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you look like?
in Science

By maxxmaxx 184 Pts
personality is based on what you look like; prove me wrong.  Reasoning: our personality develops in early childhood not based upon how we think we are but by how others perceive us and in general people perceive who you are based upon your appearance. This begins with your friends, strangers, and childhood peers.



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  • DeeDee 1332 Pts
    @maxx

    ****personality is based on what you look like; prove me wrong.  


    Nonsense , I know a man who looks like a vicious street fighter yet he works for a charity supporting the homeless 


    *****Reasoning 


    You mean your Deepak Chopra style “reasoning “ 


    ****our personality develops in early childhood not based upon how we think we are but by how others perceive us 


    Gibberish , where do you get this stuff from .....Wait .....Deepak isn’t it? 


    ****and in general people perceive who you are based upon your appearance. This begins with your friends, strangers, and childhood peers.


    They may think you are someone other than what you are depending on their subjective viewpoint but that changes instantly on contact in most cases.

  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    edited January 12
    oh wow you are right  its no wonder why you dont have a profile picture; people would judge you by your looks and believe you are nothing more than a religious troll. As well, being a vicious murderer is not someone’s personality, it is just something that they do@Dee
  • @maxx Assume: What you look like determines personality.
    and the majority of us are average, in accordance with a normal bell-curve distribution. ( on a 1-10 scale, most people would be a 5, and there would be more 5's than 4's and 6's, and more 4's and 6's than 3's and 7's etc.)

    This would imply that most of us would have nearly identical personalities, because we are mostly average.

    There is extreme diversity in personality, therefore one of the assumptions is wrong.
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • DeeDee 1332 Pts
    edited January 12
    @maxx

    ***** oh wow you are right  its no wonder why you dont have a profile picture; people would judge you by your looks and believe you are nothing more than a religious troll. 

    But you have a profile pic and you look like a guy who attempts ( unsuccessfully ) to sell pencils from a paper cup at train stations

    I don’t have one yet you label me despite saying ...... personality is based on what you look like; prove me wrong......

    You’ve just defeated yet another of your own ludicrous topics 

    ****As well, being a vicious murderer is not someone’s personality, it is just something that they do

    Right so a vicious murderer does not have a personality?   You said ........it’s not based upon how we think we are but by how others perceive us and in general people perceive who you are based upon your appearance.

    so a vicious murderer does not feel that way but is reliant on complete strangers making him feel that way? 

    You really are offensively stupid mate 
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    um  average compared to what; everyone else? that is similar to stating that all houses are average; it is false logic.  there are large houses, small ones, some that other houses think are ugly; houses that look majestic, houses that appear wide open. others that look in badly need of repairs and so on and so on. yes all humans are different in appearance just like houses and everything else and children learn to profile others at an early age and how I r you may think that they perceive us has a definite way we develop our personality. out personalities are a reflection on how others see us.@maxx @Happy_Killbot
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    edited January 12
    that is not personality and you have a mental problem and a bigot and a troll and refuse to believe it.  all you are on this site is to insult others. you troll religious posts and here you are trolling me. look up the definition of troll dee and you will see that it applies to how you act upon this site.@Dee
  • @maxx You can't have an average without considering everything else.

    What I mean is this: If you took a bunch of pictures of a bunch of people, and then to that same group of people asked everyone to rate everyone else on a 1-10 scale, 1 low, 10 high, The numbers would be expected to follow a bell curve distribution rather than a linear distribution, meaning most people got rated 5 and the least people got rated 1 or 10.

    The same as if you made a compilation of all houses, the majority would be town houses and apartments, and the number of them would far outweigh the number of mansions and 1-room log cabins.

    Not to mention there are other factors that have nothing to do with what you look like that can effect the way people treat you, like intelligence for example. Smart people and dumb people don't get the same treatment, especially from youngsters. If someone is good looking, but they are dumb they might get treated poorly and this interference would skew the results heavily.

    Also, can you prove that you don't have it backwards? Maybe your personality defines what you look like. Wouldn't it make more sense this way, since a person of a certain persuasion should be more likely to take a certain path in life, and in taking that path ends up looking a certain way to match?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • DeeDee 1332 Pts
    edited January 12
    @maxx

    **** that is a personality  and I have a mental problem and I am a bigot, a racist  and a troll but I  refuse to believe it.  

    I agree 

    ***all I am on this site is an insult to. others. I troll Atheist  posts and here I am trolling you

    Yes , which is why I call you mad Maxx 

    ****if I look up the definition of troll  you will see that it applies to how I act on this site 

    I agree .....again 
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    edited January 12
    I dont think any one will state that your personality will shape the way you look.  you look the way you are upon genetics. yet the way you look will decide your personality. personality develops early in life and how others perceive you will affect you and add to your idea of yourself. true? I am asking you to think about it. you are 5 years old and how others look at you and decide how you are based upon their assumptions will have a strong effect upon how your personality develops.
     @Happy_Killbot
  • @maxx How do you know personality isn't genetic?

    Also, if you look at people from past generations, they all have different looks, styles, and personalities.

    Isn't this strong evidence that it is the other way around?

    Or does it mean the two things are mutually exclusive?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    edited January 12
    traits are genetic and these traits will add to a personality that you develop. traits such as being stubborn, or being aggressive and so on. we are born with certain traits from genetics but we are not born with a personality. our personalities are developed by interactions with others and how they think of us and perceive us , and this develops our personality. @Happy_Killbot
  • @maxx ; Personality is not based on the opinions of others...self-perception and can be swayed by the words and actions of others but one's personality is an personal trait that is much more dependent upon genetics rather than internalized by interaction with the World.


    MAJOR PERSONALITY STUDY FINDS THAT TRAITS ARE MOSTLY INHERITED  http://https//www.nytimes.com/1986/12/02/science/major-personality-study-finds-that-traits-are-mostly-inherited.html
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    traits are genetic and traits are not personality;  they only help build a personality.  personality may be shaped some by environment, but at early childhood your personality is developed by how interact with you  and how they believe you are and other children will believe you are a certain way based on how you look. I can easily paste an opposing link but then we would have links debating.   where is the flaw in my argument?@RickeyD
  • @maxx I think we have all done a fair deal to show the flaws in your logic.

    The belief that your outward appearance is liked to their personality is a pseudoscience called Physiognomy. We know it isn't accurate because there is no scientific evidence to suggest it is, and the scientific articles that say there is some substance to it have all been criticized to the point of outright rejection by the scientific community.

    The few papers that do say anything about it are typically focused on humans ability to recognize emotions from facial features, and hypothesizes that people recognize emotions in others, such as deep seated childhood trauma, and extrapolate this to make the assumption that facial features indicate personality, when the two are in fact, not linked.
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    edited January 13
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126957-300-how-your-looks-betray-your-personality/     what makes you think it is a pusedo science?  aside from that, do you actually fail to believe that children will treat other children based upon their looks? just for the sake of argument, say a little child "looks dumb" overside head, big ears, silly grin; other children will make fun of him because they think since he looks dumb, then he must be dumb. and the child at such an impressionable age will eventually begin to believe it just through repetition.  science has stated that ones personality is set by aqe 12 or so .  when you are 5, 6 or 7, will think you are a certain way based upon how you look and this will build up into the childs personality.  @Happy_Killbot
  • maxx said:
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126957-300-how-your-looks-betray-your-personality/     what makes you think it is a pusedo science?  aside from that, do you actually fail to believe that children will treat other children based upon their looks? just for the sake of argument, say a little child "looks dumb" overside head, big ears, silly grin; other children will make fun of him because they think since he looks dumb, then he must be dumb. and the child at such an impressionable age will eventually begin to believe it just through repetition.  science has stated that ones personality is set by aqe 12 or so .  when you are 5, 6 or 7, will think you are a certain way based upon how you look and this will build up into the childs personality.
    Sure, there are some shallow twats out there, but most people I know judge people based on their character, and even more just have average looks as I have stated above, so this would only apply to the extremely ugly or beautiful.

    If you look at the studies they site, you will notice that they all have to do with underlying factors, for example higher levels of testosterone shape the face and also personality.

    They also reference the same studies I mentioned, which demonstrate that the way we judge faces has more to do with perceiving underlying emotions, rather than there being a direct link between what you look like and personality.

    If someone is untrustworthy or is hiding something, we can recognize that subconsciously. In this sense, our face does reveal information about our intentions but it does not mean that what we look like determines our personality. From the pop-science site you linked:

    "While these experiments suggest that our snap judgements of faces really do contain a kernel of truth about the personality of their owner, Little stresses that the link is far from clear-cut. He and Perrett only found a correlation at the extremes of personality, and other studies looking for links with different aspects of personality have failed to find any association at all. The owner of an “honest” face, for example, is no more likely to be trustworthy than anyone else."

    I think we can say conclusively that while there is a little bit of truth, it doesn't work quite in the way you think it does, and other factors are much more prevalent a cause for personality than what you look like.
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    first I a not talking about grown ups. your personality is set by then and no matter how you try to fit it in, there is no such thing as a personality change  I am talking about children and the time area of when they develop personality.  let me try another angle sir. I have a cousin who as a child was frail and small and other children; based upon his appearance treated him with derision and would bully him based upon what he looked like alone. the only friends he was capable of getting in early grade school were children who were of the same type. Today as an adult. he constantly feels insecure and insignificant based upon how others saw him as a child. that is one example and I am sure if there is one example there are thousands more. There are young children who are healthy, strong, and good looking and other children will treat them as to how they look and this will help shape their personality. correct?@maxx @Happy_Killbot
  • @maxx I disagree, you can change your personality. I am not the same person I was 5 years ago, nor is that person the same as what I was 10 years ago, and in 5 years I will be yet another person. You might argue this is because as part of my personality I value personal growth and development, but the very admission that such a thing exists would be poison to your claims.

    I have a friend who as a child was also small, weak, and rather insecure. As an adult he is fit and rather confident, because he worked hard and put in the effort to become that person which he desired to be. The only difference between my friend and your friend is learned helplessness, perhaps the saddest of all psychological conditioning. The critical reality is that all the tools necessary to change where always present, and one reaps what they sow.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    well, most psychology that I have studied has pointed out that personality does not change once you have it set. perhaps you ay think the personality has changed because of different values and morals you have developed; however morals and values are something that you learn and only adds to your personality. as well there will always be those who do not fit a psychological pattern such as your friend yet I fail how you can not see where a child personality is shaped by how and what others think of them and in general, most children will think another child is a certain way based upon how they look. I think (aside from dee) we need a third person in on this. :) @Happy_Killbot
  • At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    again links will always argue among themselves.  lets just go by logic children are affected by how they look and how others perceive them.  correct?
  • @maxx I only provide links to trusted sources such as official papers, dictionaries, public groups, and news where the story is the relevant topic. In this case the link is to scientific evidence suggesting that people's personality does in fact change over time.

    Posting links to opinion pieces is when it is a fallacy to do so, because it is an appeal to authority.

    As far as children getting treated different based on looks, I say mostly no. It's only in extreme cases where someone will be treated differently, but because the overwhelming majority of us have perfectly average looks, it doesn't make a noticeable statistically relevant effect.


    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
  • @maxx Page not found error
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    edited January 13
    yes I got that on your 2nd link, the one by  soto however says it is an opinion so I fail to se where that is a trusted scientific site as you said that the links are, perhaps we agree to disagree. I think that our core personality always remain the same; yet we simply add to it over the years by adding to it or subtracting certain things.  @Happy_Killbot
  • @maxx The opinion is that personality changes for the better. The evidence is that it does in fact change.

    I think I found the page you were trying to link to, which is titled:

    "Can you change your personality?"

    assuming this is correct, then the third paragraph reads: 

    "personality changes can still occur depending on new life experiences. People who have experienced severe emotional trauma or life-changing events can experience significant personality changes as well. Even the kind of social roles we take on can change personality. First-time parents or people heavily invested in new jobs can find themselves becoming more conscientious as their new responsibilities force them to change how they think, feel, and behave in general. People in new romantic relationships can find themselves becoming more conscientious about their partners' well-being as their perspective on the world changes. As our lives change, so do our personalities. "

    Indicating yet again, that personality changes and therefore can not be linked to what you look like as a child.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 184 Pts
    actually that was not the site. the one I posted was written by a canadian psychologist. again new life experiances only add to your personality. new values and morals are what we learn and simply enriches the personality one already has. perhaps I can find a trusted scientific journal on the subjext @Happy_Killbot
  • @maxx I think we are at an impasse then, I feel that I have provided adequate proof to disprove your thesis, although not enough to disprove the central idea.

    Just to recap:
    • Most people have average looks, but there is a wide range of personalities, indicating a low likelihood of any connection.
    • we have not ruled out the possibilities that personalities cause looks, or that the two are mutually exclusive.
    • Humans have an innate and advanced ability to detect emotions in others through facial expressions, this suggests that the observation of a link between personality and looks is extrapolation of emotional observation.
    • Personality changes over time as people mature. This disproves any link to personality from birth.
    • While it is true that some people will get different unfair treatment due to their outward appearance, this is only true for the fringe minority who are exceptionally ugly or attractive.
    • other factors such as temperament, social status, intelligence, and culture probably play a much bigger role in development of personality.
    That's all I've got. If this hasn't changed your mind, nothing will.
    ZeusAres42PlaffelvohfenDee
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • There is certainly this feedback at play - but bear in mind that this feedback strongly depends on the social circle you are in. As a good example, in the society I am originally from - post-Soviet one - smiling often and being soft-spoken as a man is seen as pathetically feminine, and such people are ostracized and very likely to develop inferiority complex. On the other hand, smiling often and being soft-spoken as a man in Japan is actually often commented on as extremely attractive, and people cling to individuals who do that. There is also the fact that looks are subjective. Again, from my personal experience, a girl I had a crush on in my first undergraduate year most other guys actually saw as extremely unattractive - obviously she would get a very different feedback in interactions with me, than with most other guys, which, in turn, would shape her differently.

    The impression of appearance can also be negated with general behavior. There have been experiments clearly showing that extremely confident, but conventionally ugly people can be seen as very attractive by many. I knew an armless guy with dirty hair and long messy beard with a large belly, which is about the worst combination possible in terms of conventional attractiveness - and the guy has been married 4 times to very beautiful women.

    I personally look a bit like a brute, not due to my facial expression (which is pretty soft), but due to my general muscular complexion and somewhat wide face - however, nobody gets the impression of a brute from me, because the way I move and speak is very different from what you would expect from a typical person looking like this.

    Still, the effect you are talking about certainly is real. And there is a converse effect as well: your appearance changes based on the feedback you are receiving. People who have been severely bullied at school, and as a result end up having severe confidence issues for the rest of their lives, will often have a very alert look, with more widely open eyes than usual, tense facial muscles and limbs, and as a result, a lot of small deformities that make them look older than they are (most of the time; sometimes it can actually have the opposite effect). People who have been treated by others well, on the other hand, tend to live much more relaxed lives, and they look younger than their age would suggest, often more childlike and innocent, with very few wrinkles.
    maxx
  • @maxx I think we have all done a fair deal to show the flaws in your logic.

    The belief that your outward appearance is liked to their personality is a pseudoscience called Physiognomy. We know it isn't accurate because there is no scientific evidence to suggest it is, and the scientific articles that say there is some substance to it have all been criticized to the point of outright rejection by the scientific community.

    The few papers that do say anything about it are typically focused on humans ability to recognize emotions from facial features, and hypothesizes that people recognize emotions in others, such as deep seated childhood trauma, and extrapolate this to make the assumption that facial features indicate personality, when the two are in fact, not linked.

    That is an interesting point about physiognomy. I have currently been reading a book on more than 50 great myths of pop psychology and this is probably something I might actually come across in later chapters (although maybe not too). However, in the meantime I recently looked up more on this and found the following interesting bit about it's new age variation:

    Junk Science of the Minute

    Personalysis. This is another fad in the mold of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. I once heard from a fellow who worked on an oil rig in the North Sea. He claimed that his bosses made all the workers take the MBTI and assigned them colored badges: 16 colors for the 16 types. Personalysis goes a step further (or back) and instead of providing an Omar-the-astrologer type reading in paragraph style, the client is presented with a "colorgraph" that allegedly represents the results of a personality questionnaire. The data is depicted as colors, shapes, and numbers. Allegedly this enables people to "understand differences, grow, and manage others. Colorgraph images throughout the workforce serve as visual clues to help people stay on target."* Personalysis is debunked by Ben Radford in the May/June 2009 issue of Skeptical Inquirer. Don't confuse personalysis with personology. The latter is a New Age variation of the ancient pseudoscience of physiognomy and was invented by a judge in the 1930s. Personalysis was created by a behavioral scientist at the University of Houston in the 1970s. Both personalysis and personology rely on subjective validation for whatever credibility they have achieved.http://skepdic.com/news/newsletter103.html
    The following reference points also make for good reading in relation to this topic:


    Happy_Killbot









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