Im personally a capitalist but I am willing to have my mind changed. I would love both sides to tell me why their side is the best one. Both Capitalists and Communists. I would also like for the communists to explain what "real communism" is.
Maybe you could also recommend me some books?
Keep it civil guys
thanx in advance
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Communism is also easy to sell under the guise of taking property from the rich and giving it to the masses. Some people with a very negative outlook on humanity and pessimistic outlook on its future might like that idea.
Capitalism, on the other hand, is a system based on voluntary exchanges of goods and services. Person A wants to give something to person B in exchange of something else, and person B agrees, and the transaction occurs. What is there not to like here?
Capitalism, unfortunately, is a harder sell, as it does not promise people free stuff and, in fact, expects them to work hard for their success. As always, freedom fights an uphill battle against security.
For the books, I could recommend a ton, but anything from Milton Friedman is a great start. You could also read The Wealth of Nations by Smith, although some of the views expressed there are quite outdated.
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Consider that every time someone makes a purchase there are several kilobytes of information which must be processed, including price, quantity, item, and transaction location. For an individual much of this information is automatically handled, for example going to a given distributor is going to cut a significant portion of that information out, but for a system which centralizes the production and distribution, the processing requirement goes up exponentially. This would explain why small communes can be so efficient and work just fine, but states which embrace communism fail.
While this is not a strong argument for capitalism, and I definitely don't have one, but I think it is clear that capitalism beats communism economically.
Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
Through a long process of evolution this life developed into the human race.
Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .
All of that so we can argue about nothing.
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The Soviet Union and the like were not communist, and that's not a "no true Scotsman" argument. Not only do they not meet the definitions of communism, but they specifically did not think that they were communist themselves. The various communist parties (e.g. the Communist Party of the Soviet Union) specifically called themselves communists not because they thought they were practicing communists, but because communism was the goal they one day wanted to reach. The soviets were Marxists, a specific fairly common type of socialism with a bajillion different sub-varieties. One of the key concepts of this is that countries should progress from Capitalism to Socialism to Communism (there's a rationale for this but not worth getting into here). Due to Russia being a feudal backwater, the communist party's first steps were actually to try and make the country Capitalist with Lenin's New Economic Plan because in their ideology capitalism was a prerequisite of socialism which was in turn a prerequisite of communism.
Socialism is a system where the means of producing commodities are communally owned but people can still earn different amounts. Essentially imagine if wherever you go to work, you and all the other employees are also the shareholders of the business so you get to vote on things like how people's wages are set, who manages the company, etc like a worker co-operative type set-up.
I'm a communist although I don't expect to see it in my lifetime and would settle for socialism. The basis for my interest on socialism and communism is that I don't like inequality, I don't like people starving, i don't like people dying of diseases we could treat if we cared enough to give them the resources and a general disgust at the idea of allowing people to accumulate billions of pounds of wealth while other people starve and sleep homeless on the street. I'm also unhappy with Capitalism because by its nature capitalism is inherently coercive, the power is in the hands of the capitalist who owns the business and therefore the entire set-up is morally suspect. In addition the idea of people benefiting from the hard work of others simply because they are rich and can just invest money always strikes me an inequitable and relying to a large degree on people's luck about which station in life they are born into.
I would also say my salary's good and I earn more than most on average so I wouldn't benefit from socialism or communism directly if wealth/income was more evenly spread out.
To me Capitalism is a constant failure. It hasn't for a single moment anywhere on earth managed to achieve an equitable standard of living which doesn't impoverishing large chunks of society. Where and who those chunks are always vary, but in this day and age I think we can do better.
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Maybe there's history with Sweden that I'm not aware of, but what makes you consider them socialist? I know there were some policies that made it look like they could head in that direction like the movement of trade unions sitting on company boars, but in the end that really amounted to nothing and certainly not workers control and an end to Capitalism. I view them as social democrats, not democratic socialists.
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Unregulated (communist style) capitalism is JUST AS DANGEROUS as (communist style) socialism. Neither are good without democratic regulation to protect WE, the people!
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