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Should women be pastors?

Debate Information

I say, unequivocally and unquestionably yes.  There is no room to really say no in my opinion when you truly look at the context and culture of verses used in opposition to my stance.  Prove me wrong though.
itsnicolemate
  1. Live Poll

    Should women be pastors?

    13 votes
    1. Yes
      69.23%
    2. No
      30.77%



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    Arguments


  • 대왕광개토대왕광개토 235 Pts   -  
    I am confused by your title. Are you trying to say that women should be allowed to be pastors? Or are you trying to say that all women have to become pastors?
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 1121 Pts   -  
    It depends what you think.  The reason it is left to men is because the priest is supposed to be an intercessor of Jesus himself...who was man.  Now I might agree with you that the sex of Jesus doesn't really matter and that a woman could also intercede.  They are allowed to become nuns though and men can't.
    Neopesdom
  • SuperSith89SuperSith89 170 Pts   -  
    @대왕광개토 To clarify, as I realize it is a bit confusing, I am relating this to what John Macarthur recently said.  He said that there is no Biblical argument for allowing women to preach or be pastors in the church.  I say there is nothing stopping women from becoming pastors in the Bible.  
  • SuperSith89SuperSith89 170 Pts   -  
    @MichaelElpers I think the fact that we won't have gender in heaven just tells me that gender is really inconsequential in preaching or pastoring.  If God bestows the gifts of leadership or so on onto you, then by all means something like gender or race should not stand in the way.  
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 1121 Pts   -  
    @SuperSith89

    I guess the argument would be that he specifically bestowed his leadership and divinity to man...maybe for a reason.  Maybe the reason was just because at the time it was easier for a man to be more influential, and to be fully human he couldn't create a gender neutral entity.  Was there a reason Jesus chose 12 apostles that were men to lead the Church? Also Earth is different than heaven, men provide contribute different qualities than women.  One can be a leader in the catholic church without being a priest.  Really just playing devils advocate I haven't really made my mind up that you're wrong.
  • 대왕광개토대왕광개토 235 Pts   -  
    @SuperSith89 I agree with your claim then. The opportunity to become a pastor should not be limited to man only.
    ZeusAres42
  • SuperSith89SuperSith89 170 Pts   -  
    @MichaelElpers No you make good points.  I think it is important to note though how, before, circumcision was the way to be recognized as one of God's people.  Part of the first covenant.  It was seen as a much more male thing and over time the Jews got overly legalistic with it to the point where Jesus arrives.  Now, the covenant involves baptism through the spirit, and that can be for anyone.  The spirit does not pick and choose between genders for spiritual gifts, He just gives them.  And when Jesus instructs people, it is not He that brings up women in the church but Paul.  Making a distinction between Paul and Jesus is important because Paul's letters are much more culturally based.  Not like they do not apply, but they need to be read with context in mind.  I think there is a lot more to it too, but when it all comes down to it, it does not make sense to me to limit anyone in ministry because of a gender.  We might restrict someone who is transgender or who practices homosexuality, but as both involve sin while being a woman is not a sin...I don't know.  Usually I like Macarthur's stuff but this I dislike.  
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 3985 Pts   -  
    I said no, but I'm being overzealous and disingenuous in doing so, mea culpa...  :p

    They sure should be able to, if they really want to, but I think that no one at all "should" be pastor/priest, these occupations should go the way of the lamplighter and other long gone occupations...
    Neopesdom
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • billbatardbillbatard 133 Pts   -  
    sure lets the girls have a swing at this nonsesne
    Plaffelvohfen
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Plaffelvohfen

    What has ANY Religion ever personally done to you, personally?

    "Should women be pastors?"


    Sure, why not?

    I've seen women/ mom's in a religious building, taking care of their kids, and babies, right along with the men/ dad's.

    Learning about how to be more community, and family oriented.

    Because some individuals from those same religious buildings, give back to the community through soup kitchens, bake sales, and food drives, along with providing shelter, and clothing to families in need, and the homeless.

    So your below commentary, is outweighed by how the above situations, are very modern day, and current.

    And are not supported at all by your below choice of words?

    "They sure should be able to, if they really want to, but I think that no one at all "should" be pastor/priest, these occupations should go the way of the lamplighter and other long gone occupations."

    There are religious individuals, giving back to the families, the homeless, and the communities, around the religious buildings, as best as they can, through the very positive efforts that they make.

    That's how I view your unsupported argument. 

    @Plaffelvohfen

    Tell me something, what has the Athiest Cause ever done for their communities, or the homeless?
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • TKDB said:
    @Plaffelvohfen

    What has ANY Religion ever personally done to you, personally?

    "Should women be pastors?"


    Sure, why not?

    I've seen women/ mom's in a religious building, taking care of their kids, and babies, right along with the men/ dad's.

    Learning about how to be more community, and family oriented.

    Because some individuals from those same religious buildings, give back to the community through soup kitchens, bake sales, and food drives, along with providing shelter, and clothing to families in need, and the homeless.

    So your below commentary, is outweighed by how the above situations, are very modern day, and current.

    And are not supported at all by your below choice of words?

    "They sure should be able to, if they really want to, but I think that no one at all "should" be pastor/priest, these occupations should go the way of the lamplighter and other long gone occupations."

    There are religious individuals, giving back to the families, the homeless, and the communities, around the religious buildings, as best as they can, through the very positive efforts that they make.

    That's how I view your unsupported argument. 

    @Plaffelvohfen

    Tell me something, what has the Athiest Cause ever done for their communities, or the homeless?
    Atheism isn't a cause btw. If you're having trouble with what Atheism actually is perhaps if it is written like this might help: A-theism. Notice the hyphen? The word "a" in Atheism has its origin found in the Greek Language where it basically denotes to terms like"without, lack of, absent, etc" Think of this analogy for instance: if you buy something in a shop you're a buyer. Likewise, if you adhere to a Theistic religion you're a Theist; if not you're an A-theist. The credit for the hyphen goes to your friend Richard Dawkins by the way; that guy you claim is hostile to religions when in fact he is just pro-kids thinking for themselves, and hence why he once also got angry with Adults labelling kids Atheists in a Conference once.
    Plaffelvohfen



  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42

    Same ZeusAres4 rhetoric, different forum.


    "Atheism isn't a cause btw."

    And your point?
    Your rhetoric is a cause though isn't it? 

    "If you're having trouble with what Atheism actually is perhaps if it is written like this might help: A-theism. Notice the hyphen? The word "a" in Atheism has its origin found in the Greek Language where it basically denotes to terms like"without, lack of, absent, etc" Think of this analogy for instance: if you buy something in a shop you're a buyer. Likewise, if you adhere to a Theistic religion you're a Theist; if not you're an A-theist. The credit for the hyphen goes to your friend Richard Dawkins by the way; that guy you claim is hostile to religions when in fact he is just pro-kids thinking for themselves, and hence why he once also got angry with Adults labelling kids Atheists in a Conference once."


    @ZeusAres42
    What good are you doing in the world? 


    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • 대왕광개토대왕광개토 235 Pts   -  
    @TKDB You are entitled to your own perception and opinion. 
    ZeusAres42Plaffelvohfen
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @대왕광개토

    What has ANY Religion ever personally done to you, personally?

    What good are you doing in the world?




  • 대왕광개토대왕광개토 235 Pts   -  
    @TKDB You are entitled to your agenda driven opinion and perception.
    AmericanFurryBoyZeusAres42
  • TKDB said:
    @ZeusAres42

    Same ZeusAres4 rhetoric, different forum.


    Really? Your response is an immediate ad hominem? I mean how desperate can one get?

    "Atheism isn't a cause btw."

    And your point?
    Your rhetoric is a cause though isn't it? 


    Interesting. Looks like you're somewhat conceding at this point. As for the question this really does depend on what you mean by those words and the context in which you're using them. Since rhetoric is to do with persuasion my previous response cannot have anything to with rhetoric as I was giving an explanation of what A-theism actually is. My previous post was an expository one; not a persuasive one, and therefore nothing to do with rhetoric. Ref: https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-difference-between-expository-persuasive-292226. And the only cause my previous post was to inform and explain.


    What good are you doing in the world?

    This is a personal question and the answer is none of your business as well as not being anything to do with what this debate is about.


    Moreover, as for the topic "Should women also be Pastors" I actually have no preference whether they are men or women.





  • piloteerpiloteer 1577 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42

    Hi. I'm not really involved in this debate because I have no opinion on it. I just wanted to point out how that TKDB character always seems to follow you on every post you're involved in. Are you TKDB? I mean, we all know TKDB is a bot, and it would make sense if the bot was programmed by someone on this site. I think the clues are all falling into place now. Oh my god, why didn't I realize this earlier. It's so obvious that it was you all along. If you turn the letters of your name upside down, you can clearly see the letters TKDB. Why have you done this to us? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?    
    ZeusAres42
  • piloteer said:
    @ZeusAres42

    Hi. I'm not really involved in this debate because I have no opinion on it. I just wanted to point out how that TKDB character always seems to follow you on every post you're involved in. Are you TKDB? I mean, we all know TKDB is a bot, and it would make sense if the bot was programmed by someone on this site. I think the clues are all falling into place now. Oh my god, why didn't I realize this earlier. It's so obvious that it was you all along. If you turn the letters of your name upside down, you can clearly see the letters TKDB. Why have you done this to us? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?    
    You're kidding right lmao? I mean I hardly have the time to do given my current work with NASA manipulating the public about climate change ROFL.
    piloteer



  • piloteerpiloteer 1577 Pts   -  
    You're kidding right lmao? I mean I hardly have the time to do given my current work with NASA manipulating the public about climate change ROFL.
    I had a sneaky suspicion that was you behind the climate change conspiracy. Conspiracy confirmed. :o  
    ZeusAres42
  • NeopesdomNeopesdom 157 Pts   -  
    Should women be pastors? 

    While women and men are equal in status in Christ, functional differences exist in an assembly (church) setting.

    So far this thread only contains opinions on the subject, I have never read any Bible verses to back it up these opinions, a hopeless endeavour without it to be sure. But what can one expect in the land of "make it up as you go along of feel good religion." One must ask where the Biblical authority comes from to allow women to be pastors, simple answer is that it nowhere allows it, in fact it forbids it. The appeal to man’s priority in the “order of creation” indicates this command is a permanent principle that transcends any cultural practice.

    For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. (1 Cor. 14:33)

    The above verse indicates this is a universal principle.

    Even the beginning of the epistle shows that these principles given are for more than those cultural practices at Corinth, but for "all in every place who call on the Name of Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Cor. 1:2)

    "...the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Cor. 14:34-35)

    It continues....

    What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the LordBut if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 
    (1 Cor. 14:36-38)

    Intimations of worldly opinions in the assembly of God (the church) is to be shunned in favour of obedience to divine commandments.

    Woman should not, according to God's Word, be pastors of a church. They should remain silent with their heads covered as clearly indicated by Scripture.
      “Never argue with an id'iot They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain
  • And God says no, so who cares what you say.

    Women try to encroach on what they want to change, answers the same it's always been to women. Phuk off and feed yourself 
  • RickeyDRickeyD 953 Pts   -  
    YeshuaBought
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    If a woman wants to ruin her life with religion, that is her problem.
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    RickeyD said:
    That is Paul's opinion, not god's provided that either of them exist. You need to stop forcing your beliefs on other people.
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    And God says no, so who cares what you say.

    Women try to encroach on what they want to change, answers the same it's always been to women. Phuk off and feed yourself 
    There you go, forcing your beliefs on other people.
  • Yes. God created women to worship him along with the man. So. A woman has every right to lead others in worship. 
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 1712 Pts   -  
    RickeyD said:
    This was written in a time where women were not allowed to teach or exercise authority over a man. Now things have changed. With the Feminist Movement, this is now perfectly acceptable. It is discriminatory oppression not to allow a woman to exercise authority over a man. Note: I am not a feminist. I just believe that men and women are equal, and both genders should have equal rights and freedom.
  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  
    Just for information.
    Men and Women are not equal.
    What is not readily taught in schools is the vast differences other than gender that exists between the sexes.

    Let's touch on a few things.

    Physiological differences
    The size of men's brains are bigger on average (between 8% and 13% larger), this is not just because of the size of the person.
    The female skeleton is generally less massive, smoother, and more delicate than the male
    Females, in general, have lower total muscle mass than males
    Males typically have larger tracheae and branching bronchi, with about 56% greater lung volume per body mass. They also have larger hearts, 10% higher red blood cell count, and higher hemoglobin hence greater oxygen-carrying capacity. They also have higher circulating clotting factors (vitamin K, prothrombin and platelets). These differences lead to faster Men quicker in the healing of wounds and higher peripheral pain tolerance.
    Females live longer than males in most countries around the world.
    On average, men are taller and weigh more than women.
    Women have a larger hip section than men.

    Neurochemical differences
    Women's progesterone is more significant than in males.
    Women's bodies handle estrogen differently than males.
    This affects cognitive function, specifically by enhancing learning and memory in a dose-sensitive manner
    The amounts mood swings, behavioral disturbances, and hot flashes in postmenopausal women

    Cognitive differences
    Males excel relative to females at certain spatial tasks
    Males have an advantage in tests that require the mental rotation or manipulation of an object
    Maze and path completion tasks, males learn the goal route quicker.
    Higher accuracy in tests of targeted motor skills, such as guiding projectiles
    Males are faster on reaction time and finger tapping tests

    Females have an advantage in processing speed involving letters, digits and rapid naming tasks.
    Females have better object location memory, verbal memory, and verbal learning.
    Females are better at matching items and precision tasks

    Networks differences
    Women also tend to have higher activity in the prefrontal and limbic regions
    Men tend to have a distributed network spread out among the cerebellum, portions of the superior parietal lobe, the left insula, and bilateral thalamus

    Hormonal differences
    Hormones vary greatly between women and men.
    Hormones produced in Pancreas, Thyroid, Pituitary gland, and adrenal glands.

    So women and men cannot in every respect be equal.
    There will be things women can excel better than men and vice versa.


    Now back to the topic.
    The scriptures quoted about women are Paul's preference, not a law.

    The beautiful thing in the USA is you can start a religion doing anything you want.
    If you would like to have women teaching in your religion all good said and done.
    But for the religions that do not have women teaching, as long as the women are comfortable in the religion all good said and done.

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