Is Religion Ever Child Abuse?

Dee

@TKDB

You say......What country are you from?

My reply .....Why don’t you call a news conference and ask people where they are from  

You say .....And qhat does this lazy language, have to do with the theme of the forum?

My reply .....Why not turn your question into non internet question? With your anti Atheist rhetoric? Why not ask William Lane Craig where he’s from and get a news crew to tell us? 

Does “lazy language “ include your example as in “And qhat” pretty lazy isn’t it why not get a news crew maybe to spread your lazy language and anti Atheist rhetoric?

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

Hate, is taught, to those who are willing to be brainwashed by its rhetoric.

White Supremacy, is taught, to those who are willing to be brainwashed by its rhetoric.

Racism, is taught, to those who are willing to be brainwashed by its rhetoric.

And abuse is taught, to those who are willing to be brainwashed by its rhetoric as well.

And the religious buildings, that I have been to, are not teaching, or brainwashing, any babies, toddlers, children, teenagers, or parents, in how to use Religion, to abuse their kids, or families with.

And I challenge you, to provide any video evidence, that clearly shows any religious individuals, who are verbally trying to brainwash, their congregation, to abuse their families, with their Religion?

ZeusAres42

@TKDB

In case you haven't noticed I am ignoring your posts. When you've got something relevant to what I actually said and to the theme of this debate then I might just respond to you again. But for now, it's the goodbye from me.

Plaffelvohfen

@TKDB

And I challenge you, to provide any video evidence, that clearly shows any religious individuals, who are verbally trying to brainwash, their congregation, to abuse their families, with their Religion?

Unlike you, I have the basic courtesy and decency to give an actual answer...

So you asked for a video? Here it is, actual religious indoctrination / brainwashing in action, this is child abuse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

TKDB

@Dee

"Why not turn your question into non internet question? With your anti Atheist rhetoric? Why not ask William Lane Craig where he’s from and get a news crew to tell us? 

Does “lazy language “ include your example as in “And what” pretty lazy isn’t it why not get a news crew maybe to spread your lazy language and anti Atheist rhetoric?"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lane_Craig

There's the information on him.

@Dee


There's the truth, the "Anti Athiest rhetoric Card?"

When an athiest gets offended, that card gets played.

I don't care if an individual is Athiest, Theist, Christian, or Muslim, or what have you?

I'm pro humanity, pro family, and anti hate minded.

And its easier to be abusive, and it's easier to hate, than it is, to leave people alone, who haven't done anything to others, by going after their individual religious preferences, and are being peaceful towards their own families, and the humanity around them.

Then to make comments, like some have? 

ZeusAres42

Plaffelvohfen said:

@TKDB

And I challenge you, to provide any video evidence, that clearly shows any religious individuals, who are verbally trying to brainwash, their congregation, to abuse their families, with their Religion?

Unlike you, I have the basic courtesy and decency to give an actual answer...

So you asked for a video? Here it is, actual religious indoctrination / brainwashing in action, this is child abuse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

That really is disgusting and is completely anti-humanity. This is indeed child abuse and anyone else that doesn't think so is either a psychopath that clearly lacks empathy or utterly insane. Anyone who cannot or does not want to see this is most definitely not pro-humanity. 

TKDB

@Plaffelvohfen

Then call 911, and file a Police Report with your local law enforcement, to have the people in the video arrested, because of how you view your individual points of view? 

"Unlike you, I have the basic courtesy and decency to give an actual answer...

So you asked for a video? Here it is, actual religious indoctrination / brainwashing in action, this is child abuse. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac. "

Dee

@TKDB

You say .....

There's the truth, the "Anti Athiest rhetoric Card?"

When an athiest gets offended, that card gets played.

I don't care if an individual is Athiest, Theist, Christian, or Muslim, or what have you?

I'm pro humanity, pro family, and anti hate minded.

And its easier to be abusive, and it's easier to hate, than it is, to leave people alone, who haven't done anything to others, by going after their individual religious preferences, and are being peaceful towards their own families, and the humanity around them.

Then to make comments, like some have? 




My reply ....

There's the truth, the "Anti Athiest rhetoric Card?"

When a Christian  gets offended, that card gets played.

You do care if an individual is Athiest, Theist, Christian, or Muslim, or what have you

You’re anti humanity, anti family, and pro hate minded.

And its easier to be abusive, and it's easier to hate, than it is, to leave people alone, who haven't done anything to others, by going after their individual non religious preferences, and are being peaceful towards their own families, and the humanity around them.

Then to make comments, like some have? 

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

Same response;
Then call the Police in your country, and file a Police Report with your local law enforcement, to have the people in the video arrested, because of how you view your individual points of view? 

"That really is disgusting and is completely anti-humanity. This is indeed child abuse and anyone else that doesn't think so is either a psychopath that clearly lacks empathy or utterly insane. Anyone who cannot or does not want to see this is most definitely not pro-humanity."

ZeusAres42

Plaffelvohfen said:

@TKDB

And I challenge you, to provide any video evidence, that clearly shows any religious individuals, who are verbally trying to brainwash, their congregation, to abuse their families, with their Religion?

Unlike you, I have the basic courtesy and decency to give an actual answer...

So you asked for a video? Here it is, actual religious indoctrination / brainwashing in action, this is child abuse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

Also, here is a video of a former Islamic Radical that transformed his life. The core things are like this guy also said is that they actually believe that they are serving God and believe what they're doing is right, and that is what needs to be challenged. Former radicals can see this, Psychologists can see this, the governments in the developed modern-day world can see this, the vast majority of the public in developed countries can see this, most of the actual modern, moderate Theistic and non-theistic religions can see this. TKDB however, obviously cannot see this.

ZeusAres42

Plaffelvohfen said:

@TKDB

And I challenge you, to provide any video evidence, that clearly shows any religious individuals, who are verbally trying to brainwash, their congregation, to abuse their families, with their Religion?

Unlike you, I have the basic courtesy and decency to give an actual answer...

So you asked for a video? Here it is, actual religious indoctrination / brainwashing in action, this is child abuse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

Also, here is a video of a former Islamic Radical that transformed his life. The core things are like this guy also said is that they actually believe that they are serving God and believe what they're doing is right, and that is what needs to be challenged. Former radicals can see this, Psychologists can see this, the governments in the developed modern-day world can see this, the vast majority of the public in developed countries can see this, most of the actual modern, moderate Theistic and non-theistic religions can see this. TKDB however, obviously cannot see this.

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

@Plaffelvohfen

https://www-psychologytoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201810/how-religious-fundamentalism-hijacks-the-brain?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201810/how-religious-fundamentalism-hijacks-the-brain 

"How Religious Fundamentalism Hijacks the Brain

Fundamentalist ideologies act like mental parasites."

"In moderation, religious and spiritualpractices can be great for a person’s life and mental well-being. But religious fundamentalism—which refers to the belief in the absolute authority of a religious text or leaders—is almost never good for an individual. This is primarily because fundamentalism discourages any logical reasoning or scientific evidence that challenges its scripture, making it inherently maladaptive."

"It is not accurate to call religious fundamentalism a disease, because that term refers to a pathology that physically attacks the biology of a system. But fundamentalist ideologies can be thought of as mental parasites. A parasite does not usually kill the host it inhabits, as it is critically dependent on it for survival. Instead, it feeds off it and changes its behavior in ways that benefit its own existence. By understanding how fundamentalist ideologies function and are represented in the brain using this analogy, we can begin to understand how to inoculate against them, and potentially, how to rehabilitate someone who has undergone ideological brainwashing—in other words, a reduction in one’s ability to think critically or independently.

How Religious Ideologies Spread

Similar to how organisms and their genescompete for survival in the environment and gene pool, ideas compete for survival inside brains, and in the pool of ideas that inhabit them. The famous evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has used this insightful analogy to explain how ideas spread and evolve over time. In his influential 1976 book, The Selfish Gene, he refers to ideas as “memes” (the mental analog of a gene), which he has defined as self-replicating units that spread throughout culture. We are all familiar with many types of memes, including the various customs, myths, and trends that have become part of human society."

"As Dawkins explains, ideas spread through the behavior that they produce in their hosts, which is what enables them to be transmitted from one brain to another. For example, an ideology—such as a religion—that causes its inhabitants to practice its rituals and communicate its beliefs will be transmitted to others. Successful ideas are those that are best able to spread themselves, while those that fail to self-replicate go extinct. In this way, some religious ideologies persist while others fade into oblivion.

It is easy to see why religion quickly spread through culture once it emerged. When humans gained the cognitive capacity to reason and plan for the future, they became aware of their own mortality. The realization that oneself and all one’s loved ones will someday die is naturally terrifying, and this existential fearperfectly set the stage for anxiety-reducing ideas, like ones that offer a never-ending afterlife. But religions are complex ideas, and the psychological effects they have on minds go beyond just relieving anxiety.

Essentially, the brain is a biological computer, and an ideology is a set of coded instructions, or “cultural software,” that is running on the brain’s hardware. Esteemed philosopher and cognitive scientist Daniel Dennett insightfully described how ideas can control minds when he said, “The haven all memes depend on reaching is the human mind, but a human mind is itself an artifact created when memes restructure a human brain in order to make it a better habitat for memes.” In this regard, it is often not the brain that controls the mind, but the memes that compose the mind that control the brain. This is especially the case when the meme is a religion. "

"Religions Mutate

Like genes and gene complexes, when an ideology is replicated—or passed from one person or group to another—it undergoes mutations. As a consequence, different versions of that belief system are produced, which generate different types of behavior. As such, there are often good and bad variants of any given religion. For instance, there are moderate versions of Christianity and Islamthat promote qualities like a sense of community and a moral code that fosters ethical behavior. These ideas can be beneficial to the host organism, i.e., the religious-practicing individual. At the same time, there are harmful variants of Islam and Christianity—specifically the rigid fundamentalist versions—that cause the host mind to process information in a biased way, think irrationally, and become delusional.

Ideological Viruses and Mental Parasites 

There are various types of viruses and parasites, and viruses are themselves parasites. While biological viruses are infectious agents that self-replicate inside living cells, computer viruses are destructive pieces of code that insert themselves into existing programs and change the actions of those programs. One particularly nasty type of computer virus that relies on humans for replication, known as a “Trojan horse,” disguises itself as something useful or interesting in order to persuade individuals to download and spread it. Similarly, a harmful ideology disguises itself as something beneficial in order to insert itself into the brain of an individual, so that it can instruct them to behave in ways that transmit the mental virus to others. The ability for parasites to modify the behavior of hosts in ways that increase their own “fitness” (i.e., their ability to survive and reproduce) while hurting the fitness of the host, is known as “parasitic manipulation.”

One particularly intriguing example of parasitic manipulation occurs when a hairworm infects a grasshopper and seizes its brain in order to survive and self-replicate. This parasite influences its behavior by inserting specific proteins into its brain. Essentially, infected grasshoppers become slaves for parasitic, self-copying machinery.

In much the same way, Christian fundamentalism is a parasitic ideology that inserts itself into brains, commanding individuals to act and think in a certain way—a rigid way that is intolerant to competing ideas. We know that religious fundamentalism is strongly correlated with what psychologists and neuroscientists call “magical thinking,” which refers to making connections between actions and events when no such connections exist in reality. Without magical thinking, the religion can’t survive, nor can it replicate itself. Another cognitive impairment we see in those with extreme religious views is a greater reliance on intuitive rather than reflective or analytic thought, which frequently leads to incorrect assumptions since intuition is often deceiving or overly simplistic.

We also know that in the United States, Christian fundamentalism is linked to science denial. Since science is nothing more than a method of determining truth using empirical measurement and hypothesis testing, denial of science equates to the denial of objective truth and tangible evidence. In other words, the denial of reality. Not only does fundamentalism promote delusional thinking, it also discourages followers from exposing themselves to any different ideas, which acts to protect the delusions that are essential to the ideology.

If we want to inoculate society against the harms of fundamentalist ideologies, we must start thinking differently about how they function in the brain. An ideology with a tendency to harm its host in an effort to self-replicate gives it all the properties of a parasitic virus, and defending against such a belief system requires understanding it as one. When a fundamentalist ideology inhabits a host brain, the organism’s mind is no longer fully in control. The ideology is controlling its behavior and reasoning processes to propagate itself and sustain its survival. This analogy should inform how we approach efforts that attempt to reverse brainwashing and restore cognitive function in areas like analytic reasoning and problem-solving."

The above is one individuals opinion, and then the individual name drops, "Richard Dawkins," I guess to reinforce their individual opinions?

Plaffelvohfen

@TKDB

You are like a conversation abortion, we had a good discussion and you poisoned it like every thread you get into and you never bring anything of substance. 

You are making Debate Island an unpleasant experience and are one of the reasons I don't subscribe and encourage the owner. 

John_C_87

Its not the same thing. Refusing medical treatment and Religion holding blame for child abuse. The crimes do not create a united state of child abuse performed by religion.

In reading the report there is no indication that the people felt right or wrong in the matter of health care provided. The are simply observing a patient’s right to refuse treatment. It is best I do not take part in this debate; I fear unable hold myself impartial and I have been given no means as to determine that medicine is not a state organized religion at this point.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with ideas being expressed there is simply no way to have all the details of each medical issue without the sacrifice publicly of medical privacy. I would say the known number of malpractices, the idea of stress and other factures placed on medical treatment in general effects how patients and family members are treated. The united state of risk is real is medical treatment as all patients are asked to sign so kind of wavers in understanding failure of a medical treatment is possible so is gamble.

I do not disagree with TKDB I just cannot act as any kind of constitutional translator in this particular debate. There are to many constitutional liberties already being taken in the name of science.

ZeusAres42

@Plaffelvohfen

The trick is to always bring this topic back on track whenever someone decides to take us off track. We can do this by ignoring those others as they become white noise in the background and have on-topic convos with ourselves and other's that are on topic. 

Plaffelvohfen

@ZeusAres42

I agree but I have a visceral reaction to disingenuousness, I may be flawed in that way...

I'll bring up a few points to further the actual debate later, I think there are specific doctrines that could be considered in themselves problematic...

John_C_87

Pink noise…………..They, we, I become pink noise, white-noise is random with a constant power having been really into designer electronic noise for a while. A white-noise is more like many people talking at once.

TKDB

@Plaffelvohfen

Who taught you to talk like this to people on the internet?

Your below commentary is a Goldmine, on the Athiest vernacular:

"You are like a
(conversation abortion,) we had a good discussion and you poisoned it like every thread you get into and you never bring anything of substance. "

Are you maybe trying to channel some Mr. Richard Dawkins, with that comment  of yours?

"You are like a conversation abortion?

And what does your comment, have to do with the theme of the forum?

'Is Religion Ever Child Abuse?"

You have in a sence created a question, that could put a whole new spin, on abortion, and child abuse?

Are you aware of that? 

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

I'll go get a classic Richard Dawkins video, that will help, you understand, more about the theme of this forum, and Mr. Dawkins.

TKDB

@Dee

I'm not offended, because your rhetoric, is a Goldmine, on how some of athiest, can choose to carry on, from their uses, of their very own rhetoric. 

Dee

You say .....I'm not offended, because your rhetoric, is a Goldmine, on how some of athiest, can choose to carry on, from their uses, of their very own rhetoric. 

My reply ....Why don’t you get your spokesman Lane Craig to do a tv interview?

Why not get your anti Atheist crowd together and put atheism on trial?

Why not do a broadcast of your anti Atheist rhetoric?

Why not maybe get Lane Craig and the police and arrest religion?

Maybe get a news crew and tell them about your anti Atheist mindsets maybe ?

Sand

In a family law context, parental rights refer to a parent’s rights to make important decisions and take certain actions on behalf of their child.  Such rights are generally deemed automatic for biological parents, as well as adoptive parents, foster parents, and in some cases, legal guardians.

Parental rights generally include:
    The right to assume legal and physical custody of the child or children;
    Rights towards child visitation and contact
    Rights to make decisions regarding medical treatment for the child
    The right to enter into a contract on behalf of a minor child
    The right to pass property to a child through inheritance

I agree about forcing viewpoints on others, but not children.

Because life is not eternal, it is a way to pass down values.

Personal qualities, property, inheritance, traditions, and understandings.

To prevent this would take away the parental responsibility, and liberties parents are due from raising the child.

I understand about the atheist and religious views and it should be netrual.

That would mean not to teach anything in school except math.

Having a child in your house who will not respect you is very difficult.

So not teaching values and understandings to raise them neutral.

This is evidence to me that your values and understands are not only not strong but useless.

Your contribution to life, the human race was worth nothing.

TKDB

@Dee

You're continued athiest rhetoric, still isn't offensive.

Please, continue on.

"My reply ....Why don’t you get your spokesman Lane Craig to do a tv interview?

Why not get your anti Atheist crowd together and put atheism on trial?

Why not do a broadcast of your anti Atheist rhetoric?

Why not maybe get Lane Craig and the police and arrest religion? 

Maybe get a news crew and tell them about your anti Atheist mindsets maybe?"

I expressed this before:

@Dee

I don't care what your current mindset affiliation is.

I don't care if an individual is an Athiest, Theist, Christian, or Muslim, or what have you?

I'm pro humanity, pro family, and anti hate minded.

So, please continue on, and educate the internet public, with your word's? 

ZeusAres42

TKDB said:

@ZeusAres42

I'll go get a classic Richard Dawkins video, that will help, you understand, more about the theme of this forum, and Mr. Dawkins.

Since I started this debate I would think I know exactly what it is about. You obviously don't and you demonstrate with every post in this thread. And what's more, is that you arrogantly believe you're right and superior with every moronic post. I claimed someone else one here was an example of the Dunning Kruger effect. You are the ultimate definition of it! 

Sand

Now let us address the issue of child abuse.

Looking at the coin on the other side.

Is science child abuse?

I think the answer to this question is both a yes and a no, dependent upon individual circumstances.
It is horrible how science has caused lots of birth defects and deaths in the efforts of study.

Faith has prevented more serious issues pressed by experiments. 
Balance is needed.
Giving science a clean slate, the human race would have been eliminated a long time ago.

Talk about abuse, how many times has science given completely healthy people diseases to try to develop biological weapons?
How many experimental surgeries were done with bad outcomes? How many deaths are happening in the wake of medical health?
Science is the backer of Technology.
How many bombs has science made, how many weapons, how many earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados caused by pollution.

I am not saying science is the issue, but balance is needed.
This balance happens during a child's education.

An extreme viewpoint is to think that religion is on an island by itself, apart from logic and reason.

When it is religious people who developed logic and reason.

If a child decides to go a different way after being taught something all their life, I believe they should be given that liberty.

But not to give the child anything I believe would hinder them.

ZeusAres42

Sand said:

In a family law context, parental rights refer to a parent’s rights to make important decisions and take certain actions on behalf of their child.  Such rights are generally deemed automatic for biological parents, as well as adoptive parents, foster parents, and in some cases, legal guardians.

Parental rights generally include:
    The right to assume legal and physical custody of the child or children;
    Rights towards child visitation and contact
    Rights to make decisions regarding medical treatment for the child
    The right to enter into a contract on behalf of a minor child
    The right to pass property to a child through inheritance

I agree about forcing viewpoints on others, but not children.

Because life is not eternal, it is a way to pass down values.

Personal qualities, property, inheritance, traditions, and understandings.

To prevent this would take away the parental responsibility, and liberties parents are due from raising the child.

I understand about the atheist and religious views and it should be netrual.

That would mean not to teach anything in school except math.

Having a child in your house who will not respect you is very difficult.

So not teaching values and understandings to raise them neutral.

This is evidence to me that your values and understands are not only not strong but useless.

Your contribution to life, the human race was worth nothing.

Firstly, thank you for bringing this topic back to what is about and keeping in theme with the actual debate. Secondly, in a nutshell, what exactly is your position here?

ZeusAres42

Sand said:

Now let us address the issue of child abuse.

Looking at the coin on the other side.

Is science child abuse?

I think the answer to this question is both a yes and a no, dependent upon individual circumstances.
It is horrible how science has caused lots of birth defects and deaths in the efforts of study.

Faith has prevented more serious issues pressed by experiments. 
Balance is needed.
Giving science a clean slate, the human race would have been eliminated a long time ago.

Talk about abuse, how many times has science given completely healthy people diseases to try to develop biological weapons?
How many experimental surgeries were done with bad outcomes? How many deaths are happening in the wake of medical health?
Science is the backer of Technology.
How many bombs has science made, how many weapons, how many earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados caused by pollution.

I am not saying science is the issue, but balance is needed.
This balance happens during a child's education.

An extreme viewpoint is to think that religion is on an island by itself, apart from logic and reason.

When it is religious people who developed logic and reason.

If a child decides to go a different way after being taught something all their life, I believe they should be given that liberty.

But not to give the child anything I believe would hinder them.

And you know the big difference between an accidental death that occurred because of a scientific mistake as opposed to a religious fanatic that deliberately caused the death/abuse of another is that the Scientists recognize this, feel remorse and do everything in their power to ensure that a case like that never happens again! Whereas a religious fanatic feels no remorse but deep euphoria instead because they believe that they are serving God and doing What's right. Who do you consider the more humane party here? I know who I would choose as being the most humane.

ZeusAres42

Sand said:

Now let us address the issue of child abuse.

Looking at the coin on the other side.

Is science child abuse?

I think the answer to this question is both a yes and a no, dependent upon individual circumstances.
It is horrible how science has caused lots of birth defects and deaths in the efforts of study.

Faith has prevented more serious issues pressed by experiments. 
Balance is needed.
Giving science a clean slate, the human race would have been eliminated a long time ago.

Talk about abuse, how many times has science given completely healthy people diseases to try to develop biological weapons?
How many experimental surgeries were done with bad outcomes? How many deaths are happening in the wake of medical health?
Science is the backer of Technology.
How many bombs has science made, how many weapons, how many earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados caused by pollution.

I am not saying science is the issue, but balance is needed.
This balance happens during a child's education.

An extreme viewpoint is to think that religion is on an island by itself, apart from logic and reason.

When it is religious people who developed logic and reason.

If a child decides to go a different way after being taught something all their life, I believe they should be given that liberty.

But not to give the child anything I believe would hinder them.

And you know the big difference between an accidental death that occurred because of a scientific mistake as opposed to a religious fanatic that deliberately caused the death/abuse of another is that the Scientists recognize this, feel remorse and do everything in their power to ensure that a case like that never happens again! Whereas a religious fanatic feels no remorse but deep euphoria instead because they believe that they are serving God and doing What's right. Who do you consider the more humane party here? I know who I would choose as being the most humane.

Sand

My point is balance is needed.

Not teaching children religion is like not teaching children computers.

It could be said that religion needs to improve in their delivery.

Sand

I believe science is growing, and religious understanding is stagnant.

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

@Plaffelvohfen

@Dee

https://www.sheldrake.org/reactions/richard-dawkins-comes-to-call

"Richard Dawkins Comes to Call"

"A crusading atheist and author ofThe God Delusion, Richard Dawkins was Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University. He is a Fellow of CSI (The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, formerly CSICOP) and a strong supporter of James Randi. His earlier books were on evolutionary biology, the best known beingThe Selfish Gene. In 2007, he visited Rupert to interview him for his TV series Enemies of Reason."

"By Rupert Sheldrake"

"Richard Dawkins is a man with a mission — the eradication of religion and superstition, and their total replacement with science and reason."

"Soon before Enemies of Reason was filmed, the production company, IWC Media, told me that Richard Dawkins wanted to visit me to discuss my research on unexplained abilities of people and animals. I was reluctant to take part, but the company's representative assured me that "this documentary, at Channel 4's insistence, will be an entirely more balanced affair than The Root of All Evil was." She added, "We are very keen for it to be a discussion between two scientists, about scientific modes of enquiry". So I agreed and we fixed a date. I was still not sure what to expect. Was Richard Dawkins going to be dogmatic, with a mental firewall that blocked out any evidence that went against his beliefs? Or would he be open-minded, and fun to talk to?"

"The Director asked us to stand facing each other; we were filmed with a hand-held camera. Richard began by saying that he thought we probably agreed about many things, "But what worries me about you is that you are prepared to believe almost anything. Science should be based on the minimum number of beliefs."

"I agreed that we had a lot in common, "But what worries me about you is that you come across as dogmatic, giving people a bad impression of science." 

"He produced no evidence at all, apart from generic arguments about the fallibility of human judgment. He assumed that people want to believe in "the paranormal" because of wishful thinking."

@Sand

"I believe science is growing, and religious understanding is stagnant."

Religious understanding, is doing fine, and well.

Every week across the United States, families are going to a religious building, with their families, to share in a community voice, and experience.

And giving back to the community, via helping the homeless, and running food banks.

ZeusAres42

Sand said:

I believe science is growing, and religious understanding is stagnant.

Interesting you should mention that since there is about 85% of Christians in the US. However, out of that number only about 35% or less have actually studied the Bible. And, no going to church on Sunday or reading a few passages in the bible every now and then doesn't count. This is also another thing that bugs me, that about half the people of the US who call themselves Christian and go about preaching it actually know very little about it. They also demonstrate this with what they say and how they preach what they preach; this really is an insult to actual sincere Theists that have invested years and that take their religious faith and studies seriously let alone an insult to non-theists.

What these hypocritical "so-called Christians" also do is give their own religion a bad name and drive people away from it. This really is a shame as it is also, unfortunately, making those sincere, loving, kind, reasonable, and non-preaching Christians a bad name.

Plaffelvohfen

Sand said:

My point is balance is needed.

Not teaching children religion is like not teaching children computers.

How so? Computer literacy is demonstrably an advantage in modern societies, I fail to see how religion literacy give any advantage in 2019...

Do you differentiate between to inform and to teach? Some may not... I would agree that we need to inform children about religions, but teaching? I don't see the need...

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

So I'm guessing that you didn't like the article by the below author: Dr. Azarian

Bobby Azarian Ph.D.

Mind In The Machine

https://www-psychologytoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201810/how-religious-fundamentalism-hijacks-the-brain?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201810/how-religious-fundamentalism-hijacks-the-brain 

"How Religious Fundamentalism Hijacks the Brain

Fundamentalist ideologies act like mental parasites."

"In moderation, religious and spiritualpractices can be great for a person’s life and mental well-being. But religious fundamentalism—which refers to the belief in the absolute authority of a religious text or leaders—is almost never good for an individual. This is primarily because fundamentalism discourages any logical reasoning or scientific evidence that challenges its scripture, making it inherently maladaptive."

"It is not accurate to call religious fundamentalism a disease, because that term refers to a pathology that physically attacks the biology of a system. But fundamentalist ideologies can be thought of as mental parasites. A parasite does not usually kill the host it inhabits, as it is critically dependent on it for survival. Instead, it feeds off it and changes its behavior in ways that benefit its own existence. By understanding how fundamentalist ideologies function and are represented in the brain using this analogy, we can begin to understand how to inoculate against them, and potentially, how to rehabilitate someone who has undergone ideological brainwashing—in other words, a reduction in one’s ability to think critically or independently.

How Religious Ideologies Spread

Similar to how organisms and their genescompete for survival in the environment and gene pool, ideas compete for survival inside brains, and in the pool of ideas that inhabit them. The famous evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has used this insightful analogy to explain how ideas spread and evolve over time. In his influential 1976 book, The Selfish Gene, he refers to ideas as “memes” (the mental analog of a gene), which he has defined as self-replicating units that spread throughout culture. We are all familiar with many types of memes, including the various customs, myths, and trends that have become part of human society."

"As Dawkins explains, ideas spread through the behavior that they produce in their hosts, which is what enables them to be transmitted from one brain to another. For example, an ideology—such as a religion—that causes its inhabitants to practice its rituals and communicate its beliefs will be transmitted to others. Successful ideas are those that are best able to spread themselves, while those that fail to self-replicate go extinct. In this way, some religious ideologies persist while others fade into oblivion.

It is easy to see why religion quickly spread through culture once it emerged. When humans gained the cognitive capacity to reason and plan for the future, they became aware of their own mortality. The realization that oneself and all one’s loved ones will someday die is naturally terrifying, and this existential fearperfectly set the stage for anxiety-reducing ideas, like ones that offer a never-ending afterlife. But religions are complex ideas, and the psychological effects they have on minds go beyond just relieving anxiety.

Essentially, the brain is a biological computer, and an ideology is a set of coded instructions, or “cultural software,” that is running on the brain’s hardware. Esteemed philosopher and cognitive scientist Daniel Dennett insightfully described how ideas can control minds when he said, “The haven all memes depend on reaching is the human mind, but a human mind is itself an artifact created when memes restructure a human brain in order to make it a better habitat for memes.” In this regard, it is often not the brain that controls the mind, but the memes that compose the mind that control the brain. This is especially the case when the meme is a religion. "

"Religions Mutate

Like genes and gene complexes, when an ideology is replicated—or passed from one person or group to another—it undergoes mutations. As a consequence, different versions of that belief system are produced, which generate different types of behavior. As such, there are often good and bad variants of any given religion. For instance, there are moderate versions of Christianity and Islamthat promote qualities like a sense of community and a moral code that fosters ethical behavior. These ideas can be beneficial to the host organism, i.e., the religious-practicing individual. At the same time, there are harmful variants of Islam and Christianity—specifically the rigid fundamentalist versions—that cause the host mind to process information in a biased way, think irrationally, and become delusional.

Ideological Viruses and Mental Parasites 

There are various types of viruses and parasites, and viruses are themselves parasites. While biological viruses are infectious agents that self-replicate inside living cells, computer viruses are destructive pieces of code that insert themselves into existing programs and change the actions of those programs. One particularly nasty type of computer virus that relies on humans for replication, known as a “Trojan horse,” disguises itself as something useful or interesting in order to persuade individuals to download and spread it. Similarly, a harmful ideology disguises itself as something beneficial in order to insert itself into the brain of an individual, so that it can instruct them to behave in ways that transmit the mental virus to others. The ability for parasites to modify the behavior of hosts in ways that increase their own “fitness” (i.e., their ability to survive and reproduce) while hurting the fitness of the host, is known as “parasitic manipulation.”

One particularly intriguing example of parasitic manipulation occurs when a hairworm infects a grasshopper and seizes its brain in order to survive and self-replicate. This parasite influences its behavior by inserting specific proteins into its brain. Essentially, infected grasshoppers become slaves for parasitic, self-copying machinery.

In much the same way, Christian fundamentalism is a parasitic ideology that inserts itself into brains, commanding individuals to act and think in a certain way—a rigid way that is intolerant to competing ideas. We know that religious fundamentalism is strongly correlated with what psychologists and neuroscientists call “magical thinking,” which refers to making connections between actions and events when no such connections exist in reality. Without magical thinking, the religion can’t survive, nor can it replicate itself. Another cognitive impairment we see in those with extreme religious views is a greater reliance on intuitive rather than reflective or analytic thought, which frequently leads to incorrect assumptions since intuition is often deceiving or overly simplistic.

We also know that in the United States, Christian fundamentalism is linked to science denial. Since science is nothing more than a method of determining truth using empirical measurement and hypothesis testing, denial of science equates to the denial of objective truth and tangible evidence. In other words, the denial of reality. Not only does fundamentalism promote delusional thinking, it also discourages followers from exposing themselves to any different ideas, which acts to protect the delusions that are essential to the ideology.

If we want to inoculate society against the harms of fundamentalist ideologies, we must start thinking differently about how they function in the brain. An ideology with a tendency to harm its host in an effort to self-replicate gives it all the properties of a parasitic virus, and defending against such a belief system requires understanding it as one. When a fundamentalist ideology inhabits a host brain, the organism’s mind is no longer fully in control. The ideology is controlling its behavior and reasoning processes to propagate itself and sustain its survival. This analogy should inform how we approach efforts that attempt to reverse brainwashing and restore cognitive function in areas like analytic reasoning and problem-solving."

The above is one individuals opinion, and then the individual name drops, "Richard Dawkins," I guess to reinforce their individual opinions?

@ZuesAres42

"Since I started this debate I would think I know exactly what it is about. You obviously don't and you demonstrate with every post in this thread. And what's more, is that you arrogantly believe you're right and superior with every moronic post. I claimed someone else one here was an example of the Dunning Kruger effect. You are the ultimate definition of it!

  

Dunning–Kruger effect

"From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence.[1]

As described by social psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the cognitive bias of illusory superiority results from an internal illusion in people of low ability and from an external misperception in people of high ability; that is, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."[1] "

@ZeusAres42

So now you're verbally charging me with COGNITIVE BIAS?

Prove that Religion is causing parents to abuse their own kids? 

How many court cases, have there been presented to the UK where Religion is being used by parents to abuse their kids? 

Dee

@TKDB

Why don’t you tell !ane Craig you want atheism on trial?

Why not arrest atheism and put it in trial maybe?

Why not spread you anti Atheist worldview via international news media?

Why not write a book to spread your anti Atheist rhetoric 

Why not start a debate site with your Christian friends maybe to spread your anti Atheist rhetoric and mindset?

So, please continue on, and educate the internet public, with your word's? 

TKDB

@Dee

Because you, and the other anti religious, are the only individuals who are in conflict with the Religions themselves, and the religious individuals, themselves, and nobody else, in real life, and on, the internet is?

Your words, are your own trial. 

And the Religions that I'm familiar with, I've yet to see or hear about in person, where Religion in general is being blamed for child abuse?


"Why don’t you tell !ane Craig you want atheism on trial?

Why not arrest atheism and put it in trial maybe?

Why not spread you anti Atheist worldview via international news media?

Why not write a book to spread your anti Atheist rhetoric 

Why not start a debate site with your Christian friends maybe to spread your anti Atheist rhetoric and mindset?

So, please continue on, and educate the internet public, with your word's?  

Dee

@TKDB


You say .......Because you, and the other anti religious, are the only individuals who are in conflict with the Religions themselves, and the religious individuals, themselves, and nobody else, in real life, and on, the internet is?

Your words, are your own trial. 

And the Religions that I'm familiar with, I've yet to see or hear about in person, where Religion in general is being blamed for child abuse?


"Why don’t you tell !ane Craig you want atheism on trial?

Why not arrest atheism and put it in trial maybe?

Why not spread you anti Atheist worldview via international news media?

Why not write a book to spread your anti Atheist rhetoric 

Why not start a debate site with your Christian friends maybe to spread your anti Atheist rhetoric and mindset?

So, please continue on, and educate the internet public, with your word's?  


My reply .....

Because you, and the other anti atheists are the only individuals who are in conflict with the Atheists themselves, and the atheist individuals, themselves, and nobody else, in real life, and on, the internet is?

Your words, are your own trial. 

And the Atheism that I'm familiar with, I've yet to see or hear about in person, where Atheism in general is being blamed for child abuse?


"Why don’t you tell !ane Craig you want atheism on trial?

Why not arrest atheism and put it in trial maybe?

Why not spread you anti Atheist worldview via international news media?

Why not write a book to spread your anti Atheist rhetoric 

Why not start a debate site with your Christian friends maybe to spread your anti Atheist rhetoric and mindset?

So, please continue on, and educate the internet public, with your word's?  

LEarningtobeterdebat

I believe that religion is not ever a child abuse because religion itself can teach a child to behave better and know a more understanding of the religion and also , because its not really hurting the child.

TKDB

@Dee

My response to you.

"Richard Dawkins Comes to Call"

"A crusading atheist and author ofThe God Delusion, Richard Dawkins was Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University. He is a Fellow of CSI (The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, formerly CSICOP) and a strong supporter of James Randi. His earlier books were on evolutionary biology, the best known beingThe Selfish Gene. In 2007, he visited Rupert to interview him for his TV series Enemies of Reason."

"By Rupert Sheldrake"

"Richard Dawkins is a man with a mission — the eradication of religion and superstition, and their total replacement with science and reason." 

Maybe the above is why some of the anti religious, express themselves, via their choice, anti religious philosophies? 

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

@Plaffelvohfen

"Richard Dawkins Comes to Call"

"A crusading atheist and author ofThe God Delusion, Richard Dawkins was Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University. He is a Fellow of CSI (The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, formerly CSICOP) and a strong supporter of James Randi. His earlier books were on evolutionary biology, the best known beingThe Selfish Gene. In 2007, he visited Rupert to interview him for his TV series Enemies of Reason."

"By Rupert Sheldrake"

"Richard Dawkins is a man with a mission — the eradication of religion and superstition, and their total replacement with science and reason." 

Maybe the above is why some of the anti religious, and others, in general, express themselves, via their choice, individually voiced philosophies? 

Dee

@TKDB

"William Lane Craig  Comes to Call"

neither classical physics nor quantum physics suggests in any way that God cannot intervene miraculously in the series of secondary causes in the world to produce certain events and that such actions and events are entirely compatible with the laws of physics. Theologians in the much publicized Divine Action Project, who typically hold that physics requires noninterventionist accounts of divine action, come away from this discussion, frankly, with egg on their faces. It is much to be hoped that theologians engaged in the dialogue between science and theology will profit 

"William Lane Craig  is a man with a mission — the eradication of reason and belief instead  he wants reason replaced with nonsense and pseudoscience”

Maybe the above is why some of anti Atheist , express themselves, via their choice, anti Atheist philosophies? 

TKDB

@Dee


"William Lane Craig  is a man with a mission — the eradication of reason and belief instead  he wants reason replaced with nonsense and pseudoscience”

Prove your claim?

Where is your evidence, of the very quotation, of Mr. Craig, making the above statement?

Do you have a link to his statement?


And, I'll take your silence, as being a supporter of Richard Dawkins ideological views?

And I'm an independent from, "William Lane Craig."
He has zero influence in my life.

So you, recycling his name, over and over again, for your own interests, is on you, because you don't have a counter anti religious argument, to support your own words?

So thank you for educating me even more, on your anti religious education.

Dee

@TKDB

You say .....Prove your claim?

My reply .....Maybe take Mr Craig to court and ask him about his Anti Atheist rhetoric?

You say .....Where is your evidence, of the very quotation, of Mr. Craig, making the above statement?

My reply ......Maybe hold a news conference and ask Mr Craig about his claims 

You say .....Do you have a link to his statement?

My reply .....Maybe ask Mr Craig in a news conference for a link?

You say ........And, I'll take your silence, as being a supporter of Richard Dawkins ideological views?

My reply .....And, I'll take your silence, as being a supporter of Lane Craig’s superstitious views?

You say ......And I'm an independent from, "William Lane Craig”

My reply .....And I'm an independent from, Richard Dawkins 
."
You say ......He has zero influence in my life.

My reply ......He has zero influence in my life.

You say ......So you, recycling his name, over and over again, for your own interests, is on you, because you don't have a counter anti religious argument, to support your own words?

My reply .......So you, recycling his name, over and over again, for your own interests, is on you, because you don't have a counter anti Atheist  argument, to support your own words?

So thank you for educating me even more, on your anti atheist  education. 

ZeusAres42

@Dee

Well, if you can't reason with some people you may as well have fun with them and do the same thing to them as they do to us.

Dee

@ZeusAres42

It’s the medicine he deserves and he doesn’t like it when it’s back at him , he’s obsessed with Dawkins for some reason 

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

"Well, if you can't reason with some people you may as well have fun with them and do the same thing to them as they do to us."

Have fun with me?

Here's the issue with Mr. Dawkins, isn't he, basically in a sense,  the unofficial head Athiest of the anti religious movement?

And some have described him as an Extreme Athiest? 

And his mission is this?

"Richard Dawkins is a man with a mission — the eradication of religion and superstition, and their total replacement with science and reason." 

Do you subscribe to Mr. Dawkins anti religious perception, and his apparent mission to eradicate Religion?

@Dee

"It’s the medicine he deserves and he doesn’t like it when it’s back at him , he’s obsessed with Dawkins for some reason."

The truth is Mr. Dawkins appears to maybe be obsessed with his individual anti Religious mindset?

He's written books apparently based on his individual anti Religious opinion? 

Your anti religious rhetoric, pales in comparison to his anti religious rhetoric.

And any true athiest, by now has educated themselves on his opinions, because he has gone out of his way, to make himself a public figure, because of his anti religious rhetoric.

Dee

@TKDB

Here's the issue with Mr. Craig , isn't he, basically in a sense,  the unofficial head Christian of the anti Atheist movement?

And some have described him as an Extreme Christian ? 

And his mission is this?

"William Lane Craig is a man with a mission — the eradication of Atheism and reason , and their total replacement with superstition  and religion." 

Do you subscribe to Mr. Craig’s  anti Atheism perception, and his apparent mission to eradicate Reason?

@Dee 

"It’s the medicine he deserves and he doesn’t like it when it’s back at him , he’s obsessed with Dawkins for some reason."

The truth is Mr Craig  appears to maybe be obsessed with his individual anti Atheist  mindset?

He's written books apparently based on his individual anti Atheist opinion? 

Your anti Atheist  rhetoric, pales in comparison to his anti Atheist rhetoric.

And any true Christian , by now has educated themselves on his opinions, because he has gone out of his way, to make himself a public figure, because of his anti Atheist rhetoric.

John_C_87

So meanwhile. Back on the incriminating truth farm.

https://www.ancient.eu/babylon/

GOD Direct Translation as a form of early algebra = 400, 11, 500. Interpreted as a basic mathematic principle 500 – (400 + 11) = 89 realistically pillaged or just plagiarized by the Roman empire among other empires  some 4,000 B.C. + or -

 https://www.britannica.com/place/Babylon-ancient-city-Mesopotamia-Asia

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-history-of-algebra-1788145

TKDB

I find it stunning, that none of the anti religious individuals thus far, aren't running to defend Mr. Dawkins, and his anti religious argument?

After all isn't, "Religion Ever Child Abuse?"

TKDB

@Dee

I'm sorry, but why shouldn't some parents, maybe be offended when they, read this as a statement? 

"Is Religion Ever Child Abuse?"

Shouldn't there be some kind of evidence, to support such a claim, so that the Religious parents can be educated on the expressed statement?