Dems running for President want to end the Hyde amendment protecting us from paying to abort babies

Happy_Killbot

It's not the Democratic party, just some of the candidates. Joe Biden for example, supports this policy. I hate it when people overgeneralize without doing their research first, because it just spreads misinformation and further supports divisions along party lines.

Anyone who thinks "It's Republicans vs Democrats" of "Conservatives vs. Progressives" abandons their ability to think rationally about political subjects in favor of tribal thinking and identity politics.

Besides that, the abortion debate is dumb, technology will eventually make the whole thing silly strife of the past, and I am more than happy to talk about this and why policies like the Hyde amendment will be ultimately futile given the right technological developments.

YeshuaBought

I do not believe the government has the right, to force someone to pay for something, they don't believe in, and I don't care about liberal feelings.

Happy_Killbot

@YeshuaBought So... what if someone doesn't care for the police, military, firefighters, congress, CIA, FBI, NSA, or any of the thousands of other policies enacted by elected officials?

Should they just not pay taxes then?

This is not liberal thinking, all except the most extreme anarchists understand the value of taxation.

AlofRI

I REALLY don't like my tax money to go to Trumps hugely expensive Golf outings! We will find that the cost of these games that they are withholding until AT LEAST after the election, (kind of like the Trump income tax records they with held 'til after the "audit"). We likely will never see either! I have NO DOUBT that Trump (and his family) will be THEE most expensive Presidential family in history IF and WHEN either ever come out, even though he "takes no salary"! 
We will find that the expenses the Secret Service pays for rooms AT HIS resorts/hotels, AND the meals they have to pay for while keeping him under surveillance, the golf carts they have to rent, the air traffic we have to compensate for, the area police we have to compensate for, etc. etc. will add up to hundreds of $millions of OUR tax money OVER other Presidents …. who weren't putting much of it in their own (likely offshore) bank accounts!

We HAVE to supply the money to keep our country running! If you could only pay YOUR money to cover what YOU want … would it be to keep Trump rich?? I would like the top corporations to pay for "Johns" excesses, but, instead, they don't even pay for the road and airport maintenance that ALLOWS them to make money. WE have to make up for the ZERO taxes many of them pay!

'Point is, we have to pay for what those in charge want. I would hope we can get back to paying for what WE, the PEOPLE want and need, instead of packing the Trump coffers! (After the next election!) It could be that we will be paying for HIS excesses for many years, after we get to see the "check"! :-(

AlofRI

YeshuaBought said:

I do not believe the government has the right, to force someone to pay for something, they don't believe in, and I don't care about liberal feelings.

Honestly. Would YOU have happily paid for the birth, possibly some complications, and maybe the expense of a sick of deformed baby that could have arisen from your rape?? Some would shudder at the thought of carrying the fetus of a rapist for 9 months! They should have, as Americans, the CHOICE to abort what they felt was a disgusting growth inside them! Certainly not the fetus's fault, but, a mental strain on the "carrier" that SHE didn't deserve, either!
Frankly, they can use MY money to pay for the Hyde Amendment! If you want yours to go to the Trump family of golfers and rare animal killers, … you have THAT right.

YeshuaBought

Happy_Killbot said:

@YeshuaBought So... what if someone doesn't care for the police, military, firefighters, congress, CIA, FBI, NSA, or any of the thousands of other policies enacted by elected officials?

Should they just not pay taxes then?

This is not liberal thinking, all except the most extreme anarchists understand the value of taxation.

I will discuss the Hye Amendment, and nothing else. You are off topic, and I don't have to answer your question.

YeshuaBought

AlofRI said:

YeshuaBought said:

I do not believe the government has the right, to force someone to pay for something, they don't believe in, and I don't care about liberal feelings.

Honestly. Would YOU have happily paid for the birth, possibly some complications, and maybe the expense of a sick of deformed baby that could have arisen from your rape?? Some would shudder at the thought of carrying the fetus of a rapist for 9 months! They should have, as Americans, the CHOICE to abort what they felt was a disgusting growth inside them! Certainly not the fetus's fault, but, a mental strain on the "carrier" that SHE didn't deserve, either!
Frankly, they can use MY money to pay for the Hyde Amendment! If you want yours to go to the Trump family of golfers and rare animal killers, … you have THAT right.

I have the right to religious liberty, and to not pay for something, that is against my religion. The government does not have the right, to force me to do anything, that goes against my religious beliefs, and I just don't care about liberal feelings.

Happy_Killbot

YeshuaBought said:

Happy_Killbot said:

@YeshuaBought So... what if someone doesn't care for the police, military, firefighters, congress, CIA, FBI, NSA, or any of the thousands of other policies enacted by elected officials?

Should they just not pay taxes then?

This is not liberal thinking, all except the most extreme anarchists understand the value of taxation.

I will discuss the Hye Amendment, and nothing else. You are off topic, and I don't have to answer your question.

I don't think you can answer my questions anyways.

If publicly elected officials use their power to remove the Hyde Amendment, why should we not pay for it through taxes, just because some people don't feel like they should have to?

We_are_accountable

I hate it when you are the one being deceptive and denying how extreme the Democrat Party has become. Either you missed the Democrat debates, or you are very deceptive. Yes, Joe Biden used to support the Hyde Amendment but was shamed by all the other Democrats to flip flop. He is now in favor of eliminating the Hyde amendment!

There is a huge difference between the Democrat Party and the GOP when it comes to abortion. This is why Feminists scream every single election how the GOP will end Roe V Wade if elected.

Maybe you missed it where Trump stopped forcing tax payers to fund Planned Parenthood. He gave PP a choice that they could keep funding if they stoppped their abortion trade. He told them they could keep funding for helping women with their healthcare needs, birth control, etc., but not abortions. THEY REFUSED to stop their money making abortion trade.

Republicans tried to pass a 20 week limit on abortions (still allowing extreme cases), but the Bill did not pass thanks to an almot unanimous Democrat vote against the Bill.

Trump stopped funding for abortions in other nations. He has been the greatest pro life President we have ever had and for you to say there is no difference between Parties on this issue, is total deception! @Happy_Killbot

RickeyD

The Progressive Democrat Socialist Party is Satan's representative in Time and in America. No one with a modicum of common decency, commonsense, morality, ethics, advocates for the mutilation of babies in the womb and sexual perversion that seeks to destroy the Biblical family unit...the foundation for any healthy and successful society. Know your enemy!  These godless, unethical, immoral, people are mentally, spiritually, ill, historically ignorant and a cancer eating away at American society.

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable
If we take a look at the Overton window, you will notice a shift in both the GOP and the DNC, with the GOP shifting to the right and the DNC shifting to the left, so anyone who says: "look how far <direction> the other party has shifted!" is being rather disingenuous because what they fail to realize is that they themselves have shifted the other direction as well.

https://www.people-press.org/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/

The abortion debate is dumb, it is a matter of technological development. IDGAF if people are trying to put time limits on abortion, outlaw it altogether, or make it mandatory for unwed mothers, these are all positions to have. The abortion debate will die as soon as people start taking technological development seriously.

I don't subscribe to the "pro-life" (pro-subjugation) or "pro-choice"(pro-elimination) because I see both of these positions as morally corrupt and to be "damage control" so to speak, that is to say if an abortion is an option on the table you already f***ed up so you can throw doing the right thing out the window. I subscribe to a super-secret third option that sadly, never gets discussed, which I have dubbed "pro-freedom" and can be summarized to say that sex should be decoupled from pregnancy through the use of technology so that no one gets pregnant unless they willingly choose to do so.

Consider, if you are a man and you don't want to get someone pregnant, you only have 3 real options available:

• Abstinence (lets be honest, this doesn't count)
• Condoms (they suck and aren't that effective)
• vasectomy (requires surgery, small chance it doesn't work)

For women however, there are tons of contraceptive drugs that are more effective as well as surgery.

Why haven't any male-equivalent contraceptives been developed? The short answer is that drug companies don't want to take the risk and develop them because of the difficulties involved and they fear that pregnancy is seen as a women's issue, despite the fact that anyone who got higher than a D- in middle school sex-ed knows that to be complete .

If such drugs were developed and widely accepted, then the number of unwanted pregnancies would go down so drastically that there would no longer be any need for legislation on abortion.

This is a lot of words, here is a infographic.

We_are_accountable

All I got from your reply was you lacking the character to admit your deception about Joe Biden and saying that both Parties were about the same in regards to abortion. Now you go on to another discertation on the next set of deceptive abortion rhetoric.

You call the abortion debate dumb! I suppose to Democrats back during the time of slavery, that anti slavery vocies were dumb as well. There is such a thing as humanity, and those on the Left have lost it! I want you to witness a late term baby being dismembered, and then get back to me on what you support with your vote. It's not dumb to speak out!

Now do what most choicers do, and bring up extreme case abortions that no one is disputing.

Why not try discussing why the Democrat Party supports killing viable babies for any reason and at any stage. Why is it they refuse to support any unborn life?
You are every bit as extreme as they have become.@Happy_Killbot

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable I am not a pro-choicer, or a pro-lifer!

Here is the secret: you can't abort a baby that is never conceived.

That's the solution to abortion, and why the debate is dumb. We can solve the problem through technology.

For the record, I can't find anywhere on Joe Biden's site where it says he no longer supports the Hyde amendment.
https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/

As you totally missed, it is irrelevant anyways, because if I had my way, there would be so few unwanted pregnancies that abortion rights might as well as be determined through a coin flip, which is effectively what we are doing right now.

Pro-freedom > pro-choice, Pro-freedom > pro-life.

Besides that, "a person" is an arbitrary definition, both movements are based on that definition, which is why both sides of the debate are .

One more thing not related to abortion, but because you brought it up technology is what freed the slaves, not law. Specifically it was agricultural and manufacturing technology that made it so that fewer people were needed to do the same amount of labor. In fact, if you adjust for inflation a modern tractor is less expensive than a single slave.

Technology is the answer to abortion, abandon all else.

CYDdharta

Happy_Killbot said:

It's not the Democratic party, just some of the candidates. Joe Biden for example, supports this policy. I hate it when people overgeneralize without doing their research first, because it just spreads misinformation and further supports divisions along party lines.

Really?!?  It's just some of the candidates?!?  If such a measure was put forward in the House or Senate, how would the rest of the Dem party members vote?

We_are_accountable

It took me all of 5 seconds to find many sites speaking to Biden's flip flop. Who do you think you are kidding?
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/06/joe-biden-flip-flop-hyde-amendment-abortion-debate/

Science has already proven that a human life begins at conception and until your pipe dream of no more unwated pregnancies, try voting on the side of humanity and save those viable lives from being dismembered.@Happy_Killbot

smoothie

We_are_accountable said:

, try voting on the side of humanity

There is no "side of humanity"

I'm suprised you have made it this far with the huge glasses of bias and division you attempt to serve in your arguments.

Can you make an argument without resorting to propaganda/generalizations/and policing of ones political views?

We_are_accountable

So tell me, does the killing of Jews in Germany rise to a level of inhumanity for you? Were the people who understood this inhumanity acting in a biased and divisive way?

Guess what, killing viable babies for mere convenience is a matter of humanity!
If you can not agree with that simple premise, then you are an example of what has become of the Democrat Party.@smoothie

YeshuaBought

Happy_Killbot said:

YeshuaBought said:

Happy_Killbot said:

@YeshuaBought So... what if someone doesn't care for the police, military, firefighters, congress, CIA, FBI, NSA, or any of the thousands of other policies enacted by elected officials?

Should they just not pay taxes then?

This is not liberal thinking, all except the most extreme anarchists understand the value of taxation.

I will discuss the Hye Amendment, and nothing else. You are off topic, and I don't have to answer your question.

I don't think you can answer my questions anyways.

If publicly elected officials use their power to remove the Hyde Amendment, why should we not pay for it through taxes, just because some people don't feel like they should have to?

I don't have to answer the question, but I will discuss the Hyde Amendment. I have the right, to not pay for something, i don't believe in. if someone accepts my money, they need to abude by my beliefs. If they have a problem with that, they don't have the right, to my money.

YeshuaBought

We_are_accountable said:

I hate it when you are the one being deceptive and denying how extreme the Democrat Party has become. Either you missed the Democrat debates, or you are very deceptive. Yes, Joe Biden used to support the Hyde Amendment but was shamed by all the other Democrats to flip flop. He is now in favor of eliminating the Hyde amendment!

There is a huge difference between the Democrat Party and the GOP when it comes to abortion. This is why Feminists scream every single election how the GOP will end Roe V Wade if elected.

Maybe you missed it where Trump stopped forcing tax payers to fund Planned Parenthood. He gave PP a choice that they could keep funding if they stoppped their abortion trade. He told them they could keep funding for helping women with their healthcare needs, birth control, etc., but not abortions. THEY REFUSED to stop their money making abortion trade.

Republicans tried to pass a 20 week limit on abortions (still allowing extreme cases), but the Bill did not pass thanks to an almot unanimous Democrat vote against the Bill.

Trump stopped funding for abortions in other nations. He has been the greatest pro life President we have ever had and for you to say there is no difference between Parties on this issue, is total deception! @Happy_Killbot

In agree. The far left, is out of control.

smoothie

I didn't think you could make such an argument. Your arguments are confirmed propaganda/generalizations/and policing political views then? I don't recommend a debate site for such arguments, maybe a vent echo chamber forum with people who share your views?

Thanks for clearing that up @We_are_accountable