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What would free college do to Military enrollment?
in United States

With the talk of free a free college education coming about, I was wondering about a factor many don't often mention, military enrollment.  A large incentive currently used in getting people to join the military is that they will pay for your education.  I have met a large number of people that have taken this route.  Do you think that this is a valid fear?
  1. Live Poll

    Do you think free college would drastically hinder the # of military volunteers?

    6 votes
    1. Yes
      50.00%
    2. No
      50.00%



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  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 2030 Pts
    edited November 5
    I do not think the system where people go to the military not because they like it, but because they need money for the college, is reasonable to begin with. People should go to the military because they are attracted by something there, not as a stepping stone to their actual career goals having nothing to do with the military field.

    If the military funds was used not to fund colleges and train people who are going to leave soon anyway, but to invest in the modern equipment and training of those who are planning to stay in the army, then we would have a smaller, but more efficient army. Nowadays full-scale wars are nearly non-existent, hence the number of people in the military is not nearly as important as the training level and equipment of those people. A 2 million army full of potential deserters and beginners is going to perform more poorly, than a 300 thousand army full of hardcore professionals.

    The solution to this though is not to make college "free" (i.e. paid in a distributed way by all taxpayers), but to remove the current favoritism system. The military already pays those who serve there; that should be enough. No extra benefits, such as early retirement or college/healthcare funding, should exist. 
    People who cannot pay for college themselves have a lot of options as it is. There are loans which you only repay as a fraction of your paychecks, hence you will never go bankrupt paying them. There are also various fellowships; if you are serious about going to college, then study like there is no tomorrow and obtain a fellowship paying for everything. Finally, there are many educational opportunities outside colleges, especially corporate trainings, which almost guarantee a quality job at the end.
    Finally, if you do have to pay, then study inside the state of your residence. With all the university programs, your price will be slashed significantly, and you can easily afford paying for everything by working a part-time evening job.
    ZeusAres42
  • Nothing, because. People join a Congressional Armed Services for higher education money not a Military. Much of a global understanding of Constitution makes the question to complex to be considered as constitutionally representable. A military preservation of United State Constitution is not the same as just saying a military in basic, military is a type of regulation made on a order of lethal force and law. There is a misunderstanding created between a commissioned soldiers and non-commissioned soldier to hide or negate the idea of inconstancies that might appear or be created by career soldiers.. In a American military, this dates back to the concept of independence both religious and Civil Criminal Common Law inside a martial law setting. In United State the uncommission solders will/can never sacrifice any united states constitutional preservation due to preservation of pension and/or retirement as self-interest.


    It should also be clearly understood when mixing training in such a way publicly Armed Service is no longer in a military base structure. People are then placed directly in harms way. 
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 83 Pts
    edited November 5
    @MayCaesar

    Sure, but I think some people join the military for both.  They want to fight for freedoms, and are incentivised by free education.  I'd rather use taxes to pay for a military education than giving it out freely, to me they've earned it.  Also the discipline learned in the military makes it more likely that the person be a successful member of society.
    ZeusAres42
  • TKDBTKDB 290 Pts
    edited November 5
    @MichaelElpers

    What I'm confused about is why some college students, are apparently lack the ability to fend for themselves, while going to ANY college in the United States?

    The U.S. military trains all of its military members to be as self sufficient as possible, whether in a real world conflict, or while participating in a training exercise, while working together as a team.

    That's a huge difference in "Disciplines," when some of the current generation of past students, or current students, are living at home with their parents, because they still don't know how to be self sufficient?

    IE, working however many jobs it may take, to put food in ones own mouth, gas in their vehicles, or the shoes, on their feet to walk to school in, or a roof over ones own head?

    Or waiting to go to college if a student, can't a scholarship, or some grants to help finance their college experience? 

    So my thought is this, who is going to pay for this free college education, via, letting the Military pay for a students education?

    I've heard some of the Liberal talking heads preaching to their individual constituent fan-bases via their ongoing campaigns, that are being used to baby, coddle, and cater, to their individual constituents, to sell this or that FREE program rhetoric?

    And apparently, some of the modern day U.S. Army Drill Sergeants, aren't acting as Drill Sergeant anymore, they aren't teaching the levels of discipline, that their previous Drill Sergeants counterparts, once did?

    And are, apparently carrying on more like "High School Counselors?"

    If this is the case, then some of the modern day students, or soldiers, aren't being taught thoroughly enough, so that they can face their real world conflicts, or in how to deal with college, without having to depend on some of their parents, or family to pay, for this or that financial difficulty? 

    "What would free college do to Military enrollment?"


    It depends on what kind of attention to detail attitude, their attitude in general, and what level of discipline that the "Free College Seeking Student's are going to bring to the Nationwide Educational table?

    There's a saying that goes, any group of soldiers, is as only as strong as it's weakest soldiering, soldier is.

    The reason behind this saying, is because you don't  leave any soldier behind. 

    And soldiers will work together, to help the weakest soldier to keep up with them, so that they can all go to their homes, after their mission is done.

    So if a student, maybe gets free college through the Military, is that same student, going to treat that free college education with the proper discipline and respect, or treat it with a poor and undisciplined attitude?



    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987
  • DeeDee 814 Pts
    edited November 6
    A large incentive currently used in getting people to join the military is that they will pay for your education.  I have met a large number of people that have taken this route.  Do you think that this is a valid fear?

    The only option a lot of these individuals have of getting a college degree is to join the military for access to such, a sizable proportion of Americans face ridiculous debt laden futures resulting from borrowing for educational fees. 

    As usual those in need of help regarding college fees are shot down immediately by fellow Americans who see granting such as totally unfair , do you guys never admit that college fees are unaffordable to many fellow Americans and attempt to address this?

    I guess not just like you’s claim health care is totally affordable anything really to avoid the uncomfortable truth 

    Instead the military traditionally blow billions of dollars yearly in times of peace all to the detriment and suffering of those on the lower scales ( financially ) of American society 


  • DeeDee 814 Pts
    @TKDB


    So if a student, maybe gets free college through the Military, is that same student, going to treat that free college education with the proper discipline and respect, or treat it with a poor and undisciplined attitude?


    You have a very poor opinion of fellow Americans who’s only wish is to have a decent education something I and others take for granted in my country , if one cannot afford such in my country it’s paid for by government as it’s seen as a right .


    You claim  to be a “Christian” but begrudge those who need a hand up and sadly you’re the typical hypocritical American Christian who wails to others about helping the needy , sick and those in need of help of course you only do this on a Sunday where fellow “Christians “ can compliment you on being a true American Christian

  • TKDBTKDB 290 Pts
    @Dee

    Are you a millinial? 
  • DeeDee 814 Pts
    @TKDB

    Are you still beating your kids?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • TKDBTKDB 290 Pts
    edited November 6
    @Dee

    Yeah, you're a millinial, because some of the Millinials, rely on attacking others with their own words, when they are unable to consciously come up with a counter argument, to support their own words of  rhetoric? 

    "You have a very poor opinion of fellow Americans who’s only wish is to have a decent education something I and others take for granted in my country , if one cannot afford such in my country it’s paid for by government as it’s seen as a right .


    You claim  to be a “Christian” but begrudge those who need a hand up and sadly you’re the typical hypocritical American Christian who wails to others about helping the needy , sick and those in need of help of course you only do this on a Sunday where fellow “Christians “ can compliment you on being a true American Christian."


    @Dee,

    You have quite an opinion, on how you view some Americans I see?

    "The only option a lot of these individuals have of getting a college degree is to join the military for access to such, a sizable proportion of Americans face ridiculous debt laden futures resulting from borrowing for educational fees. 

    As usual those in need of help regarding college fees are shot down immediately by fellow Americans who see granting such as totally unfair , do you guys never admit that college fees are unaffordable to many fellow Americans and attempt to address this?

    I guess not just like you’s claim health care is totally affordable anything really to avoid the uncomfortable truth 

    Instead the military traditionally blow billions of dollars yearly in times of peace all to the detriment and suffering of those on the lower scales ( financially ) of American society."


    @Dee,

    And I stand by words: When some feel entitled to something because they lack the respectful discipline to maintain, a sense of responsibility for themselves?

    And are waiting for this or that handout, so that their undisciplined needs are met?


    What I'm confused about is why some college students, are apparently lack the ability to fend for themselves, while going to ANY college in the United States?

    The U.S. military trains all of its military members to be as self sufficient as possible, whether in a real world conflict, or while participating in a training exercise, while working together as a team.

    That's a huge difference in "Disciplines," when some of the current generation of past students, or current students, are living at home with their parents, because they still don't know how to be self sufficient?

    IE, working however many jobs it may take, to put food in ones own mouth, gas in their vehicles, or the shoes, on their feet to walk to school in, or a roof over ones own head?

    Or waiting to go to college if a student, can't a scholarship, or some grants to help finance their college experience? 

    So my thought is this, who is going to pay for this free college education, via, letting the Military pay for a students education?

    I've heard some of the Liberal talking heads preaching to their individual constituent fan-bases via their ongoing campaigns, that are being used to baby, coddle, and cater, to their individual constituents, to sell this or that FREE program rhetoric?

    And apparently, some of the modern day U.S. Army Drill Sergeants, aren't acting as Drill Sergeant anymore, they aren't teaching the levels of discipline, that their previous Drill Sergeants counterparts, once did?

    And are, apparently carrying on more like "High School Counselors?"

    If this is the case, then some of the modern day students, or soldiers, aren't being taught thoroughly enough, so that they can face their real world conflicts, or in how to deal with college, without having to depend on some of their parents, or family to pay, for this or that financial difficulty? 

    "What would free college do to Military enrollment?"


    It depends on what kind of attention to detail attitude, their attitude in general, and what level of discipline that the "Free College Seeking Student's are going to bring to the Nationwide Educational table?

    There's a saying that goes, any group of soldiers, is as only as strong as it's weakest soldiering, soldier is.

    The reason behind this saying, is because you don't  leave any soldier behind. 

    And soldiers will work together, to help the weakest soldier to keep up with them, so that they can all go to their homes, after their mission is done.

    So if a student, maybe gets free college through the Military, is that same student, going to treat that free college education with the proper discipline and respect, or treat it with a poor and undisciplined attitude? 



  • DeeDee 814 Pts
    edited November 6
    @TKDB



    *****So if a student, maybe gets free college through the Military, is that same student, going to treat that free college education with the proper discipline and respect, or treat it with a poor and undisciplined attitude? 


    Yes, why not just deny those who cannot afford it an education it’s the American way after all , you guys segregated blacks till the late 1960’s and denied them education,  now so called American Christians ( the majority) do the same on all low income Americans ....Jesus would detest such hypocrisy no doubt you know a verse or two where Jesus said deny the poor and afflicted ......A Christian nation indeed how f..king hilarious 


    Why not re-educate fellow Americans on what Jesus actually said regarding helping others? You cannot do that because you’re a typical American Christian as in a hypocrite who totally ignores what Jesus actually said , I guess the ideal version of an America christian would be the racist rapist Trump .........


    Hebrews 13:16 ESV / 8,232 helpful votes

    Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

    Philippians 2:4 ESV / 7,819 helpful votes

    Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

    Luke 6:38 ESV / 7,124 helpful votes

    Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

    1 John 3:17 ESV / 6,765 helpful votes

    But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?

    Galatians 6:2 ESV / 6,440 helpful votes

    Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

    Acts 20:35 ESV / 5,882 helpful votes

    In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

    Proverbs 19:17 ESV / 5,869 helpful votes

    Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.


  • People can afford an education, learning themselves or in small groups, they cannot afford how education is measured while documented by debt. Healthcare and income inequality are a result of the axiom imbalance of the Federal Reserve Note, and a basic principle that debt is a form of counterfeiting which raises questions on payments for promise for all debt foreign and domestic. The cost of giving receipt on debt publicly has increased as the national debt has grown in volume, and numbers of people who require receipt, while debt itself may be proven illegal and documented as uncollectable. 

    The House of Representatives has created a American Armed Service out of a United State Military meaning the Constitutional standard has be relieved from their guard . In basic principle the two institutions are not the same yet are treated as if identical by results created by civil litigation on discrimination. Yes, there is/was discrimination which explains why the accusation and its Constitutional representation had never been stopped by United State Constitution preservation. Discrimination, on the other hand was not the reasons behind things such as woman disqualified from military service, or from Presidential service to the Executive office. Lack of documented Service to Preservation of United States Constitution was the reason.

    A Military is not a dictator ship though can be run by one. A Military can comprises of commissioned and/or non-commissioned personnel. By definition Free means something without assigned cost or placed self-value. Collage meets neither of two requirements to be free, it is commissioned or non-commissioned enterprise, the Civil decades old litigation's that are to be brought before the House to be closed, are over have woman in the past Century been burdened with preservation of the United States Constitution, or themselves. Have woman preserved United State Constitution and created all woman as equal, Presadera, or have they attacked the balance created holding all males as equal before all men. President.
  • What would free college do to Military enrollment?

    Influence the number of commissioned officers in that branch of the Armed Serves providing that incentive.

    Do you think that this is a valid fear?

    It is not a fear it is a gamble.

  • @MichaelElpers

    Perhaps, but I still do not like the idea of the government paying for people's education, just because they have worked for it for a while. Besides, a similar, but more forced, system is in place in Israel and South Korea, and as a result people there tend to start higher education pretty late, compared to their competitors from other developed countries, and end up entering the market at the age at which their competitors already have built a strong resume. While the college is free, the military experience really does not translate well to the civil employment, and military skills are hard to sell to private companies.

    From my perspective, it is more reasonable to take a student loan at the age of, say, 18, graduate at 22, pay off the loan by 25 and be extremely well off from there - than it is to serve in the military until the age of 23-24, then start a 4 year long college program, and only enter the job market at the age of 27-28, when those who went down the student loan route are already making a fortune a year.
  • @MayCaesar

    You may be right, but it would depend on the college you choose and the major you select. 

    I think the discipline and work ethic may translate.  
  • @MayCaesar

    Sure, but I think some people join the military for both.  They want to fight for freedoms, and are incentivised by free education.  I'd rather use taxes to pay for a military education than giving it out freely, to me they've earned it.  Also the discipline learned in the military makes it more likely that the person be a successful member of society.
    "Free education"?!?  Where did that come from??
  • I do not expect answers on this challenge. People do not join a Military anymore most Nations hold only Armed Services. It is not a Constitutional test so having the right understanding is not necessary to its service. Plus, the United States Armed Service does not protect and serve the United states American Constitution any longer. I do agree it is often used as a job training institution and democratic promotional tool.

    People who serve Armed Service are not fighting for freedom, they Bear Arm to protect the liberty of others. Education is fee, learning is not, it sometimes cost us our life. Higher Education simple gives is better odds of not hurting ourselves learning.

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