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Should African Americans have reperations?

Debate Information

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G2urOQGqD0
I say no. i am so tired of the racist left saying people have the right to be paid for their skin color, when they don't, and I am so tired, of being pressured to apologize for being white. As a racial unity supporter, I am doing nothing wrong, and am entitled to not apologize, for something that I have no control over. I am not a conservative, but I side with conservatives, on this.



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  • piloteerpiloteer 1577 Pts   -  
    You spelled reparations wrong.
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    piloteer said:
    You spelled reparations wrong.
    That's not a valid argument, do you have anything to contribute?
  • smoothiesmoothie 434 Pts   -  
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    why so serious?
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -   edited January 2020
    Can you link to a single time in your 1158 posts on this website where someone has responded by asking you to apologise for being white? Because if not, aren't you using the pain caused by racism to merely cement your own privilege and avoid having to respond to actual instances of racism which are disproportionately aimed at people of colour to a massive extent? Although to be honest even if you could provide examples, that just leads into an argument of "Of all the examples of racism in the world, why do you think internet name calling on a debate forum takes priority".

    I mean you've got another thread going right now about the perceived anti-white agenda of the left-wing, again with absolutely no evidence of anything of the kind.

    Why are you so concerned about hypothetical racism versus white people rather than the real racism that is prevalent throughout the world?

    Edit; Also in regards to reparations, ideally we can form a free and equal society along communist principles where everyone has their needs met but that's hopelessly far off. Until then, if it's a choice between the status quo or the status quo with some readjustment to lessen the structural inequalities that effect black people then I'll go with making things more equal by implementing reparations.
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    Can you link to a single time in your 1158 posts on this website where someone has responded by asking you to apologise for being white? Because if not, aren't you using the pain caused by racism to merely cement your own privilege and avoid having to respond to actual instances of racism which are disproportionately aimed at people of colour to a massive extent? Although to be honest even if you could provide examples, that just leads into an argument of "Of all the examples of racism in the world, why do you think internet name calling on a debate forum takes priority".

    I mean you've got another thread going right now about the perceived anti-white agenda of the left-wing, again with absolutely no evidence of anything of the kind.

    Why are you so concerned about hypothetical racism versus white people rather than the real racism that is prevalent throughout the world?

    Edit; Also in regards to reparations, ideally we can form a free and equal society along communist principles where everyone has their needs met but that's hopelessly far off. Until then, if it's a choice between the status quo or the status quo with some readjustment to lessen the structural inequalities that effect black people then I'll go with making things more equal by implementing reparations.
    I am so sorry! I did not mean to accuse you guys, so take a deep breath. I understand that America is very divided right now, okay? The incident I am refering to, happened, on Facebook, before I went to the hospital. I was trying to be supportive of the black experience, by saying skin color, does not matter, and all that matters is in your heart. When I did that, several on the left, attacked me, for alleged, white privilege. it got so bad, i had to block, and ignore. I even stopped looking, at my notications.
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Thank you, i agree! Why can't we, just respect each other?
    smoothie
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5967 Pts   -  
    My ancestor was a Polish noble owning a few estates. Then communists came, took away all the property and executed him. 

    If the government is going to pay reparations to black people based on the mistreatment of their ancestors, then I expect to be given a few estates for free as a compensation for mistreatment of mine. I am not very demanding though, and I will accept a pay in US dollars instead, in the value equalling the value of those estates - with correction to the inflation and the currency conversion rate.

    Or we can just act like a mature society and move on, leaving the past in the past and looking towards the future. Here is a novel idea indeed!
    smoothieZombieguy1987
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:
    My ancestor was a Polish noble owning a few estates. Then communists came, took away all the property and executed him. 

    If the government is going to pay reparations to black people based on the mistreatment of their ancestors, then I expect to be given a few estates for free as a compensation for mistreatment of mine. I am not very demanding though, and I will accept a pay in US dollars instead, in the value equalling the value of those estates - with correction to the inflation and the currency conversion rate.

    Or we can just act like a mature society and move on, leaving the past in the past and looking towards the future. Here is a novel idea indeed!
    Right? Fair is fair. Skin color does not, and should not matter.
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -   edited January 2020
    Ampersand said:
    Can you link to a single time in your 1158 posts on this website where someone has responded by asking you to apologise for being white? Because if not, aren't you using the pain caused by racism to merely cement your own privilege and avoid having to respond to actual instances of racism which are disproportionately aimed at people of colour to a massive extent? Although to be honest even if you could provide examples, that just leads into an argument of "Of all the examples of racism in the world, why do you think internet name calling on a debate forum takes priority".

    I mean you've got another thread going right now about the perceived anti-white agenda of the left-wing, again with absolutely no evidence of anything of the kind.

    Why are you so concerned about hypothetical racism versus white people rather than the real racism that is prevalent throughout the world?

    Edit; Also in regards to reparations, ideally we can form a free and equal society along communist principles where everyone has their needs met but that's hopelessly far off. Until then, if it's a choice between the status quo or the status quo with some readjustment to lessen the structural inequalities that effect black people then I'll go with making things more equal by implementing reparations.
    I am so sorry! I did not mean to accuse you guys, so take a deep breath. I understand that America is very divided right now, okay? The incident I am refering to, happened, on Facebook, before I went to the hospital. I was trying to be supportive of the black experience, by saying skin color, does not matter, and all that matters is in your heart. When I did that, several on the left, attacked me, for alleged, white privilege. it got so bad, i had to block, and ignore. I even stopped looking, at my notications.
    Speaking as a fellow white person, you do come across as out of touch and having quite a lot of white privilege that seems to make you not notice how lopsided some of your comments are and how they can be quite troubling (and please note white privilege is not the same as being racist). I'm going to offer some heartfelt criticism which I hope you take on board and is meant in the spirit of you meaning well but really seeing some underlying issues with how you approach race.

    Take a look at your last few topics you've posted.

    You say things like  "skin color, does not matter, and all that matters is in your heart" and " I believe we are all one human race, and any alleged divisions, are arbitrary social constructs. I don't care who your anscestors were, i care who YOU are. I don't care what your skin color is, i care what is in your heart". Yes, absolutely! On the right track so far. Those are beliefs I wholeheartedly support and can agree with you on.

    The thing is, I don't then see you say things like:

    - "So let's stop structural racism such as discrimination in employment"

    or

    - "We need to introduce laws to stop police shooting unarmed black men with their backs turned to the police offer presenting no threat"

    Instead it always seems to be about you and the perceived slights you have suffered. Look at your OP here, what do you actually talk about? It's "I am so tired, of being pressured to apologize for being white" and "As a racial unity supporter, I am doing nothing wrong, and am entitled to not apologize". Are those the pressing racial injustices of the day? And it's not a one off - you have another topic active right now where you complain "I do believe I have the right to not be judged for being white".

    If in practice all you do is speak platitudes about racial equality and then focus 100% of your attention on the perceived injustices to white people; you're not actually supporting the idea of racial equality. You're mouthing platitudes about equality, then diminishing the racism people of colour suffer by focusing entirely on that suffered by white people.

    I think your support of #alllivesmatter is a great example of this. As a movement, what is it trying to achieve? #blacklivesmatter came about as a result of a history of racial injustice and police brutality that sparked in 2013 but had been building up for centuries. It was a broad movement aiming to bring about justice and racial equality and had specific policy aims like introducing body cams. They know all lives matter - that all people are created equal and deserving of rights isn't something black people don't know. The problem is, that's not what's happening. Black lives aren't treated as if they matter equal to white lives - at least not by society asa whole even if individuals do. To contrast that, what was #alllivesmatter? All it did was serve to criticise black people fighting for their rights and try and silence them.

    #blacklives matter doesn't mean that all lives don't matter; in fact the opposite. It means that because all lives matter we need to help those who are getting treated like they're less - namely people of colour.

    #Alllivesmatter doesn't mean all lives matter equally, functionally despite sounding egalitarian it's only used to shout down and diminish people who are actually looking for social justice.

    To summarise; if you believe in racial equality why don't you act like it rather than focusing all your care and concern on white people?
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Can you link to a single time in your 1158 posts on this website where someone has responded by asking you to apologise for being white? Because if not, aren't you using the pain caused by racism to merely cement your own privilege and avoid having to respond to actual instances of racism which are disproportionately aimed at people of colour to a massive extent? Although to be honest even if you could provide examples, that just leads into an argument of "Of all the examples of racism in the world, why do you think internet name calling on a debate forum takes priority".

    I mean you've got another thread going right now about the perceived anti-white agenda of the left-wing, again with absolutely no evidence of anything of the kind.

    Why are you so concerned about hypothetical racism versus white people rather than the real racism that is prevalent throughout the world?

    Edit; Also in regards to reparations, ideally we can form a free and equal society along communist principles where everyone has their needs met but that's hopelessly far off. Until then, if it's a choice between the status quo or the status quo with some readjustment to lessen the structural inequalities that effect black people then I'll go with making things more equal by implementing reparations.
    I am so sorry! I did not mean to accuse you guys, so take a deep breath. I understand that America is very divided right now, okay? The incident I am refering to, happened, on Facebook, before I went to the hospital. I was trying to be supportive of the black experience, by saying skin color, does not matter, and all that matters is in your heart. When I did that, several on the left, attacked me, for alleged, white privilege. it got so bad, i had to block, and ignore. I even stopped looking, at my notications.
    Speaking as a fellow white person, you do come across as out of touch and having quite a lot of white privilege that seems to make you not notice how lopsided some of your comments are and how they can be quite trouble. I'm going to offer some heartfelt criticism which I hope you take on board and is meant in the spirit of you meaning well but really seeing some underlying issues with how you approach race.

    Take a look at your last few topics you've posted.

    You say things like  "skin color, does not matter, and all that matters is in your heart" and " I believe we are all one human race, and any alleged divisions, are arbitrary social constructs. I don't care who your anscestors were, i care who YOU are. I don't care what your skin color is, i care what is in your heart". Yes, absolutely! On the right track so far. Those are beliefs I wholeheartedly support and can agree with you on.

    The thing is, I don't then see you say things like:

    - "So let's stop structural racism such as discrimination in employment"

    or

    - "We need to introduce laws to stop police shooting unarmed black men with their backs turned to the police offer presenting no threat"

    Instead it always seems to be about you and the perceived slights you have suffered. Look at your OP here, what do you actually talk about? It's "I am so tired, of being pressured to apologize for being white" and "As a racial unity supporter, I am doing nothing wrong, and am entitled to not apologize". Are those the pressing racial injustices of the day? And it's not a one off - you have another topic active right now where you complain "I do believe I have the right to not be judged for being white".

    If in practice all you do is speak platitudes about racial equality and then focus 100% of your attention on the perceived injustices to white people; you're not actually supporting the idea of racial equality. You're mouthing platitudes about equality, then diminishing the racism people of colour suffer by focusing entirely on that suffered by white people.

    I think your support of #alllivesmatter is a great example of this. As a movement, what is it trying to achieve? #blacklivesmatter came about as a result of a history of racial injustice and police brutality that sparked in 2013 but had been building up for centuries. It was a broad movement aiming to bring about justice and racial equality and had specific policy aims like introducing body cams. They know all lives matter - that all people are created equal and deserving of rights isn't something black people don't know. The problem is, that's not what's happening. Black lives aren't treated as if they matter equal to white lives - at least not by society asa whole even if individuals do. To contrast that, what was #alllivesmatter? All it did was serve to criticise black people fighting for their rights and try and silence them.

    #blacklives matter doesn't mean that all lives don't matter; in fact the opposite. It means that because all lives matter we need to help those who are getting treated like they're less - namely people of colour.

    #Alllivesmatter doesn't mean all lives matter equally, functionally despite sounding egalitarian it's only used to shout down and diminish people who are actually looking for social justice.

    To summarise; if you believe in racial equality why don't you act like it rather than focusing all your care and concern on white people?
    White privilege is a racist myth, made up by the left. I have the right to not be judged by the color of my skin, just as the black community, has that same right. I am just going to put it out there: You are a racist. By assuming that I am privileged, just because of the color of my skin, you have committed, the very act of racism, judging by skin color. America, is so over the racist and leftist social justice warrios on the left, and do you want to hear the sad thing? i actually agree with the left on some things. I honestly don't care about liberal or conservative feelings, as both sides are trying to divide this country on racial, and color lines, and it makes me sick! I respect every race, color, and creed, but I don't respect racists, of any persuasion, liberal, conservative, or otherwise.
  • smoothiesmoothie 434 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    YeshuaBoughtMayCaesar
    why so serious?
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -   edited January 2020
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Can you link to a single time in your 1158 posts on this website where someone has responded by asking you to apologise for being white? Because if not, aren't you using the pain caused by racism to merely cement your own privilege and avoid having to respond to actual instances of racism which are disproportionately aimed at people of colour to a massive extent? Although to be honest even if you could provide examples, that just leads into an argument of "Of all the examples of racism in the world, why do you think internet name calling on a debate forum takes priority".

    I mean you've got another thread going right now about the perceived anti-white agenda of the left-wing, again with absolutely no evidence of anything of the kind.

    Why are you so concerned about hypothetical racism versus white people rather than the real racism that is prevalent throughout the world?

    Edit; Also in regards to reparations, ideally we can form a free and equal society along communist principles where everyone has their needs met but that's hopelessly far off. Until then, if it's a choice between the status quo or the status quo with some readjustment to lessen the structural inequalities that effect black people then I'll go with making things more equal by implementing reparations.
    I am so sorry! I did not mean to accuse you guys, so take a deep breath. I understand that America is very divided right now, okay? The incident I am refering to, happened, on Facebook, before I went to the hospital. I was trying to be supportive of the black experience, by saying skin color, does not matter, and all that matters is in your heart. When I did that, several on the left, attacked me, for alleged, white privilege. it got so bad, i had to block, and ignore. I even stopped looking, at my notications.
    Speaking as a fellow white person, you do come across as out of touch and having quite a lot of white privilege that seems to make you not notice how lopsided some of your comments are and how they can be quite trouble. I'm going to offer some heartfelt criticism which I hope you take on board and is meant in the spirit of you meaning well but really seeing some underlying issues with how you approach race.

    Take a look at your last few topics you've posted.

    You say things like  "skin color, does not matter, and all that matters is in your heart" and " I believe we are all one human race, and any alleged divisions, are arbitrary social constructs. I don't care who your anscestors were, i care who YOU are. I don't care what your skin color is, i care what is in your heart". Yes, absolutely! On the right track so far. Those are beliefs I wholeheartedly support and can agree with you on.

    The thing is, I don't then see you say things like:

    - "So let's stop structural racism such as discrimination in employment"

    or

    - "We need to introduce laws to stop police shooting unarmed black men with their backs turned to the police offer presenting no threat"

    Instead it always seems to be about you and the perceived slights you have suffered. Look at your OP here, what do you actually talk about? It's "I am so tired, of being pressured to apologize for being white" and "As a racial unity supporter, I am doing nothing wrong, and am entitled to not apologize". Are those the pressing racial injustices of the day? And it's not a one off - you have another topic active right now where you complain "I do believe I have the right to not be judged for being white".

    If in practice all you do is speak platitudes about racial equality and then focus 100% of your attention on the perceived injustices to white people; you're not actually supporting the idea of racial equality. You're mouthing platitudes about equality, then diminishing the racism people of colour suffer by focusing entirely on that suffered by white people.

    I think your support of #alllivesmatter is a great example of this. As a movement, what is it trying to achieve? #blacklivesmatter came about as a result of a history of racial injustice and police brutality that sparked in 2013 but had been building up for centuries. It was a broad movement aiming to bring about justice and racial equality and had specific policy aims like introducing body cams. They know all lives matter - that all people are created equal and deserving of rights isn't something black people don't know. The problem is, that's not what's happening. Black lives aren't treated as if they matter equal to white lives - at least not by society asa whole even if individuals do. To contrast that, what was #alllivesmatter? All it did was serve to criticise black people fighting for their rights and try and silence them.

    #blacklives matter doesn't mean that all lives don't matter; in fact the opposite. It means that because all lives matter we need to help those who are getting treated like they're less - namely people of colour.

    #Alllivesmatter doesn't mean all lives matter equally, functionally despite sounding egalitarian it's only used to shout down and diminish people who are actually looking for social justice.

    To summarise; if you believe in racial equality why don't you act like it rather than focusing all your care and concern on white people?
    White privilege is a racist myth, made up by the left. I have the right to not be judged by the color of my skin, just as the black community, has that same right. I am just going to put it out there: You are a racist. By assuming that I am privileged, just because of the color of my skin, you have committed, the very act of racism, judging by skin color. America, is so over the racist and leftist social justice warrios on the left, and do you want to hear the sad thing? i actually agree with the left on some things. I honestly don't care about liberal or conservative feelings, as both sides are trying to divide this country on racial, and color lines, and it makes me sick! I respect every race, color, and creed, but I don't respect racists, of any persuasion, liberal, conservative, or otherwise.
    White privilege is a basic indisputable fact. It doesn't mean "This white person is racist" but refers to people benefiting in society purely from being white. To give you an example, if white people were more likely to get jobs just for being white that would be an example of white privilege. And guess what, we do!

    https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews - "Minority job applicants are “whitening” their resumes by deleting references to their race with the hope of boosting their shot at jobs, and research shows the strategy is paying off.

    In fact, companies are more than twice as likely to call minority applicants for interviews if they submit whitened resumes than candidates who reveal their race—and this discriminatory practice is just as strong for businesses that claim to value diversity as those that don’t."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46927417 - "Dr Valentina Di Stasio, co-author and an assistant professor at Utrecht University in the Netherlands, says the "shocking" results show that the level of discrimination in the job market has not changed since the late 1960s.

    "Because all of the minority applicants in our experiment were either British-born or had been British-educated from a young age, concerns about poor English language can't explain the large gaps in call-backs from employers," she says.

    "It suggests that employers may simply read no further as soon as they see a Middle Eastern-sounding or African-sounding name."


    https://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html - "Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback."

    There are countless studies showing this. Even when they make fake identical CVs with only the name changed to something that obviously comes form a person of colour and the education and qualifications are identical - people with traditionally white names come about ahead and that's just one of the many many examples of white privilege in society.

    So yes, White privilege IS real and you discarding it our of hand with no evidence is example of the mindset that white privilege brings about. White privilege is easily identifiable by either a) looking at the reams of evidence available or b) listening to people of colour and their experiences. That you have done neither and reject the idea out of hands just shows how systematic discrimination like this doesn't effect you.

    Also no-one is judging you by your skin colour, so I don't know why you're going back to your refrain of "I have the right to not be judged by the color of my skin". You're being judged by your actions - that you've said and what you've posted as well as your history of shouting over any injustice that affects the black community to focus specifically on the white community. Being judged by your actions is what you specifically asked for and said was the correct thing to do, but instead as soon as you actually receive criticism for your actions and the content of your characters, you revert to making wild claims like white privilege and shouting that obviously anyone who doesn't agree with you is a racist.

    Lastly, like I mentioned in my last post I'M ALSO A WHITE PERSON. Racism is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." How can I be racist if we're both white and I'm just criticising you based on your actions rather than your skin colour?

  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    Right? I so agree. i respect every race, color, and creed, and think no one should be judged for something they can't control, and is neither good nor, bad! Attatching value to color, is judgemental, and wrong.
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.

    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
    And what if someone was made to pay for their skin colour? And then their children? And then their children's children and then their children's children's children? What would be done to correct this injustice.

    You seem very upset about the hypothetical idea of white people suffering due to their skin colour.

    You haven't given the slightest concern for black people suffering due to their skin colour.

    Let me put it another war. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? If not, why the discrepancy?
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.

    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
    And what if someone was made to pay for their skin colour? And then their children? And then their children's children and then their children's children's children? What would be done to correct this injustice.

    You seem very upset about the hypothetical idea of white people suffering due to their skin colour.

    You haven't given the slightest concern for black people suffering due to their skin colour.

    Let me put it another war. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? If not, why the discrepancy?
    The government does not have the right to force me to pay for my skin color, so other people can be paid for looking a certain way. That is racist, and unconstitutional.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5967 Pts   -  
    I would like to hear an explanation of how my actions disadvantaged black people in any way. I know that actions of some of the people decades ago disadvantaged black people - but why should I pay for their mistakes again? And who is going to pay for the mistakes of those who disadvantaged white people, my ancestors?

    Here is how I see it: Stalin killed my great-grandfather, but Stalin has been dead for 67 years now. Unless we can somehow resurrect him and get him to pay for his mistakes, I do not see why anyone would owe me anything for that - and why me, for that matter? Let us resurrect both Stalin and my great-grandfather, and then have Stalin pay him for the mistreatment. I fail to see why anyone but these two should be involved in that particular case.

    Nobody has ever explained to me in what way I am responsible for Jim Crow laws or slavery in the US, but many want me to pay for it regardless, just because my skin happens to have white-ish color.
    If this is not racism, then I do not know what is. What else do you call it when someone has to pay solely for being a member of a particular race?
    YeshuaBought
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.

    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
    And what if someone was made to pay for their skin colour? And then their children? And then their children's children and then their children's children's children? What would be done to correct this injustice.

    You seem very upset about the hypothetical idea of white people suffering due to their skin colour.

    You haven't given the slightest concern for black people suffering due to their skin colour.

    Let me put it another war. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? If not, why the discrepancy?
    The government does not have the right to force me to pay for my skin color, so other people can be paid for looking a certain way. That is racist, and unconstitutional.
    No-one's trying to do that so it's an irrelevant strawman.

    Do you think someone randomly woke up and decided that one ethnicity needed to pay money to another? It's not because of skin colour, it's because of hundreds of years of oppression aimed at that skin colour. It's based on past actions and current socioeconomic circumstances. The abuse and suffering and torture and slavery and discrimination happens to have been focused on one race - but it's the actions and their results which cause the need for recompense.

    Now, you avoided the question so I'll ask you again. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? It's another situation where people are expected to pay for other people's suffering despite having no personal involvement in it, possibly being very sympathetic and caring for it and only benefiting from it incidentally. So if they should have to give it back but white society shouldn't have to pay back for the crimes against black society, why the discrepancy?


  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.

    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
    And what if someone was made to pay for their skin colour? And then their children? And then their children's children and then their children's children's children? What would be done to correct this injustice.

    You seem very upset about the hypothetical idea of white people suffering due to their skin colour.

    You haven't given the slightest concern for black people suffering due to their skin colour.

    Let me put it another war. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? If not, why the discrepancy?
    The government does not have the right to force me to pay for my skin color, so other people can be paid for looking a certain way. That is racist, and unconstitutional.
    No-one's trying to do that so it's an irrelevant strawman.

    Do you think someone randomly woke up and decided that one ethnicity needed to pay money to another? It's not because of skin colour, it's because of hundreds of years of oppression aimed at that skin colour. It's based on past actions and current socioeconomic circumstances. The abuse and suffering and torture and slavery and discrimination happens to have been focused on one race - but it's the actions and their results which cause the need for recompense.

    Now, you avoided the question so I'll ask you again. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? It's another situation where people are expected to pay for other people's suffering despite having no personal involvement in it, possibly being very sympathetic and caring for it and only benefiting from it incidentally. So if they should have to give it back but white society shouldn't have to pay back for the crimes against black society, why the discrepancy?


    I don't answer to you. We are not discussing Nazi germany. America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community. I am done engaging with you, so troll on, with someone else. i still have the right to not be judged by or pay for, my skin color. 
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:
    I would like to hear an explanation of how my actions disadvantaged black people in any way. I know that actions of some of the people decades ago disadvantaged black people - but why should I pay for their mistakes again? And who is going to pay for the mistakes of those who disadvantaged white people, my ancestors?

    Here is how I see it: Stalin killed my great-grandfather, but Stalin has been dead for 67 years now. Unless we can somehow resurrect him and get him to pay for his mistakes, I do not see why anyone would owe me anything for that - and why me, for that matter? Let us resurrect both Stalin and my great-grandfather, and then have Stalin pay him for the mistreatment. I fail to see why anyone but these two should be involved in that particular case.

    Nobody has ever explained to me in what way I am responsible for Jim Crow laws or slavery in the US, but many want me to pay for it regardless, just because my skin happens to have white-ish color.
    If this is not racism, then I do not know what is. What else do you call it when someone has to pay solely for being a member of a particular race?
    Agreed. You are making valid points.
  • smoothiesmoothie 434 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.
    Who said I was happy with white people having a socioeconomic advantage? You are blowing my stances much out of proportion. I can support civil equality without supporting racial handouts.

    By law, there should be no advantage or disadvantage to any race. Is it wrong that some people have a bias benefitting or disadvantaging a certain race? Yes, obviously. How do you solve it? Eliminate racial disparity. So, more racial disparity is not the solution? Do not fight fire with fire.

    If anybody feels they are being discriminated against they should complain, but forcing the government to give a handout to EVERY person of a group just because of their skin color, as I said, is encouraging more racial disparity. That is not equality.
    why so serious?
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.

    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
    And what if someone was made to pay for their skin colour? And then their children? And then their children's children and then their children's children's children? What would be done to correct this injustice.

    You seem very upset about the hypothetical idea of white people suffering due to their skin colour.

    You haven't given the slightest concern for black people suffering due to their skin colour.

    Let me put it another war. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? If not, why the discrepancy?
    The government does not have the right to force me to pay for my skin color, so other people can be paid for looking a certain way. That is racist, and unconstitutional.
    No-one's trying to do that so it's an irrelevant strawman.

    Do you think someone randomly woke up and decided that one ethnicity needed to pay money to another? It's not because of skin colour, it's because of hundreds of years of oppression aimed at that skin colour. It's based on past actions and current socioeconomic circumstances. The abuse and suffering and torture and slavery and discrimination happens to have been focused on one race - but it's the actions and their results which cause the need for recompense.

    Now, you avoided the question so I'll ask you again. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? It's another situation where people are expected to pay for other people's suffering despite having no personal involvement in it, possibly being very sympathetic and caring for it and only benefiting from it incidentally. So if they should have to give it back but white society shouldn't have to pay back for the crimes against black society, why the discrepancy?


    I don't answer to you. We are not discussing Nazi germany. America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community. I am done engaging with you, so troll on, with someone else. i still have the right to not be judged by or pay for, my skin color. 
    You can't answer because you know it'll show the discrepancy. You're happy for white people to be repaid but not black people. Hmmm, how strange.

    Also I'll just point out you've just directly said tou think it's doing black people a favour to treat them as lessers for a hundred years and then legal equal for decades. You don't think that treating them as equals should be the neutral norm of society?
    YeshuaBought
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.
    Who said I was happy with white people having a socioeconomic advantage? You are blowing my stances much out of proportion. I can support civil equality without supporting racial handouts.

    By law, there should be no advantage or disadvantage to any race. Is it wrong that some people have a bias benefitting or disadvantaging a certain race? Yes, obviously. How do you solve it? Eliminate racial disparity. So, more racial disparity is not the solution? Do not fight fire with fire.

    If anybody feels they are being discriminated against they should complain, but forcing the government to give a handout to EVERY person of a group just because of their skin color, as I said, is encouraging more racial disparity. That is not equality.
    You are willing to take no action to change the white socioeconomic advantage and are actively defending the status quo. Do you have any other alternatives besides wishing for a better world?

    The issue you raise with this is that "more racial disparity is not the solution" but reparations reduce racial disparity. You have conceded white people have a socioeconomic advantage. Reparations don't need to be so large that black people end up with a great socio-economic advantage than white people - it should just be enough to level the playing field and give everyone an equal start - which is where we would be if not for centuries of oppression by the white elite.

    That's what you say you want. Also it's not giving people handouts based on skin colour, it's giving people reparations based on their suffering caused by the actions of others, which is completely normal. It's odd how every pretends they're being given money because of their race and then picks it up as an issue for why it can't happen.
    smoothie
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:
    I would like to hear an explanation of how my actions disadvantaged black people in any way. I know that actions of some of the people decades ago disadvantaged black people - but why should I pay for their mistakes again? And who is going to pay for the mistakes of those who disadvantaged white people, my ancestors?

    Here is how I see it: Stalin killed my great-grandfather, but Stalin has been dead for 67 years now. Unless we can somehow resurrect him and get him to pay for his mistakes, I do not see why anyone would owe me anything for that - and why me, for that matter? Let us resurrect both Stalin and my great-grandfather, and then have Stalin pay him for the mistreatment. I fail to see why anyone but these two should be involved in that particular case.

    Nobody has ever explained to me in what way I am responsible for Jim Crow laws or slavery in the US, but many want me to pay for it regardless, just because my skin happens to have white-ish color.
    If this is not racism, then I do not know what is. What else do you call it when someone has to pay solely for being a member of a particular race?
    If you've had any engagement at all in this topic, you must know that none of the arguments and claims you meant actually represent what's being discussed so why would anyone waste time arguing with you when you're obviously acting in bad faith?
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.

    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
    And what if someone was made to pay for their skin colour? And then their children? And then their children's children and then their children's children's children? What would be done to correct this injustice.

    You seem very upset about the hypothetical idea of white people suffering due to their skin colour.

    You haven't given the slightest concern for black people suffering due to their skin colour.

    Let me put it another war. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? If not, why the discrepancy?
    The government does not have the right to force me to pay for my skin color, so other people can be paid for looking a certain way. That is racist, and unconstitutional.
    No-one's trying to do that so it's an irrelevant strawman.

    Do you think someone randomly woke up and decided that one ethnicity needed to pay money to another? It's not because of skin colour, it's because of hundreds of years of oppression aimed at that skin colour. It's based on past actions and current socioeconomic circumstances. The abuse and suffering and torture and slavery and discrimination happens to have been focused on one race - but it's the actions and their results which cause the need for recompense.

    Now, you avoided the question so I'll ask you again. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? It's another situation where people are expected to pay for other people's suffering despite having no personal involvement in it, possibly being very sympathetic and caring for it and only benefiting from it incidentally. So if they should have to give it back but white society shouldn't have to pay back for the crimes against black society, why the discrepancy?


    I don't answer to you. We are not discussing Nazi germany. America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community. I am done engaging with you, so troll on, with someone else. i still have the right to not be judged by or pay for, my skin color. 
    You can't answer because you know it'll show the discrepancy. You're happy for white people to be repaid but not black people. Hmmm, how strange.

    Also I'll just point out you've just directly said tou think it's doing black people a favour to treat them as lessers for a hundred years and then legal equal for decades. You don't think that treating them as equals should be the neutral norm of society?
    That's a lie. i never said that black people were less than me. I said that I support racial unity, which means we are all one human race, and everyone should be respected, regardless of skin color. on multiple occasions, I have said that I agree with Doctor King Jr., who said: We should be judged by the content of our character, and NOT by the color of our skin. NOWHERE have I indicated, that I think less of blacks, than i do of whites. In fact, i have more respect for black people, than you do, because I treat them like equals, and respect them with dignity, instead of treating black people, as perpetual victims, forever trapped by the systemic victim mentallity.
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.

    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
    And what if someone was made to pay for their skin colour? And then their children? And then their children's children and then their children's children's children? What would be done to correct this injustice.

    You seem very upset about the hypothetical idea of white people suffering due to their skin colour.

    You haven't given the slightest concern for black people suffering due to their skin colour.

    Let me put it another war. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? If not, why the discrepancy?
    The government does not have the right to force me to pay for my skin color, so other people can be paid for looking a certain way. That is racist, and unconstitutional.
    No-one's trying to do that so it's an irrelevant strawman.

    Do you think someone randomly woke up and decided that one ethnicity needed to pay money to another? It's not because of skin colour, it's because of hundreds of years of oppression aimed at that skin colour. It's based on past actions and current socioeconomic circumstances. The abuse and suffering and torture and slavery and discrimination happens to have been focused on one race - but it's the actions and their results which cause the need for recompense.

    Now, you avoided the question so I'll ask you again. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? It's another situation where people are expected to pay for other people's suffering despite having no personal involvement in it, possibly being very sympathetic and caring for it and only benefiting from it incidentally. So if they should have to give it back but white society shouldn't have to pay back for the crimes against black society, why the discrepancy?


    I don't answer to you. We are not discussing Nazi germany. America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community. I am done engaging with you, so troll on, with someone else. i still have the right to not be judged by or pay for, my skin color. 
    You can't answer because you know it'll show the discrepancy. You're happy for white people to be repaid but not black people. Hmmm, how strange.

    Also I'll just point out you've just directly said tou think it's doing black people a favour to treat them as lessers for a hundred years and then legal equal for decades. You don't think that treating them as equals should be the neutral norm of society?
    That's a lie. i never said that black people were less than me. I said that I support racial unity, which means we are all one human race, and everyone should be respected, regardless of skin color. on multiple occasions, I have said that I agree with Doctor King Jr., who said: We should be judged by the content of our character, and NOT by the color of our skin. NOWHERE have I indicated, that I think less of blacks, than i do of whites. In fact, i have more respect for black people, than you do, because I treat them like equals, and respect them with dignity, instead of treating black people, as perpetual victims, forever trapped by the systemic victim mentallity.
    "America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community." - YeshuaBought

    You directly explain how you think treating black people as lesser for a hundred years (post abolitionism) then legal equals (post civil rights) pays black people back for slavery. You specifically say that merely by treating them as lessers and then equals America has paid black people back for all their suffering.

    Me personlly, I think treating people with equality is the standard.
  • smoothiesmoothie 434 Pts   -   edited January 2020
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.
    Who said I was happy with white people having a socioeconomic advantage? You are blowing my stances much out of proportion. I can support civil equality without supporting racial handouts.

    By law, there should be no advantage or disadvantage to any race. Is it wrong that some people have a bias benefitting or disadvantaging a certain race? Yes, obviously. How do you solve it? Eliminate racial disparity. So, more racial disparity is not the solution? Do not fight fire with fire.

    If anybody feels they are being discriminated against they should complain, but forcing the government to give a handout to EVERY person of a group just because of their skin color, as I said, is encouraging more racial disparity. That is not equality.
    You are willing to take no action to change the white socioeconomic advantage and are actively defending the status quo. Do you have any other alternatives besides wishing for a better world?

    The issue you raise with this is that "more racial disparity is not the solution" but reparations reduce racial disparity. You have conceded white people have a socioeconomic advantage. Reparations don't need to be so large that black people end up with a great socio-economic advantage than white people - it should just be enough to level the playing field and give everyone an equal start - which is where we would be if not for centuries of oppression by the white elite.

    That's what you say you want. Also it's not giving people handouts based on skin colour, it's giving people reparations based on their suffering caused by the actions of others, which is completely normal. It's odd how every pretends they're being given money because of their race and then picks it up as an issue for why it can't happen.
    Again, fallacy. You assume because I don't support reparations that I actively support doing zero. The topic is reparations.

    I did NOT concede every white person currently has a socio-economic advantage. You love taking anything I say out of proportion. Let me rephrase "Who said I was happy with any possible socioeconomic advantage to every white person if it so existed?" You need to chill out

    It IS a handout if a black person has the same civil rights as white people under the law. This is disparity.

    Stop supporting racial disparity. Stop dividing individuals into racial boxes. We as a society should learn from our mistakes and move on.
    why so serious?
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.

    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
    And what if someone was made to pay for their skin colour? And then their children? And then their children's children and then their children's children's children? What would be done to correct this injustice.

    You seem very upset about the hypothetical idea of white people suffering due to their skin colour.

    You haven't given the slightest concern for black people suffering due to their skin colour.

    Let me put it another war. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? If not, why the discrepancy?
    The government does not have the right to force me to pay for my skin color, so other people can be paid for looking a certain way. That is racist, and unconstitutional.
    No-one's trying to do that so it's an irrelevant strawman.

    Do you think someone randomly woke up and decided that one ethnicity needed to pay money to another? It's not because of skin colour, it's because of hundreds of years of oppression aimed at that skin colour. It's based on past actions and current socioeconomic circumstances. The abuse and suffering and torture and slavery and discrimination happens to have been focused on one race - but it's the actions and their results which cause the need for recompense.

    Now, you avoided the question so I'll ask you again. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? It's another situation where people are expected to pay for other people's suffering despite having no personal involvement in it, possibly being very sympathetic and caring for it and only benefiting from it incidentally. So if they should have to give it back but white society shouldn't have to pay back for the crimes against black society, why the discrepancy?


    I don't answer to you. We are not discussing Nazi germany. America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community. I am done engaging with you, so troll on, with someone else. i still have the right to not be judged by or pay for, my skin color. 
    You can't answer because you know it'll show the discrepancy. You're happy for white people to be repaid but not black people. Hmmm, how strange.

    Also I'll just point out you've just directly said tou think it's doing black people a favour to treat them as lessers for a hundred years and then legal equal for decades. You don't think that treating them as equals should be the neutral norm of society?
    That's a lie. i never said that black people were less than me. I said that I support racial unity, which means we are all one human race, and everyone should be respected, regardless of skin color. on multiple occasions, I have said that I agree with Doctor King Jr., who said: We should be judged by the content of our character, and NOT by the color of our skin. NOWHERE have I indicated, that I think less of blacks, than i do of whites. In fact, i have more respect for black people, than you do, because I treat them like equals, and respect them with dignity, instead of treating black people, as perpetual victims, forever trapped by the systemic victim mentallity.
    "America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community." - YeshuaBought

    You directly explain how you think treating black people as lesser for a hundred years (post abolitionism) then legal equals (post civil rights) pays black people back for slavery. You specifically say that merely by treating them as lessers and then equals America has paid black people back for all their suffering.

    Me personlly, I think treating people with equality is the standard.
    I don't have to, because that is not my damn fault. Like I have said on many occasions, i never said that blacks were less than whites. you are a . You have no proof i said or support that. !
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5967 Pts   -  
    Reparations actually do not reduce racial disparity. There have been two major cases of reparations in the recent human history: to the indigenous population of Canada, and to the aboriginal population of Australia. The result of both is extreme deterioration of the respective populations' quality of life, skyrocketing unemployment rates and further segregation from the society.
    On the other hand, in countries where major reparations never happened, such as the US or Japan, formerly discriminated against groups actually managed to uplift themselves by using opportunities which were now granted to them alongside with everyone else, and close the gap dramatically.

    Communists always think that inequality can be addressed by simple redistribution. It is a shepherd's mentality, showing lack of any awareness of the real life social and economical realities and incentives. They do not understand that economical resources are not static, that people tend to not keep the wealth they have received for free, but to keep and multiply the wealth they have earned through hard work.

    Then, again, if they understood anything at all about society, then they would not be communists, would they?
    YeshuaBoughtsmoothie
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.

    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
    And what if someone was made to pay for their skin colour? And then their children? And then their children's children and then their children's children's children? What would be done to correct this injustice.

    You seem very upset about the hypothetical idea of white people suffering due to their skin colour.

    You haven't given the slightest concern for black people suffering due to their skin colour.

    Let me put it another war. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? If not, why the discrepancy?
    The government does not have the right to force me to pay for my skin color, so other people can be paid for looking a certain way. That is racist, and unconstitutional.
    No-one's trying to do that so it's an irrelevant strawman.

    Do you think someone randomly woke up and decided that one ethnicity needed to pay money to another? It's not because of skin colour, it's because of hundreds of years of oppression aimed at that skin colour. It's based on past actions and current socioeconomic circumstances. The abuse and suffering and torture and slavery and discrimination happens to have been focused on one race - but it's the actions and their results which cause the need for recompense.

    Now, you avoided the question so I'll ask you again. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? It's another situation where people are expected to pay for other people's suffering despite having no personal involvement in it, possibly being very sympathetic and caring for it and only benefiting from it incidentally. So if they should have to give it back but white society shouldn't have to pay back for the crimes against black society, why the discrepancy?


    I don't answer to you. We are not discussing Nazi germany. America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community. I am done engaging with you, so troll on, with someone else. i still have the right to not be judged by or pay for, my skin color. 
    You can't answer because you know it'll show the discrepancy. You're happy for white people to be repaid but not black people. Hmmm, how strange.

    Also I'll just point out you've just directly said tou think it's doing black people a favour to treat them as lessers for a hundred years and then legal equal for decades. You don't think that treating them as equals should be the neutral norm of society?
    That's a lie. i never said that black people were less than me. I said that I support racial unity, which means we are all one human race, and everyone should be respected, regardless of skin color. on multiple occasions, I have said that I agree with Doctor King Jr., who said: We should be judged by the content of our character, and NOT by the color of our skin. NOWHERE have I indicated, that I think less of blacks, than i do of whites. In fact, i have more respect for black people, than you do, because I treat them like equals, and respect them with dignity, instead of treating black people, as perpetual victims, forever trapped by the systemic victim mentallity.
    "America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community." - YeshuaBought

    You directly explain how you think treating black people as lesser for a hundred years (post abolitionism) then legal equals (post civil rights) pays black people back for slavery. You specifically say that merely by treating them as lessers and then equals America has paid black people back for all their suffering.

    Me personlly, I think treating people with equality is the standard.
    I don't have to, because that is not my damn fault. Like I have said on many occasions, i never said that blacks were less than whites. you are a . You have no proof i said or support that. !
    "I don't have to, because that is not my damn fault. "

    Not a single crime that happens in my country is my fault, but I still pay tax to cover it. I don't get ill and don't need the doctor, but my money still goes to cover the health service. Paying tax never has been about whether something is your fault so quit it with the excuses.

    Also instead of calling me a , how about you read what you said and what I said. You specifically said that black people were paid back for slavery by abolitionism. "America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism". That's you, they're your words. You can control+F them and find them on the page above. Now how in the hell is treating black people as lesser second class citizens, which is what happened after slavery was abolished, doing them a favour and paying them back for slavery? Do you think they said "Gee thanks, getting to live in poverty and occasionally be lynched is great, it sure makes up for slavery 100%!"?

    Instead of screaming "" for no reason, how about you explain the crazy stuff you've said and that I've directly quoted you saying?
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  

    Should African Americans have reperations?


    Why should they have such? Why not address the issues that afflict them as in proper educational opportunities, housing and employment? How would paying them a sum of money offer sustainable long term benefits?

    Also why not apply the same logic to native Americans and give them back the land stolen on them? 
    smoothiePlaffelvohfen
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.

    (cartoon)

    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I don't believe the solution to end oppression is to simply throw money at a race group because of our mistakes.

    The viable and fair solution is for each individual to stop having racial bias. Is that something we can reach? I think if we stop dividing the country into racial groups it could be done in time. I certainly never attempted to oppress anybody because of their skin, and grouping people together as a group that should be responsible for racial oppression is not fair at all, especially the younger generations who should not be grown up being put into boxes as "victimized" and "oppressor".

    I don't think it is fair for somebody to get an economic handout because of the color of their skin, something they did not choose. The same way that nobody "deserves" oppression and discrimination for their skin color.

    I think giving somebody an economic handout for their skin color is encouraging racial disparity and is only furthering the issue.
    You're contradicting yourself. You say you're against people being given an economic handout based on their skin colour, but you are perfectly happy for white people to have a socioeconomic advantage brought about by hundreds of years of government intervention in oppressing black people to the benefit of white.

    It's only when we look to change that and restore economic equality that you have issues.

    Also society as a whole being responsible for societal issues is kind of the entire point of human civilisation. Do you think you shouldn't have to pay for police because it's not your problem if someone on the other side of town is hurt? Or that you should have to pay for FEMA so people in disaster areas that don't involve you should get help? The entire basis of how we operate as a society is getting involve in other people's and making changes based on various rationales. So if you want to explain WHY you don't want to help bring about equality and socio-economic justice to black people you can but don;t for a second sit there and pretend that making people pay taxes to pay for things that benefit other people is a radical idea seeing as that applies to basically everything we pay for with tax and so it isn't something that can be rejected out of hand.

    Ampersand said:
    smoothie said:
    I don't see how giving a minority group reparations from the government because of things in the past is in any way worthwhile or productive.

    People need to focus on the now if we want to get ahead.
    Paying for your mistakes and providing justice are basic human, moral and American concepts. It's why we put people in prison if they do things wrong, pay back our debts when we borrow money, help those in dire need, etc.

    The three questions which need to be asked are:

    a) Did the government do anything wrong? Yes, obviously, slavery was wrong as was Jim Crow and all the other racist awfulness the USA did for centuries.

    b) Does this harm still effect black people now? Yes, your chances in life are in large part determined by the circumstances you grow up on. Clack people's socioeconomic circumstances are still harmed by the overt discrimination they suffered for centuries and the more subtle but still statistically verifiable discrimination of today.



    c) Can giving money help equalise the unfairly reduced socioeconomic status of African-americans? Yes, obviously.

    Seems like a good idea to me.
    I should not have to pay for my skin color, that is racist, to say otherwise. No one has the right to be paid for their skin color. 
    And what if someone was made to pay for their skin colour? And then their children? And then their children's children and then their children's children's children? What would be done to correct this injustice.

    You seem very upset about the hypothetical idea of white people suffering due to their skin colour.

    You haven't given the slightest concern for black people suffering due to their skin colour.

    Let me put it another war. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? If not, why the discrepancy?
    The government does not have the right to force me to pay for my skin color, so other people can be paid for looking a certain way. That is racist, and unconstitutional.
    No-one's trying to do that so it's an irrelevant strawman.

    Do you think someone randomly woke up and decided that one ethnicity needed to pay money to another? It's not because of skin colour, it's because of hundreds of years of oppression aimed at that skin colour. It's based on past actions and current socioeconomic circumstances. The abuse and suffering and torture and slavery and discrimination happens to have been focused on one race - but it's the actions and their results which cause the need for recompense.

    Now, you avoided the question so I'll ask you again. Should the children of Nazi war criminals have to give back the riches and artwork that their parent or grandparents took by looting innocent victims during WW2? It's another situation where people are expected to pay for other people's suffering despite having no personal involvement in it, possibly being very sympathetic and caring for it and only benefiting from it incidentally. So if they should have to give it back but white society shouldn't have to pay back for the crimes against black society, why the discrepancy?


    I don't answer to you. We are not discussing Nazi germany. America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community. I am done engaging with you, so troll on, with someone else. i still have the right to not be judged by or pay for, my skin color. 
    You can't answer because you know it'll show the discrepancy. You're happy for white people to be repaid but not black people. Hmmm, how strange.

    Also I'll just point out you've just directly said tou think it's doing black people a favour to treat them as lessers for a hundred years and then legal equal for decades. You don't think that treating them as equals should be the neutral norm of society?
    That's a lie. i never said that black people were less than me. I said that I support racial unity, which means we are all one human race, and everyone should be respected, regardless of skin color. on multiple occasions, I have said that I agree with Doctor King Jr., who said: We should be judged by the content of our character, and NOT by the color of our skin. NOWHERE have I indicated, that I think less of blacks, than i do of whites. In fact, i have more respect for black people, than you do, because I treat them like equals, and respect them with dignity, instead of treating black people, as perpetual victims, forever trapped by the systemic victim mentallity.
    "America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism. Also, civil rights legislation, has helped the black community." - YeshuaBought

    You directly explain how you think treating black people as lesser for a hundred years (post abolitionism) then legal equals (post civil rights) pays black people back for slavery. You specifically say that merely by treating them as lessers and then equals America has paid black people back for all their suffering.

    Me personlly, I think treating people with equality is the standard.
    I don't have to, because that is not my damn fault. Like I have said on many occasions, i never said that blacks were less than whites. you are a . You have no proof i said or support that. !
    "I don't have to, because that is not my damn fault. "

    Not a single crime that happens in my country is my fault, but I still pay tax to cover it. I don't get ill and don't need the doctor, but my money still goes to cover the health service. Paying tax never has been about whether something is your fault so quit it with the excuses.

    Also instead of calling me a , how about you read what you said and what I said. You specifically said that black people were paid back for slavery by abolitionism. "America has more than paid for the act of slavery, through abolitionalism". That's you, they're your words. You can control+F them and find them on the page above. Now how in the hell is treating black people as lesser second class citizens, which is what happened after slavery was abolished, doing them a favour and paying them back for slavery? Do you think they said "Gee thanks, getting to live in poverty and occasionally be lynched is great, it sure makes up for slavery 100%!"?

    Instead of screaming "" for no reason, how about you explain the crazy stuff you've said and that I've directly quoted you saying?
    You are a for twisting what I am saying. I never said black people were less than white people, so libel will get you nowhere. Also, I have the right to not pay for something I did not do. I have done nothing wrong, so deal with it. I will never change my mind, so why are you trying to force your liberal lies on me? You are just as twisted as the right.
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Dee said:

    Should African Americans have reperations?


    Why should they have such? Why not address the issues that afflict them as in proper educational opportunities, housing and employment? How would paying them a sum of money offer sustainable long term benefits?

    Also why not apply the same logic to native Americans and give them back the land stolen on them? 
    Don't play the race card. No one cares about skin color, anymore.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @YeshuaBought


    ***** Don't play the race card

    I’m not don’t try to shy away from your racist remarks 

    . *****No one cares about skin color, anymore

    You certainly do you never stop going on about it 
  • smoothiesmoothie 434 Pts   -  
    Dee said:

    Should African Americans have reperations?


    Why should they have such? Why not address the issues that afflict them as in proper educational opportunities, housing and employment? How would paying them a sum of money offer sustainable long term benefits?

    Also why not apply the same logic to native Americans and give them back the land stolen on them? 
    I totally agree. Address the issues directly instead of just paying every person of a minority group affected whether they are involved or not. This makes much more sense.

    Throwing money at random people doesn't solve anything and does not fix the problem. I would rather they fund infastructure in these affected communities to actually solve the problem.
    Plaffelvohfen
    why so serious?
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @smoothie

    I’m glad that you and I see this as the most reasonable solution to this problem , it’s aims are at long term not sort term which is exactly what reparations would do 
    smoothie
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