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MGTOW's Are Misguided, Persuade Me Otherwise

Debate Information

MGTOW is short for Men Going Their Own Way, and a MGTOW is a man who adheres to the movement by avoiding relationships from either or both bad experiences or the perspective that relationships are disadvantageous to men. The reason that MGTOW's are misguided is because, while abusive potential partners do exist in the world, to extrapolate these things onto the entire female population is a fallacy of hasty generalization, for the existence of undesirable female companions does not mean that all females are unsuitable mates.
대왕광개토
Acta deos numquam mortalia fallunt.



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    Arguments


  • Just like radical feminism that unwarrentedly stigmatizes all men as toxic and socially privileged, MGTOW considers women as worthless partners who exist only to take away men's effort, success, money, etc. These two movements look at the world through limited and distorted point of view and jump to conclusion that women/men are worthless and should be avoided at all cost. Both MGTOW and radical feminism are unreasonable movements that make people believe that opposite sex partnership is worthless. In conclusion, MGTOW is misguided because it fails to use broad and undistorted perspective in regard to relationship between opposite sexes. I can't think of a reason for arguing that MGTOW is not misguided. It is like saying that generalization is totally fine.
    AmericanFurryBoy
  • ThomasiusThomasius 75 Pts   -  
    @대왕광개토 ;

    Well, radical feminism is different from the MGTOW movement because, while there are those in the contemporary feminist movement that have regressive views toward men, the MGTOW movement is uniquely about relationship ills in regard to women whereas modern feminism tackles whole hosts of other issues like workplace equality, social inequality, patriarchal dynamics in culture, female reproductive rights, so on and so forth. Now, I’m not going to go into the merits of these points in this debate as it would be off-topic, but do you at least recognize, whether or not you agree with said points, that ‘radical feminism’ does encompass far more than stigma against men and that this stigma isn’t reflective of the entire movement as a whole?

    대왕광개토
    Acta deos numquam mortalia fallunt.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5969 Pts   -   edited November 2019
    Gender segregation movements are very strange and mostly based on personal frustrations overgeneralised to the entire world. There are pretty solid reasons to be single, but "Women are evil" is not one of them.

    I prefer to be single not because of some bad experiences with the same or the opposite sex, but simply because this lifestyle suits me best. I prefer to be completely free and independent from others. I do not even really form very close friendships with people, because I like to be a sole master of my time and to not have my plans interfered with, unless I am the initiator. I have a lot of goals that involve interaction with large groups of people, and I find it to be a much more interesting and rewarding experience, than spending days, months, years of my life with the same person. I would rather meet with 200 new people in a single day and exchange a few words with each, than spend 10 hours in a group of 3-4 friends.

    I also have always been a nomadic person. I cannot sit in one place for long and I need to be on the move constantly. When I am forced to live in one location for years for career reasons, I make up for it by travelling cross-country every couple of months. And I find the time much more enjoyable when it is just me, my car and the map with interesting locations around the country, than when it is a lot of people and I end up too focused on conversations and not on the travel. 
    Now, do not mistake me for an anti-social person; I am not like that, and I like meeting with people who are dear to me every now and then. I just do not like it to be a part of my everyday life.
    Also, the more people I have formed close bonds with in the locale I live in, the harder it is to move on to a new location. Hence, I prefer to not form close attachments and to stay mobile. Mobile lifestyle is much harder to maintain when you have very close friends and a family, than when you are a lone warrior.

    People better decide for themselves what works for them, but they have to be honest about it. It is okay to not want to get into romantic relationships, but it is strange to do so in the assumption that the opposite sex is full of liars, gold diggers and so on. We all encounter bad individuals in our lives and sometimes make a mistake giving them too much of our time. In such cases, a smart thing is to take a deep breath and move on. Nobody dies as a result of a failed relationship (unless the relationship has failed in a truly spectacular way), and saying, "She was not what I expected, hence all women are bad" is just an easy way out, as a way to ignore the problem and put it on a bookshelf, never inspecting its root and never learning from the experience.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @Thomasius Yes, for sure I do recognize that radical feminism is much more hostile than MGTOW in many ways. My main point was that radical feminism and MGTOW both use the same method of unjustifiably stigmatizing their opposite sex as essentially worthless. That MGTOW and radical feminism are similar in many ways was not my argument.
  • ThomasiusThomasius 75 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar
    Indeed, you're entitled to pursue as you wish, socially and romantically speaking.
    Acta deos numquam mortalia fallunt.
  • ThomasiusThomasius 75 Pts   -  
    @대왕광개토
    Well, my point wasn't that radical feminism is more hostile than the MGTOW movement, just that it is more complex. Nonetheless, there indeed observable regressive social attitudes that can be found in both, just to varying degrees.
    대왕광개토
    Acta deos numquam mortalia fallunt.
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    Just like radical feminism that unwarrentedly stigmatizes all men as toxic and socially privileged, MGTOW considers women as worthless partners who exist only to take away men's effort, success, money, etc. These two movements look at the world through limited and distorted point of view and jump to conclusion that women/men are worthless and should be avoided at all cost. Both MGTOW and radical feminism are unreasonable movements that make people believe that opposite sex partnership is worthless. In conclusion, MGTOW is misguided because it fails to use broad and undistorted perspective in regard to relationship between opposite sexes. I can't think of a reason for arguing that MGTOW is not misguided. It is like saying that generalization is totally fine.
    That's not what radical feminism is about. Radical feminism is about total and complete equality between the sexes and basically destruction of the idea of sexes.

    Seeing as we have a dispute about the basic definition of the word, let's go to Wikipedia which if nothing else is good for explaining the basic definitions of different concepts:

    "Radical feminism is a perspective within feminism that calls for a radical reordering of society in which male supremacy is eliminated in all social and economic contexts.[1]

    Radical feminists view society as fundamentally a patriarchy in which men dominate and oppress women. Radical feminists seek to abolish the patriarchy in order to "liberate everyone from an unjust society by challenging existing social norms and institutions." This includes opposing the sexual objectification of women, raising public awareness about such issues as rape and violence against women, and challenging the concept of gender roles. Shulamith Firestone wrote in The Dialectic of Sex: The Case for Feminist Revolution (1970): "[T]he end goal of feminist revolution must be, unlike that of the first feminist movement, not just the elimination of male privilege but of the sex distinction itself: genital differences between human beings would no longer matter culturally."[2]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism

    Radical feminism doesn't think men are toxic, it thinks the concepts of masculinity and femininity are toxic and there should only be one set of societal expectations which would apply to all people regardless of gender.
    대왕광개토
  • smoothiesmoothie 434 Pts   -  
    do you know how many men kill themselves because of women lol
    why so serious?
  • WheelmanWheelman 18 Pts   -  
    MGTOW is also a response to legal systems where men are treated unfairly. During divorces successful men have nearly everything they care about at risk. This is strong motivation to avoid relationships completely.
  • WheelmanWheelman 18 Pts   -  
    MGTOW is also a response to legal systems where men are treated unfairly. During divorces successful men have nearly everything they care about at risk. This is strong motivation to avoid relationships completely.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5969 Pts   -   edited December 2019
    @Wheelman

    That is hardly a valid reason. There are many alternatives that do not involve the hardships of the typical divorce process:
    • Marriage-less relationship.
    • Marriage with a prenup.
    • Marriage with a partner who you have lived with for a long time and whom you trust completely.
    • Marriage with a partner from a culture where divorces are strongly frowned upon.
    Men who avoid relationships because of the alleged systemic bias against them are not the most logical ones. They are like those women who avoid sex out of fear of being impregnated, when there are so many ways to deal with the issue that do not involve abstinence.
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