verse again this time

    My reply .....But why would I when you have no defense.     You told another person on C D regarding the Bible “read the verse as written without your spin on it “  and like the hypocrite you are when confronted with a bible verse telling how one may beat a slave what do you do .......put your spin on it to mean something else , you’re a hypocrite buddy 
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -   edited July 2019
    @Dee

    You forgot to post the bible verse again this time

    >But why would I when you have no defense.  

    Or posting it more than 15 times struck even you as .

    >You told another person on C D regarding the Bible “read the verse as written without your spin on it “  and like the hypocrite you are when confronted with a bible verse telling how one may beat a slave what do you do .......put your spin on it to mean something else , you’re a hypocrite buddy

    And you are a fool, and Ethan doesn't suffer fools. You've met a person who is unmoved by your childish goading and your circle jerk friends. You are now out of any ideas.

    You can always go back to "mirror posting", or tell your friends yet again how in a "rage" I am.

    An option is to simply address my rebuttals, but you're too dumb to do that. So your running side comments to 3rd person Ethan will continue, right?

    Your circle has been quiet.  What's up? Fist bumps no longer working for you?
    PlaffelvohfenDee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited July 2019
    @ethang5


    You say ........An option is to simply address my rebuttals, but you're too dumb to do that. So your running side comments to 3rd person Ethan will continue, right?



    Wow ! In another rage I see ET .........My addressing your “rebuttal” 16 times now has you in denial and lying how tragic , lets quote you again in your own words , another lying Christian who would believe it .....


    Here was your defence to this verse ......When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    Ethang said .......


     .....I am only interested in pointing out that the slavery you mentioned from the bible is not slavery where humans were owned like the slavery of the American deep south. Of course some forms of slavery are evil. I was the one who said it had different meanings.


    My reply ......

    So E T how is this a “different “ form of slavery? How is owning one as a slave not actually  owning one as a slave as you keep claiming 


    Any defence E T apart from screeching and saying “it’s untrue”?



    Give it a go and maybe you need to re- evaluate what part of Christ’s teaching you’re following when you post of your fury laden rants?



    Oh dear E T any defence apart from lying?

  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    It's in my post to you loser. People who read through the thread will see it.

    You have to pretend its not there so you can continue to be a public for your buds.

    How is that working for you?

    If your position is so strong, why do you have to pretend my answers aren't there? 

    Isn't that sort of  admitting  defeat in itself?

    Lol. But tell them I'm in another "rage", that should help your logic- less position.
    PlaffelvohfenDee
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 Emerald Premium Member 2665 Pts   -   edited July 2019
     



  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited July 2019
    @ethang5


    You say ....it’s in my post

    My reply .....

     I know read below . The only one pretending it’s not there is you (18 times now) so read and deny your words again , everyone can you You shamefacedly lying and denying your own words out of sheer cowardice.

    So sulk and rage and deny your words below yet again you big immature child 

    Here was your defence to this verse ......When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    Ethang said .......


     .....I am only interested in pointing out that the slavery you mentioned from the bible is not slavery where humans were owned like the slavery of the American deep south. Of course some forms of slavery are evil. I was the one who said it had different meanings.


    My reply ......

    So E T how is this a “different “ form of slavery? How is owning one as a slave not actually  owning one as a slave as you keep claiming 


    Any defence E T apart from screeching and saying “it’s untrue”?

  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    >Any defence E T apart from screeching and saying “it’s untrue”?

    I need no defense from stupidity.

    The only thing you can do is play the court jester for your mates and that doesn't hurt me any.

    But as I told you, I don't get tired, I don't get frustrated, I don't get angry. I will let you be for as long as you like. Trolls like you are a dime a dozen.

    Dance DeeDee, what entertains your mates entertains me too.
    PlaffelvohfenDee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ethang5

    Poor E T still sulking and raging I quote you in your own words and you say “I need no defence against stupidity”  , well you do as they are your words not mine and you cannot defend them as your own stupidity has you regretting you typed them ......I will let you try a different defence if you wish get your Christian buddies to help you ......oh wait they’ve disowned you for gross stupidity 
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -   edited July 2019
    @Dee

    >Poor E T still sulking and raging I quote you in your own words and you say “I need no defence against stupidity”,

    True. I need no defense against punctuation either it seems.

    >well you do as they are your words not mine

    They are selected. Stupidity requires you to edit my replies and then post them as if they were my own.

    >...and you cannot defend them as your own stupidity has you regretting you typed them

    Lol. If this were true, you wouldn't be chasing me round the board loser. Earn your points in debate, don't declare them yourself in a running commentary.

    > ......I will let you try a different defence if you wish get your Christian buddies to help you

    Against you? Lol funny.

    > ......oh wait they’ve disowned you for gross stupidity

    Lucky then that I still have your stupidity.
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @Ethang ;

    I quote your stupidity word for word and now you say your comments were “edited “ Bwaaaaaaahahahahahaha......You’re so ashamed of your stupidity your last desperate defence is to say your stupidity was edited ........The whole board has read your rages , sulking and denials .....It’s getting tiring schooling you Doofus 
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • antant42antant42 13 Pts   -  
    So what? What basis do you even have to say slavery is wrong? If we are just star dust bouncing into stardust how do you condemn a believer when you yourself have no foundation to stand on to say this is right or this is wrong?
    PlaffelvohfenDee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited August 2019
    @antant42

    You say .....So what? What basis do you even have to say slavery is wrong?

    My reply .....The basis I have is I treat others as I wish to be treated myself and most of us do likewise it’s a like a social contract we tend to agree on

    You say .......If we are just star dust bouncing into stardust how do you condemn a believer

    My reply .....I do not condemn believers , I condemn those believers who think it acceptable to own people as property 

     You say ......when you yourself have no foundation to stand on to say this is right or this is wrong?

    My reply ......Of course I have a foundation as in what I stated from the outset. A believers morality is based on what god claims is moral and has nothing to do with their thinking on the matter , if we agree killing is mostly wrong and god appears and claims killing is right and perfectly moral does that make it so?

    The Bible clearly states slaves are your property any amount of Christian spin does not change what the text says , I do not agree owning people as property is moral as I would not like this inflicted on me or mine , why would any rational being deem the originator of such “moral” pronouncements is the source of all goodness?
  • antant42antant42 13 Pts   -  
    @Dee
    I really appreciate your detailed reply and the respect you show in debate. 
     

    You said- The basis I have is I treat others as I wish to be treated myself and most of us do likewise it’s a like a social contract we tend to agree on

    I must have missed the meeting where we all signed this contract. I don’t remember signing anything. There is no social contract. 

    You have provided no basis as to why you believe we should treat other as we wish to be treated. Actually you borrow from the Bible to Justify yourself.  

    What kind of social contract was signed when the world thought slavery was ok? What about when Germany through the Holocaust was ok?

    I ask again, what is your basis to declare Slavery is wrong? Why was it wrong 100 years ago, 1000 years ago. Or are you saying that what is moral changes and there are not moral absolutes?


    You said .....I do not condemn believers , I condemn those believers who think it acceptable to own people as property 

    You can not begin to condemn these believer without first a basis as to why slavery would be wrong. 



     You say ...
    The Bible clearly states slaves are your property any amount of Christian spin does not change what the text says , I do not agree owning people as property is moral as I would not like this inflicted on me or mine , why would any rational being deem the originator of such “moral” pronouncements is the source of all goodness?

    sorry deleted one section on accident...

    Again, we can talk more about your  mis understanding of Biblical slavery after you can explain why owning a slave is wrong to begin with.

    Christian Believers have a basis to believe our moral Values. We receive the law and guidance from God. He provides a perfect moral law. One parts of that law is the death penalty for kidnapping someone and putting them into slavery.(like terrible American slavery)

    But again, I say to you... so what? On what basis can you claim Slavery is wrong? Murder? Eating children? Anything?


    Plaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited August 2019
    @antant42



    You say ......I must have missed the meeting where we all signed this contract. I don’t remember signing anything. There is no social contract. 


    My reply .....Your attempt at sarcasm is rather immature but a typical knee jerk reaction from most believers . 


    Let me help .....Social contract theorysays that people live together in society in accordance with an agreement that establishes moraland political rules of behavior. Some people believe that if we live according to a social contract, we can live morallyby our own choice and not because a divine being requires it.


    It works for us all mostly  unless of course Christians cannot tell right from wrong without consulting the Bible 



    You say....... You have provided no basis as to why you believe we should treat other as we wish to be treated. 


    My reply ......It’s pretty obvious in the statement itself why I treat others as I wish to be treated 


    You say .....Actually you borrow from the Bible to Justify yourself.  


    My reply ......I don’t the golden rule is a lot older than the Bible as a bit of research would demonstrate , also I never used the deeply immoral bible as a guide to morality quiet the opposite in fact.


    I justify myself to no one 


    You say ......What kind of social contract was signed when the world thought slavery was ok? 


    My reply .....I don’t know maybe ask god and Jesus as both totally approved of slavery and so did the majority of American plantation owners who claimed to be devout “Christians” 


    You say ......What about when Germany through the Holocaust was ok?


    My reply ......How am I responsible for the actions of others? Why not ask Hitler?


    You say .......I ask again, what is your basis to declare Slavery is wrong? Why was it wrong 100 years ago, 1000 years ago. 


    My reply ......It was right in gods time and he agreed owning people as property was fine , I find it abhorrent to own a human as property so for me slavery is wrong , what others do or think I cannot control nor do I care 


    You say .....Or are you saying that what is moral changes and there are not moral absolutes?


    My reply ......Morality changes and evolves with societies as we learn that certain things are not fair and just as in slavery , our morality will continue to evolve and change that’s a fact of life 


    You say .....You can not begin to condemn these believer without first a basis as to why slavery would be wrong. 


    My reply .....Of course I can condemn slavers  and slavery , I explained why I think it’s wrong 


    You say ......Again, we can talk more about your  mis understanding of Biblical slavery after you can explain why owning a slave is wrong to begin with.


    My reply .....I misunderstand nothing your denial of biblical slavery is ridiculous ......


    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)



    That’s plain enough for anyone but to  a Christian , the only way out of this is to spin a load of nonsense and denial 


    You say .......Christian Believers have a basis to believe our moral Values. 


    My reply ......If your basis is the Christian god i would  select a different source ,


    You say .....We receive the law and guidance from God. 


    My reply .....How does he let his will be known daily?


    You say ......He provides a perfect moral law. One parts of that law is the death penalty for kidnapping someone and putting them into slavery.(like terrible American slavery)


    My reply .....The god of the Bible disagrees with you 


    You say .......But again, I say to you... so what? On what basis can you claim Slavery is wrong? Murder? Eating children? Anything?


    My reply .....On the way I was brought up and treating others as I wish  to be treated that’s my basis and it works . If your god decides killing is right is it right ?


    You avoided answering why are you not a Scientologist or Muslim as they claim their books are the only true ones 


    You avoided answering if god decides killing is right is it right?

    Plaffelvohfen
  • antant42antant42 13 Pts   -  


    You Say..Your attempt at sarcasm is rather immature but a typical knee jerk reaction from most believers .

    Let me help .....Social contract theorysays that people live together in society in accordance with an agreement that establishes moraland political rules of behavior. Some people believe that if we live according to a social contract, we can live morallyby our own choice and not because a divine being requires it.

    It works for us all mostly  unless of course Christians cannot tell right from wrong without consulting the Bible 

    —-

    It is clearly NOT working 1 because there is no real social contract 2 do you consider government a social contract? 


    —-


    You say......It’s pretty obvious in the statement itself why I treat others as I wish to be treated 

    ——- 

    It is obvious why you value this but you basis on why others should commit to this same belief.  If a social contract is creat by the majority and by people who’s beliefs can change through time how is this golden rule belief some kind of moral absolute? Without a moral absolute how can you attack slave owner? How could you condemn Hittler? 

    ——

    You say .....Actually you borrow from the Bible to Justify yourself.  


    My reply ......I don’t the golden rule is a lot older than the Bible as a bit of research would demonstrate , also I never used the deeply immoral bible as a guide to morality quiet the opposite in fact.


    I justify myself to no one 

    ———

    You again demonstrate how you make moral decision but no basis at to why I should have to submit to your belief. 


    —-


    You say ......What kind of social contract was signed when the world thought slavery was ok? 


    My reply .....I don’t know maybe ask god and Jesus as both totally approved of slavery and so did the majority of American plantation owners who claimed to be devout “Christians” 

    ——

    Again I ask the question, so what?  Why should we be able to own slaves if I thought that it was ok? The social contract of the time said it was ok. So it must have been moral according to your worldview. If you can’t explain how a slave owner is breaking some kind of moral law than how can you argue the Bible is immoral? 


    You say ......What about when Germany through the Holocaust was ok?


    My reply ......How am I responsible for the actions of others? Why not ask Hitler?

    ——

    You are not responsible. But I am arguing that you world view has no basis to condemn a man that led one of the most despicable acts in world history. How can you support a world view that can not tell me why the holocaust was wrong? It is foolishness.

    Also, if you can not provide a basis to deny slavery or the holocaust that yes it makes sense to me why you would be ok with hundreds of thousand of children being murdered every year by planned parenthood. 


    You say .......I ask again, what is your basis to declare Slavery is wrong? Why was it wrong 100 years ago, 1000 years ago. 


    You say It was right in gods time and he agreed owning people as property was fine , I find it abhorrent to own a human as property so for me slavery is wrong , what others do or think I cannot control nor do I care 


    ——

    And again.. what if I feel it is ok to own them? Am I justified because I feel this way and I have the law on my side?

    —-

    You say....Morality changes and evolves with societies as we learn that certain things are not fair and just as in slavery , our morality will continue to evolve and change that’s a fact of life 

    —-

    Ok so Are you saying slavery was morally ok and today it is not because we have evolved? If it was ok that why do you condemn american slave owners and Biblical slave owners?

    You say .....You can not begin to condemn these believer without first a basis as to why slavery would be wrong. 


    You say Of course I can condemn slavers  and slavery , I explained why ..

    ——

    You did... with flawed reasoning see the other comments we need to cut a few branches off of this debate tree...

    You say ......Again, we can talk more about your  mis understanding of Biblical slavery after you can explain why owning a slave is wrong to begin with.


    My reply .....I misunderstand nothing your denial of biblical slavery is ridiculous ......

    —-

    Even know you mentioned it was moral at the time those slaves were used...

    —-

    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    —-

    So what? I repeat?



    That’s plain enough for anyone but to  a Christian , the only way out of this is to spin a load of nonsense and denial 

    —-

    I have done none such things as this. 


    You say .......Christian Believers have a basis to believe our moral Values. 


    My reply ......If your basis is the Christian god i would  select a different source ,

    ——

    You claim I need a different source... you have claimed you own personal feelings (you as god) or a social contract as your source so far. 

    Anyone can feel different from you and could justify themselves the same way. Social contracts do not present a basis for moral values that can be applied across all time. If you have another source let me know. 

    You say .....We receive the law and guidance from God. 


    You say....How does he let his will be known daily?

    ——

    Through the Bible, through the Holy Spirit.

    ——-

    You say ......He provides a perfect moral law. One parts of that law is the death penalty for kidnapping someone and putting them into slavery.(like terrible American slavery)


    My reply .....The god of the Bible disagrees with you

    ———

    No He does not, see Exodus 21:16

    Those people will be held accountable by God.

    —-

    I think that part from the Bible 


    You say .......But again, I say to you... so what? On what basis can you claim Slavery is wrong? Murder? Eating children? Anything?


    My reply .....On the way I was brought up and treating others as I wish  to be treated that’s my basis and it works . If your god decides killing is right is it right ?

    ——

    Yes it would be.

    But that is an impossibility the laws and guidance given to us is because they represent the nature of who God is. And He is good. He is also Just and has killed and commanded killing in many situations according to his Will. And also you present the same flawed argument that demands nothing from me. You provide no reason why I should have to value you or answer back to you.


    —-

    You avoided answering why are you not a Scientologist or Muslim as they claim their books are the only true ones 

    —-

    I am already certain I have found the truth. Though reading and learning are beneficial. There is no reason I should have to consider other religions. There is always more to learn about Christianity.

    You avoided answering if god decides killing is right is it right?



    Lastly... unborn children have the same chemistry as an adult with 3 differences. Size, development, and reliance on the mother. This is at conception. This is a separate people and he/she has natural rights that should not be infringed. It is murder to kill these children and the people involved in the murders should be held accountable.


    Thank you for you commitment in debating with me. There is still time for you to accept Jesus and repent. You know the truth because it is wired inside of you.

    @Dee
    Plaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @antant42


    You say ......It is clearly NOT working 1 because there is no real social contract 2 do you consider government a social contract? 


    My reply .....It works fine for most tell me how is Christian morality doing any better ? 


    Government as a body that depends on who’s in power and how they use it 



    You say ......It is obvious why you value this but you basis on why others should commit to this same belief.  


    My reply .....I never asked others to commit to my exact code of morality but broadly speaking most do as in follow the golden rule 


    You say .....If a social contract is creat by the majority and by people who’s beliefs can change through time how is this golden rule belief some kind of moral absolute?


    My reply .....Beliefs do change through time and that includes Christian beliefs when did god appear to tell Christians homosexuality was ok and when did he appear to say slavery was immoral 


     You say ......Without a moral absolute how can you attack slave owner? How could you condemn Hittler? 


    My reply .....I don’t believe in moral absolutes , you do it appears , so tell me if a man was about to push a button to wipe out mankind and you had the power to kill him with one shot would you do it? 


    Moral absolutism states killing is always wrong no matter the circumstances you agree 


    You say .....You again demonstrate how you make moral decision but no basis at to why I should have to submit to your belief. 


    My reply ......I never asked you to submit to any of my beliefs did I?


    How do you daily make moral decisions?


    You say ......Again I ask the question, so what?  Why should we be able to own slaves if I thought that it was ok? The social contract of the time said it was ok. So it must have been moral according to your worldview. 


    My reply .....You seem to think a social contract is something we agree on in totality it’s not but broadly speaking we do , slavery goes against such as it deviates from the golden rule , societies differ regards morality look at some Muslim countries where punishments of apostates is seen as normal.


    You say ......If you can’t explain how a slave owner is breaking some kind of moral law than how can you argue the Bible is immoral? 


    My reply ......A biblical slave owner was breaking no law according to them and approved by you and god , I hold myself to a higher moral standard as in I do believe owning others as property is morally correct .


    You need a holy book to justify why it is 



    You say ......You are not responsible. But I am arguing that you world view has no basis to condemn a man that led one of the most despicable acts in world history.


    My reply .....By you totally ignoring what I keep stating as in I treat others as I wish to be treated myself makes you look foolish.


    I tell children not to hit someone with a stick as they  wouldn't like someone hitting them with a stick, then why would they go around hitting someone else with one? It's not a terribly difficult concept to understand, even for children


    I don’t drive my car at 100 miles an hour as I’m aware of how it could effect other people , I give to charity because I wish to help other people etc , etc , 


    Indeed when I look around at the world today, I see a direct correlation between the people committing the worst atrocities against humanity, and religion.


     You say ......How can you support a world view that can not tell me why the holocaust was wrong? It is foolishness.


    My reply .....But I don’t support it , I keep telling you why such things are wrong but you still don’t get it .


    How can you worship a god that sat on high and watched infants , women and men getting gassed ?


    You say .....Also, if you can not provide a basis to deny slavery or the holocaust that yes it makes sense to me why you would be ok with hundreds of thousand of children being murdered every year by planned parenthood. 


    My reply ......I keep giving you my reasoning you keep ignoring it .


    The holocaust and now abortion,  oh dear , I’m all for a woman’s right to choice you’re all for a denial of woman’s rights and believe child birth against a woman’s will is moral 



    You say .......I ask again, what is your basis to declare Slavery is wrong? Why was it wrong 100 years ago, 1000 years ago. 


    My reply .....Stupidly ignoring what I’ve answered 21 times now demonstrates you’re trolling 


    And again.. what if I feel it is ok to own them? Am I justified because I feel this way and I have the law on my side?


    My reply .....No you’re not justified in enslaving one of my family even if the law is on your side , I know you have the Bible on your side but hey there you go 


    You say ......Ok so Are you saying slavery was morally ok and today it is not because we have evolved? 


    My reply .....No I never  said  that , Christians following the Bible did you’re one of them yet you’re asking me why when it’s a question you should be answering , you been caught in your own trap accusing me of a position I never held but your god did 


    You say ......If it was ok that why do you condemn american slave owners and Biblical slave owners?


    My reply .....It wasn’t ok then I never said that,  the Bible did American Christian slave owners were following the Bible so the question you’re asking you should be answering as in why did god say it was ok and then it wasn’t ok 

    You say .....You can not begin to condemn these believer without first a basis as to why slavery would be wrong. 



    You did... with flawed reasoning see the other comments we need to cut a few branches off of this debate tree...


    My reply .....The only flawed reasoning is you stupidly asking me why slavery was right ( something I never claimed)  but the Bible and god did and you cannot justify this 


    You say ......Again, we can talk more about your  mis understanding of Biblical slavery after you can explain why owning a slave is wrong to begin with.


    My reply .....24 times now I’ve explained 



    You say ......Even know you mentioned it was moral at the time those slaves were used...


    My reply ....I never said slavery was moral


    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    No response to this verse?


    You say .....I have done none such things as this. 


    My reply .....What is your response to the verse?



    You say ......You claim I need a different source... you have claimed you own personal feelings (you as god) or a social contract as your source so far. 

    Anyone can feel different from you and could justify themselves the same way. 


    My reply ...Yes , Muslim societies do , Hindus do , Rastafarians do so what?


    You say ....Social contracts do not present a basis for moral values that can be applied across all time. 


    My reply .....Morality changes and evolves across all times and cultures this is a fact so your point is invalid 



    You say .......Through the Bible, 


    My reply ....Right ....


    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    You say ......through the Holy Spirit.


    My reply .....Through a ....spirit .......oh dear 


    You say .......No He does not, see Exodus 21:16

    Those people will be held accountable by God.


    My reply .....So you take another part of the Bible to contradict the ....bible ...


    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    Oh dear , you still have not offered a defence of this bible verse why’s that?



    You say .....Yes it would be.


    My reply .....So killing at the moment is wrong because you have gods morality to say so but you admit if god deemed killing correct it would be , this makes you morally bankrupt as you follow a tyrant who’s morality is arbitrary 



    You say .....But that is an impossibility the laws and guidance given to us is because they represent the nature of who God is. 


    My reply .....Impossibility, so your god is not all powerful and you know his mind Wow!


    You say if god says killing is right it’s right , if god asked you to  kill your son as a sacrifice to him you admit you would gladly do it that makes you a lunatic


    You say .....And He is good. He is also Just and has killed and commanded killing in many situations according to his Will. 


    My reply .....The god you worship is an evil god 


    You say ......And also you present the same flawed argument that demands nothing from me. 


    My reply .....I know I demanded nothing from you and that’s flawed because I should have demanded something from you ??? Are you insane?


    You say ........You provide no reason why I should have to value you or answer back to you.


    My reply .......I don’t need nor want you to value me I couldn’t give a flying fig



    You say ..I am already certain I have found the truth. Though reading and learning are beneficial. There is no reason I should have to consider other religions. There is always more to learn about Christianity.


    My reply .....Nothing like a closed mind 


    You say ......Lastly... unborn children have the same chemistry as an adult with 3 differences. Size, development, and reliance on the mother. This is at conception. This is a separate people and he/she has natural rights that should not be infringed. It is murder to kill these children and the people involved in the murders should be held accountable.


    My reply .....Tell it to your preacher I’m not interested in your personal opinion on abortion nor did I ask you to preach to me about it did I?


    You say ......Thank you for you commitment in debating with me. There is still time for you to accept Jesus and repent. You know the truth because it is wired inside of you.


    My reply ......I did not ask you for a sermon from the pulpit why would I repent to  an evil fictitious character that approves of slavery and watches children getting gassed by Germans?

    Plaffelvohfen
  • all4acttall4actt 305 Pts   -  
    How did this become a battle of abortion rights?

    If you read Title X it does not allow for payments of abortion. It simply gives grants to help support organizations that provide women with femal health issues.  It also does not pay for a womens prenatal care or after birth care.  It specifically states these exclusions.

    So although I don't specifically support planned parenthood since they have made their practice so much about abortion but I do support Title X.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @all4actt

    I never brought it up, it seems he has another agenda in mind 
  • antant42antant42 13 Pts   -  
    I was under  Dee the impression that this debate was centered around planned parenthood and title x. President Trump issued an order banning the referral Of patients to doctors for abortions. This is if they are being funded by title X. Because planned parenthood gets some funding from titlex they are considering to stop accepting funds because of this.  Planned parenthood provides care but since murdering children is absolutely immoral they are a bad organization. They should not receive any funding ever with tax payer dollars for anything they do until they stop killing children.

    @all4actt
  • antant42antant42 13 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    I am cutting some of the chat down much of it it repedative. 



    You say ......It is obvious why you value this but you basis on why others should commit to this same belief.  


    You say..I never asked others to commit to my exact code of morality but broadly speaking most do as in follow the golden rule 


    —-

    See further down

    —-


    You say .....Beliefs do change through time and that includes Christian beliefs when did god appear to tell Christians homosexuality was ok and when did he appear to say slavery was immoral 


    ——

    God and his moral laws and values do not change. All his laws stem from loving God and loving your neighbor. How we go about loving our neighbor changes but God still holds the same values. Homosexuality never became ok. There were laws against kidnapping and enslaving. Slavery was around as a different institution. It did not exist in Israel as it did in the Americas.


    You say your not condemning others to follow your beliefs as you debate that the Bible is immoral because slavery is immoral. (You are literally do this as you type right now.)

    You don’t believe in Moral absolutes? That you have no basis to say rape, murder, or slavery is wrong. 

    If what is ethical is subjective that it does not matter what you believe you have no objective law to tell me to not own a slave if I think or feel it is good. Or have a government tell me I am allowed to. 

    Are you a materialist? Believe Darwinian evolution?  Who cares about morality of all we are are evolved pond scum and our brains are nothing but chemical Philz. 



    You say...I don’t believe in moral absolutes , you do it appears , so tell me if a man was about to push a button to wipe out mankind and you had the power to kill him with one shot would you do it? 


    Moral absolutism states killing is always wrong no matter the circumstances you agree 

    Exodus 22:2-3 mentions that it is ok to Kill in self defense. Or if it is thought that you or your household is in danger. It would be ok to kill the person. Yes I would try to if it were impossible to stop him another way.



    You say .....You again demonstrate how you make moral decision but no basis at to why I should have to submit to your belief. 


    My reply (YOU SAY)......I never asked you to submit to any of my beliefs did I?


    You are literally doing this right now why debating that slavery is immoral. I make moral decision based on Gods truth an laws in the Bible.


    How do you daily make moral decisions?


    You say ......Again I ask the question, so what?  Why should we be able to own slaves if I thought that it was ok? The social contract of the time said it was ok. So it must have been moral according to your worldview. 


    You say .....You seem to think a social contract is something we agree on in totality it’s not but broadly speaking we do , slavery goes against such as it deviates from the golden rule , societies differ regards morality look at some Muslim countries where punishments of apostates is seen as normal.


    A contract by nature is something agreed upon. The Muslims are wrong for different reason but atleast they can claim moral absolute. Again, you have said you don’t care what other do and there are no moral absolutes so you have no basis for claiming  anyone ever doing something wrong. Also without absolutes you have not basis for science, mathematics, or logic. 


    You say ......If you can’t explain how a slave owner is breaking some kind of moral law than how can you argue the Bible is immoral? 


    My reply ......A biblical slave owner was breaking no law according to them and approved by you and god , I hold myself to a higher moral standard as in I do believe owning others as property is morally correct .

    Ok and what if I believe owning a slave is ok? You have mentioned there are no moral absolutes. Again please use your own worldview .


    You need a holy book to justify why it is 


    Yes



    You say ......You are not responsible. But I am arguing that you world view has no basis to condemn a man that led one of the most despicable acts in world history.


    My reply .....(YOU SAY)By you totally ignoring what I keep stating as in I treat others as I wish to be treated myself makes you look foolish.

    —-

    Are there objective laws of logic?



    I tell children not to hit someone with a stick as they  wouldn't like someone hitting them with a stick, then why would they go around hitting someone else with one? It's not a terribly difficult concept to understand, even for children


    I don’t drive my car at 100 miles an hour as I’m aware of how it could effect other people , I give to charity because I wish to help other people etc , etc , 


    Indeed when I look around at the world today, I see a direct correlation between the people committing the worst atrocities against humanity, and religion.

    ——- 

    AGAIN 

    No where have I said that you can not behave ethically or morally. I have said you have no basis to tell other to act in the same way you believe , in which you said you don’t want to push your beliefs on others while continuing to engage with me in debate.

     You say ......How can you support a world view that can not tell me why the holocaust was wrong? It is foolishness.


    My reply .....But I don’t support it , I keep telling you why such things are wrong but you still don’t get it .

    —— you have told me why YOU think they are wrong. But since you don’t believe in moral absolutes you have no basis to say the holocaust was wrong. Hitler FELT like it was right. George Lucas THOUGHT he was right when he made Star Wars episode 1...


    How can you worship a god that sat on high and watched infants , women and men getting gassed ?

    ——

    Again... do you think these things are objectively, absolutely wrong?  Given your worldview.. so what if children get gassed the government did this legally. There is no moral law against it.


    You say .....Also, if you can not provide a basis to deny slavery or the holocaust that yes it makes sense to me why you would be ok with hundreds of thousand of children being murdered every year by planned parenthood. 


    My reply ......I keep giving you my reasoning you keep ignoring it .


    ——

    It is foolish reasoning. Can you be certain 100% that killing children is wrong?


    The holocaust and now abortion,  oh dear , I’m all for a woman’s right to choice you’re all for a denial of woman’s rights and believe child birth against a woman’s will is moral 

    ——

    I am for woman’s rights too that’s why I don’t think we should murder them.

    ——


    You say .......I ask again, what is your basis to declare Slavery is wrong? Why was it wrong 100 years ago, 1000 years ago. 


    My reply .....Stupidly ignoring what I’ve answered 21 times now demonstrates you’re trolling 

    ———

    Yes you have! You have said you have NO basis when you admitted to no moral absolutes.

    And again.. what if I feel it is ok to own them? Am I justified because I feel this way and I have the law on my side?


    You say .....No you’re not justified in enslaving one of my family even if the law is on your side , I know you have the Bible on your side but hey there you go 


    ———

    Why? This is contradicts when you said there’s is no absolute moral law. You already said morality changes. If is subjective and it is if there is no outside governing law than I AM justified to do whatever I want.


    You say ......Ok so Are you saying slavery was morally ok and today it is not because we have evolved? 


    My reply .....No I never  said  that , Christians following the Bible did you’re one of them yet you’re asking me why when it’s a question you should be answering , you been caught in your own trap accusing me of a position I never held but your god did 

    —— 

    See my other responses


    You say ......If it was ok that why do you condemn american slave owners and Biblical slave owners?


    You say..It wasn’t ok then I never said that,  the Bible did American Christian slave owners were following the Bible so the question you’re asking you should be answering as in why did god say it was ok and then it wasn’t ok 

    ——

    Slavery was more regulated by God than commanded. kidnapping and enslaving is punishable by death which I already quoted. Slavery in the Bible was voluntary usually when people had not money or could not repay a debt. Completely different than the slave trade of the 16th to 19th century. In fact Nearly everywhere slavery was abolished the Bible was used. Yes there were “Christians” who owned slaves. They gave a purposely distorted version of the Bible to their slaves. They will be held accountable for this.



    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    No response to this verse?

    Seems clear to me, murder was illegal so if you beat your slave to death you get punished but if he dies a few days later than murder was not the intent. Since the slave was their property there is no punishment. The owner is seen to be at a loss here.  This is punishment that allowable if the servant did something very wrong. 





    You say ......You claim I need a different source... you have claimed you own personal feelings (you as god) or a social contract as your source so far. 

    Anyone can feel different from you and could justify themselves the same way. 


    My reply ...Yes , Mus

    Accidentally deleted what you said here. Actually all these groups justify themselfs (though incorrectly) from revelation from God or gods. They all no matter how foolish can provide some kind of basis which you have admitted you can not when you said that no moral absolutes exist.

    You say ....Social contracts do not present a basis for moral values that can be applied across all time. 


    My reply .....Morality changes and evolves across all times and cultures this is a fact so your point is invalid 

    ——-

    We have been over this already, this is the exact reason why you position is foolishness. You can’t says then and then also claim that slavery is absolutely wrong.



    You say .......Through the Bible, 


    My reply ....Right ....


    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    You say ......through the Holy Spirit.


    My reply .....Through a ....spirit .......oh dear 


    You say .......No He does not, see Exodus 21:16

    Those people will be held accountable by God.


    My reply .....So you take another part of the Bible to contradict the ....bible ...


    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


    Oh dear , you still have not offered a defence of this bible verse why’s that?



    You say .....Yes it would be.


    My reply .....So killing at the moment is wrong because you have gods morality to say so but you admit if god deemed killing correct it would be , this makes you morally bankrupt as you follow a tyrant who’s morality is arbitrary 



    You say .....But that is an impossibility the laws and guidance given to us is because they represent the nature of who God is. 


    My reply .....Impossibility, so your god is not all powerful and you know his mind Wow!


    You say if god says killing is right it’s right , if god asked you to  kill your son as a sacrifice to him you admit you would gladly do it that makes you a lunatic


    You say .....And He is good. He is also Just and has killed and commanded killing in many situations according to his Will. 


    My reply .....The god you worship is an evil god 


    You say ......And also you present the same flawed argument that demands nothing from me. 


    My reply .....I know I demanded nothing from you and that’s flawed because I should have demanded something from you ??? Are you insane?


    You say ........You provide no reason why I should have to value you or answer back to you.


    My reply .......I don’t need nor want you to value me I couldn’t give a flying fig



    You say ..I am already certain I have found the truth. Though reading and learning are beneficial. There is no reason I should have to consider other religions. There is always more to learn about Christianity.


    My reply .....Nothing like a closed mind 


    You say ......Lastly... unborn children have the same chemistry as an adult with 3 differences. Size, development, and reliance on the mother. This is at conception. This is a separate people and he/she has natural rights that should not be infringed. It is murder to kill these children and the people involved in the murders should be held accountable.


    My reply .....Tell it to your preacher I’m not interested in your personal opinion on abortion nor did I ask you to preach to me about it did I?

    —- you are not interested in science? 


    You say ......Thank you for you commitment in debating with me. There is still time for you to accept Jesus and repent. You know the truth because it is wired inside of you.


    My reply ......I did not ask you for a sermon from the pulpit why would I repent to  an evil fictitious character that approves of slavery and watches children getting gassed by Germans?



  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @antant42

    You say .....I am cutting some of the chat down much of it it repedative. 


    My reply .....Yet you keep repeating the same point I’ve answered over 30 times now 




    You say ......God and his moral laws and values do not change. 


    My reply .....So you say so you fully support sex slavery as god approved, also why do you ignore most of gods moral laws as in why do you wear cotton?


    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


    You say .....All his laws stem from loving God and loving your neighbor. 


    My reply ......indeed ..........


    New American Standard Bible 

    How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.


    Loving god ?


    You say .....How we go about loving our neighbor changes but God still holds the same values. 


    My reply .....Yes gods values as in sanctioning the slaughter of babies .....



    15 One day Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel. Now listen to his message. 2 The Lord All-Powerful says: ‘When the Israelites came out of Egypt, the Amalekites tried to stop them from going to Canaan. I saw what the Amalekites did. 3 Now go fight against the Amalekites. You must completely destroy the Amalekites and everything that belongs to them. Don’t let anything live; you must kill all the men and women and all of their children and little babies. You must kill all of their cattle and sheep and all of their camels and donkeys.’”


    You say ......Homosexuality never became ok. 


    My reply .....Millions of Christians disagree with your opinion 


    You say ......There were laws against kidnapping and enslaving. 


    My reply .....There were laws regarding enslaving others sanctioned by god and Jesus you admit this and then deny it make your mind up , or read your Bible it’s all there in black and white 


    You say .......Slavery was around as a different institution. It did not exist in Israel as it did in the Americas.


    My reply ......Right , so selling your daughter because she is your property is “different “?



    You say .......You don’t believe in Moral absolutes? That you have no basis to say rape, murder, or slavery is wrong. 


    My reply ......Of course I do my “basis “ is the golden rule nothing else is required 


    You say ......If what is ethical is subjective that it does not matter what you believe you have no objective law to tell me to not own a slave if I think or feel it is good. 


    My reply ......Of course it matters what I believe I don’t need an “objective law” to decide enslaving another is wrong as it violates the golden rule 


    You say .....Or have a government tell me I am allowed to. 


    My reply .....Enslave a citizen of my country and the government will let you know quick enough 



    You say ......Are you a materialist? 


    My reply .....I don’t label myself 


    You say ......Believe Darwinian evolution?  


    My reply ......Evolution is fact 


    You say .......Who cares about morality of all we are are evolved pond scum and our brains are nothing but chemical Philz. 


    My reply ......Well I care as do millions of Atheists , you seem to think Christians hold the moral upper hand while the opposite is quiet true , American Christians firmly believe Jesus would agree carrying a gun is ok , would be against Universal health care , paying social welfare , free housing for the homeless.





    You say ......Exodus 22:2-3 mentions that it is ok to Kill in self defense. Or if it is thought that you or your household is in danger. It would be ok to kill the person. Yes I would try to if it were impossible to stop him another way.


    My reply .....Then it’s not an absolute so your argument is void .


    An example is murder, which is always considered as morallywrong even if it was done in self-defense or for protection.


    You don’t seem to know what a moral absolute is so can you provide an example that’s absolute?




    You say .......You are literally doing this right now why debating that slavery is immoral. I make moral decision based on Gods truth an laws in the Bible.


    My reply .....Oh right only a Christian can say what’s right or wrong , gods “truths “ approve of slavery 




    You say .....A contract by nature is something agreed upon. 


    My reply .....A contract agreed upon by all? I said broadly speaking 


    You say .....The Muslims are wrong for different reason but atleast they can claim moral absolute. 


    My reply ......They say you are wrong , and if they have moral absolutes on their side how come your absolutes are superior? 


    So you’re admitting moral absolutes are subjective 


    You say .......Also without absolutes you have not basis for science, mathematics, or logic. 


    My reply ....What has logic and maths got to do with our subjective views on morality?


    You say ......If you can’t explain how a slave owner is breaking some kind of moral law than how can you argue the Bible is immoral? 



    You say ......Are there objective laws of logic?


    My reply .....Objective and subjective are not terms of logic and this has nothing to do with morality 



    You say .....No where have I said that you can not behave ethically or morally. I have said you have no basis to tell other to act in the same way you believe , in which you said you don’t want to push your beliefs on others while continuing to engage with me in debate.


    My reply ......Right so according to you I cannot tell my children how to behave and how am I “pushing my beliefs “ onto you this is a debate site if you don’t want my opinion don’t ask for it.


    Why should I obey or listen to your god? Commands do not generate moral obligations .


    You admitted killing would be right if god says so as you do not know whether it’s right or wrong unless god decides , so you would sacrifice a child to god if he asked wouldn’t you?



     You say .....you have told me why YOU think they are wrong. But since you don’t believe in moral absolutes you have no basis to say the holocaust was wrong. 


    My reply ....You do not believe in moral absolutes as you cannot give even one concrete example , you also admit Christian absolutes are superior to Muslim one’s so Muslim ones are not absolute yet you claimed otherwise 


    You say ......Hitler FELT like it was right. George Lucas THOUGHT he was right when he made Star Wars episode 1...


    My reply .....It’s shocking you need god to tell you the difference 



    You say .......Again... do you think these things are objectively, absolutely wrong?  

    Given your worldview.. 


    My reply .....The golden rule I live by .......Treat others as you would like others to treat you ......


    Watch as you ignore yet again 


    You say .....so what if children get gassed the government did this legally. There is no moral law against it.


    My reply .....Treat others as you would like others to treat you 


    You say ......It is foolish reasoning. Can you be certain 100% that killing children is wrong?


    My reply .....Your foolishness is irritating.....Treat others as you would like others to treat you 




    You say ......I am for woman’s rights too that’s why I don’t think we should murder them.


    My reply .....Don’t do it then 


    You say .......I ask again, what is your basis to declare Slavery is wrong? Why was it wrong 100 years ago, 1000 years ago. 


    My reply ......Treat others as you would like others to treat you 



    You say ......Yes you have! You have said you have NO basis when you admitted to no moral absolutes.


    My reply .....You cannot give an example of a moral absolute. My “basis” remains .......Treat others as you would like others to treat you 


    Watch as you ignore yet again 



    You say ......And again.. what if I feel it is ok to own them? Am I justified because I feel this way and I have the law on my side?


    My reply .....Watch as you ignore yet again .....Treat others as you would like others to treat you 


    You say .....Why? 


    My reply ......Watch as you ignore yet again ......Treat others as you would like others to treat you 


    You say ....This is contradicts when you said there’s is no absolute moral law. 


    My reply .....You said killing was a moral absolute but then said in certain cases it was fine hows that a moral absolute?


    You say .......You already said morality changes. If is subjective and it is if there is no outside governing law than I AM justified to do whatever I want.


    My reply .....Not within my basis watch as you ignore yet again ......Treat others as you would like others to treat you 




    You say ......See my other responses


    My reply .....They avoid answering what I asked 



    You say........Slavery was more regulated by God than commanded. 


    My reply .....Right , owing people as property is fine if it’s regulated ....oh dear 


    You say .....kidnapping and enslaving is punishable by death which I already quoted. 


    My reply.......But you’ve just admitted if regulated it’s fine , caught again 


    You say .......Slavery in the Bible was voluntary usually when people had not money or could not repay a debt.


    My reply ....So a man selling his daughter is “voluntary?.....


    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


     You say ......Completely different than the slave trade of the 16th to 19th century. In fact Nearly everywhere slavery was abolished the Bible was used. 


    My reply .....How is selling your daughter “different “?


    The Bible was used to justify slavery 


    You say ......Yes there were “Christians” who owned slaves. They gave a purposely distorted version of the Bible to their slaves. They will be held accountable for this.


    My reply .....Yet you admit it’s fine if it’s regulated , make your mind up



    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)



    You say ......Seems clear to me, murder was illegal so if you beat your slave to death you get punished but if he dies a few days later than murder was not the intent. Since the slave was their property there is no punishment. 


    My reply .....There you go again admitting it’s fine to own people as property and beat them once they don’t die ......oh dear 


    You say .....The owner is seen to be at a loss here.  This is punishment that allowable if the servant did something very wrong. 


    My reply .....Yes so buying and owning a human and beating them half to death is fine , and you ask why I’m not a “Christian “ ......my oh my 



    You say .....Anyone can feel different from you and could justify themselves the same way. 


    My reply ......Yes , you’re doing it now 



    You say .......Accidentally deleted what you said here. Actually all these groups justify themselfs (though incorrectly) from revelation from God or gods. 


    My reply .....How are they wrong and you right?


    You say .....They all no matter how foolish can provide some kind of basis which you have admitted you can not when you said that no moral absolutes exist.


    My reply .....Yes like flying planes into skyscrapers or in your case agreeing with slavery 



    You say .....We have been over this already, this is the exact reason why you position is foolishness. 


    My reply .....But yet you think beating a slave is fine there’s only one fool here


    You say .......You can’t says then and then also claim that slavery is absolutely wrong


    You say .....you are not interested in science? 


    My reply ....What are you on about?


    Why did your god watch infants and women getting gassed and do nothing but watch from afar , can he not do anything ? Or ....can he not be bothered?

  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @antant42

    Remember not to mock bald men as god disapproves what would you do without his loving moral commands ......

    23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!” 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number. 25 And he went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria. 


  • antant42antant42 13 Pts   -  
    Our chat is too long I do not have hour and hours to keep exponentially growing this thing. My whole argument boils down to 1 thing mainly.

    YOU PROVIDE NO BASIS FOR WHY ANYONE SHOULD HAVE MORALITY.  You say you feel the golden rule is good. Great.

    That is a moral absolute I Believe. 


    31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:31)


    18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord (Leviticus 19:18)

    Love your neighbor as yourself. Pretty similar to the golden rule.  I have a basis to go back in time and tell Hitler that killing is wrong. I believe in an absolute governing moral law that He should be loving his neighbor and not killing them.

    You live by the golden rule. But if you were to go back in time and speak to Hitler and say “you should follow the golden rule because what your doing is unjust” you have no basis to justify your request. He could simply say “I live by the rule ,Kill your neighbor. I feel equally justified to believe this as you do believing the contrary.” 

    Evolution is not a fact first of all it is just as foolish as your other arguments. You believe we are nothing but evolved pond scum. You can not hold pond scum accountable for killing other pond scum, that would be foolish.

    If you don’t want a slave don’t own one.

    @Dee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited August 2019
    @antant42


    You say .......YOU PROVIDE NO BASIS FOR WHY ANYONE SHOULD HAVE MORALITY.  You say you feel the golden rule is good. Great.


    My reply ......I do as in the golden rule that’s my basis 


    You say .......That is a moral absolute I Believe. 


    My reply ......It’s not according to you you said killing is wrong because god says so you also said killing is right if god says so , how then are they absolutes 



    You say .....31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:31)


    My reply .....So your neighbor is a convicted child molester and you love him as yourself? You say some very things 



    You say .......18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord (Leviticus 19:18)


    My reply ......So your own son kills your entire family and you hold no grudge? More biblical stupidity 


    You say .......Love your neighbor as yourself. 


    My reply .....But I don’t love my neighbor as myself nor do you 


    You say ......Pretty similar to the golden rule.  


    My reply .....It’s not it’s totally different 


    You say ......I have a basis to go back in time and tell Hitler that killing is wrong. 


    My reply ......So do I He would tell me to f..k off and you also , what’s your point?


    You say ......I believe in an absolute governing moral law that He should be loving his neighbor and not killing them.


    My reply .....I know you keep saying but the god you worship is evil 


    You say .......You live by the golden rule. But if you were to go back in time and speak to Hitler and say “you should follow the golden rule because what your doing is unjust” you have no basis to justify your request. He could simply say “I live by the rule ,Kill your neighbor. I feel equally justified to believe this as you do believing the contrary.” 


    My reply ......Right , so if you said to Hitler “killing is wrong because god says so “ he would stop  killing ....oh dear 


    You say ......Evolution is not a fact


    My reply .....It is and accepted as such by intelligent people which leaves you out along with a tiny minority of religious nuts 


     You say ....first of all it is just as foolish as your other arguments. 


    My reply .....This coming from a bible thumping clown is hilarious 


    You say ....You believe we are nothing but evolved pond scum. You can not hold pond scum accountable for killing other pond scum, that would be foolish.


    My reply ....Right thanks for the heads up regards pond scum I will try not to judge the next piece of scum I see in a pond 


    You say .....If you don’t want a slave don’t own one.


    My reply .....I don’t want one but you do go ahead Jesus and god agree with owning people as property 

  • all4acttall4actt 305 Pts   -  
    Again the thread of conversation has gone off topic.

    I thought this was a debate about Title X.

    Please read about Title X and then give your arguments for or against.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

DebateIsland.com

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
© 2023 DebateIsland.com, all rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Terms of Service

Get In Touch