Can Something Come From Nothing?

JesusisGod777888

What is nothing that anything could result from it?

Jesus is God and no creationists aren't grasping at straws. Jesus Christ is God. Have proof .

And evolution is fallacy because of initial invariability. 

Romans 10:9

Normal_1

"What is nothing that anything could result from it?
Jesus is God and no creationists aren't grasping at straws. Jesus Christ is God. Have proof .
And evolution is fallacy because of initial invariability. 
Romans 10:9"
@JesusisGod777888

I'm sure that in your own mind what you say here makes some sort of sense however preaching your beliefs and making a completely disjointed statement hardly make the cut in the sanity stakes.

Happy_Killbot

@Normal_1 This is an argument that comes from observations of the universe, in particular the fact that the universe is expanding and the cosmic microwave background.

This implies, that at one point the universe and all the space and all matter and energy were all concentrated at one point in the distant past. This seems to imply, that there is a point at which the universe physically doesn't exist, and this "nothing" somehow turned into the universe.

The theistic argument simply put is that everything has to have a cause, (something can not come from nothing) so therefore the universe had to have a cause, and that cause is god. I'm skipping some crucial steps here, but that is the gist of it.

MayCaesar

"Nothing" is a poorly defined term in this context. What exactly does "nothing" mean? In the context of spacetime, we usually by "nothing" mean empty space - however, that empty space itself is something. "Nothing" would be emptiness of a much stronger degree, the lack of pretty much any structure, any possible categorisation, etc., and our minds are unable to process such a thing; we always think in terms of entities, and an entity that represents lack of all entities is beyond the scope of our thinking.

"Something cannot come from nothing" implies that we know what "nothing" is, but we apparently do not. It is quite possible that this statement is false, but it also can be true, and we are not able to prove it one way or another.

For that matter, statements like "X can never happen" fundamentally are not disprovable: we would need to observe the Universe for an infinite amount of time to be able to conclude that this is the case.

Normal_1

"Nothing" is a poorly defined term in this context.@MayCaesar

Regardless of the context "nothing" means "not a thing" and cannot be construed to mean anything else even through juggling the semantics.

Normal_1

The theistic argument simply put is that everything has to have a cause, (something can not come from nothing) so therefore the universe had to have a cause, and that cause is god. I'm skipping some crucial steps here, but that is the gist of it.@Happy_Killbot

Yeah, I think that pretty well nails it on the head.

The problem with the theistic inference that something must come from something is that, by the same token, the second something would have to come from something....etc. and so down the line infinitely.
I think that what theists are trying to say that because (and only by assumption) that second something is God the buck stops there since God is somehow infinite and has "always" been around.

RickeyD

The Scriptures, the Holy Spirit, do NOT say that matter forming our Universe descending down to the complex human genome was created ex nihilo (out of nothing). The Holy Spirit explains that as a result of a rebellion, an attempted coup de taut, manifesting in the Spiritual Realm being so destructive that the scenario mandated removal from the Kingdom to prevent further destruction; therefore, God the Father commissioned God the Son, Jesus Christ-Yeshua, to take elements from the Spiritual World and fashion those elements into matter that can be apprehended by life constrained by Time and physics.

"The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand."  John 3:35 (NASB)

"By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible."  Hebrews 11:3 (NASB)

Speaking of Jesus as Creator, the Holy Spirit says...

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.  Colossians 1:15-20 (NASB)

The Holy Spirit explains Jesus as Creator in the Gospels as well...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." John 1:1-5 (NASB)

"14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him."  John 1:14-18 (NASB)

The Holy Spirit tells us that God's Plan to defeat Lucifer/Satan via the Gospel of Jesus Christ was ordained and put into motion "before the beginning of Time."

"Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,"  2 Timothy 1:8-10 (NKJV)

Reasoning for Creation...

The entire purpose, causation, reasoning, for the creation of Time, matter, the Universe, Earth, mankind, was to deal specifically with Lucifer's rebellion in the Kingdom of God and the angels that followed Lucifer in that rebellion. The Holy Spirit tells us that the Son of God appeared in Time to defeat the works of Lucifer...

"The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."  1 John 3:8b (NASB)

If not for the rebellion of Lucifer, God's chief cherub angel, Time, mankind, the Universe would have never been created. God the Father is currently demonstrating to the faithful angles in the Kingdom why sin is so destructive and why Lucifer, the rebellious angels were extricated from the Kingdom and why they must be confined in Hell forever. God the Father has infused free will in both His angelic and human creation...free will is essential for relationship and love with the Father to exist in purity and authenticity. God the Father, desiring to maintain volitional love with the faithful angels remaining in the Kingdom, is demonstrating why Lucifer/Satan must be punished. Subsequent to thousands-of-years (Earth time) and observing the horrors of Lucifer's deception upon the Earth, at the end of Messiah's Millennial Kingdom at the time of the Judgment of the Condemned (Revelation 20:11-15), the faithful angles in the Kingdom will wholeheartedly agree with God the Father that Satan and the fallen angels do deserve punishment in Hell forever (Revelation 20:10).

Jesus said that He personally observed the extrication of Lucifer/Satan from the Kingdom...

Jesus said to them, "I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning."  Luke 10:18

There is an unfathomable struggle, a cosmic war, being played-out before our eyes, partially in the Spiritual Realm and partially in the Realm of Time...Jesus told us that His Kingdom is NOT from the Realm of Time...

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."  John 18:36 (NASB)

If one knows the indwelling Holy Spirit, they can observe the struggle between Jesus-Israel-Christianity v. Allah-Islam as this struggle will continue to manifest in the approaching Apocalypse, a nuclear war that will be initiated by Allah and his allies, Russia-China-Iran-Arab Coalition who will attack Jerusalem, Israel. This will initiate the Millennial Kingdom of Yeshua-Jesus. Unbeknownst to most, Allah of Islam is actually Satan manifest in Time through the Arabic moon god; Allah finds legitimacy in Time and worship and praise by touting Islam's relationship with Abraham via Abraham's adulterous affair with Hagar which gave birth to Ishmael, the father of the Ishmaelites, the forefathers of the Arabic tribes, the forefathers of Muhammad, the founder of Islam.

In closing...

The Scriptures do not teach creation ex nihilo but that our creation finds its origin in the Spiritual World and this is why God the Holy Spirit has said that mankind, cognitively constrained by Time-physics and our sin-nature/the Curse, will never define origin.

"He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end."  Ecclesiastes 3:11 (NASB)