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Barriers to women in the workplace (leadership positions)

Debate Information

Women are 21 percent less likely than men to be promoted to the first level of management, according the report. And women don't have the same access as men to people in powerful positions that could boost their careers. The report also points to the often-discussed gender wage gap, which starts at the entry level. Massachusetts' equal pay law, which went into effect in June, aims to improve pay equity.

At the mid-career level, women often find themselves sidelined in support roles instead of in positions that are stepping stones to leadership, according to the report. And mid-career women also "disappear" from the career pipeline because family responsibilities fall on them more so than their male counterparts.

- quote by https://www.wbur.org/bostonomix/2018/12/28/women-company-leadership-barriers-report



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  • MartinGocicMartinGocic 52 Pts   -  
    @hsingh1234
    Maybe most women just do not want to do jobs that mostly men do? Maybe they did not care to ascend to a higher position so they stopped persuading a career. And maybe they like to nurture their childreen so they do not work as hard at jobs as men.
    Men have to focus completely on their jobs,while women nowadays have to focus on both jobs and raising their child so naturally they cannot do both things so well. However,those women who persue just their careers,they will likely be good at them. Thanks to third wave feminism,now women and men have to work alot harder than before in order to be respected by the public. Now men are expected to have great careers and women are expected to have that too,plus take care of childreen. There is no wage gap, as a lot of successful women can state. You will get paid like the person next to you if you do as good a job.
    WinstonCZombieguy1987
  • jesusisGod777jesusisGod777 115 Pts   -  
    Women are less likely to be promoted based on individual performance.

    Considering most CEOs employ women who have no qualifications to do the job listed on a website, they wind up being employed by a company when they have zero expierience earning a high salary.

    Don't be one of those people trying to appeal to a women's sense of self-interest. You're going to get burned.

    If you've ever worked with women, you realize it's not sexist to state what everyone oberserves, they DONT work.

    It's equally to say they want to work and be independent when they don't.

    If women were INDEPENDANT and could take care of themselves and wanted to be alone they wouldn't

    1. Take any child that was born into a life they wouldn't include an adult person in

    How much less time do they have to give to a child if they have no time for a relationship

    2. Take any child support payments

    3.ever get married

    4.do zero work, wind up getting fired and suggest someone's sexist.

    The reason men don't employ women is because they collectively identify as feminists who don't work.

    To a women being a women assumes some social ideology that they have to be taken care of while claiming Independence.

    I'll tell you what. When you and an independent man go out do you pay for his food, no because he's INDEPENDANT.

    No one employs a person who wants to say they are INDEPENDANT and doesn't work.

    If you've ever been in charge of a women before, they are LAZY, LAZY. Don't do anything, complain, talk on their phone all day, get home from NOT working, Complain about their long hard day at work and then TALK on their phone for hours and talk about how bad life is, talk about how their boss is rude without mentioning it's because they didn't want to do the work in the job description, probably got reprimanded for it and then get bored when someone isn't shoving texts into their phone inbox.

    People were never created by Jesus to be independent. However, these modern women are useless for anything other than complaining.

    There are a few who Jesus has converted that aren't so bad but the majority should be homeless.

    If it wasn't for some pervert out there who didn't want to commit an act of sexual immorality, women would die out as a sex because of their lack of work ethic.

    Jesus is Lord.

    Second don't even think I care about being called sexist. Everyone realizes it but doesn't say a thing. I don't even know why people agree to this culture of favoring lazy people who complain about everything.
    MartinGocic
  • jesusisGod777jesusisGod777 115 Pts   -  
    Here's a little reality. Because women have pissed off a lot of men, a male HR employee won't hire them.

    Women make up the majority of HR departments and hire women.

    So what are you talking about even?
    MartinGocic
  • WinstonCWinstonC 208 Pts   -   edited August 2019
    @hsingh1234 Why do women occupy positions of power less than men? They simply don't want them as much. A feminist study suggests only 40% of women want senior leadership positions, opposed to 56% of men (1). Further, studies suggest that women value power less than men do and have lower level ideal positions (2). Men are also more likely to apply for positions they felt were above their qualifications and ability than females (3). Since confidence is linked to testosterone levels (4) this means that there are concrete biological reasons that more men are in positions of power than women.

    Why would such sex differences emerge? Women are more attracted to those of higher economic status, whereas men are more attracted to youth and beauty (5,6). This means that the male drive for greater status is motivated in part by their sexual drive. Those that are more motivated to do something are of course more likely to try to do it. In accordance with this, we would expect females to be more motivated than males to look better and spend more effort on their appearance, which is indeed the case (7). The male sex drive fuels a rise in status, while the female sex drive fuels greater attractiveness. This makes sense, because in our evolutionary past females needed a high status male to provide for her during pregnancy and early motherhood. As such, we evolved sexual preferences which maximize the survival rate of offspring via natural selection.

    As for the gender wage gap, it's merely a comparison of the average total wages earned by the groups male and female. It doesn't take into account extraneous variables such as hours worked, job role, qualifications, seniority/rank, tenure, agreeableness, etc. If you take a group of people who on average work less hours in less well paid fields, it is to be expected that they will get paid less on average than a group that on average works more hours in better paid fields.

    Sources:

    (1) https://womenintheworkplace.com/

    (2) https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/women-don-t-want-promotions-as-much-as-men-do

    (3) https://www.forbes.com/sites/womensmedia/2014/04/28/act-now-to-shrink-the-confidence-gap/#408ce4d34509

    (4) https://www.everydayhealth.com/low-testosterone/how-low-testosterone-can-erode-self-confidence.aspx

    (5) https://www.appsychology.com/IB Psych/IBcontent/Studies/Buss.htm

    (6) https://qlj2015.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/buss-1989-sex-differences-in-human-mate-preferences/

    (7) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1740144509001053

  • adesola_aadesola_a 66 Pts   -  
    This thread is simply shocking and borderline sexist.

    @hsingh1234 The mere assumption that a woman's main priorities lie between her home life and occupation is incorrect. Women have different goals, meaning some focus mainly on their job whilst some care more about their children.  Why must women be the one's who have to choose between her children and job? Isn't it obvious that both the husband/boyfriend and wife/girlfriend should take care and help their child? We are not still stuck in the 1900's, men are expected to look after their own children, not just play football/soccer with them at Christmas.

    Additionally, women do not go for leadership offers because a majority of the time, they are rejected. The underlying sexism in corporate and physical jobs are in fact, very apparent. It means women have to suffer with jobs that a way below their skill set, due to their gender. It is not by choice but instead force that women have to suffer with working in a lower skill bracket.

    @WinstonC Woman continuously dream of doing the jobs that traditionally men do. The percentage of women entering STEM (science, technology, engineering and maths) careers is increasing every month. The reason why this is only happening now is because woman have only been conditioned to either work at home, or do jobs that requires minimal amounts of physical endurance. 
    Wage gap is still a thing. No country in the world has introduced equal pay for women and men. In every profession, a man earns more than a woman. A man earns £($1.24) to a woman's 60p($0.74) 

    @jesusisGod777  Stop generalising people. I sincerely apologise that you have been lumped with women who sit on their phone, look at their nails and/or flick their hair when they're in their office. Trust me, I hate them too. However, not all women are like that. There are millions of women who put their work before anything else, me included. I am the opposite of lazy, I don't care for those who don't try, men and women alike. There are countless male CEO's who are corrupt, have cheated in business or have lied to get where they are today. It's immature and irresponsible of you to not acknowledge women's potential and instead belittle and reprimand them because of your own personal experiences. As opposed to being uncultured and close-minded, how about getting out of your profession and surrounding yourself with men and women who all want to achieve and strive in their career? Or maybe, if you have tried that, think. Maybe you're the problem? Perhaps the reason you hate women in leadership roles so much is because of the way you treat them? Instead, try and treat them like the educated, intelligent and responsible women they are. Do not demoralise them due to your own beliefs on them.

    @WinstonC In all due respect, that's disgusting. The very idea that you think women only work hard because of their sex appeal clearly shows the sort of person you are. Unlike most men, women are able to control themselves in a workplace and not spiral off into a sexual fantasy about Chad from marketing. If you really believe that, then maybe it's the men who desire the women - not the other way round. Women work hard because they want to, not because they want to impress someone. It's not secondary/high school. Grow up :)

    @jesusisGod777 Finally, the fact that women don't get leadership jobs because they have 'pissed of the male HR' is hilarious. What have they done to annoy the man? Look after his kids? Or maybe she hasn't done the second load of laundry up to his standard. The main reason is either that women "don't deserve such a high ranking position", the male HR is annoyingly traditional and only wants to employ male leaders or are simply scared by the fact that a woman has rule over him.

    I apologise if I sound like a ranting feminist, but this thread is clearly blinded by sexism and male pride that they fail to see that women aren't unqualified, scared or too busy with house work to do leadership jobs, but instead it is because they will always have to work harder than the average male to get what they want. 
  • @hsingh1234 ;

    The largest barrier to a woman in the workplace and world is the same as those that had been in legislation.  Women have not moved on legislation around a woman having been created all equal as a united state by their creator.

    Not denying the idea of prejudice held against women in a workplace by men, nor defending any limitations that should be in place, as a gender the female has not yet moved to create herself equal as a goal of legislation among other women before the law and the people. Men who have failed to live up to the idea of all men are created equal by their creator. May, in fact, turn out to be a poor position to hold in not noticing existence precedent.

    So, what is to be the better learning experience for a woman, education, or allowing her to fail equal to all men and let her learn by mistake?



  • WinstonCWinstonC 208 Pts   -  
    @adesola_a "Woman continuously dream of doing the jobs that traditionally men do."

    Some do, but the studies cited in my post above show that woman *on average* want them less than men do. Remember that talking about averages says nothing about the individual.

    "The percentage of women entering STEM (science, technology, engineering and maths) careers is increasing every month. The reason why this is only happening now is because woman have only been conditioned to either work at home, or do jobs that requires minimal amounts of physical endurance."

    Based on what evidence? The gender differences in job choice are the highest in the most egalitarian countries (1). In other words, where men and women are raised most similarly the gender differences in career choice are the highest. This runs completely opposite to the claim that sex differences in interest are culturally caused.

    "Wage gap is still a thing. No country in the world has introduced equal pay for women and men. In every profession, a man earns more than a woman. A man earns £($1.24) to a woman's 60p($0.74)"

    I already explained this. Among other factors, men work on average longer hours in better paid fields, in addition to the fact that they are disproportionately likely to seek out senior roles which are better paid (as cited above). If you are interested in the studies on the differences in life choices (and inherent differences) between men and women and how these lead to different monetary outcomes, please check out these links (2,3,4,5,6,7,8). A woman and man are not working the same hours at the same job for the same length of time getting different rates of pay because *this is illegal*. Note also that on average young women earn more than young men (9,10).

    "In all due respect, that's disgusting. The very idea that you think women only work hard because of their sex appeal clearly shows the sort of person you are."

    You might want to re-read what I said, because it isn't even close to what you're reacting to. I said that women on average are more inclined towards improving their physical appearance to attract mates while men are more inclined to increase their status in order to attract mates. The reason this is relevant is because higher status roles pay more. Sources for these claims were given in the post above.

    Sources:
    (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-equality_paradox
    (2) https://web.archive.org/web/20131008051216/http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf
    (3) http://money.howstuffworks.com/gender-gap1.htm
    (4) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/
    (5) http://oratorasaurus.tumblr.com/post/41131660349/the-so-called-pay-gap
    (6) http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=10630664
    (7) http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html? r=1&oref;=slogin
    (8) http://www.payscale.com/career-news/2009/12/do-men-or-women-choose-majors-to-maximize-income
    (9) http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html
    (10) https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/27/young-women-earning-more-men
  • ssppttzzssppttzz 14 Pts   -  
    I believe the real barrier is time. Currently, women are getting higher education at rates that dwarf men. Putting aside the obvious sexist and cultural barriers of entering leadership, I see the future bringing change.
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