Was Jesus a communist?

TKDB

@piloteer

"Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity."

So some individuals CREATED an idea, and infused their view of Christianity, by corrupting Christianity at their leisure, and CREATED an alternate version of Christianity, and called it Christian communism?

What a lazy bunch of human beings?

TKDB

@piloteer

Your shared link is an OPINION piece.
A speculative OPINION piece.

FEATURED

"OPINION: Jesus is a communist"

• Copy Editor Brooke Hill
 
• Mar 28, 2019

 

(OPINION)

"Jesus of Nazareth is a figure who is often emulated for his emphasis on kindness, mercy and love, but many of his disciples seem to miss a very large part of his teachings in their attempts to mimic his virtues."

 

(OPINION)

"Many of Jesus’ ideas would be considered controversial in the modern world, but his attitudes regarding economics would be especially radical, aligning less with the conservative views of many of his followers and more with the far-left views we now call communist."

(OPINION)

"However, the mainstream interpretations of Jesus’ philosophy seem to ignore or undermine his economic ideals, most often in the interest of preserving capitalism. American history has given us many examples of Biblical interpretations being used to excuse harmful institutions such as slavery and attempt to de-radicalize the image of popular figures such as Martin Luther King Jr. It is only responsible that we separate Jesus’ relationship with money from that of any churches who stand to profit financially from more capitalist interpretations of his words."

 

(OPINION)

"We can read stories about Jesus’ emphasis on communal practices, like sharing meals and labor and starting the tradition now referred to as “communion.” We can also see that he has a particular interest in the needs of people who his society would rather abandon such as women who had committed adultery and those with leprosy or physical disabilities."

"He tells his followers to forgive their debtors, that they should not store up treasures on earth and that they cannot serve both God and money. In Matthew 21, he becomes so enraged by people using a temple for economic exchange, he starts flipping tables."

"In Matthew 19, a rich man approaches him for instruction and Jesus tells him to give up all his possessions and give the money to the poor.

 

“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the Kingdom of God,” Jesus said in Matthew 19:24 NIV.

 

(OPINION)

This notion that a rich person would have to stop being rich in order to follow him is explicitly incompatible with capitalist thinking. Why make people choose between following him and pursuing wealth unless he dislikes the effects of wealth and hopes to counteract them in some way by encouraging an alternative lifestyle among his followers?

 

(OPINION)

Despite the context and direct nature of his statement, it seems to be interpreted quite differently by many wealthy and influential Christians who have yet to give up their possessions.

 

(OPINION)

Under capitalism, interpretations favored by rich people are given more of a platform. This has created the exact type of hierarchy among Jesus’ fans that he devoted so much time to warning against. His attempts to redistribute power are often downplayed, and this is interpreted instead as a story about how nobody is perfect.

 

(OPINION)

"SIUE is home to a large Christian population, including 20 Christian organizations, whose members I sincerely hope will avoid such a convenient dismissal of this issue. All of us at SIUE, Christian or otherwise, should question the motivations of our sources. Information is never presented without an agenda, and it is alarmingly common for information to be presented in deceitful ways."

 

(OPINION)

"An idea as simple as “love your neighbors” can be used to promote the exact opposite message. I hope that any readers seeking to understand Jesus’ words will think critically about their own ideologies as well and whether they align more closely with the whitewashed commercial version that grants wishes or the radical political figure portrayed in the Bible."

piloteer

@TKDB

We do not need several laptops like you mythologists would to artificially inflate your numbers. We only need one each, and will still outnumber you.

I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ME ONE SINGLE BIBLE VERSE THAT DEMONSTRATES jesus WAS NOT A COMMUNIST. EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD WILL AUTOMATICALLY SEE THESE BOLD LETTERS AND KNOW IF YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO PROVE ME WRONG. DO YOU ACCEPT THIS CHALLENGE??????

I ALSO CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ME ANY INTERPRETATIONS OF jesus's WORDS THAT ARE NOT OPINION PIECES. DO YOU ACCEPT THIS CHALLENGE????    

piloteer

@TKDB

You have been for using a derogatory word to describe a certain "bunch of human beings". Your derogatory rhetoric is unacceptable.

piloteer

@TKDB

You have been for accusing me of being a dictator and conspirator. Your derogatory rhetoric is unacceptable.   

TKDB

@piloteer

Your words not mine:

"The above statement is a sign of our strength in knowing that humanity refuses to align any longer with insignificant religions no more worthy than a grain of sand in a desert of nothingness."

"My dictatorship is our dictatorship."

"Look in awe at the amount of people who are now proudly atheist and have a need for a new religion that fits their new order."

"Humanity will triumph over petty emotions."

@piloteer, I didn't direct you to express the above did I?

You said it from your own accord, didn't you?

TKDB

@piloteer

This is the theme of the forum:

"Was Jesus a communist?"

While your individual rant, is very off topic, it would seem?

"We do not need several laptops like you mythologists would to artificially inflate your numbers. We only need one each, and will still outnumber you."

"I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ME ONE SINGLE BIBLE VERSE THAT DEMONSTRATES jesus WAS NOT A COMMUNIST. EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD WILL AUTOMATICALLY SEE THESE BOLD LETTERS AND KNOW IF YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO PROVE ME WRONG. DO YOU ACCEPT THIS CHALLENGE??????"

"I ALSO CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ME ANY INTERPRETATIONS OF jesus's WORDS THAT ARE NOT OPINION PIECES. DO YOU ACCEPT THIS CHALLENGE????"

@piloteer Who is this "We," or "Our," that you have alluded to?

TKDB

@piloteer

"Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity."

(Please, where is your name, mentioned in the below paragraph?)

So some individuals CREATED an idea, and infused their view of Christianity, by corrupting Christianity at their leisure, and CREATED an alternate version of Christianity, and called it Christian communism?

What a lazy bunch of human beings.


Explain this to me, how was the above directed at you "Specifically?"


"You have been for using a derogatory word to describe a certain "bunch of human beings".
Your derogatory rhetoric is unacceptable."

So please show me, where I said anything derogatory to you specifically?

MayCaesar

@TKDB

I could just as well say that Christianity is an idea resulting from corruption of Jesus' views by an alternative interpretation of his teachings - and that will actually be more plausible than your claim, as in this particular case Christian communists follow the Bible as the foundational book, which, by definition, makes them Christian. And they advocate for a communist political system, which makes them communist. Hence they are Christian communists.

piloteer

@TKDB

You have again not failed to make sure that you do not address the issue at hand here and only talk about my method of argumentation. I have never seen you actually address any of these issues directly, and only instead question our rights to say what we say. You have demonstrated that you have absolutely no understanding of biblical principles, or what jesus stood for. Question our rights all you'd like, but I question whether you are actually a christian and not just a political zealot who only appeals to christian doctrine as a means of tradition rather than an actual faith. jesus was a communist, and you will not be able to disprove what I'm saying because you do not even know anything about the bible. It is an uncontested argument.    

TKDB

@piloteer

I'm pro Freedom of Religion, pro Atheist, pro Family, pro Community, pro Peaceful Society, and pro Humanity.

I have again gone to Catholic churches, Baptist churches, non Denominational churches, and have witnessed Public prayer, in various places, for a while now.

For these reasons: To enjoy the peaceful family atmosphere, the community atmosphere, the music atmosphere, and to maybe see, when any non Religious individual, might show up, to make their presence known as well?

And what's odd, is during all of those harmless prayer situations, I've yet to see any Atheist, personally show up, with any Law Enforcement, to shut down any Religious building, that I happened to be inside of because the underaged were being placed in unsafe situations, because they were being indoctrinated by the Catholic church, the Baptist church, the non Denominational churches, or by a harmless prayer?

Can you, or maybe some of the others explain, why no Atheist has ever publicly showed up to protest any Religion in person, (being that they have, on the internet only protested Religion,) thus making an example of any Religion, to reinforce their individual pro Atheist narratives, opinions, or perceptions, and publicly shut down any Religious building, over the supposed anxiety over any of the underaged parishioners, who are being "INDOCTRINATED," by being inside of any Religious building, by the Priest, the Minister, the Pastor, or whoever the head Religious person inside of the Religious building is?

Or making a public example of those Religious parents, because they are exposing their kids to their Religious indoctrination practices, that they are exposing their kids to at home, or inside of those other Religious buildings?

I've LIVED the above real life experiences, while you make statements like the below here on the internet?


@piloteer

"You have demonstrated that you have absolutely no understanding of biblical principles, or what jesus stood for. Question our rights all you'd like, but I question whether you are actually a christian and not just a political zealot who only appeals to christian doctrine as a means of tradition rather than an actual faith."

Grafix

@piloteer - You wrote ...

@Grafix -  If you readily agree that karl marx did not create communism, why would you use his definition as some sort of objective definition of what the particular ideals of communism are?

For the reason that Communism adopted Marxism as its social construct.  Hw didn't choose it.  Communism's ideology imposes a Godless diktat, mandating atheism as the State religion.  You can only accept Marxism if you are an atheist, which translates to you can only accept Communism and Socialism if you are an atheist too, because Socialism is Marxism and Communism is Socialism.  Next you say ....

Maybe karl marx thought communism needed to be anti-religious, but the term communism was used long before your boy marx got a hold of it. Communism was used in a social manner before it became a political ideology. The root words that make up the word "communism" are derived from the French word "communisme", which is derived from the Latin word "communis", and the Latin prefix "isme". When those two Latin terms are fused, it can be interpreted as meaning "the state of being of or for the community".

Sure, that's the etymology, but the first usage in English appeared as the word "commune" describing segregated communities, such as the Amish or the hippies in hippy communes or nudist communes, but the residents were NEVER known as "Communists".  The terms used were generally "communal living", "colony", "segregated commune" or "communal sect", even a cult.  "Communist", with a capital "C:" used to describe a person first appeared in our language to describe anyone who subscribed to the politic of the Soviet Union, synonymous with Engels, Marx and Lenin.  Then you say ...

There is nothing in that classic use of the term that suggests anything having to do with anti-religious sentiments. It's also true that marx was not the first person to reinterpret the term communism as a political ideology instead of a social "ideal". It just so happened that marx's version of communist ideology was the one that inspired nations to adhere to those gross standards.

As I said and as you admit, it wasn't Marx who chose Communism to label his philosophy.  Communism (with a capital "C"),  chose his ideology itself.  Had it not donw so then Communism with a capital "c" would be defined as it had always been previously defined and outlined above.  It is a truly silly and irrelevant argument you are prosecuting here.  Next you take issue with my own statement ...

Grafix said:  God gave us our inividualism, not to be coralled into a herdlike existence with no capacity for our talents or "gifts" from Him to be useful to society at all.  

Oh, but to follow and serve jesus, one is expected to do exactly what you say we are not asked to do. If you do not serve all of society with your "gifts", then you do not serve jesus. This is demonstrated by multiple verses I've posted on this thread, but most especially this one.   

That's the opposite to my meaning in that sentence you quote above. READ it again.  My sentence expresses that our individualism IS  intended by God to  contribute to the community and NOT intended for it to be corralled into a herd-like collective where our individualism is reduced to the lowest common denominator, preventing the development of our talents, inculcted to believe that we are all "equal".  We are not endowed equally at all, least of all with the same gifts of talents, the reason we are  individuals and these are precisely what enrich any community.  Therefore, we should have every freedom to develop them to contribute.  Socialism and Communism repress and oppress individuality.  A Socialist pleading the merits of "individualism" is really rich, but an atheist quoting the Bible to defend his position, is positively hilarious.

Raving on about Ayn Rand is irrelevant, given you totally misinterpreted my comment.  The same goes for the rest of your post. In respone, I've read her book, Atlas Shrugged.  It's a brilliant exposition of how taking things for granted which we are not directly involved in, while not "looking" with our eyes open at how things came about, including the innovativeness of free market capitalism's harnessing of the power of free minds, is a strongly Conservative worldview and a constant theme in her book.  The book's message embodies the very essence of individualism and each for his own specialized knowledge. It's an illustration of when people's creativity is unshackled and allowed to pursue goals how that enables valuable contributions to society..  Not every atheist is a Communist, but every Communist must be an atheist. Her view of Communism and Socialism ....