I am Pro-Life Change my Mind...

We_are_accountable

@mannyfritz18

I can't try and change your mind, because being Pro Life is the only possible position for people of humanity. There can never be a more selfish act than ending an innocent life for mere convenience. No one is denying a woman life of mother abortions, so the pro abortion arguments from Democrats, always speaking about extreme cases, is ludicrous.

They support all abortions for any reason! That is how extreme the Democrat Party has become. Every Democrat Presidential nominee said they would try to end the Hyde Amendment (protecting tax payers from paying to kill babies).

ZeusAres42

Do you support the Death Penalty, Euthanasia, etc? Or are you actually really pro-life at all?

ZeusAres42

@mannyfritz18

It's not irrelevant. If you're pro-life you need to be consistent with that view right? Not just in regard to the abortion case. It is very much relevant indeed.

mannyfritz18

@ZeusAres42 What does the death penalty or Euthanasia have to do with abortion they are not related at all please try persuading me with something more relevant to the topic, but is the death penalty really the same as an abortion?

ZeusAres42

mannyfritz18 said:

@ZeusAres42 What does the death penalty or Euthanasia have to do with abortion they are not related at all please try persuading me with something more relevant to the topic, but is the death penalty really the same as an abortion?

@mannyfritz18 It's not irrelevant. If you're pro-life you need to be consistent with that view right? Not just in regard to the abortion case. It is very relevant indeed. Otherwise, you're not really pro-life are you? Firstly, answer these questions and then I will demonstrate where I am going with this, rather than jumping the gun and thinking I am talking off-topic.

mannyfritz18

@ZeusAres42 Okay I agree upon the Death Penalty a person who gets the death penalty to crimes of murder, or any deserving crime to receive the death penalty. 

ZeusAres42

Anyway, I am pro-choice in one sense only and that is that I chose not to chose either of these views. If your pro-choice the assumption is that it's your body and so it's your choice to do what you like with it. So is it the choice of suicidal terrorists to blow themselves up. If you're pro-life the assumption is that living organisms should not be taken away. But so are sperm alive, eggs, etc. What I often witness happening in the abortion debate with both of these views are an endless amount of rationalizations for their dichotomous viewpoints.

So you can be pro-choice such as choosing not to accept any of these two polarized views.

mannyfritz18

@ZeusAres42 You're right I am pro life in the sense of where there is a life that is taken away and in the sense of that someones life story is taken away from a mother choosing to abort an unborn child, but is still living. Can you go more in depth to where sperm, eggs ect. are living? 

ZeusAres42

mannyfritz18 said:

@ZeusAres42 You're right I am pro life in the sense of where there is a life that is taken away and in the sense of that someones life story is taken away from a mother choosing to abort an unborn child, but is still living. Can you go more in depth to where sperm, eggs ect. are living? 

@mannyfritz18 I didn't say anything about me being pro-life. And as for sperm and eggs being alive, I can't say exactly where they are alive. The fact is they are alive. In fact, they're not really going to be of much use if they're already dead are they?

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

"Do you support the Death Penalty, Euthanasia, etc? Or are you actually really pro-life at all?"

Are you here to bully people with your own spin on how you look at the pro Life conversation?



@ZeusAres42

Are trying to tell me, others how to think?

"@TKDB it really is quite simple. If you are against abortion because you support life then you cannot say that you support the death penalty as that is the very act of taking away a life also.  If you say you are pro life except in cases of the death penalty this is nothing more than a fallacy of special pleading. You're either pro Life which means support for all life or you're not."

Because an abortion, is no different from the Death Penalty, is it?

But here you are, trying to tell people, that their thinking is a fallacy, because they're not seeing things according to the words coming out of your own mouth right?

How does a fetus deserve to be aborted because two consensual adults were too lazy to use contraceptives, before being intimate?

Is an incarcerated prisoners life, more important than an unborn babies life is, ZeusAres42, because that question should be easy to answer right?

@ZeusAres42 ;
Rape is a fallacy, isn't it?
Sexual assault is a fallacy, isn't it?
Abortion is a fallacy, isn't it?

@ZeusAres42 ;
Are you pro incarcerated prisoner?

Are you pro Abortion?

Are you pro family, or are you pro criminal, and pro offender? 
(Because if you're pro criminal, and offender, then how can you be pro family at the same time?)


@ZeusAres42

Because if you're pro incarcerated prisoner, and pro criminal, and pro offender, while being pro Abortion at the same time, then the rhetoric that you've been shoveling in my direction, makes sense. 

ZeusAres42

mannyfritz18 said:

@ZeusAres42 Okay I agree upon the Death Penalty a person who gets the death penalty to crimes of murder, or any deserving crime to receive the death penalty. 

@mannyfritz18 Which then means you cannot justify being pro-life all the way. You cannot say that you are against abortion because you think it is it the taking away of life and then say you are for the death penalty as that too is the exact same thing as taking away a life and life story. The point I am trying to make is that this is a conflation of moral acceptance of abortion and the meaning of life.

mannyfritz18

@ZeusAres42 I was just asking a question but I guess I have to research it but yes sex cells are alive like body cells and I meant the fact upon how I am pro life and my reasoning behind it is that you're taking away a living thing and I don't see how killing infants are comparable to sperm or egg cells dying which often occurs when they come into contact with air or oxygen they begin to die and not survive in this environment and I wouldn't compare sperm to a living human being, 

mannyfritz18

@TKDB Exactly comparing an unborn child to a criminal who commits a crime worthy of the death penalty or sperm is not comparable to the murder of someone with no say to what's going on or no way to defend themselves....

ZeusAres42

mannyfritz18 said:

@ZeusAres42 I was just asking a question but I guess I have to research it but yes sex cells are alive like body cells and I meant the fact upon how I am pro life and my reasoning behind it is that you're taking away a living thing and I don't see how killing infants are comparable to sperm or egg cells dying which often occurs when they come into contact with air or oxygen they begin to die and not survive in this environment and I wouldn't compare sperm to a living human being, 

@mannyfritz18 This is a good point and now you're talking about viability. It is at this stage where things get more morally complex. However, I still can't call myself pro-life or I wouldn't be consistent. As it is in some cases abortion is valid and in other cases perhaps not. That's my take.

mannyfritz18

@ZeusAres42 thank you for your take and giving me look into the other side

ZeusAres42

mannyfritz18 said:

@TKDB Exactly comparing an unborn child to a criminal who commits a crime worthy of the death penalty or sperm is not comparable to the murder of someone with no say to what's going on or no way to defend themselves....

@mannyfritz18 I did no such thing. @TKDB has a habit of putting words into people's mouths, both theists as well as atheists. I understand this is early days for you but soon enough you will find this out for yourself.

As for you @mannyfritz18 I have enjoyed our discussion and think we have done so in an amicable way.

Plaffelvohfen

@mannyfritz18

Why would you consider changing your view? Pro-life, pro-choice, both are valid personal stances, nothing inherently wrong with either...

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

You have an Atheist avoidance issue, with refusing to answer some of the questions asked in your direction, don't you @ZeusAres42?

Because apparently, you like to be in charge of a debate, or a conversation don't you?

"@mannyfritz18 I did no such thing. @TKDB has a habit of putting words into people's mouths, both theists as well as atheists. I understand this is early days for you but soon enough you will find this out for yourself."

You still haven't answered the below questions, why is that?

"Do you support the Death Penalty, Euthanasia, etc? Or are you actually really pro-life at all?"

Are you here to bully people with your own spin on how you look at the pro Life conversation?


@ZeusAres42

Are trying to tell me, others how to think?

"@TKDB it really is quite simple. If you are against abortion because you support life then you cannot say that you support the death penalty as that is the very act of taking away a life also.  If you say you are pro life except in cases of the death penalty this is nothing more than a fallacy of special pleading. You're either pro Life which means support for all life or you're not."

Because an abortion, is no different from the Death Penalty, is it?

But here you are, trying to tell people, that their thinking is a fallacy, because they're not seeing things according to the words coming out of your own mouth right?

How does a fetus deserve to be aborted because two consensual adults were too lazy to use contraceptives, before being intimate?

Is an incarcerated prisoners life, more important than an unborn babies life is, ZeusAres42, because that question should be easy to answer right?

@ZeusAres42 ;
Rape is a fallacy, isn't it?
Sexual assault is a fallacy, isn't it?
Abortion is a fallacy, isn't it?

@ZeusAres42 ;
Are you pro incarcerated prisoner?

Are you pro Abortion?

Are you pro family, or are you pro criminal, and pro offender? 
(Because if you're pro criminal, and offender, then how can you be pro family at the same time?)


@ZeusAres42

Because if you're pro incarcerated prisoner, and pro criminal, and pro offender, while being pro Abortion at the same time, then the rhetoric that you've been shoveling in my direction, makes sense.  

ZeusAres42

@TKDB

If you think I said anything which was like bullying then please don't decide to actually get a job in either politics or science. If you cannot handle what I said, then you will literally fall apart in these professions where questions and criticisms to some may come across as brutal. But the difference between them and you is that they all welcome this. Well, perhaps more the scientists than the politician's haha. It's how we learn.

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

Here's what your overall response was to those very same questions that you refuse to answer still?

"Wow. You got all that just by me saying you cannot be pro-life and support the death penalty at the same time? Really? Wow!"

@ZeusAres42

So you can keep playing your Atheist avoidance game, with your other avoidance answer?

"If you think I said anything which was like bullying then please don't decide to actually get a job in either politics or science. If you cannot handle what I said, then you will literally fall apart in these professions where questions and criticisms to some may come across as brutal. But the difference between them and you is that they all welcome this. Well, perhaps more the scientists than the politician's haha. It's how we learn."

We_are_accountable

@ZeusAres42

To compare killing innocent babies for mere convenience with executing a mass murderer, makes you a total waste of time. We execute killers so they can never kill again, inside or outside of prison!

Get some new material, or stop wasting our time with such nonsense.

ZeusAres42

We_are_accountable said:

@ZeusAres42

To compare killing innocent babies for mere convenience with executing a mass murderer, makes you a total waste of time. We execute killers so they can never kill again, inside or outside of prison!

Get some new material, or stop wasting our time with such nonsense.

Wow. You got all that just from me saying that if you're pro-life you need to be consistent. Misrepresentation of what I just said doesn't help your position. In fact it just makes you look like a coward; I mean it's easy to refute things that were never said right? So of you go now with more of your strawman battle's lol.

ZeusAres42

We_are_accountable said:

@ZeusAres42

To compare killing innocent babies for mere convenience with executing a mass murderer, makes you a total waste of time. We execute killers so they can never kill again, inside or outside of prison!

Get some new material, or stop wasting our time with such nonsense.

Wow. You got all that just from me saying that if you're pro-life you need to be consistent. Misrepresentation of what I just said doesn't help your position. In fact it just makes you look like a coward; I mean it's easy to refute things that were never said right? So of you go now with more of your strawman battle's lol. 

ZeusAres42

We_are_accountable said:

@ZeusAres42

To compare killing innocent babies for mere convenience with executing a mass murderer, makes you a total waste of time. We execute killers so they can never kill again, inside or outside of prison!

Get some new material, or stop wasting our time with such nonsense.

Wow. You got all that just from me saying that if you're pro-life you need to be consistent. Misrepresentation of what I just said doesn't help your position. In fact it just makes you look like a coward; I mean it's easy to refute things that were never said right? So of you go now with more of your strawman battle's lol. 

MayCaesar

What is the alternative to being pro-life? Pro-death?

People should stop hiding behind pretty labels. Call your position what it is: anti-abortion.

ZeusAres42

MayCaesar said:

What is the alternative to being pro-life? Pro-death?

People should stop hiding behind pretty labels. Call your position what it is: anti-abortion.

@MayCaesar. You're absolutely right. It sounds better to to them to say they're prolife rather than to admit they're anti-abortion. And this is nothing short of pure rationalisation on their part. 

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

An abortion, is no different from the Death Penalty, is it?

So tell the forum, how does a fetus deserve to be aborted because two consensual adults were too lazy to use contraceptives, before being intimate?

Is an incarcerated prisoners life, more important than an unborn babies life is, ZeusAres42, because that question should be easy to answer right?

@ZeusAres42 ;
Rape is a fallacy, isn't it?
Sexual assault is a fallacy, isn't it?
Abortion is a fallacy, isn't it?

@ZeusAres42 ;
Are you pro incarcerated prisoner?

Are you pro Abortion?

Are you pro family, or are you pro criminal, and pro offender? 
(Because if you're pro criminal, and offender, then how can you be pro family at the same time?)


@ZeusAres42

Because if you're pro incarcerated prisoner, and pro criminal, and pro offender, while being pro Abortion at the same time, then the rhetoric that you've been shoveling in my direction, makes sense, doesn't it?

mannyfritz18

@Plaffelvohfen Im open minded and am willing to look into it and possibly change my view

mannyfritz18

@MayCaesar I guess I am anti abortion than

Plaffelvohfen

mannyfritz18 said:

@Plaffelvohfen Im open minded and am willing to look into it and possibly change my view

Sure, but why? Both position being valid, it's like vanilla v. chocolate... What one prefers doesn't really matter but for the one facing the dilemma right?

John_C_87

mannyfritz18 said:

I am open to new ideas and give me reasons to why you are pro choice and I will give you my reasons to why I am Pro-Life!

Funny how that works out, I have a new idea. all women are created equal by their creator without prejudice. Female-specific amputation is not an abortion and all women can have one without prejudice created by the loss of privacy. Take the choice to the next level simply just create women as equals.

mannyfritz18

@John_C_87 Since when did I begin to put prejudice against women with my statement my state was that I am pro-life i never personally put an attack on women with my statement saying I am pro life it's me stating what I believe and how I want to spark conversation not attack women I believe that abortion is not right and kills living things.... I don't see how I was putting prejudice against women by saying that I am pro-life that's totally irrelevant to the topic. 

TKDB

@mannyfritz18

I'm pro Life, pro Adoption, pro Child, pro Community, and pro Humanity.

Dee

I am Pro-Life Change my Mind

No you’re not you may claim to be but thats not the case ......You’re Speciesist..... 

Speciesism (/ˈspiːʃiːˌzɪzəm, -siːˌzɪz-/) or specism is a form of discrimination based on species membership.It involves treating members of one species as morally more important than members of other species even when their interests are equivalent.More precisely, speciesism is the failure to consider interests of equal strength to an equal extent because of the species of which the individuals have been classified as belonging to.


You cannot claim to be “pro life”  if animals are not part of the equation as hows that “pro-life”?

If the claim is made that you’re “pro -human” life I doubt that also as how can you claim such if abortion is criminalized? A women would be forced to give birth against her  will , you cannot be pro life if you want to condemn a woman to a life of misery and give birth against her will , how is this pro life?

ZeusAres42

@TKDB and manny  why don't you tell me and the forum what your position would be if  being forced to give birth leads to the death of the mother or would put her in a permanent vegetable state?

You see @Dee I can make extreme cases on the other side too. However, I wouldn't call these extreme cases. I would call them moral dilemmas and they do actually occur.

But it will be interesting to hear what these self-proclaimed pro-lifers have to say about these if they actually choose to do so that is.

We_are_accountable

@ZeusAres42

I repeat everything i said because I've heard your same ludicrous comparisons a thousand times from other pro abortion people.

You can't walk back what you said after being shown the lunacy of your position.

TKDB

I'm pro Life, pro Adoption, pro Child, pro Community, and pro Humanity.

@Dee

Are you pro Abortion and pro Criminal?

And if you are pro Abortion and pro Criminal, does that mean that you place an incarcerated murderers life, as being more important than the life of an innocent fetus?

@ZeusAres42 ;

Same question, Are you pro Abortion and pro Criminal?

And if you are pro Abortion and pro Criminal, does that mean that you place an incarcerated murderers life, as being more important than the life of an innocent fetus? 

Abortion is anti Life, anti Family, anti Child, anti Community, and anti Humanity.

Just as Murder, is anti Life, anti Child, anti Family, anti Community, and anti Humanity.


@Dee, and @ZeusAres42 ;

Thus I'm pro Life, pro Adoption, pro Child, pro Community, and pro Humanity.

SkepticalOne

mannyfritz18 said:

I am open to new ideas and give me reasons to why you are pro choice and I will give you my reasons to why I am Pro-Life!

Everyone should have the freedom to decide how and when to use their biology rather than be a slave to it. Pro-choice is an equality of opportunity issue for me.

TKDB

@Dee

All of Humanity is of the same species, aren't we?

So what does your shared definition have to do with a species aborting its own species?

"Speciesism (/ˈspiːʃiːˌzɪzəm, -siːˌzɪz-/) or specism is a form of discrimination based on species membership.
It involves treating members of one species as morally more important than members of other species even when their interests are equivalent.
More precisely, speciesism is the failure to consider interests of equal strength to an equal extent because of the species of which the individuals have been classified as belonging to. "

ZeusAres42

@We_are_accountable please tell me how someone states you need to be consistent with your prolife views also means they are saying that a murderer is the same thing as unborn fetus? 

TKDB

@Plaffelvohfen

Same questions to you:

Are you pro Abortion and pro Criminal?

And if you are pro Abortion and pro Criminal, does that mean that you place an incarcerated murderers life, as being more important than the life of an innocent fetus? 

Abortion is anti Life, anti Family, anti Child, anti Community, and anti Humanity.

Just as Murder, is anti Life, anti Child, anti Family, anti Community, and anti Humanity. 

ZeusAres42

@TKDB if abortion means saving the life of the mother or saving her from being brain dead what is your position now? 

mannyfritz18

@Dee Firstly I am pro-life on the stand of abortion because being pro life is opposing abortion or euthanasia. 

pro-life

/prōˈlīf/

adjective

adjective: pro-life; adjective: prolife

1. opposing abortion and euthanasia.
   "she is a pro-life activist"
   
   
2. Speciesism' is the idea that being human is a good enough reason for human animals to have greater moral rights than non-human animals. ... a prejudice or bias in favour of the interests of members of one's own species and against those of members of other species
   
   

Which by me having pro-life doesn't give off that human animals have other species it is to do with if it is not right to murder innocent babies that have no way to defend themselves or no say in this process. It is not the infants fault that the parents consentually had sex without or with a form of contraception knowing that there is a possibility of the them having a child and that they end up having a child and the infant does not deserve to be killed because of the stupidity of the parents.

Dee

@ZeusAres42

It’s an interesting topic I’m always amused at the “ pro life title” they give themselves to me it’s so flawed in many ways 

Dee

@TKDB

**** All of Humanity is of the same species, aren't we?
 
I’m having doubts about that when it throws up specimens like you and even starting to doubt the Evolutionary process as in your case it seems to be devolving 

*****So what does your shared definition have to do with a species aborting its own species?

Again your failure to comprehend simple points is staggering 

Dee

@TKDB

***** Are you pro Abortion and pro Criminal?

I’m for women having the right to choose you’re against women’s rights , why would I be pro criminal you fool?

****And if you are pro Abortion and pro Criminal,

Read above 

 *****does that mean that you place an incarcerated murderers life, as being more important than the life of an innocent fetus?

I place all life ahead of the unborn which is why criminals have rights and a fetus has zero and believe it or not that’s law even in the U S 

Dee

@TKDB

***** Are you pro Abortion and pro Criminal?

I’m for women having the right to choose you’re against women’s rights , why would I be pro criminal you fool?

****And if you are pro Abortion and pro Criminal,

Read above 

 *****does that mean that you place an incarcerated murderers life, as being more important than the life of an innocent fetus?

I place all life ahead of the unborn which is why criminals have rights and a fetus has zero and believe it or not that’s law even in the U S 

TKDB

@Dee

Are you refusing to debate me?

Because your below responses, are the very evidence to your refusal:

**** All of Humanity is of the same species, aren't we?
 
"I’m having doubts about that when it throws up specimens like you and even starting to doubt the Evolutionary process as in your case it seems to be devolving."

*****So what does your shared definition have to do with a species aborting its own species?

"Again your failure to comprehend simple points is staggering."

@Dee

Again: Are you pro Abortion and pro Criminal?

And if you are pro Abortion and pro Criminal, does that mean that you place an incarcerated murderers life, as being more important than the life of an innocent fetus? 

Abortion is anti Life, anti Family, anti Child, anti Community, and anti Humanity.

Just as Murder, is anti Life, anti Child, anti Family, anti Community, and anti Humanity.  

Dee

**** Firstly I am pro-life on the stand of abortion because being pro life is opposing abortion or euthanasia

Yes I know 

****Which by me having pro-life doesn't give off that human animals have other species it is to do with if it is not right to murder innocent babies that have no way to defend themselves or no say in this process. 

That did not in any way address what I claimed about you stating you’re pro - life. 

Why are you calling a fetus a baby? 

Why are you calling women who abort murderers? 

If they are as you claim murderers do you want your government to jail them for life if not why not? 

****It is not the infants fault that the parents consentually had sex without or with a form of contraception knowing that there is a possibility of the them having a child and that they end up having a child and the infant does not deserve to be killed because of the stupidity of the parents.
 

So now the fetus is an “infant” and getting pregnant is “stupidity” in these cases , do you honestly believe women abort for kicks or would you have a rough idea why? Did you ever research the topic as to the why’s or are you just parroting the usual intellectually lazy and convenient mantras regarding such?

ZeusAres42

@mannyfritz18 if abortion means saving the life of the mother what position are you now? What ever you decide here will lead to the demise of one. So can you really be pro-life here?