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Is Jesus Christ (pbuh) God?
in Religion

I challenge any christian to show me a clear verse where Jesus pbuh claims to be God or where he told his disciples to worship him.

Jesus never told anyone to worship him or that he is God andy ou will never find a clear statement from the lips of Jesus or his teachings where he tells anyone to do so.

However, there are clear veres that prove that Jesus only a man and a messenger of God and there are many examples which prove this:

He preached that there is one God and that God is the Father only:
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” John 17:3 KJV
So Jesus is clearly telling you the key to eternal life is that you must believe that “God the Father” is the only true God and Jesus is the messenger whom God has sent.
Jesus could have said here that you need to be baptised and born again in the spirit in order to receive eternal life.  He could have also said that you need to believe in God the father, Holy Spirit, and Jesus as the only true God. But he didn’t say that.

“And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?”
“And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
“And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.” Mark 12:28-30 KJV
With reference to the above verses, The Lord our God is one Lord, Jesus says. But we refer to God the Father as Lord, AND we refer to Jesus as lord. So that already makes two lords, it would be three if we call the Holy Spirit lord as well.

“And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”  Mark 10:17 KJV
“And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.’”  Mark 10:18 RSV

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” John 20:17
Jesus makes it clear here that he is not God. He states he will ascend to his father who is also our Father, his God who is also our God. He is not God nor the physical son of God, he is a mere man like us.

“God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24 RSV
Jesus is not referring to himself as God.


Jesus has no authority and can do nothing on his own:
“I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.” John 5:30 RSV
If Jesus is God, how is it that he can do nothing of himself? It is all by the will of God who sent Jesus as a prophet.

“He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.” John 14:24 RSV
Can’t Jesus speak for himself? He is a messenger, like all messengers God reveals His words through them (e.g. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Moses etc.).

“So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me;” John 7:16 RSV

“But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.” Luke 11:20 RSV

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.” John 12:49 KJV
Jesus is telling you here that he is being commanded by God what he should say and what he should speak, (God did the same with other prophets e.g. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Moses etc.) Surely if Jesus was God he would not have been commanded on what to say, he would have spoken for himself.

“… These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” John 14:24 NIV
If Jesus is divine, can he not speak of himself? Just like other prophets (Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah etc.) they do not always speak of themselves, God speaks through them.


Jesus does not have knowledge of the future:

“But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” Matthew 24:36 KJV

“But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” Mark 13:32 KJ

If Jesus was God, he would know the hour. Why doesn’t he know the hour?

Jesus is referring to himself as a man and not God.


I ask my Christian brothers and sisters to look at the Bible with an open mind. Read it as if you have never heard or read it before and read the words of Jesus and then you will discover his true teaching and the truth about him.

Peace



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Arguments

  • @LogicalThinker ;

    >>I challenge any christian to show me a clear verse where Jesus pbuh claims to be God or where he told his disciples to worship him.

    Your interest in the subject is commendable. The thing with Scripture is that doctrines are generally not understood on a single verse basis, context is very important and is gained through a study of the whole Bible. You also have to understand that all Scripture is from God and states exactly what God wants it to state, whether there are specific statements from someone or it says the same thing in a general narrative it’s all God speaking. All Scripture is “RED” letters.

    The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor.2:14)

    >>Jesus never told anyone to worship him or that he is God andy ou will never find a clear statement from the lips of Jesus or his teachings where he tells anyone to do so.

    You have to understand that God has come as a flesh and blood man and unless you can comprehend this union and the purpose of it you will not understand who Jesus is nor comprehend the things He says as God in the form of a man, the first born of a new creation, the first to be the only spiritually begotten Son of God. Adam was of the old creation and as a man failed that creation allowing sin and the devil to take over. This shows that no created being could ever rely solely upon themselves to uphold the things of God, only God is perfect in all His ways and we must completely depend on Him, only He can save us. Even the greatest of Angels had inequity found in him. 

    Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. (Heb. 2:14-15)

    The Word of God (second member of the triune Godhead) assumed a body of flesh and blood. He set aside the outward display of His deity and veiled His Godhead in a “robe of clay.” The apprehension of Christ in His place as man Godward, cannot be ignored, distinct and apart from the glory and attributes which belong only to God, in and in which Christ as part of the Godhead, a divine Person.

    He has been made to be the pattern for our lives, the leader of our salvation, God was born to us in the flesh, known to us as the Son of God, Son of Man, Jesus Christ, God with Us, our brother in whom we look for salvation because He is the way, the truth and the life, something only God can be. Because of the great love that God has He has come to us and stood by humanities side.

    “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us). (Mat.1 :23)

    >>However, there are clear veres that prove that Jesus only a man and a messenger of God and there are many examples which prove this:

    If Jesus is the pattern for our lives, and if He, hypothetically, went around speaking like God, then we would go around speaking like we are God, now we have a big problem.

    >>He preached that there is one God and that God is the Father only:
    “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” John 17:3 KJV

    >>So Jesus is clearly telling you the key to eternal life is that you must believe that “God the Father” is the only true God and Jesus is the messenger whom God has sent.

    When we look at these verses in their proper context the meaning becomes quite clear. Eternal life is obtained by knowing God and Jesus Christ. The only true God as in contrast with idols, which are no gods at all. This verse does not mean that Jesus Christ is not the true God, in fact His name is mentioned together with God the father’s as being the joint source of eternal life, meaning they are equal.

    When you start to understand and study the life of Jesus as a man, you will clearly be able to discern that His words are that of man Godwards, not God manwards.

    ...but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (Philippians 2:7-8)
    LogicalThinker
  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    Peace be upon him (PBUH) or ʿalayhi as-salām (SAAS) is a phrase religious muslims say whenever they refer to the name of the prophet Muhammad. ... The Qur'an 33:56 says "God and his angels send blessings on the Prophet. O you who believe! Send blessings on him, and salute him with all respect."

    Believing in God, Jesus, or Religion in general, is 1000% Voluntary.

    Just as not believing in God, Jesus, or Religion in general, is 1000% Voluntary.

    And from my experience, the internet, is where many go to, to get their anti religious arguments expressed, towards the Public, in general.

    Which makes the Internet, it's own global Refence Source. 

    LogicalThinkerZeusAres42

  • Thank you for your reply. God willing I can answer all your points and with God's help, convince you about the truth of Jesus PBUH:


    ".. You have to understand that God has come as a flesh and blood man and unless you can comprehend this union and the purpose of it you will not understand who Jesus is nor comprehend the things He says as God in the form of a man, the first born of a new creation, the first to be the only spiritually begotten Son of God. Adam was of the old creation and as a man failed that creation allowing sin and the devil to take over. This shows that no created being could ever rely solely upon themselves to uphold the things of God, only God is perfect in all His ways and we must completely depend on Him, only He can save us. Even the greatest of Angels had inequity found in him.."
    Please, can you quote a single verse where Jesus taught this idea or claimed that he is God come as flesh and a blood man? The fact is that Jesus never did claim this and this is just the teachings of the church.



    “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us). (Mat.1 :23)
    Did anyone ever call Jesus Emmanuel in the new testament or call himself this name? If you read the bible, nowhere, is he called Immanuel and he never called himself that name. Furthermore, how does Jesus being called Immanuel mean he is God? Many prophets have the word God in their names, for e.g. Elijah (
    My God is Yahweh/YHWH) Does that make Elijah God?



    When we look at these verses in their proper context the meaning becomes quite clear. Eternal life is obtained by knowing God and Jesus Christ. The only true God as in contrast with idols, which are no gods at all. This verse does not mean that Jesus Christ is not the true God, in fact His name is mentioned together with God the father’s as being the joint source of eternal life, meaning they are equal.
    Your explanation of John 17:3 does not fit the true meaning of what Jesus is saying. You claim that Jesus is saying that "Eternal life is obtained by knowing God and Jesus Christ". He says: "that they might know thee the only true God.." who is thee? The Father. And? There is a distinction which shows he is not equal. ".. and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" So the Father the only true God sent Jesus. If the Father is the only true God, then Jesus can't be God. That means he must be a messenger. Please read the context:

    After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
    “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. John 17:1-5

    If Jesus was God, why does God need authority?




    "..God was born to us in the flesh, known to us as the Son of God.."
    Son of God Is not meant to be literal. If we were to do this with other verses in the bible, we would have many ‘sons of God’. Below are more ‘sons of God’ that can be found in the bible. This should prove that Jesus was not a literal son of God:

    “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.”  Genesis 6:2 KJV

    “There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”  Genesis 6:4  KJV

    “And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:” Exodus 4:22 KJV

    “And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.” Exodus 7:1 KJV



    "..the way, the truth and the life.."
    “In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.”
    ”And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
    "And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know”
    “Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?”
    “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:2-6 KJV
    Jesus said I am going to my fathers house (heaven) and I go to prepare a place for you and you know where I am going and how to get there.

    Thomas said we don’t know where you are going and how do we know the way to get there. Jesus answered, I am the way, the truth. If you follow me and my teaching you will get there and have eternal life.
    Jesus was the messenger of that time and no man could get to heaven without recognising him as the messenger / messiah to come and following his teachings.
    Every messenger that was sent by our Father (God) would have said a similar thing: “I am a messenger of
    God, I am here to warn you. Follow me and do what I tell you to do, and you shall have eternal life”. The people of those times would have to obey their messengers of God. Noah would have said the same, Abraham, Moses etc. So in other words if you follow me (i.e. the messenger) you are following the Almighty God.


     


    I ask you my friend, to re-look at the Bible with an open mind and forget about what you have been taught by the chiurch and learn the truth about Jesus PBUH. If you do believe Jesus is God, then you have to believe that as he is the god of the Old Testament and New Testament, that he is very explict about who he is:

    “Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.”  Isaiah 44:8 KJV

    “Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him.”  Deuteronomy 4:35 KJV

    “Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.”  Deuteronomy 4:39 KJV

    “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:” Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV

    I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” Isaiah 42:8 KJV

    “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” Isaiah 44:6 KJV


    “Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.”  Isaiah 43:10 KJV

    “I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.” Isaiah 43:11 KJV



    Peace








  • TKDB said:
    Peace be upon him (PBUH) or ʿalayhi as-salām (SAAS) is a phrase religious muslims say whenever they refer to the name of the prophet Muhammad. ... The Qur'an 33:56 says "God and his angels send blessings on the Prophet. O you who believe! Send blessings on him, and salute him with all respect."

    Believing in God, Jesus, or Religion in general, is 1000% Voluntary.

    Just as not believing in God, Jesus, or Religion in general, is 1000% Voluntary.

    And from my experience, the internet, is where many go to, to get their anti religious arguments expressed, towards the Public, in general.

    Which makes the Internet, it's own global Refence Source. 

    How is the question "Is Jesus Christ God?" an anti-religious argument? Please educate and enlighten us all!

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    @ZeusAres42

    Being that you're not God, Jesus, or the Bible, I can't dignify your question, with the sought out answer that you're seeking. 

    Being that God, Jesus, and the Bible, educate those who are open, and understanding of God, Jesus, and the Bible, and that the three of them, are educating millions of individuals on a daily basis.

    "How is the question "Is Jesus Christ God?" an anti-religious argument? Please educate and enlighten us all!"
    ZeusAres42
  • TKDB said:
    @ZeusAres42

    Being that you're not God, Jesus, or the Bible, I can't dignify your question, with the sought out answer that you're seeking. 

    Being that God, Jesus, and the Bible, educate those who are open, and understanding of God, Jesus, and the Bible, and that the three of them, are educating millions of individuals on a daily basis.

    "How is the question "Is Jesus Christ God?" an anti-religious argument? Please educate and enlighten us all!"
    Does 815Irrelevant  mean anything to you?
    Plaffelvohfen

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    @ZeusAres42

    Nope.

    The below is very RELEVANT though, and you can't rationalize your way around my statement either.

    (Being that you're not God, Jesus, or the Bible, I can't dignify your question, with the sought out answer that you're seeking. 

    Being that God, Jesus, and the Bible, educate those who are open, and understanding of God, Jesus, and the Bible, and that the three of them, are educating millions of individuals on a daily basis.)




    ZeusAres42Plaffelvohfen
  • @TKDB

     :o 

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • TKDB said:
    @ZeusAres42

    Nope.

    The below is very RELEVANT though, and you can't rationalize your way around my statement either.

    (Being that you're not God, Jesus, or the Bible, I can't dignify your question, with the sought out answer that you're seeking. 

    Being that God, Jesus, and the Bible, educate those who are open, and understanding of God, Jesus, and the Bible, and that the three of them, are educating millions of individuals on a daily basis.)




    Yeah I thought it wouldn't mean anything to you. If you're not using a bot then the only other rational explanation for your continuous posting of stuff that has no pertinence to the discussions must be due to some serious psychological deficiency.

    Anyway, that's all you will here from me now. I am no longer even going to entertain your irrelevant posts.
    Plaffelvohfen

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    @ZeusAres42

    You're entitled to dispurse from your own mind what you wish.

    "Yeah I thought it wouldn't mean anything to you. If you're not using a bot then the only other rational explanation for your continuous posting of stuff that has no pertinence to the discussions must be due to some serious psychological deficiency.

    Anyway, that's all you will here from me now. I am no longer even going to entertain your irrelevant posts."

    But it has zero to do with the theme of the forum, does it? 

    "Is Jesus Christ (pbuh) God?"


    Yes Jesus, is God.

    And my same response to your rhetoric.

    @ZeusAres42

    (Being that you're not God, Jesus, or the Bible, I can't dignify your question, with the sought out answer that you're seeking. 

    Being that God, Jesus, and the Bible, educate those who are open, and understanding of God, Jesus, and the Bible, and that the three of them, are educating millions of individuals on a daily basis.) 

    ZeusAres42
  • @TKDB
    Do you believe Jesus is God? If so, can you provide me with evidence to support this? 
  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    @LogicalThinker

    Nope, I don't have to, my belief is my belief.

    Just as you voluntarily have your own notions. 

    Being that God, Jesus, and the Bible, educate those who are open, and understanding of God, Jesus, and the Bible, and that the three of them, are educating millions of individuals on a daily basis.
  • @TKDB

    I know your posts have nothing to do with the theme of this forum topic much like the majority of your posts on other debate topics.

    It's really simple. This topic is titled "Is Jesus God?" All of your posts on this topic thus far have absolutely nothing to do with the theme of this discussion. 

    I am now done with arguing about your obnoxious behaviour and time to engage in the actual discussion. 
    Plaffelvohfen

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • So, back on actual topic. Firstly, sorry to the OP for entertaining the previous flood of irrelevant information. 

    Now, as for the question is Jesus Christ God depends mainly on what sect of religion you adhere too. For example, some jews don't believe Jesus Christ is God but rather just the king of the Jews that also happened to be rather extraordinary individual. 

    Furthermore, you also have different sects within the Christian faith that have different views about who Jesus Christ was.

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    edited October 5
    @ZeusAres42

    This response is within the theme of the forum.

    And Jesus is God, and you can treat my words however you wish.

    (Being that you're not God, Jesus, or the Bible, I can't dignify your question, with the sought out answer that you're seeking. 

    Being that God, Jesus, and the Bible, educate those who are open, and understanding of God, Jesus, and the Bible, and that the three of them, are educating millions of individuals on a daily basis.) 

    And your words:

    "I know your posts have nothing to do with the theme of this forum topic much like the majority of your posts on other debate topics.

    It's really simple. This topic is titled "Is Jesus God?" All of your posts on this topic thus far have absolutely nothing to do with the theme of this discussion. 

    I am now done with arguing about your obnoxious behaviour and time to engage in the actual discussion."

    @ZeusAres42
     
    And the words of God, Jesus, and the Bible, are a Global phenomenon, because Jesus was crucified.

    Crucified because those Priests challenged him to provide proof, to support his choice words, and the actions after his death, became the very proof that those non believing Priests received.

    He rose three days, after his death.

    And his predictions played out via this:

    (Some reference material)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_13

    "Mark 13 is the thirteenth chapter of the Gospel of Mark in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. It contains Jesuspredictions of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem and disaster for Judea, as well as his eschatological discourse.[1][2] "

    https://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2012/03/30/march-30-2012-where-was-jesus-buried/10645/

    "Where Was Jesus Buried?

    March 30, 2012

    KIM LAWTON, correspondent: During Holy Week, Christians remember the familiar story of Jesus’s death and resurrection. But exactly where does that story take place? The Bible offers only a few clues.

    REV. MARK MOROZOWICH (Catholic University of America): The Gospels weren’t really written to record a history. 

    They were written to provide a testimony of faith.

    LAWTON: According to the New Testament, Jesus was crucified at a spot outside Jerusalem called Golgotha, which in Aramaic means “place of the skull.” The Latin word for skull is calvaria, and in English many Christians refer to the site of the crucifixion as Calvary. The Gospel of John says there was a garden at Golgotha, and a tomb which had never been used. Since the tomb was nearby, John says, that’s where Jesus’s body was placed. The Gospel writers say the tomb was owned by a prominent rich man, Joseph of Arimathea. They describe it as cut out of rock, with a large stone that could be rolled in front of the entrance.

    Father Mark Morozowich is acting dean of the School of Theology and Religious Studies at the Catholic University of America."







    ZeusAres42
  • TKDB said:
    @ZeusAres42

    This response is within the theme of the forum.

    And Jesus is God, and you can treat my words however you wish.

    (Being that you're not God, Jesus, or the Bible, I can't dignify your question, with the sought out answer that you're seeking. 

    Being that God, Jesus, and the Bible, educate those who are open, and understanding of God, Jesus, and the Bible, and that the three of them, are educating millions of individuals on a daily basis.) 

    And your words:

    "I know your posts have nothing to do with the theme of this forum topic much like the majority of your posts on other debate topics.

    It's really simple. This topic is titled "Is Jesus God?" All of your posts on this topic thus far have absolutely nothing to do with the theme of this discussion. 

    I am now done with arguing about your obnoxious behaviour and time to engage in the actual discussion."

    @ZeusAres42
     
    And the words of God, Jesus, and the Bible, are a Global phenomenon, because Jesus was crucified.

    Crucified because those Priests challenged him to provide proof, to support his choice words, and the actions after his death, became the very proof that those non believing Priests received.

    He rose three days, after his death.

    And his predictions played out via this:

    (Some reference material)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_13

    "Mark 13 is the thirteenth chapter of the Gospel of Mark in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. It contains Jesuspredictions of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem and disaster for Judea, as well as his eschatological discourse.[1][2] "

    https://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2012/03/30/march-30-2012-where-was-jesus-buried/10645/

    "Where Was Jesus Buried?

    March 30, 2012

    KIM LAWTON, correspondent: During Holy Week, Christians remember the familiar story of Jesus’s death and resurrection. But exactly where does that story take place? The Bible offers only a few clues.

    REV. MARK MOROZOWICH (Catholic University of America): The Gospels weren’t really written to record a history. 

    They were written to provide a testimony of faith.

    LAWTON: According to the New Testament, Jesus was crucified at a spot outside Jerusalem called Golgotha, which in Aramaic means “place of the skull.” The Latin word for skull is calvaria, and in English many Christians refer to the site of the crucifixion as Calvary. The Gospel of John says there was a garden at Golgotha, and a tomb which had never been used. Since the tomb was nearby, John says, that’s where Jesus’s body was placed. The Gospel writers say the tomb was owned by a prominent rich man, Joseph of Arimathea. They describe it as cut out of rock, with a large stone that could be rolled in front of the entrance.

    Father Mark Morozowich is acting dean of the School of Theology and Religious Studies at the Catholic University of America."







    TKDB said:
    Peace be upon him (PBUH) or ʿalayhi as-salām (SAAS) is a phrase religious muslims say whenever they refer to the name of the prophet Muhammad. ... The Qur'an 33:56 says "God and his angels send blessings on the Prophet. O you who believe! Send blessings on him, and salute him with all respect."

    Believing in God, Jesus, or Religion in general, is 1000% Voluntary.

    Just as not believing in God, Jesus, or Religion in general, is 1000% Voluntary.

    And from my experience, the internet, is where many go to, to get their anti religious arguments expressed, towards the Public, in general.

    Which makes the Internet, it's own global Refence Source. 

    You still haven't explained how this post of yours has anything to do with this discussion which I have been challenging you to do so. When you can explain the relevance of this and/or admit that you made a mistake I will refrain from responding to any more irrelevant posts by you. Now time for me to get back to the actual discussion. You tkdb and your mind have fun with each other.
    Plaffelvohfen

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    @ZeusAres42

    You can "Say," whatever you want.

    My belief in God, Jesus, or the Bible, have Zero to do with what thoughts circulate through your own mind?

    Or how you personally live your life in the United Kingdom, right, or wrong? 

    Jesus Christ is God, and I don't have to validate anything to you. 

    Just like Jesus, didn't have to validate his beliefs, or his own words, before the eyes and ears of those same Priests who had him Crucified. 

    He died on the cross, as his way, to Validate his own Words.

    And Jesus, God, and the Bible, are bigger, and more popular, than the internet itself, could ever hope to be.

    Regardless of how the anti Jesus, God, or Bible crowds, go about day after day, teaching the internet, through their anti Jesus, God, or Bible, teachings.

    Again, Jesus, God, and the Bible are global.

    And the words of God, Jesus, and the Bible, have been around, for how long?

    Long, before, the internet, and it's websites, and Social Media, showed up?

    The words of Jesus and God, are just as alive as you and I are.

    And the evidence, to their word's being alive, the thousands of religious buildings around the World.

    And people, of various ages, pray, and go to the same religious buildings, nearly everyday.

    And why is this?

    Because the evidence, is Global. 
    ZeusAres42
  • @LogicalThinker

    Just to elaborate on my previous post toward you I would also like to add that some sects of the Christian faith see Jesus as the son of God while others see him as God and then there are others that see the statement about Jesus being God in more metaphorical ways.

    This is actually a subject often touched upon by Theistic scholars. So it's rather insulting  to theists who take their faith and studies seriously when some self proclaimed theist comes along and ignorently tells you that a common religious discussion is an anti religious discussion! 

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    edited October 5
    @ZeusAres42

    And to your "sect" commentary:

    No religious building, that I've gone to has any "sect," activity going on with them.

    But your use of the word, is very educational, so thank you for that.


    I looked up the definition;

    "sect
    /sekt/
    noun
    1. a group of people with somewhat different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong.
      Similar:
      (religious) cult"

    You can "Say," whatever you want.

    My belief in God, Jesus, or the Bible, have Zero to do with what thoughts circulate through your own mind?

    Or how you personally live your life in the United Kingdom, right, or wrong? 

    Jesus Christ is God, and I don't have to validate anything to you. 

    Just like Jesus, didn't have to validate his beliefs, or his own words, before the eyes and ears of those same Priests who had him Crucified. 

    He died on the cross, as his way, to Validate his own Words.

    And Jesus, God, and the Bible, are bigger, and more popular, than the internet itself, could ever hope to be.

    Regardless of how the anti Jesus, God, or Bible crowds, go about day after day, teaching the internet, through their anti Jesus, God, or Bible, teachings.

    Again, Jesus, God, and the Bible are global.

    And the words of God, Jesus, and the Bible, have been around, for how long?

    Long, before, the internet, and it's websites, and Social Media, showed up?

    The words of Jesus and God, are just as alive as you and I are.

    And the evidence, to their word's being alive, the thousands of religious buildings around the World.

    And people, of various ages, pray, and go to the same religious buildings, nearly everyday.

    And why is this?

    Because the evidence, is Global.  

    @ZeusAres42
    No commentary for the above? 
    ZeusAres42
  • @TKDB

    There are some Theistic courses you could try which might be of help to you when you come to debate stuff like this. I personally recommend the great courses website; you will find a plethora of information from well educated scholars in theism.

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    edited October 5
    @ZeusAres42

    Your own rhetoric, is PLENTY enough, of an education for me.

    And can you explain to your individual Theists brethren, why you view the below, as a "Fallacy?"

    Please, educate, the limited internet, with your follow-up rhetoric?


    You can "Say," whatever you want.

    My belief in God, Jesus, or the Bible, have Zero to do with what thoughts circulate through your own mind?

    Or how you personally live your life in the United Kingdom, right, or wrong? 

    Jesus Christ is God, and I don't have to validate anything to you. 

    Just like Jesus, didn't have to validate his beliefs, or his own words, before the eyes and ears of those same Priests who had him Crucified. 

    He died on the cross, as his way, to Validate his own Words.

    And Jesus, God, and the Bible, are bigger, and more popular, than the internet itself, could ever hope to be.

    Regardless of how the anti Jesus, God, or Bible crowds, go about day after day, teaching the internet, through their anti Jesus, God, or Bible, teachings.

    Again, Jesus, God, and the Bible are global.

    And the words of God, Jesus, and the Bible, have been around, for how long?

    Long, before, the internet, and it's websites, and Social Media, showed up?

    The words of Jesus and God, are just as alive as you and I are.

    And the evidence, to their word's being alive, the thousands of religious buildings around the World.

    And people, of various ages, pray, and go to the same religious buildings, nearly everyday.

    And why is this?

    Because the evidence, is Global.   

    ZeusAres42
  • TKDB said:
    @ZeusAres42

    Your own rhetoric, is PLENTY enough, of an education for me.

    And can you explain to your individual Theists brethren, why you view the below, as a "Fallacy?"

    Please, educate, the limited internet, with your follow-up rhetoric?


    You can "Say," whatever you want.

    My belief in God, Jesus, or the Bible, have Zero to do with what thoughts circulate through your own mind?

    Or how you personally live your life in the United Kingdom, right, or wrong? 

    Jesus Christ is God, and I don't have to validate anything to you. 

    Just like Jesus, didn't have to validate his beliefs, or his own words, before the eyes and ears of those same Priests who had him Crucified. 

    He died on the cross, as his way, to Validate his own Words.

    And Jesus, God, and the Bible, are bigger, and more popular, than the internet itself, could ever hope to be.

    Regardless of how the anti Jesus, God, or Bible crowds, go about day after day, teaching the internet, through their anti Jesus, God, or Bible, teachings.

    Again, Jesus, God, and the Bible are global.

    And the words of God, Jesus, and the Bible, have been around, for how long?

    Long, before, the internet, and it's websites, and Social Media, showed up?

    The words of Jesus and God, are just as alive as you and I are.

    And the evidence, to their word's being alive, the thousands of religious buildings around the World.

    And people, of various ages, pray, and go to the same religious buildings, nearly everyday.

    And why is this?

    Because the evidence, is Global.   

    When you include everything from your previous post then I will point out the fallacy.

    You would do well take my previous advice before you make yourself look any more foolish than you already do.
    Plaffelvohfen

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • @TKDB

    What an earth am I doing talking to you still? Silly me.

    Please, is there anyone else active this evening to have a proper discussion with? 

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    edited October 5
    @ZeusAres42

    No thanks, I'm following Jesus's example, and advice:

    Hence, my beliefs are sound, and do not require any explanation to you.

    So you may reflect on them, through any personal venue of thought, that suits your individually expressed mindset?

    @ZeusAres42

    IE, (You can "Say," whatever you want.

    My belief in God, Jesus, or the Bible, have Zero to do with what thoughts circulate through your own mind?

    Or how you personally live your life in the United Kingdom, right, or wrong? 

    Jesus Christ is God, and I don't have to validate anything to you. 

    Just like Jesus, didn't have to validate his beliefs, or his own words, before the eyes and ears of those same Priests who had him Crucified. 

    He died on the cross, as his way, to Validate his own Words.

    And Jesus, God, and the Bible, are bigger, and more popular, than the internet itself, could ever hope to be.

    Regardless of how the anti Jesus, God, or Bible crowds, go about day after day, teaching the internet, through their anti Jesus, God, or Bible, teachings.

    Again, Jesus, God, and the Bible are global.

    And the words of God, Jesus, and the Bible, have been around, for how long?

    Long, before, the internet, and it's websites, and Social Media, showed up?

    The words of Jesus and God, are just as alive as you and I are.

    And the evidence, to their word's being alive, the thousands of religious buildings around the World.

    And people, of various ages, pray, and go to the same religious buildings, nearly everyday.

    And why is this?

    Because the evidence, is Global.)

    Because my beliefs do not personally affect your life at all, now do they ZeusAres42?

    "When you include everything from your previous post then I will point out the fallacy.

    You would do well take my previous advice before you make yourself look any more foolish than you already do."


    ZeusAres42
  • TKDB said:
    @ZeusAres42

    No thanks, I'm following Jesus's example, and advice



    Jesus advice would have been that of honesty, integrity, humility and  of relevance. so no, You are most definitely not following his sage example at all and you demonstrate that with every sentence. You also demonstrate that your quite clueless when it comes to the Christian religion among other religions too.

    You will of course believe the opposite of what I say but then again so do schizophrenics believe the voices they hear are real when the rest of us know better. 
    Plaffelvohfen

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • @LogicalThinker ;

    >>Please, can you quote a single verse where Jesus taught this idea or claimed that he is God come as flesh and a blood man? 

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2 Timothy 3:16)

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. (John 1:1) ..., the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14) 

    God (A) = Word (B), Word (B) = Jesus (C), therefore God (A) = Jesus (C).

    We know that the Word was God in the absolute sense, because in Isaiah we learn;

    “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior. (Isaiah 43:10-11)

    Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: (2 Peter 1:1)

    Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope, To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. (1 Timothy 1:1-2)

    whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, (Tutus 3:6)

    This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, (1 Tim. 2:3)

    For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:11)

    For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe (1 Tim. 4:10)

    For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. (2 Peter 2:20)

    But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, (Titus 3:4)

    But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. (2 Peter 3:18)

    to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. (Jude 1:25)

    Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation. The LORD God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds’ feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places...(Habakkuk 3:18-19)

    Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: (2 Peter 1:1)

    If there is no savior besides God, and Jesus Christ is our savior one can only conclude that Jesus is God.

    I would hope that this point you will see the futility of your debate challenge, there is no ambiguity on this subject. Scripture clearly in many ways point’s to the fact that Jesus is God. It’s why He was worshipped as a child by the wise men (See Mat. 2:2), why his disciples worshipped Him (see Mat. 14:33), why Thomas said to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)

    >>Did anyone ever call Jesus Emmanuel in the new testament or call himself this name?

    If the Bible says He was called Immanuel, you can be sure He was. It doesn’t matter if it was specifically recorded or not.

    Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. (John 21:25)

    >>Furthermore, how does Jesus being called Immanuel mean he is God? Many prophets have the word God in their names, for e.g. Elijah My God is Yahweh/YHWH) Does that make Elijah God?

    Yahweh is Elijah’s God, that’s true, just as it’s true that Jesus is God with us. Just as it’s true that Jesus means God saves, because He is God who is our savior. Daniel means God is my Judge, God is Daniel’s Judge that’s true. Isaiah means God is salvation, salvation only comes from God, also true. 

    >>>Your explanation of John 17:3 does not fit the true meaning of what Jesus is saying. 

    That is what we are debating is it not?

    >>You claim that Jesus is saying that “Eternal life is obtained by knowing God and Jesus Christ”. He says: “that they might know thee the only true God..” who is thee? The Father. And? There is a distinction which shows he is not equal. “.. and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” So the Father the only true God sent Jesus. If the Father is the only true God, then Jesus can’t be God. That means he must be a messenger. Please read the context:

    When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (John 17:1-5)

    There is a distinction between the two, as there should be because they are separate persons, yet still one God. Why can’t God come with his own message, how does coming with His own message exclude Him from being God? 

    >>If Jesus was God, why does God need authority?

    The answer was in the previous post. Someone who is obedient is under obviously under some type of authority. God doesn’t need authority, however, God in the form of a man, put aside His authority and became obedient to the Father, chose to become a servant. Here it is again;

    ...but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (Philippians 2:7-8)

    >>>“..God was born to us in the flesh, known to us as the Son of God..”

    >>Son of God Is not meant to be literal. If we were to do this with other verses in the bible, we would have many ‘sons of God’. Below are more ‘sons of God’ that can be found in the bible. This should prove that Jesus was not a literal son of God:

    Jesus is not a son of God in the same literal sense that humans procreate and have children. In a strict sense believers are referred to as the sons of God by adoption ( See. Eph. 1:5, Rom 9:4). There is also the general sense of the meaning, that everyone that is created by God, is a son of God ( See Mal. 2:10). Jesus is however completely unique in this regard. I don’t think you can cross over the meaning of “literal” from a limited materialistic human perspective to that of an unlimited divine spiritual one, but it is still fair to say that Jesus is the "literal" Son of God, born of the Holy Spirit, who is God. He is the first born of a new creation, yet also pre-existing from eternity past.

    >>I ask you my friend, to re-look at the Bible with an open mind and forget about what you have been taught by the church and learn the truth about Jesus PBUH. If you do believe Jesus is God, then you have to believe that as he is the god of the Old Testament and New Testament, that he is very explict about who he is:

    >>“Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.”  Isaiah 44:8 KJV

    >>“Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him.”  Deuteronomy 4:35 KJV

    >>“Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.”  Deuteronomy 4:39 KJV

    Theses passages are quite clear, there is only one God, which is what Christians believe. Jesus Christ is not another god. None of these verses say; I the Father am the one and only God. In fact the following verse will give you some insight into what this oneness means.

    “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:” Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV

    The word “one” in this verse is translated from the Hebrew word “echad” which means “one in unity”, unlike the Hebrew word “yachid”, which means one in singularity. The above verse only supports the idea that God is one in unity with others, not alone in singularity. 

    “I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” Isaiah 42:8 KJV

    Yet, in John, God the father gives glory to the Lord Jesus Christ.

    The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. (17:22-23)

    The above verse gives you another lesson in oneness, the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew “echad” is used here “hen”. One in unity, not one in singularity.

    >>“Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” Isaiah 44:6 KJV

    Note there are two referred to as Jehovah in this text. To the apostle John on the island of Patmos, Christ lifted a phrase from that text and made application to himself: I am the first and the last, and the Living one (Revelation 1:17-18; cf. 2:8; 22:13). What is the significance of the expression first and the last? It is the well-known attribute of God. The utterance is a firm affirmation of deity on the part of the Lord Jesus Christ. Compare the similar expression applied to the Father in Revelation 1:8: I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God. Compare that with the description Christ in Revelation 22:13: I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last. The same divine expression identifies both Father and Jesus as God.

    Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 

    The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven

    ....But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. (Hebrews 1-8)

    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)

    While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. (The. 5:3)

    PlaffelvohfenLogicalThinker
  • TKDBTKDB 274 Pts
    @ZeusAres42 ;

    You can "Say," whatever you want.

    My belief in God, Jesus, or the Bible, have Zero to do with what thoughts circulate through your own mind?

    Or how you personally live your life in the United Kingdom, right, or wrong? 

    Jesus Christ is God, and I don't have to validate anything to you. 

    Just like Jesus, didn't have to validate his beliefs, or his own words, before the eyes and ears of those same Priests who had him Crucified. 

    He died on the cross, as his way, to Validate his own Words. 
    ZeusAres42Plaffelvohfen
  • Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"
    Answer: Some who deny that Jesus is God make the claim that Jesus never said that He is God. It is correct that the Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” This does not mean, however, that Jesus never claimed to be God.
    Take for example the words of Jesus in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33, emphasis added). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” This is a reference back to Exodus 3:14 when God revealed Himself as the “I AM.” The Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).
    John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:114). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God.
    Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as God, indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
    In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:1114:3328:917Luke 24:52John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. Beyond these, there are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus being God.
    The most important reason that Jesus must be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
    Is Jesus God? Yes. Jesus declared Himself to be God. His followers believed Him to be God. The provision of salvation only works if Jesus is God. Jesus is God incarnate, the eternal Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:822:13), and God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1).
    https://www.gotquestions.org/is-Jesus-God.html
  • Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"
    Answer: Some who deny that Jesus is God make the claim that Jesus never said that He is God. It is correct that the Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” This does not mean, however, that Jesus never claimed to be God.
    Take for example the words of Jesus in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33, emphasis added). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” This is a reference back to Exodus 3:14 when God revealed Himself as the “I AM.” The Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).
    John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:114). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God.
    Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as God, indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
    In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:1114:3328:917Luke 24:52John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. Beyond these, there are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus being God.
    The most important reason that Jesus must be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
    Is Jesus God? Yes. Jesus declared Himself to be God. His followers believed Him to be God. The provision of salvation only works if Jesus is God. Jesus is God incarnate, the eternal Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:822:13), and God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1).
    https://www.gotquestions.org/is-Jesus-God.html
    Apparently, according some people those that do not believe Jesus as God are anti-religious. Of course, you and I among many others know better. :)
    Sand

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.


  • My friend, this debate is not insult anyone, but rather to spread the truth about Jesus.

    They are not following his true teachings but the Church. As a believer in God and a person who loves Almighty God, it is my duty to spread the truth.
    Plaffelvohfen
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