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follow the road?
in Religion

By maxxmaxx 85 Pts
since God knows the future, are we doomed individually to follow that path?



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  • @maxx

    you're assuming that a god exists
    Plaffelvohfen
  • maxxmaxx 85 Pts
    yes I answered dryly; assuming that god exist@KdCuber
  • maxxmaxx 85 Pts
    assuming that god exists and knows the future, then are we individually doomed to follow that path?@maxx
  • Assuming that a creator does in fact exist and knows the future, that means that he knows, given the external circumstances surrounding us, that this this and that will happen. Hence, we are in some way "doomed" to follow a path, as any actions that we'd do in the future to "change" the path would have already been taken into account when God sees the future. 

    However, we DO NOT know our future, which is why the fact that we are doomed to follow a path isn't necessarily a bad thing, life is still exciting. 
  • @maxx

    It is said that God doesn't create people for the sake of sending them to hell. If we don't have free will, that means that everyone who will go to hell has no way of stopping that, because they don't have the free will to be able to control it. If they don't have free will, then God made them knowing that they couldn't do anything to stop themselves from going to hell. The bible says that's not what happens. God knows what will happen with his plan, but he allows us to make our own decisions. The bible argues that we are not doomed to follow a predetermined path. 
    Sand
  • maxxmaxx 85 Pts
    yet if he knows the futures of us all, then from his point of view, our paths are already pre-determined.@piloteer
  • yet if he knows the futures of us all, then from his point of view, our paths are already pre-determined.@piloteer

    An interesting thing to point out. Our futures are already pre-determined by God, yet why do so many people undeservingly die of horrible deaths (cancer etc...)? 
    What benevolent omnipotent God would do that?
  • @maxx

    The bible says God gives us the freedom to change our paths. We have free will. We can surprise him.  
    Sand
  • maxxmaxx 85 Pts
    if god is real we can not surprise him; assuming he knows all@piloteer
  • maxxmaxx 85 Pts
    perhaps(assuming god is real) the majority of us are mere fodder; or maybe God has a no interferance clause with the lower powers. perhaps  we have 2 directions and god knows both of them












    g@KdCuber
  • piloteerpiloteer 467 Pts
    edited September 2
    @maxx

    The bible explicitly says that we can change whatever path we're on, and there's more than one choice. The choices are infinite. The bible also says God does not create people for the sake of sending them to hell. If God exists, he does not doom us to be sent to hell without giving us the possibility to stop it from happening. There is nothing in the bible that says otherwise. If we're not assuming God is real, then the prospect of free will is also proven by science.      
    Sand
  • maxxmaxx 85 Pts
    can you point these verses out? ab out the infinite choices?  also; I kind of doubt that god would not send 1 to hell if he killed and raped and stole all his life and then asked forgiveness. and tell me the vers(s) about the bible saying we can change our paths aside from either follow god or jesus or not.  seems like those are our only 2 choices. not infinite ones. 
    @piloteer
  • piloteerpiloteer 467 Pts
    edited September 2
    @maxx

    •Proverbs 16:9

    9 In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps.

    • 1 Corinthians 10:13

    13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will always provide a way out so that you can endure it.

     •2 Peter 3:9

    9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, and some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

    •  Galatians 5:13

    13 You my brothers and sisters,  we're called to be free. But not to use your freedom to indulge in the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

    There are actually many many more, but you get the picture. The bible also says that we on earth don't know God's plan, so you don't know what God will forgive us for. Assuming God is real of course.  

    Sand
  • SandSand 86 Pts
    God does not know the future of all of us individually.
    He has the ability to lookup future events, but individual actions are left up to free will.

    Jeremiah 18:5-10 - "Then this message from the LORD came to me: “Israel, can’t I deal with you like this potter?” declares the LORD. “Look, Israel, like clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand. At one moment I may speak about a nation or a kingdom to uproot it, pull it down, or destroy it. But if that nation about which I spoke turns from its evil way, I’ll change my mind about the disaster that I had planned for it. At another moment I may speak about a nation or kingdom to build it or plant it. But if that nation does evil in my eyes by not obeying me, I’ll change my mind about the good that I said I would bring on it."

    Here God says he will change his mind regarding a decision he made, this is proof that God does not know the future of each individual.
    There are many scriptures like this.

    Ezekiel 18:21-29 - "“But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. “All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. “Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live? “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? “When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die. “Again, when a wicked man turns away from his wickedness which he has committed and practices justice and righteousness, he will save his life. “Because he considered and turned away from all his transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. “But the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?"

    Here God says if he says that they will live and the righteous person turns wicked, they will die for their wickedness, and vice versa.
    Proof God does not know your individual decisions.

    But it also shows that God takes no delight in the death of someone wicked.
    Hell is nothing like what people say it is.
    The scriptures show everything living when it dies goes to Hell.
    Hell is only a symbolic place of the dead.
    Fire is the symbol of destruction.
    The Bible doesn't mean people will burn in Hell.
    It means they will no longer be alive.

    Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20 - "For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return."

    "Breath" is the same word for "spirit".

    Ecclesiastes 9:2-3 - "It is the same for all, since the same event happens to the righteous and the wicked, to the good and the evil, to the clean and the unclean, to him who sacrifices and him who does not sacrifice. As the good one is, so is the sinner, and he who swears is as he who shuns an oath. This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead."

    Piloteer is right.
    Life in the Bible is a gift from God.

    piloteer
  • SandSand 86 Pts
    The righteous one has a chance to get life again, the wicked one goes from hell to the second death, where their "soul" is destroyed. The "soul" represents the individual.
    The Bible calls anyone in Hell as "sleeping", wicked or righteous. So the wicked will not feel anything as they move from hell to second death.
    Only the righteous get life again. - FYI
  • @Sand

    You know, if you agree with me, then go ahead and slap one of those agree icons onto my argument. I mean, I do like making arguments, but I also like the points I get.  
    Sand
  • maxxmaxx 85 Pts
    edited September 4
    for the very hairs on your head are numbered. for his eyes are on the ways of man and he sees all steps. it is very easy to find verses about God knowing everything. after all, one can not be omniscient  with out knowing everthing, including the futures of every single individual.@piloteer
  • SandSand 86 Pts
    Those scriptures show the vastness of his knowledge, this is understandable for a being that has lived as long as he has.
    When you look at a mountain from the bottom it is easy to believe there is no top.
    Hairs on your head is just statistics.
    Sees all steps because he has Angels to report the steps to him.

    Think about that comment in Groundhog Day "maybe [God] is not omnipotent he just been around so long he knows everything."
    If God is the ultimate scientist with unending life, some of the things he would do would seem impossible.
    When really it is possible, it is just we do not have the understanding yet.

    What if you could show an person a cellphone or a tazer in the 3rd century.
    What would they think when you take their picture?
    Or when you show them electricity, or render someone incapacitated without killing them.
    Or you show them a movie with computer graphics.
    When you look at a mountain from the bottom it is easy to believe there is no top.

    God has the ability to know future events, but like a loving person he chooses not to lookup everyones future.
    1 Corinthians 10:13 - "No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will always provide a way out so that you can endure it."
    Why make the way out when you know they will not take it?


  • And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”… (Genesis 2:16)

    Psalm 139

    1 You have searched me, Lord,
        and you know me.
    You know when I sit and when I rise;
        you perceive my thoughts from afar.
    You discern my going out and my lying down;
        you are familiar with all my ways.
    Before a word is on my tongue
        you, Lord, know it completely.
    You hem me in behind and before,
        and you lay your hand upon me.
    6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
        too lofty for me to attain.

    7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
        Where can I flee from your presence?
    8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
        if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
    9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
        if I settle on the far side of the sea,
    10 even there your hand will guide me,
        your right hand will hold me fast.
    11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
        and the light become night around me,”
    12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
        the night will shine like the day,
        for darkness is as light to you.

    13 For you created my inmost being;
        you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
    14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
        your works are wonderful,
        I know that full well.
    15 My frame was not hidden from you
        when I was made in the secret place,
        when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
    16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
        all the days ordained for me were written in your book
        before one of them came to be.
    17 How precious to me are your thoughts, God!
        How vast is the sum of them!
    18 Were I to count them,
        they would outnumber the grains of sand)—
        when I awake,) I am still with you.

    19 If only you, God, would slay the wicked!
        Away from me, you who are bloodthirsty!
    20 They speak of you with evil intent;
        your adversaries misuse your name.
    21 Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord,
        and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?
    22 I have nothing but hatred for them;
        I count them my enemies.
    23 Search me, God, and know my heart;
        test me and know my anxious thoughts.
    24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
        and lead me in the way everlasting.


    Without God your path is doomed, but the choice is freely yours...

    maxx
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