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Why Pro-Choice or Abortion is morally ok and legal
in Politics

I'm not sure why this is a hot topic but I'm willing to be open minded



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  • There are numerous problems with both of the major stance on abortion, pro-choice and pro-life respectably, and frankly, neither of them is morally right and come with some major problems.

    Pro-Choice is not moral because a potential innocent life has to be killed.

    Pro-Life is not moral because it violates the rights of the mother to do what she wants with her body.

    However there is a secret third option that sadly is never present in these debates, which I have dubbed pro-freedom.

    Consider the desires of these two sides and the point of contention, which is what to do with the mother and the unwanted child. If this child was never conceived, then it would not be a problem. Thus it stands to reason that the solution to abortion is to minimize or eliminate the number of unwanted pregnancies. This can be accomplished through the development of contraceptive technologies, in particular a male-equivalent birth control.

    At the moment, there are effectively 3 options for men who don't want to get a woman pregnant: Condoms, Vasectomy and Abstinence.

    There are hundreds of thousands of unwanted pregnancies in the US each year, and if we could add an extra layer of protection this number would drop substantially to just a few thousands, effectively eliminating the problem through irrelevancy. This technology would either take the form of a gel that would be applied to the shoulders every morning, or as an implant that kills or prevents sperm formation. 


    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Why Pro-choice or Abortion is morally ok and legal.

    The supreme court ruling never found abortion to be legal. The court made the ruling the laws which governed abortion had been illegal as it did not protect the woman’s Medical privacy. In the 47 years since the court ruling there has been no address made by woman in general to ensure all woman are created equal by establishing the privacy lost by abortion.

    Why abortion is legal is why abortion is not okay. Abortion is a self-incrimination and people are allowed to admit wrong doing it is this self-incrimination which abortion creates that is the cause of any loss to privacy.

    Pro-choice and Pro-life both of these statements go on to strengthen the prejudice created by woman against woman by sticking to the idea of abortion an official stop made on what is by right not only birth but immigration into a nation.

    Roe Vs Wade, McCorvey Vs Wade (1973)

    the court held that a set of Texas statutes criminalizing abortion in most instances violated a woman’s constitutional right of privacy, which it found to be implicit in the liberty guarantee of the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment (“…nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”).

    https://www.britannica.com/event/Roe-v-Wade

  • @reubunny123 ; There is NOTHING morally OK about murdering babies in the womb. Anyone who suggests that the mutilation of babies in the protective confines of a mommies womb is either insane, demonic or absent any sense of morality-wisdom-judgment-ethics. Life begins at conception and every life if given by God for a unique and specific purpose...the one who advocates murdering this unique life will face a most horrific Judgment in Eternity in Hell and rightly so.

    Life begins at Conception: HHS

    In fact, science now confirms that "life" begins at conception: https://www.liveaction.org/news/new-hhs-strategic-plan-protects-american-lives-beginning-conception/

    Life begins at Fertilization

    http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/25/science-life-begins-makes-pro-choicers-look-terrible/

    Pediatricians agree: Life begins at conception:

    https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/life-issues/when-human-life-begins

    Princeton agrees, life begins at conception: https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

    US Government Now Says: Life begins at conception

    https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/yw397w/government-hhs-now-says-life-begins-at-conception

    Life Begins a Fertilization, video

    https://twitter.com/LiveAction/status/1068861776329093121




  • @RickeyD ;
    Life begins at ovulation and that life is only extended by the fertilization process. There is also nothing morally okay with the establishing of prejudice between woman. Tell me how do you advocate the suspected murder of babies while a woman waits for suiter in marriage?

    Do you have a objection to female specific amputation or not?
  • @John_C_87 ; What is the insanity of this "female specific amputation" nonsense? Are you OK, mentally? Both our Creator and science confirm that life begins at conception; therefore, Roe is unconstitutional and abortion is murder because abortion violates the right to life, due process, guaranteed by the 5th and 14th Amendments to the US Constitution. Personhood IS validated for the preborn child since life begins at conception...information Blackburn and the PC-demons on SCOTUS in 1973 did not know. You advocate for the murder of babies...you are evil. There is NO bodily autonomy when a woman becomes pregnant...there are two-distinct lives in play and the mother has NO RIGHT to murder the life in her womb, neither do YOU! This is EVIL and unconscionable and without excuse.


  • Do you, or do you not object to female specific amputation?

    I am not a Bible, I am not a book of literature, I'm just a person asking a constitutional question that can create all woman equal by their creator. Can a woman receive a female specific amputation or not? The legal precedent is privacy and it is the united state of legislate Texas law that was found unconstitutional in  (1973) McCorvey Vs Wade. It has nothing to do with the self-incrimination all woman by prejudice are told to make.

    life begins at ovulation and is only extended by the process of a fertilization taking place. When does life start? It always starts as a united state in the begging of the process in question What came first the fertilized chicken egg or the chicken egg? What cam first the human baby egg or the fertile human baby egg? Ask a doctor, ask a religious advocate, ask legal counsel, ask everyone and every one you want. You are acting with prejudice by use of intellectual deception. You can only be smarter then me it does not give you special powers to change a beginning to the process of human life.

    Beginning, start.
    Beginning, start.
    Start, end.
    Start, end.

    The Bible starts at the cover not with the first page that states God. Are you saying no woman has right to murder inside her womb? This is not the same as my statement of a woman's constitutional right directing lethal force. All females who are fertile use lethal force in an offset of puberty and adulthood to measure a period of time as to be fit, sound, and of judgment to establish a citizenship of these United states, if to be only these United States. Are you making the same argument expecting a different outcome each time over and over, or am I? Do you even understand the principle of insanity?
  • @John_C_87 ; Female specific amputation? Is that analogous to a "clump of cells?"  No mommy possesses the right to murder the life in her womb!  I understand the "principle of insanity." You are an excellent definition in your portrayal and advocacy concerning the murder of babies. Life begins at conception in the ovum and to destroy that life with intent is MURDER. Please try to communicate comprehensibly... Please?


  • Female specific amputation is a medical procedure which displays a level of female privacy why do you ask? Can't a woman have a female specific amputation ? I see no connection to any murder described by pre-existing laws. (1976) McCorvey Vs Wade ruled against legislated laws of Texas as being used unconstitutional.

    I am an advocate of murdering babies only if you believe that all woman murder babies when allowing mensuration to take place after ovulation occurs. Is that what you think a woman can not use lethal force to allow menstruations, once she ovulates she must fertilize the egg, lethal force is not allowed to be used to let the egg die ? There are two places an admitted murder described as pregnancy abortion can take place without female prejudice not one place like is stated here, after fertilizations is only half of the complete condition. Before fertilization and after fertilization explains without prejudice, it is only after fertilization takes place is prejudice use by self-incrimination. Which was the focus of the Supreme Courts ruling, ignored. I will not go into provocation as to why the ruling was ignored.

    I will ask you again to support the idea life begins at fertilization.  Which comes first the female fertilized egg, or the unfertilized female egg, we want to identify, find, pin point where a beginning is located without prejudice, do you understand what is meant by without prejudice ? 

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/where

    I do not support pregnancy abortion it is a two headed coin, admission and accusation to the same purpose lethal force. It has been exposed as such since 1976 by Supreme Court ruling. You are welcome to show all the pictures you like of babies that die when woman who allow menstruations to take place as murder. I can see why such a large level of denial would take place, it is a very complex and hard position to be placed in under all conditions. I am also very sorry, the ovum is a location where life is saved not where life begins, this is a very small lie but very effective lie. It still is not correct.
  • @John_C_87 ; If female amputation involves the murder of a child, NO...she is not to murder her baby.

    Excerpt: It is clear that from the time of cell fusion, the embryo consists of elements (from both maternal and paternal origin) which function interdependently in a coordinated manner to carry on the function of the development of the human organism.  From this definition, the single-celled embryo is not just a cell, but an organism, a living being, a human being. The American College of Pediatricians concurs with the body of scientific evidence that corroborates that a unique human life starts when the sperm and egg bind to each other in a process of fusion of their respective membranes and a single hybrid cell called a zygote, or one-cell embryo, is created.Article...
    As physicians dedicated both to scientific truth and to the Hippocratic tradition, the College values all human lives equally from the moment of conception (fertilization) until natural death. Consistent with its mission to “enable all children to reach their optimal physical and emotional health and well-being,” the College, therefore, opposes active measures23 that would prematurely end the life of any child at any stage of development from conception to natural death.

    It has been recognized for millennia that both a paternal (semen) and a maternal contribution are required for the formation of a new human life.  The first recorded embryological reports are in the fifth century B.C. books of Hippocrates, who noted from the study of incubating chicken eggs that the nature of the bird can be likened to that of the man. A century later, Aristotle studied the chick and other embryos but incorrectly thought that they arose from a formless mass of semen combined with menstrual blood.  In 1677, Hamm and Leeuwenhoek observed spermatozoa under the microscope, but thought they contained miniature humans. Spallanzani demonstrated in 1775 that both oocyte and sperm were necessary.  In 1827, von Baer observed oocytes in the ovarian follicle and in the Fallopian tube and blastocysts in the uterus of a dog.1

    Finally, it was with the advent of the cell theory developed by Schleiden and Schwann in 1839 that it was recognized that the embryo develops from the single-celled zygote.1 Directly based upon this observation and the knowledge that the single-celled zygote was alive and an independent being, in 1859 the American Medical Association published a statement strongly opposing abortion, particularly commenting on the independence of the zygote during the time between its formation and its implantation.2,3

    Although the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology in 1965 attempted to redefine “conception” to mean implantation rather than fertilization,4 medical dictionaries and even English language dictionaries both before and after 1966 5,6 define “conception” as synonymous with fertilization (sometimes via the intermediary term of “fecundation”).7,8,9 Moore’s 1974 edition of a human embryology textbook states that development is a continuous process that begins when an ovum is fertilized by a sperm and ends at death.  It is a process of change and growth that transforms the zygote, a single cell, into a multicellular adult human being.10 Moore’s 2008 edition emphasizes that development does not end at birth but extends into early adulthood.1 Professor Emeritus of Human Embryology of the University of Arizona School of Medicine, Dr. C. Ward Kischer, affirms that “Every human embryologist, worldwide, states that the life of the new individual human being begins at fertilization (conception).”11  Even authors who philosophically lean towards not attributing the same value to human life at the one-cell stage as they do to later stages of development admit that “As far as human ‘life’ per se, it is, for the most part, uncontroversial among the scientific and philosophical community that life begins at the moment when the genetic information contained in the sperm and ovum combine to form a genetically unique cell.”12 J.T. Eberl goes on to say – and this is really the debate:

    “However, what is controversial is whether this genetically unique cell should be considered a human person.”

    Nonetheless, one could sensibly make the case that “personhood” can only exist in a living human being and that the division of these two entities is arbitrary at best.

    In the last century, and particularly in the last decades, much more detailed observation has been made of the first 24 hours of the life of a human being.  During this time the cell membranes of a sperm and ovum fuse and the first cell division occurs.  When during this 24 hours does, a new human life begin? Embryologists are less united on this question.  This Statement aims to clarify this issue.

    During the first 24 hours, once the sperm and egg bind to each other, the membranes of these two cells fuse, creating in less than a second a single hybrid cell: the zygote, or one-cell embryo.13,14 To protect his or her bodily integrity, within minutes the zygote initiates changes in its ionic composition, releasing zinc in a spark that induces “egg activation,” first modifying the surrounding zona pellucida blocking further sperm binding to the cell surface.15,16,17 Cooperation between sperm and egg components to achieve replication of DNA, cell division, and growth occurs as maternally and paternally derived factors in the zygote begin interacting with and chemically modifying each other to initiate the final round of meiotic division in the maternally derived nucleus 15,16 to enable DNA replication.

    Finally, the nuclear membranes of the pronuclei break down (called syngamy—technically, pronuclear membranes). No new nuclear membrane encompassing both pronuclei is formed; rather, mitosis occurs and two cells, each with its own identical nucleus encased in a nuclear membrane, are formed.18

    Furthermore, studies with mice embryos demonstrate that despite the plasticity of which allows disrupted blastomeres to form an entire organism, ordinarily the polarity of the embryo is determined by the site of sperm penetration.19,20 (Evidence from other mammalian species suggests that the same may be true in humans, but does not offer definitive proof).

    Some embryologists consider fertilization a day-long process and regard the beginning of human life as occurring near the end of this process at syngamy,1,18,21 whereas others consider the time of cell membrane fusion when the embryo gives evidence of being a different kind of cell than either oocyte or sperm, to be the beginning of a new human life, since within minutes the new embryo acts to prevent the merger of another sperm with itself and starts the business of self-replication.  The single-celled embryo is a very different kind of cell than that of sperm or oocyte, and contains a unique genome that will determine most future bodily features and functions of his or her lifetime.

    An organism is defined as “(1) a complex structure of interdependent and subordinate elements whose relations and properties are largely determined by their function in the whole, and (2) an individual constituted to carry on the activities of life by means of organs separate in function but mutually dependent: a living being.” 22

    It is clear that from the time of cell fusion, the embryo consists of elements (from both maternal and paternal origin) which function interdependently in a coordinated manner to carry on the function of the development of the human organism.  From this definition, the single-celled embryo is not just a cell, but an organism, a living being, a human being.

    The American College of Pediatricians concurs with the body of scientific evidence that corroborates that a unique human life starts when the sperm and egg bind to each other in a process of fusion of their respective membranes and a single hybrid cell called a zygote, or one-cell embryo, is created.

    As physicians dedicated both to scientific truth and to the Hippocratic tradition, the College values all human lives equally from the moment of conception (fertilization) until natural death. Consistent with its mission to “enable all children to reach their optimal physical and emotional health and well-being,” the College, therefore, opposes active measures23 that would prematurely end the life of any child at any stage of development from conception to natural death.

    Original author:  Fred de Miranda, MD, March 2004
    Updated: Dr. Patricia Lee June, MD, March 2017

    The American College of Pediatricians is a national medical association of licensed physicians and healthcare professionals who specialize in the care of infants, children, and adolescents. The mission of the College is to enable all children to reach their optimal physical and emotional health and well-being.

    A PDF of this statement is available at this link, “When Human Life Begins.”

    References

    1. Moore KL, Persaud TVN. The Developing Human, 7th ed. Philadelphia: Saunders-Elsevier, 2003; 31; Carlson BM, Human Embryology and Developmental Biology, 3rd ed. Philadelphia: Mosby-Elsevier, 2004; 2, 8-10, 31.

    2. Report on Criminal Abortion, JAMA, Vol XII-6, 1859.  Three causes for abortion were listed: first “a widespread popular ignorance of the true character of the crime – a belief, even among mothers themselves, that the fetus is not alive until after the period of quickening.”  “Abundant proof upon each of these points has been prepared by the committee, and is elsewhere* being published”; and concluded “In accordance, therefore with the facts in the case…publicly express its abhorrence of the unnatural …crime of abortion; that it avow its true nature, as … the wanton and murderous destruction of her child” and called for revision of current laws.  The AMA unanimously approved this resolution.

    3. North American Medico-Chirurgical Review, Jan. 1859, et seq.  “If the foetus be a lifeless excretion, however soon it might have received life, the offence is comparatively as nothing; if the foetus be already, and from the very outset, a human being, alive, however early its stage of development, and existing independently of its mother, though drawing its sustenance from her, the offence becomes, in every stage of pregnancy, MURDER. …..the ovum does not originate in the uterus; that for a time, however slight, during its passage through the Fallopian tube, its connection with the mother is wholly broken; that its subsequent history is one merely of development, its attachment merely for nutrition and shelter, it is not rational to suppose that its total independence, thus one established, becomes again merged into total identity…or that life…dates from any other epoch than conception” p. 69-70.

    4. ACOG Terminology Bulletin. Terms used in reference to the fetus. Chicago. ACOG  No. 1. Sept 1965.  If ACOG ever published a rationale for this change, the American College of Pediatricians has been unable to find it.  However, two physicians associated with Planned Parenthood shed some light upon a probable rationale. At the 1959 Planned Parenthood/Population Council symposium, Dr. Bent Boving argued for changing the definition by moving the date of conception from when fertilization occurs to when implantation occurs. He said that “the social advantage of [birth control] being considered to prevent conception rather than to destroy an established pregnancy could depend upon something so simple as a prudent habit of speech.”1    Bent Boving, “Implantation Mechanisms,” in Mechanics Concerned with Conception, ed. C.G. Hartman (New York: Pergamon Press, 1963), p. 386. Accessed from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_pregnancy_controversy.

    In 1964, Dr. Christopher Tietze noted that that many religious and legal experts accept medical consensus as fact, and said that “if a medical consensus develops and is maintained that pregnancy, and therefore life, begins at implantation, eventually our brethren from the other faculties will listen.”2 Tietze would later win the Planned Parenthood Federation of America Margaret Sanger Award for outstanding contributions to the pro-abortion movement.  Proceedings of the Second International Conference, Intra-Uterine Contraception, October 2-3, 1964, New York, ed. Sheldon Segal, et al.., International Series, Excerpta Medica Foundation, No. 86, p. 212. Accessed from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_pregnancy_controversy.








  • @RickeyD ;

    If any female specific amputation involves lethal force? That lethal force would be no greater than the lethal force applied by any other woman who ovulates yet does not undertake effort to become pregnant. Prejudice can take place with no other condition as basic principle other then ovulation as it's creator. The image you display does not justify the discriminations taking place between all woman.

    Again, they are not answering a question to define a basic principle of start. Which comes first the fertile human egg or the unfertile human egg? This is not a question restricted by education and state licensing for medical practice. This is not a trial it is a preservation of United State Constitutional right dealing with extremes of prejudice.
  • TKDBTKDB 455 Pts
    I'm pro Adoption, when it comes to abortion.

    There are millions of couples across the United States, who go through the process of being able to Adopt a baby, or a toddler, or a school age child.

    I think that a fetus deserves the same rights, that a pregnant lady gets. 
    RickeyD
  • @RickeyD ;

    No, my question was not answered by science my question is the creation of science.

    In what order did the process of pregnancy start ? What begins the process of human? One choice is the living egg? The second choice is the fertilized egg ? There is a certainty that exists between all woman the a begging is where the living egg is created by its creator the woman. The battle to relieve woman of this weight is recognized by religions but prejudice to achieve the relief of that burden of command is not.

     Abortion is not an murder as it is a admission to a murder, that murder may, or may not take place. Since 1976 all woman and men alike have been warned of the unconstitutional nature of the word abortion for legislation purpose of law. Abortion precisely describes a fabricated murder looking for a nest and in doing so causes an invasion of privacy. The reasons of a prejudice have already been made clear, the idea of lethal force is always best when the remains of the target of force is hidden from others, also many cases not necessary to preserve one of any two or more human lives. The argument RichyD is about independence set on an immigration across a international boarder held by a female, and the threat to multiple life that passage creates. Not one life as you portray in your attempt to maintain an hurtful prejudice publicly. The pictures are very moving and tell a story equal but still no greater than any other tail of lethal force I have had to endure.

    Why do you support the mutilation of children in the womb?
    Because your Lord has you asking the wrong question.
    The fact remains all woman share in the burden of this form of lethal force and it is this that is reason enough to establish a liberty on the exposure of that suffrage.
  • TKDB said:
    I'm pro Adoption, when it comes to abortion.

    There are millions of couples across the United States, who go through the process of being able to Adopt a baby, or a toddler, or a school age child.

    I think that a fetus deserves the same rights, that a pregnant lady gets. 

    So, you think the life has no united state constitutional right to be held in united states. Let’s test that presumption.

    When selling any person for any reason the deed is still a slavery in basic, exposing the woman to an idea of death to bring life into a nation outside the bonds of civil union comes at risk to the creator. director of the deed. Meaning you must except the possibility to contributing to a new mothers death, if in birth she dies. Unlike a civil union where her choice of self-sacrifice on behalf of her creator offers a liberty as common defense, this important bond was never formed by you along this course, you TKDB will have no common defense to your own general welfare. Do you understand this United State constitutional right? As it will relate to many women and not one by the poor choice of topic, so help you god for as long as you do live?

    The weight of your own choice is. Do you agree that on my agreement with you if a woman dies during child birth of any child born to be placed up for adoption you will be charged criminally with her murder?



  • @John_C_87 ; The fertilized egg is life and that truism is confirmed by God and Science. You have no foundation other than willful ignorance of Truth or a decrepit and evil motive to support your advocacy for the murder of children in the womb. There is no Constitutional "right" to murder and Justice Blackburn and other SCOTUS justices were not privy to the cellular scientific discoveries that have manifest subsequent to 1973; therefore, for all intents and purposes, Roe is blatantly unconstitutional though it is has NEVER been a Constitutional "right" to murder and the taking of life void due process IS a violation of the 5th and 14th Amendment due process protections. Personhood naturally accompanies life! You are advocating for demonic evil.


  • Rickey those are some beautiful pictures making my mouth water over here
    DeePlaffelvohfenpiloteersmoothieHappy_Killbot
  • The fertilized egg is life and that truism is confirmed by God and Science.

    Science yes, GOD yes, true. Yet, both Science and GOD agree it is not where life starts the fertilized egg is the point where a woman has made only a first effort to save a started life.

    You are addressing many issues that are related, but then for the most part doubling back to address the same legal precedent. Roe Vs. Wade. The ruling described how (abortion) in written law is unconstitutional to doctor patient medical privacy. Period. The wrong is exposed by Court ruling.

     Understand cellular scientific knowledge does not matter as the writing of laws are what is called into question. All laws with the word abortion, not just Texas laws. This is regarding all woman creating a citizen of a nation and not about powers to voce a claim of murder without trial. We are not connected to the issue which was creating an illegal act.


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