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Is Jesus the only Way to be saved?
in Religion

By YeshuaRedeemedYeshuaRedeemed 513 Pts edited July 17
Answer: “I am the way and the truth and the life” is one of the seven “I Am” statements of Jesus. On the last night before His betrayal and death, Jesus was preparing His disciples for the days ahead. For over three years, these men had been following Jesus and learning from His teaching and example. They had placed their hopes in Him as the Messiah, the promised deliverer, yet they still didn’t understand how He was going to accomplish that deliverance. After the Last Supper, Jesus began speaking about His departure, which led to questions from His disciples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eSNW8WBHr4
https://www.gotquestions.org/way-truth-life.html
Question: "What did Jesus mean when He said, 'I am the way and the truth and the life' (John 14:6)?"

JesusisGod777888



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  • It's sad no one commented. Yes, Jesus IS the only way to be saved.

    1.religion stems from the word religio, meaning : deep contemplation or thought. God is not a thought as 

    2. God is a person.

    Religion, fundamentally lacks these statements.

    1. God says
    2. God is
    3. God appeared

    Additionally , all religions collectively do not state having ever met God.

    This is a problem.

    Single common cause of human life determines a single God.

    Polytheism is fallacy for obvious reasons.

    I'm writing a book so I won't go into too much detail.

    Simply put, religion as the result of thoughts do not relate to a person.

    Jesus is God for a simply obvious reason, he came in the flesh and proved he was.

    Beilief is charecterized as thoughts

    Reality is charecterized by something that actually happened.

    All religions lack a historical context because they do not relate to to.

    1. Creation
    2. God's actions or interactions with people
    3. The eventually end. 

    People, do not know these things because they are not God. Religion being the result of thoughts excludes all of what is real.

    The terms in religion are abstracted.

    No religion has ever demonstrated anything because it does not relate to God, this is why religion is ignored and Jesus IS the only legitimate God of the universe.

    As a side not and I don't mean to come off as rude, I wish to be humble as Jesus the God of creation is watching, please whenever posting about Jesus you have no reason to worry or post it as a religious subject. Jesus is God rest assured the Lord is real.
    PlaffelvohfenKdCuberZeusAres42LogicalThinkerAlofRIseanyvillesmoothieHappy_Killbot
  • KdCuberKdCuber 70 Pts
    edited September 1
    No religion has ever demonstrated anything because it does not relate to God, this is why religion is ignored and Jesus IS the only legitimate God of the universe.

    You sure buddy that your Christian god exists? Also, I remember in one of your posts you said that evolution is false, so you believe in creationism? 

    Firstly, here are some questions for you creationists:

    -There is no need of a god, the universe  simply started from a chain reaction of universes collapsing into a space-time

    singularity and then re-expanding due to entropy.

    - Assume the previous point is false. Who created god? Can god exist in a dimension where space and time don't exist?

    - At CERN, physicists were able to create anti-matter using enormous amounts of energy (around 30 Billion kW to create 1 nanogram). How does God get the energy to create the ENTIRE UNIVERSE?

    - Why does God look human? For all we know there may be so many other living species spread throughout the universe, so why does God, which is their creator as well, look coincidentally like us?

    -The Earth isn't 6000 years old, there are literally cave paintings that are 5 times older.

    -Beauty lies in simplicity. Why would God create such complex creatures? For example, why do we have 10 fingers, and not 12 (arithmetics is much easier in base 12).

    - Fossil records show that evolution is a FACT.

    Now, here comes the explanation disproving the probability argument that creationists love so much. If you're not a biochemist (why are you even arguing about something you barely know about), then I suggest reading just the part about tossing coins onwards.

    If you're too lazy to read the explanation, read the final conclusion, since it's pretty important.

    Having said that, all the calculations saying that the probabiblity of a protein forming is around (1/20)^300 are flawed, they include mistakes:

    1) They calculate the probability of the formation of a "modern" protein, or even a complete bacterium with all "modern" proteins, by random events. This is not the abiogenesis theory at all.

    2) They assume that there is a fixed number of proteins, with fixed sequences for each protein, that are required for life.

    3) They calculate the probability of sequential trials, rather than simultaneous trials.

    4) They misunderstand what is meant by a probability calculation.

    5) They seriously underestimate the number of functional enzymes/ribozymes present in a group of random sequences.

    So the calculation goes that the probability of forming a given 300 amino acid long protein (say an enzyme like carboxypeptidase) randomly is (1/20)300 or 1 chance in 2.04 x 10390, which is astoundingly, mind-beggaringly improbable. This is then cranked up by adding on the probabilities of generating 400 or so similar enzymes until a figure is reached that is so huge that merely contemplating it causes your brain to dribble out your ears. This gives the impression that the formation of even the smallest organism seems totally impossible. However, this is completely incorrect.

    Firstly, the formation of biological polymers from monomers is a function of the laws of chemistry and biochemistry, and these are decidedly not random.

    Secondly, the entire premise is incorrect to start off with, because in modern abiogenesis theories the first "living things" would be much simpler, not even a protobacteria, or a preprotobacteria (what Oparin called a protobiont and Woese calls a progenote ), but one or more simple molecules probably not more than 30-40 subunits long. These simple molecules then slowly evolved into more cooperative self-replicating systems, then finally into simple organisms. The first "living things" could have been a single self replicating molecule, similar to the "self-replicating" peptide from the Ghadiri group, or the self replicating hexanucleotide, or possibly an RNA polymerase that acts on itself .

    Another view is the first self-replicators were groups of catalysts, either protein enzymes or RNA ribozymes, that regenerated themselves as a catalytic cycle . An example is the SunY three subunit self-replicator . These catalytic cycles could be limited in a small pond or lagoon, or be a catalytic complex adsorbed to either clay or lipid material on clay. Given that there are many catalytic sequences in a group of random peptides or polynucleotides (see below) it's not unlikely that a small catalytic complex could be formed.

    These two models are not mutually exclusive. The Ghadiri peptide can mutate and form catalytic cycles.

    No matter whether the first self-replicators were single molecules, or complexes of small molecules, this model is nothing like Hoyle's "tornado in a junkyard making a 747". Just to hammer this home, here is a simple comparison of the theory criticised by creationists, and the actual theory of abiogenesis.

    CREATIONISTS: simple chemicals ------> bacteria

    ABIOGENESIS: simple chemicals---->polymers------>replicating polymers----->hypercycle------>protobionts----->bacteria

    Note that the real theory has a number of small steps, and in fact I've left out some steps (especially between the hypercycle-protobiont stage) for simplicity. Each step is associated with a small increase in organisation and complexity, and the chemicals slowly climb towards organism-hood, rather than making one big leap.

    Where the creationist idea that modern organisms form spontaneously comes from is not certain. The first modern abiogenesis formulation, the Oparin/Haldane hypothesis from the 20's, starts with simple proteins/proteinoids developing slowly into cells. Even the ideas circulating in the 1850's were not "spontaneous" theories. The nearest I can come to is Lamarck's original ideas from 1803!

    Given that the creationists are criticising a theory over 150 years out of date, and held by no modern evolutionary biologist, why go further? Because there are some fundamental problems in statistics and biochemistry that turn up in these mistaken "refutations".

    Another claim often heard is that there is a "life sequence" of 400 proteins, and that the amino acid sequences of these proteins cannot be changed, for organisms to be alive.

    This, however, is nonsense. The 400 protein claim seems to come from the protein coding genome of Mycobacterium genetalium, which has the smallest genome currently known of any modern organism. However, inspection of the genome suggests that this could be reduced further to a minimal gene set of 256 proteins . Note again that this is a modern organism. The first protobiont/progenote would have been smaller still, and preceded by even simpler chemical systems.

    As to the claim that the sequences of proteins cannot be changed, again this is nonsense. There are in most proteins regions where almost any amino acid can be substituted, and other regions where conservative substitutions (where charged amino acids can be swapped with other charged amino acids, neutral for other neutral amino acids and hydrophobic amino acids for other hydrophobic amino acids) can be made. Some functionally equivalent molecules can have between 30 - 50% of their amino acids different. In fact it is possible to substitute structurally non-identical bacterial proteins for yeast proteins, and worm proteins for human proteins, and the organisms live quite happily.

    The "life sequence" is a myth.

    So let's play the creationist game and look at forming a peptide by random addition of amino acids. This certainly is not the way peptides formed on the early Earth, but it will be instructive.

    I will use as an example the "self-replicating" peptide from the Ghadiri group mentioned above. I could use other examples, such as the hexanucleotide self-replicator, the SunY self-replicator or the RNA polymerase described by the Eckland group, but for historical continuity with creationist claims a small peptide is ideal. This peptide is 32 amino acids long with a sequence of RMKQLEEKVYELLSKVACLEYEVARLKKVGE and is an enzyme, a peptide ligase that makes a copy of itself from two 16 amino acid long subunits. It is also of a size and composition that is ideally suited to be formed by abiotic peptide synthesis. The fact that it is a self replicator is an added irony.

    The probability of generating this in successive random trials is (1/20)^32 or 1 chance in 4.29 x 10^40. This is much, much more probable than the 1 in 2.04 x 10^390 of the standard creationist "generating carboxypeptidase by chance" scenario, but still seems absurdly low.

    However, there is another side to these probability estimates, and it hinges on the fact that most of us don't have a feeling for statistics. When someone tells us that some event has a one in a million chance of occuring, many of us expect that one million trials must be undergone before the said event turns up, but this is wrong.

    Here is a experiment you can do yourself: take a coin, flip it four times, write down the results, and then do it again. How many times would you think you had to repeat this procedure (trial) before you get 4 heads in a row?

    Now the probability of 4 heads in a row is is (1/2)^4 or 1 chance in 16: do we have to do 16 trials to get 4 heads (HHHH)? No, in successive experiments I got 11, 10, 6, 16, 1, 5, and 3 trials before HHHH turned up. The figure 1 in 16 (or 1 in a million or 1 in 1040) gives the likelihood of an event in a given trial, but doesn't say where it will occur in a series. You can flip HHHH on your very first trial (I did). Even at 1 chance in 4.29 x 10^40, a self-replicator could have turned up surprisingly early. But there is more.

    1 chance in 4.29 x 10^40 is still orgulously, gobsmackingly unlikely; it's hard to cope with this number. Even with the argument above (you could get it on your very first trial) most people would say "surely it would still take more time than the Earth existed to make this replicator by random methods". Not really; in the above examples we were examining sequential trials, as if there was only one protein/DNA/proto-replicator being assembled per trial. In fact there would be billions of simultaneous trials as the billions of building block molecules interacted in the oceans, or on the thousands of kilometers of shorelines that could provide catalytic surfaces or templates.

    Let's go back to our example with the coins. Say it takes a minute to toss the coins 4 times; to generate HHHH would take on average 8 minutes. Now get 16 friends, each with a coin, to all flip the coin simultaneously 4 times; the average time to generate HHHH is now 1 minute. Now try to flip 6 heads in a row; this has a probability of (1/2)^6 or 1 in 64. This would take half an hour on average, but go out and recruit 64 people, and you can flip it in a minute. If you want to flip a sequence with a chance of 1 in a billion, just recruit the population of China to flip coins for you, you will have that sequence in no time flat.

    So, if on our prebiotic earth we have a billion peptides growing simultaneously, that reduces the time taken to generate our replicator significantly.

    Okay, you are looking at that number again, 1 chance in 4.29 x 10^40, that's a big number, and although a billion starting molecules is a lot of molecules, could we ever get enough molecules to randomly assemble our first replicator in under half a billion years?

    Yes, one kilogram of the amino acid arginine has 2.85 x 10^24 molecules in it (that's well over a billion billion); a tonne of arginine has 2.85 x 10^27 molecules. If you took a semi-trailer load of each amino acid and dumped it into a medium size lake, you would have enough molecules to generate our particular replicator in a few tens of years, given that you can make 55 amino acid long proteins in 1 to 2 weeks

    So how does this shape up with the prebiotic Earth? On the early Earth it is likely that the ocean had a volume of 1 x 10^24 litres. Given an amino acid concentration of 1 x 10^-6 M (a moderately dilute soup, see Chyba and Sagan 1992), then there are roughly 1 x 10^50 potential starting chains, so that a fair number of efficent peptide ligases (about 1 x 10^31) could be produced in a under a year, let alone a million years. The synthesis of primitive self-replicators could happen relatively rapidly, even given a probability of 1 chance in 4.29 x 10^40 (and remember, our replicator could be synthesized on the very first trial).

    Assume that it takes a week to generate a sequence . Then the Ghadiri ligase could be generated in one week, and any cytochrome C sequence could be generated in a bit over a million years (along with about half of all possible 101 peptide sequences, a large proportion of which will be functional proteins of some sort).

    Although I have used the Ghadiri ligase as an example, as I mentioned above the same calculations can be performed for the SunY self replicator, or the Ekland RNA polymerase. The general conclusion (you can make scads of the things in a short time) is the same for these oligonucleotides.

    With that said, it's easy to see how the probability of proteins forming is not (1/20)^300. The reason that we haven't been able to reproduce these findings yet is because it takes time, millions of years maybe...

    Finally, evolution has been proved. Nowadays, many new technologies rely on evolution, such as in computer science, where evolutionary algorithms are used to simplify complex modelling problems. Now, if evolution were false, these technologies wouldn't work... however they do work, therefore showing that evolution HAS to be true,


    PlaffelvohfenBrainSocks
  • I completely reject the appalling salvation doctrine... 

    In the words of Christopher Hitchens: "I refuse to be told, “I have a meek and mild savior for you, and if you don’t accept him you will be tortured forever”. Anyone who believes this is a wicked and delusional idiot. I will not be talked to in that tone. That is the language of totalitarianism and dictatorship, and it’s a very great relief to know that it’s completely mythical."
    KdCuberAlofRI
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • 777: "No religion has ever demonstrated anything because it does not relate to God, this is why religion is ignored and Jesus IS the only legitimate God of the universe."
    @jesusisGod777 ; So every religion that doesn't believe in the Christian God is automatically wrong? For example: Buddhism. There's the Eightfold Path consisting of:
    1 Right View
    2 Right Intentions
    3 Right Mindfulness
    4 Right Concentration
    5 Right Effort
    6 Right Speech
    7 Right Action
    8 Right Livelihood

    Sure, they are not the Ten Commandments--In fact, telling you how to think and act rather than what not to do,  but does one never consider the positive messages behind them because they are not labeled as Christian?
    Iamachristian
  • Don't worry about @jesusisGod777 ;

    He's just a troll 
    PlaffelvohfenjesusisGod777대왕광개토
  • @KdCuber

    Just mad because you got your feelings hurt and lost a debate.

    That's how truth works moron.
    대왕광개토AlofRI
  • Yes Jesus is the only way to be saved. Everyone finds that out.
    Plaffelvohfen대왕광개토AlofRI
  • "

    Just mad because you got your feelings hurt and lost a debate.

    That's how truth works moron."

    I technically won since you don't want to debate me Xd
    Plaffelvohfen대왕광개토
  • "Yes Jesus is the only way to be saved. Everyone finds that out."

    Say that to 240 million atheists....
    LogicalThinker
  • SandSand 100 Pts
    >>>-There is no need of a god, the universe may have simply tarted from a chain reaction of universes collapsing into a space-time
    You say may have, you sound unsure, why can you not put your money where your claim is.
    Be sure.
    Say what you want to say. So when you are proven wrong then their won't be any excuses.

  • SandSand 100 Pts
    What is the probability of a literature book forming by chance?

    Plaffelvohfen
  • It's been more than two thousand years since Jesus Christ left this earth. Why can't people just let the man rest in peace, assuming he did exist.
    PlaffelvohfenLogicalThinkerAlofRIMayCaesar

    “It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing bullsh*t requires no such conviction…”
    ― Ben Goldacre, Bad Science




  • SandSand 100 Pts
    According to scientists what came first?
    Place this list in the order that it came in existence.

    water
    land
    plants
    fish
    atmosphere
    birds
    heavy gases
    land animals
    man
    seasons
    light

    No cheating!
    PlaffelvohfenLogicalThinker
  • edited September 28

     

  • edited September 28

    This verse (John 14:6) has been taken out of context. Please see the context and menaing below:

    Context:
    “In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.”
    ”And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
    "And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know”
    “Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?”
    “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:2-6 KJV

    Meaning;
    Jesus said I am going to my fathers house (heaven) and I go to prepare a place for you and you know where I am going and how to get there.
    Thomas said we don’t know where you are going and how do we know the way to get there. Jesus answered, I am the way, the truth. If you follow me and my teaching you will get there and have eternal life.
    Jesus was the messenger of that time and no man could get to heaven without recognising him as the messenger / messiah to come and following his teachings.
    Every messenger that was sent by our Father (God) would have said a similar thing: “I am a messenger of
    God, I am here to warn you. Follow me and do what I tell you to do, and you shall have eternal life”. The people of those times would have to obey their messengers of God. Noah would have said the same, Abraham, Moses etc. So in other words if you follow me (i.e. the messenger) you are following the Almighty God.

  • I had a dog that saved me once ……. loved that four legged friend! I've met a lot of humans with half his intelligence. :heartbreak:
  • AlofRIAlofRI 353 Pts
    @Sand ;

    The thing with science is, scientists keep an open mind. They may think, at this time, a particular thing came first. They are open to something we yet do not know of coming about, OR another find that contradicts the present theory. They don't sit back and say "There is only one answer, and it was written in an ancient book". One has to close one's mind to think that.
    I'm not a scientist, but, I'm very glad they keep looking for answers and don't accept those that came about thousands of years ago, when some thought the Sun revolved around the Earth, and fire and water were "elements".
  • IamachristianIamachristian 18 Pts
    edited November 26
    KdCuber, here's a fact. In 2005, Dr. Mary Schweitzer found soft elastic tissue in a T.rex femur, with blood vessels and blood cells. The T rex's estimated age was 75 million. Did that T.rex live millions of years ago? No. https://www.history.com/news/scientists-find-soft-tissue-in-75-million-year-old-dinosaur-bones
  • @YeshuaRedeemed ; There is no other Name given under Heaven by which mankind can find righteousness (a right standing) with God the Father except by grace through faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.


  • @Sand @YeshuaRedeemed The creation of matter preceded the existence of the Universe. The Holy Spirit has explained that our Creator, Jesus Christ, took elements from the Spiritual World that are not visible to human senses constrained by Time and He fashioned those elements into matter that can be interacted with by those creatures constrained in Time. It is this created matter that forms the constituent elements as foundational to everything visible and invisible within the Realm of Time. This why mankind, cognitively constrained by Time and The Curse, will never define origin because matter, the basic building blocks of life in Time, finds its genesis in a World beyond the finite World of Time.

    "By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible."  Hebrews 11:3 (NASB)

    Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."  John 18:36 (NASB)

    Speaking of our Creator, Jesus Christ...who holds all things together by the power of His might...




  • RickeyD said:
    @Sand @YeshuaRedeemed The creation of matter preceded the existence of the Universe. The Holy Spirit has explained that our Creator, Jesus Christ, took elements from the Spiritual World that are not visible to human senses constrained by Time and He fashioned those elements into matter that can be interacted with by those creatures constrained in Time. It is this created matter that forms the constituent elements as foundational to everything visible and invisible within the Realm of Time. This why mankind, cognitively constrained by Time and The Curse, will never define origin because matter, the basic building blocks of life in Time, finds its genesis in a World beyond the finite World of Time.

    "By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible."  Hebrews 11:3 (NASB)

    Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."  John 18:36 (NASB)

    Speaking of our Creator, Jesus Christ...who holds all things together by the power of His might...




    Now look what you did, you caused me to agree with you. :)
  • @YeshuaRedeemed ; You agree with the Holy Spirit...I'm just a messenger.
  • @RickeyD Fair enough. :)
    RickeyD
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 2266 Pts
    edited November 27
    I still cannot quite understand what it is many religious people are trying to save me from. My life is pretty awesome, and I do not think I have ever been happier and more content than I am now. I love my profession, I love my hobbies, I love my friends and family, I love this amazing country, I love my car and I love myself (not in a dirty way, although sometimes in that way too).

    So what am I being saved from? Do not save me; I am doing well. Go to North Korea and save people there; at least they have something to be saved from.
    smoothie
  • @MayCaesar

    It is nothing in this life that you need saving from, but the day of wrath which is to come.

    But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. (Romans 2:5)

    Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. (John 12:25)



  • @Neopesdom

    If the god is going to inflict his wrath on me for having a happy and fulfilled life, full of wonderful interactions with other human beings, then he does not seem to be a righteous being. In which case, instead of being saved, I prefer to fight the guy. Let the strongest survive the battle on the crossroads of time!
  • @MayCaesar

    >>If the god is going to inflict his wrath on me for having a happy and fulfilled life. 

    It is not because you have a happy and fulfilled life, it is because your are proud and self seeking, not humble and God seeking. You have rejected your creator, turned your back to the truth. Your little quips are nothing more than a defensive mechanism, your smirks little more then to hide your insecurity. You have wandered away from your sheppard, lost and confused, your heart deceives you into thinking you are good. 

    The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever. (Psalm 111:10)
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 2266 Pts
    edited November 27
    @Neopesdom

    Interesting. You claim that your wisdom is based on fear of god, yet it is me who is insecure? Okay!

    That said, I do have plenty of insecurities. Fearing a floating being in a parallel Universe is not one of them though. I do fear a few things, however:
    - Centipedes.
    - Dentists.
    - Beautiful Asian ladies.
    - Not living long enough to see the Goldbach's conjecture proven or disproven.

    Save me, my friend!
    smoothie
  • Well by the way biblical history recalls Jesus was not saved when the Romans pinned him to a cross so I don't think he can save anyone if he can't even manage to save himself.
    MayCaesarsmoothie
  • RickeyDRickeyD 178 Pts
    edited November 27
    @Haydn_E_Sheldon ; Jesus walked to the Cross in obedience to the Father in order to shed His sinless blood for the payment of your sin-debt and offer you a pardon from death in sin and Hell if you'll repent of your sin and believe that Jesus is God who died for you and that He was resurrected for your justification leading to Eternal life (Romans 10:9-10). Jesus was not pinned on anything...it was His love and obedience that kept Him on the Cross because He could have come down from same at any moment but opted to die for you and gave you the ability to mock Him and His death via free will (John 3:16).


    smoothie
  • does jesus work as a 911 operator? I don't think so, checkmate
    Truth is built with evidence, not faith


  • @smoothie ; Without Jesus Christ as your Lord and Mediator for sin, you will die in sin and die a second death in Hell...you will check-mate nothing but suffering and sorrow if you reject the suffering and death of Jesus Christ, an act of sacrifice and love that provided you a pardon from Hell if you will accept it through faith/belief.


    smoothie
  • @RickeyD

    Is the god a necromancer? If a Jesus zombie is shambling somewhere on Earth right now, then can he maybe raise my beloved parrot from the dead as well? I am okay with having a zombie parrot, as long as I do not have to feed him with carrion.

    The god loves a good joke though, does he not? First, he orders his own son to die a slow and painful death. Then he resurrects him and orders this walking corpse to run around and ask people to worship the god. In all this time the god sits back, drinks a fine wine and watches everything unfolding on a TV screen.
    I love a good prank!
    smoothiePlaffelvohfen
  • @MayCaesar ; Jesus is God who entered Time to pay your sin-debt that you could not pay. You mock Him now and ridicule His suffering and death for you but you will not mock Him when you stand before Him in Eternity and give an account for your life lived in rejection of His free gift of salvation earned for you at the Crucifixion. You will wail and mourn and beg for mercy but it will not be forthcoming because you have denied the righteous decrees of God the Father who allowed the Son's horrific death to be manifest for you...you have made a horrible and tragic decision concerning your life in Time and in Eternity. 




  • This debate implies that there is something to be saved from.
    Saved from what? What is there to be saved from? It seems we are debating in a fantasy world here.
    Can someone please clarify? I would be interested to participate in this debate, but right now I have no idea what it means.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • RickeyDRickeyD 178 Pts
    edited December 5
    @xlJ_dolphin_473 ; You are being saved from yourself, your sin (Romans 3:23)...it is your sin, you rebellion to God's will for your life and your violation of His law that has distanced, created a chasm between you and God the Father. The Son, Jesus Christ, entered Time 2019-yrs ago and died, shed His innocent blood, for you paying the price for your sin (John 3:16)...the only acceptable payment for sin in accordance to God's Law (John 14:6).

    If you repent (turn away) from your sin and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord for the mediation of your sin, God the Father has agreed to forgive your sin and permit you access to His Kingdom subsequent to the death of your body in Time (Romans 10:9-10; John 3:18). If you reject God's Plan for salvation by grace (unmerited favor) through faith (believing-trusting) in Jesus Christ as Lord, you will die in your sin and die a second death in Hell subsequent to the Judgment (John 8:24; Revelation 20:11-15) because your unrepentant sin will NOT be allowed to enter the Kingdom of God (Revelation 21:27). Jesus has given Himself for you but you must be willing to "believe" with a sincere heart that Jesus died for your sin and you must be willing to trust in Him as your Lord and Savior (Acts 4:12). Jesus warned...


  • edited December 5
    @RickeyD
    What is ‘your sin’? People do bad things in the world. Is this the ‘original sin’? More on this later.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 178 Pts
    edited December 5
    @xlJ_dolphin_473 ; Have you ever lusted after a man or woman. Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever taken something that was not yours to possess? Have you ever been angry with another without due cause? Have you ever spoken against God in unbelief? Have you ever denied the validity and reality of God? Do you reject Jesus Christ as God and Mediator for sin? Have you ever hated another person?


  • edited December 6
    @RickeyD
    Yes, but these are not sins as such. Everyone has done bad things, but rather than deciding that we need a saviour, we must accept that fact and work with. It. After all, no human is perfect, and we can all learn and grow from our mistakes, rather than blindly hoping for someone to ‘save’ us from it all.
  • @xlJ_dolphin_473 ; Yes, these are sins against God's perfection and you are a sinner who is separated from God's grace and mercy because of your sin. This is one reason Jesus Christ manifest in the Incarnation, to take YOUR sin upon Himself at the Crucifixion and die in YOUR place thereby offering you a pardon from death in sin and a second death in Hell IF you will humble yourself and trust in what He, Jesus, did for YOU by shedding His innocent blood for the payment of your sin (2 Corinthians 5:21).

    There is no other way for you to be reconciled to God the Father but by believing in your heart that Jesus is God who died to pay your sin-debt (John 14:6). ONLY by trusting in Jesus as your Lord can you receive forgiveness of sin and the imputation of Jesus' perfection-righteousness over YOUR life in place of your sin (Romans 8:1). When you trust in Jesus as Lord, God the Father declares you NOT GUILTY and your sin, past-present-future, is forgiven and you are given a new birth, a new life by the indwelling Holy Spirit who will take up residence within you and guide you, teach you, to follow God's will for your life through the process of "sanctification" where you are molded into the image of Jesus Christ (spiritually) incrementally each day as you walk in obedience and love in your relationship with God the Father (Ephesians 1:13; Hebrews 8:12; Romans 12:2). 


  • @RickeyD
    You said already that you are rebelling against God by committing a sin. Why is it that sinning is a rebellion against the God of the Christian faith? Does God want you to be perfect?
    Basically what you did is repeated what you said in your earlier argument and did not even attempt to rebut against my argument. 
    You said: Have you ever spoken against God in unbelief?
    You say that atheism is a sin. I acknowledge what you say, but how can you commit a sin by making up your mind about something and telling others what you think? 
    You said: Have you ever hated another person?
    Yes, but you cannot get on well with everyone and there will always be some people who you really dislike.
    You said: Have you ever taken something that was not yours to possess? 
    That's just stealing, and would be considered a crime in any culture, religious or not.

    How can these things be a rebellion against God when I proved that 2 of them are not bad, and the last one is a sin in religious culture and secular culture?


  • RickeyDRickeyD 178 Pts
    edited December 7
    @xlJ_dolphin_473 ; You don't possess the authority to determine what is bad or good in accordance with God's Law. The entire reason for our existence and the creation of Time, Matter, the Universe, Life, Hell, is the resultant of "sin" that manifest in the Kingdom of God before the creation of Time (2 Timothy 1:10; Isaiah 14; Revelation 12; Ezekiel 28:12-17).

    In fact, the ONLY reason our Creator has created the Realm of Time and endured with great suffering the rebellion of human KIND is the truism that He is dealing with a rebellion that manifest in the Kingdom in Eternity past and that rebellion, its "sin," was removed from the Kingdom and is currently being dealt with within the constraints of Time. This is the primary reason Jesus appeared in Time i.e. to defeat the works of the Devil-Lucifer (1 John 3:8). Had the coup de taut lead by Lucifer not manifest, you and I would have never existed. It is because of sin and its destructiveness that God removed that sin and sin's impetus, Lucifer, from the Kingdom and that sin is being dealt with in our presence this very moment (Luke 10:18).  We are not wrestling against flesh and blood but we are in the midst of a spiritual war of incredible magnitude (Ephesians 6:12; James 4:7).  

    You and I are involved in a cataclysmic spiritual war and that war was initiated by rebellion - sin - covetousness - in the Kingdom. Do not think that God the Father is going to compromise with your sin and permit same to enter His Kingdom subsequent to the death of your body. You are a sinner (Romans 3:23) and if you desire to enter God's Kingdom subsequent to your death, your sin must be atoned for, paid for, removed from you and you must be "born again" by the Spirit of God (John 3:3) by grace through faith in Jesus Christ as Lord (John 3:16). If not, God the Father is NOT going to allow your unrepentant sin to enter His Kingdom (Revelation 21:27) and, for this reason, you will ultimately die in sin and die in Hell (John 8:24; Revelation 20:11-14).

    God's standard for entrance into His Kingdom is absolute perfection which mankind cannot attain by his own effort, for this reason, we, human KIND, were all destined to a death in Hell because of our sin, but God intervened in our hopeless condition and in His desire to defeat Lucifer by love...God's own selfless love; He entered Time, took on flesh in the Incarnation and paid the ultimate price for sin i.e. death (Romans 6:23) for you and for me. God the Son, Jesus Christ, was the ONLY ONE who could pay that price for sin because He was/is perfect, Jesus NEVER sinned, Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law, the 613-Levitical Laws and the 10-Commandments perfectly (2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 10:4).

    When anyone repents of their sin and chooses to believe sincerely in their heart, confess with their mouth that Jesus Christ is God who died to pay their sin-debt, God the Father removes all sin from that person's life, past-present-future, and God the Father imputes the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ into and over the life of the one so believing/confessing (Romans 10:9-10; Romans 5:1; John 3:16). When we trust in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Mediator for our sin, God the Father takes away our imperfection and replaces it with the perfection of the Son, Jesus Christ (Romans 3:25-26; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 3:13).

    When we stand before God in Eternity, those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as Lord......God the Father will NOT see their sin but ONLY the perfection of the Son of God, Jesus Christ (John 3:16; John 3:36; Matthew 25:31-46). God the Father has ordained this through the Covenant to Grace and it is through the Covenant of Grace established in the innocent blood of Jesus Christ (Matthew 26:28) - alone - that God the Father defeated Lucifer/Satan, death, Hell and the grave at the Crucifixion (1 John 3:5-8). When we trust in Jesus Christ as Lord, we win the victory over Satan, death, Hell, the grave and we enter into the victory earned for us by Jesus Christ our Lord (1 Corinthians 15:57).  There is NO OTHER WAY to find life in the Kingdom of God but by grace through faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Mediator for your sin (John 14:6).


  • @RickeyD

    Why do you refer to Satan by a false name?
  • RickeyDRickeyD 178 Pts
    edited December 7
    @JesusisGod777888 ; Please explain?  Why are you more concerned about my usage of the "traditional" name for Satan i.e. Lucifer than the fact I am sharing the Gospel with an unbeliever? Could you not have the decency to ask that question by private message than seek to argue over doctrine and tradition in the presence of unbelievers? Is that wise?

    Lucifer is a Latin word that means “light bearer” and was originally the name for the planet Venus, known as the “morning star.” In the Old Testament the planet Venus is referred to under this name, but there is also a secondary meaning that is connected to the word.

    In the book of Isaiah the corrupt King of Babylon is given this name.

    “How you are fallen from heaven,
    O Day Star [Lucifer], son of Dawn!
    How you are cut down to the ground,
    you who laid the nations low!
    You said in your heart,
    ‘I will ascend to heaven;
    above the stars of God
    I will set my throne on high;
    I will sit on the mount of assembly
    in the far north;
    I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
    I will make myself like the Most High.’
    But you are brought down to Sheol,
    to the depths of the Pit.” (Isaiah 14:12-15)

    The king was called to be a “light bearer,” but instead tried to be like God and “fell from heaven” and was condemned to “the Pit.”

    Initially this was the primarily connected to the historical king of Babylon, but then Jesus made a comment to his disciples that added another dimension to the name. Jesus said, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18).

    The two passages were later connected by Christians and slowly “Lucifer” became associated with the name of Satan before he fell from Heaven. Various traditions claim that Lucifer was the “brightest” among the angels before he rebelled against God. You know who Lucifer is, I know who Lucifer is and if you don't desire to call Lucifer as one who deceives as an angel of light...then don't. But save you theological prowess for another time, please?






  • @RickeyD
    You said: You don't possess the authority to determine what is bad or good in accordance with God's Law. 
    Why does God possess the authority to determine what is bad or good?
  • @xlJ_dolphin_473 ; Because all of Creation, including The Law - objective morality, is God's dominion and only He has the authority to discern righteousness v. evil relevant to our Eternal destiny. Each of us, at the moment of conception, has the objective - moral law of God written upon our heart (Romans 2:15) because where there is no law there is no sin (Romans 4:15; 5:13).  This infusion of Law is essential for the sustainability of Human KIND and equity with due process at Judgment in Eternity. God is Judge and He will Judge both the righteous and the unrighteous.


  • @RickeyD

    You presume too much. What if, when you stand before God, the God happens to be drunk into oblivion and gets his moral law backwards? And decide, "Well, I do not believe that someone has created me, hence I am Atheist, and so all the Atheists will be sent to heaven, and everyone else will be sent to hell. You, here... Christian? Ha-h, enjoy boiling for eternity!"

    People who go out of their way to be liked by someone tend to regret it later, as they are the ones typically getting under the executioner's axe first. Just look at what happened to Trotsky, who was the most loyal Lenin's and, later, Stalin's dog, yet ended up with an ice axe in his skull. Those who are too loyal rise suspicions in their motives, and are often discarded by those they were dedicated to the most.

    Which is why, to succeed in life, you have to focus on your own self-interest, and interact with others in a mutually beneficial way. You do not want a one-sided relationship, where you sacrifice everything to please someone else: this comes out as forced and rarely works.

  • 1) Your hypothetical mocking will not manifest because God does not lie and God does not sin; therefore, God is true and He will do exactly has He has said in His word - through His Spirit (Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18; Numbers 23:19).

    2) Your scenario concerning seeking fellowship with the enemies of one's soul will manifest when the Progressive Socialists take power in the House, the Judiciary and the Executive Branch and the leather boot of Leninism-Marxism, the bourgeoisie, comes down on the weak and naive neck of the Millennial and Gen-Z generations AKA the "useful idiots."

    3) Success in life is subjective. Your standards for success and God's standards for success are an Eternity apart.



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