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Do you agree with Bernie Sanders on this?
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  • DeeDee 1951 Pts
    Don’t fret you have millions of Americans like @MayCaesar who claim “healthcare while expensive is totally affordable even to those on minimum wage “ people like @MichaelElpers and @MayCaesar will totally accept any such social injustice regarding outrageous healthcare and university fees all in favour of this skewed vision that to critique such is some how anti American and unpatriotic 
  • @Dee

    Well, I went to college while working a minimum wage job, paid for everything myself, and I came out debt free.  You just have to live within your means, without a good scholarship or a high paying job you shouldn't go to a $40,000/semester college.  You should weigh the cost and benefit of your college education to the job prospects it gives and determine whether it's worth it.

    I haven't completely made up my mind on healthcare, I think total privatization might be a better route to go, but what we have now definitely isn't the most efficient.  With healthcare you can only get two of 3 things quality, universality, and cost.  One will always be left behind. Some of the problems I have with socialized medicine include: the slowing of innovation...not nearly as many medical advancements come from socialized medicine countries, the rationing of medicine by the government...I don't think the government should control what medical care you have access to and when you will get it be that can afford better medicine deserve the right to have it, extremely long wait times for things deemed not life-threatening.
  • No, I do not agree.
  • @John_C_87 So you want people to go without healthcare. How Christian of you.
  • @Dee You are too awesome. It is a shame healthcare is so expensive.
  • I agree with Sanders on that the current healthcare system is a mess. I disagree with his proposed solution to it, as the high prices are actually caused by overextended governmental involvement in the healthcare business, rather than the opposite, and increasing the involvement even further is only make it worse.

    I also disagree with him on the claims that the healthcare system in the Nordic countries he loves pointing at so much is superior. Sure, it may look superior, if you forget that people there pay 50-60% in taxes to maintain it. In the US, I pay less than 15% total income tax, including federal, state and local tax. Would I want to pay extra half of my paycheck to fund healthcare services which I myself never use? No thanks.

    Last time I have been at a doctor's office, aside from for dental needs, was around 11 years ago. I am a healthy guy, exercising every day, maintaining a very strict healthy died and so on and so on. I suppose people like me are not important to Sanders, are they?
  • DeeDee 1951 Pts

    If a sizable amount of Americans cannot afford healthcare how can they afford university fees on minimum wage?

    Your absolute denial of anything that doesn’t fit your cherry pie Walton’s mountain vision of the U S is hilarious ......

    MONDAY, Dec. 3 (HealthDay News) -- Almost 20 percent of Americans, or more than 40 million adults, can't afford or access needed health care, according to a new U.S. government report released Monday.

    Access to health care is the focus of this year's Health, United States, 2007 report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). It shows that one-fifth of Americans couldn't afford one or more of these services: medical care, prescription medicines, mental health care, dental care, or eyeglasses.

    "People tend to equate access to care with insurance," said report author Amy Bernstein, chief of the analytic studies branch at the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics. "But access to care is more than insurance." 

    "People assume that if you have health insurance of any kind that you're okay, but that's not the case," she added.

    Among the other barriers are locales without enough doctors, lack of transportation to doctors and clinics, and shortages of such organs as kidneys for transplants.

    That means that even when people "have health insurance there are still disparities," Bernstein said.

    In 2005, almost one in 10 people aged 18 to 64 years old reported not being able to afford prescription drugs and almost 10 percent said they postponed getting the medical care they needed.

    While it's not the only factor, a lack of health insurance remains a key to accessing care, Bernstein said.

    "We have a lot of evidence that people who don't have health insurance are much less likely to receive services than people who do," she said. "Health insurance is critical."

    Other findings in the annual report:

    • About 30 percent of young adults 18 to 24 do not have a usual source of medical care, and 30 percent have no health insurance.
    • Among adults 45-64, one in 10 lacks a usual source of health care. In this group, about one in every 20 has high blood pressure, a serious heart condition or diabetes but no usual source of medical care.
    • In 2005, one out of five people under 65 said they had been uninsured for at least some part of the past year. Most in this group said they had gone without insurance for more than 12 months.
    • About 10 percent of women aged 45 to 64 with incomes below the poverty line reported delaying medical care because of a lack of transportation.
    • About one-third of children living below the poverty level didn't see a dentist in 2005, compared with fewer than one fifth of children in higher-income families.
  • @Dee

    ****Among the other barriers are locales without enough doctors, lack of transportation to doctors and clinics, and shortages of such organs as kidneys for transplants.

    That means that even when people "have health insurance there are still disparities," Bernstein said.

    Usually this is exacerbated by socialized medicine.  Doctors are forced to accept patients for a certain wage, therefore they make less, therefore less doctors.  Shortages are generally seen more in socialized medicine countries.

    You said people can't pay for a university on a minimum wage... I did.  I chose cost over a prestigious school that cost way more.

  • DeeDee 1951 Pts

    Right your usual dance ignore stats and government studies but then again a fair proportion of Americans cannot afford either healthcare or college fees on minimum wage that is unless you're Michael Elpers as your buddy May stated " if one makes "wise choices" on low income it's possible ......

    Yeah sure ....
  • I completely agree with him that the US healthcare system is dysfunctional, but disagree with him that "they're going to win this"... I don't see it happening, too much dogmatism...
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • @Dee

    I didn't ignore the study just said that socialized medicine doesn't generally create more medical professionals it decreases them.

    Also if you go into a major that will actually earn you money you can go into a little college debt.  Not everyone needs to go to college and not every major is worthwhile.  it is your job to do the cost/benefit relationship for yourself.
  • piloteerpiloteer 752 Pts
    edited November 2019
    I agree with Bernie on healthcare. 
  • @John_C_87 So you want people to go without healthcare. How Christian of you.
    So you are saying hospitals should be like hotel rooms and credit cards no insurance  credit not care. How God like of you. 
  • DeeDee 1951 Pts

    You’re  still totally ignoring the fact that a sizable amount of Americans cannot afford a college education or healthcare which is disgraceful yet for some reason makes you proud and is a situation you tenaciously avoid even admitting such is your skewed sense of patriotism 
  • TKDBTKDB 605 Pts
    edited November 2019
    No, I don't support Bernie Sanders, because he's a Socialist, who is campaigning to his Socialist following constituents, while, ignoring the rest of the Public, who would become harmed "Policy wise, by his Socialist Ideology, if he were to become the POTUS.

    He doesn't speak for me, and I won't be brainwashed by his Socialist teachings.

    "Do you agree with Bernie Sanders on this?"

    For example did former POTUS Obama's political policies, benefit the Public as a whole, or just his Liberal follower constituents?

    The answer: His political policies, benefited his Presidency, and his Liberal following constituents.

    And the rest of the Public, who had to live through miseries, of the various wakes of his policy managements, via his time in the Oval Office. 

    Bernie Sanders, and his word's, would be a major waste of the Publics time.
  • Dee said:

    You’re  still totally ignoring the fact that a sizable amount of Americans cannot afford a college education or healthcare which is disgraceful yet for some reason makes you proud and is a situation you tenaciously avoid even admitting such is your skewed sense of patriotism 
    By afford do you mean legally, money, or time. The largest cost that higher education creates is in corruption to a National jury pool. As education debt is not a payment made by registered receipt, debt must be found to be legal debt, there is a time period that takes place which can negate the payment acquired by collage's as they supported crimes that are to be found and place in a court of law to be proven.

  • For all of you that think medicatr for all is the answer you really need to reseach what medicare actually covers.

    It does not pay for your medication or medical supplies.

    Most people who have medicare must carry a secondary insurance.  These secondary insurances are generally provided by private insurance companie which under Bernie's plan would not be allowed.  There is state Medicare but I know in my State you can't qualify if you own than one car in the household.  You can check your state requirement the, and I suspect that most state requirements are pretty restrictive also.

    Also it is fairly cost prohibitive.  Not only in the tax hikes it will untimely requiret an added  cost of the average American to get  Medicare. part D which covers certain medications depending on what plan you can afford.  I don't think this covers required medical supples.

    So Medicare is not the way to get good medical coverage for all.

    Most liow to no income people can qualify for state medical benefits that cover just about everything at least in the state I live in. They just need to do the paperwork.  I am willing to make a bet that the people who are not currently covered it is because they haven't bothered to apply. Your state maybe  different and maybe an extention of those programs would be a better choice.

    I am not against everyone having access to healthcare.  I am just against a plan that will ultimately leave people uninsured and will cost everyone a ton of money.

    So even if you don't care about the extra taves mybe you should consider what I have just told you about the realities of Medicare.  Better yet don't just belive me research it yourself and talk to people who have medicare as their only coverage.

    So unless they plan on completely changing Medicare "Medicare for all is not a good plan or even a prctical one.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3250 Pts
    edited November 2019
    It is interesting that people like to use the statistics on the numbers of uninsured people as an indication of a problem, as if everyone wants to have an insurance in the first place. One can easily get a basic health insurance these days for under $50 a month, no matter how poor. Yet many people do not get one. Why? 

    Over the course of my life, I had exactly $6 paid by my health insurance. I am a very healthy person and never need to see a doctor. Now, my employer automatically deducts approximately $2,400 off my income every year to fund a healthcare for me. I would rather have this money handed over to me directly, and do without an insurance. $200 a month would be a nice little extra, and, unlike the insurance, I could put it to good use.

    Save with car insurance. I have paid a total of ~$2,800 for my car insurance so far, and only had two minor incidents leading to $200 being covered by the insurer. Does not look like a good deal, does it? Yet the state prohibits the use of uninsured passenger cars, so I end up spending my money on something which I never use. I would like to monetise my good driving habits, but the state says "No".

    The insurance should be just that: insurance. It should be something you buy for emergencies, or do not buy, if you do not expect emergencies and are willing to risk having to cover them directly from your pocket. Needless to say, it should be completely optional, and no one should be forced to pay for others' insurances.

    Bernie says that 80 million Americans have no insurance? I would like to be one of them. Please pass a legislation making not having any insurances have no legal repercussions - now that is something I could get behind. But politicians never like to give people options, as it makes it harder to control them; they want to decide everything for them, including which insurances who gets for what amount of money. It is despicable that this type of behavior is not only forgiven, but encouraged, and even more so, those who criticise it are accused of not caring about their fellow human beings.
  • @MayCaesar. Yes i agree insurance in general as a concept stinks.  The reason you must have car insurance is to protect others not necessarily yourself.  This way if someone wrecks your car, they have some way to pay for it and cant just say, i dont have the money.
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