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Trans Women Are Women Change My Mind
in Philosophy

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck looks like a duck and has a sign on it saying its a duck. Then im going to call it a duck even if it used to be a goose.
xlJ_dolphin_473AlofRIWe_are_accountableCYDdhartagbn1002KristinEmblyDavidKashlinskyJaguar



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Arguments

  • WinstonCWinstonC 163 Pts
    It all depends on your definition. If you think that biology is important to the definition then no, trans-women are not women.

    Personally, without meaning to be rude or anything, I define people not by what they say they are but by what they actually physically are. I'll respectfully play along with people's fantasies, but I regard them as just that; fantasies.
    We_are_accountableDavidKashlinskyJaguar
  • DeeDee 1903 Pts
    Going on the biological definition of such,  no , they’re not women , if they want to identify as such I care not 
    AlofRI
  • AlofRIAlofRI 631 Pts
    We have a world FULL of unhappy people. Too many. If they find something that makes them happy(er), far be it from me to take that away from them. If s/he thinks they are a woman it's fine with me. (As long as I don't get surprised at an inopportune moment ;-)
    DeestudentLeonardoLeyvaWe_are_accountablegbn1002
  • Biologically no but its impossible to look at someone like blaire white for example and now she used to by a man. It is impossible to tell someones chrmosomes just by looking at them and if they replace their sex organs arent they in a sense. Technically sexually of the gender they identify as.
  • DeeDee 1903 Pts
    @studentLeonardoLeyva


    ****  Technically sexually of the gender they identify as.

    Well no , not according to the facts , but again if they wish to identify that way I don’t care 

  • @Dee You are responding to that one line out of context and arent considering the sentence before it that led me to that conclusion
  • DeeDee 1903 Pts
    @studentLeonardoLeyva


    ****  You are responding to that one line out of context and arent considering the sentence before it that led me to that conclusion 


    No I’m not , here is what I stated originally..........

    Going on the biological definition of such,  no , they’re not women , if they want to identify as such I care not
  • @AlofRI

    The important part that Liberals like you miss, is that when society sanctions weird fetishes as being normal, then our children grow up having no clue to the natural order of life. It's amazing how blind you are to the importance of raising our children in the natural Science of biology.

    Your anything goes amoral culture destroys the family unit, and turns our children into a bunch of basket cases.
    AlofRIleonardoleyvaCYDdhartaAmericanFurryBoy
  • @leonardoleyva

    Bruce Jenner did not walk like a duck or quack like a duck or look like a duck, and had no sign on his back saying he was a duck. He looked like a man who was so manly that he won the men's Olympic decathlon!
    His mind made him believe he was not the Biological man he was born to be.

    If he wants to waste his life denying who he is, then he has the right to do so.

    Don't teach our impressionable children that his disorder is something to sanction as normal and rational. Our children deserve to be taught the rational Scientific Biological norms to life.
  • all4acttall4actt 116 Pts
    A transgender woman even with sex reassignment surgeries are still not biologically women. Lets not pretend just because you change your sexual organs that it changes your DNA makeup or the other biological  factors  and advantages most men have over biological women. That is why transgender women/girls should be banned from women's  and girl's sports.

    That being said if a biological man wants to live as a woman or vice versa whatever makes you happiest in life.
  • AlofRIAlofRI 631 Pts
    @AlofRI

    The important part that Liberals like you miss, is that when society sanctions weird fetishes as being normal, then our children grow up having no clue to the natural order of life. It's amazing how blind you are to the importance of raising our children in the natural Science of biology.

    Your anything goes amoral culture destroys the family unit, and turns our children into a bunch of basket cases.
    That is probably true in your world. In mine, my children, several of whom have "different" friends, are quite normal. You see, even though some are Catholic and Baptist, they only believe in the "religion", not totally in what the ancient scriptures have been interpreted to say, or what some of the modern Biblical Salesmen wish to sell. But, that's their business, not yours or mine. We WILL end up with a more tolerant world, I believe, not the "amoral culture" that some are spreading. Many of the "basket cases" being buried in NY, and many other places, believed as you do. Believed in WHAT you do. Many of them are children. What you believe in doesn't seem to be helping yours, any more than mine of that amoral culture. Hopefully, the part of the "natural science of biology" we WERE'NT blind to will find a cure for this scourge that "your believed" has sent to us. I really "hope" that YOU don't become one of those basket cases. Good LUCK. :-)
    leonardoleyva
  • maxxmaxx 241 Pts
    the chromozones never change, soooo......@leonardoleyva
    DavidKashlinsky
  • @maxx My point is that no one on the side of trans people are arguing about biology. We are simply talking about how it is impossible to know someones DNA just by looking at them and EVERYONE should be treated with respect and if a woman born as a man wants to transition and be called she who gives an F? So spell chromosomes right and then we will talk
  • maxxmaxx 241 Pts
    no,  it is a dumb debate.  like you said, if it is not about biology, then why even post? All you are after is an reaction.@leonardoleyva
    CYDdhartaDavidKashlinsky
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1270 Pts
    If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck looks like a duck and has a sign on it saying its a duck. Then im going to call it a duck even if it used to be a goose.

    Who's to judge whether it's walk is duck-like enough, or it's quack is duck-like enough or it's looks are duck-like enough?  It certainly doesn't need to wear a sign.  According to this line of reasoning, the only thing that matter is what the goose wants to think it is.
  • I agree with @leonardoleyva. Technically, trans women are not women, but we have to respect their decision to be women and be equally considered women.
  • WinstonCWinstonC 163 Pts
    @xlJ_dolphin_473 "Technically, trans women are not women, but we have to respect their decision to be women and be equally considered women."

    Do you also respect people's right to not consider trans-women to be women and to not treat trans-women like women?
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 260 Pts
    edited April 16
    WinstonC said:
    @xlJ_dolphin_473 "Technically, trans women are not women, but we have to respect their decision to be women and be equally considered women."

    Do you also respect people's right to not consider trans-women to be women and to not treat trans-women like women?
    @WinstonC
    I respect people's right to not consider trans-women to be women, because I don't believe in thoughtcrime (i.e. I believe that you can think what you want, and no one can hold what you think against you). But I don't respect people's right not to treat trans-women like women, because that is discriminatory, disrespectful and insulting, and I do not tolerate those things. In summary, I think you can think what you want about trans-women, as long as you don't then act on those thoughts in a discriminatory/disrespectful way.
  • WinstonCWinstonC 163 Pts
    @xlJ_dolphin_473 "But I don't respect people's right not to treat trans-women like women, because that is discriminatory, disrespectful and insulting, and I do not tolerate those things."

    If it's disrespectful, discriminatory and insulting to not play along with someone's fantasies, and you don't respect people's right not to do so, does that mean that people have to play along with my fantasies too?
  • @WinstonC
    As long as they do not have a negative effect on others, society should be respectful of everyone's so-called fantasies. This way, we can be tolerant and respectful to each other and increase cooperation.
    gbn1002
  • WinstonCWinstonC 163 Pts
    @xlJ_dolphin_473 Sounds good to me, don't ask me why but I personally get a kick out of people treating me as if I am a king and being referred to as "Your majesty", or "Your royal highness".
    xlJ_dolphin_473
  • gbn1002gbn1002 15 Pts
    @leonardoleyva you can call it a duck... dont mean it is or will ever be a duck. A trans woman is the same principle, sure, you can call it a woman, but if that "women" ever went to hospital with stomach pains, they would not check for a uterus infection, because there is no uterus... because that is a biological male and the difference between male and female is so much more that just opinion and genitals. 
    So as I say, you can call a goose a duck all you want, it is still scientifically and biologically a goose, and will always be a goose. Facts dont care about opinions. If they did instead of being a 6"1 25 year old white male, I would be a 6"5 35 year old black man. You cant change what is in your genetic code. And I'll say it again

    FACTS DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINIONS. 
    WinstonCDavidKashlinsky
  • I disagree. I believe that people are born a certain way and that that ties into their identity. I wouldn’t say someone is a male when they are born female. I would say wanting to be a male is part of their personality and that’s just how they feel. Although, I would treat them how they want to be treated I don’t agree with the decision and point of view. 
  • @maxx I totally agree with you on this one, men are men, and women are women, the biology/chromosomes wont change by, frankly, getting a ponytail and cutting off your doesn't make you feminine, you will still look different unless you get plastic surgery, not to mention, you wont be able to bear children or sexually reproduce right if you lost your testicles, and you will still have high amounts of male hormones, not female.
  • @maxx I totally agree with you on this one, men are men, and women are women, the biology/chromosomes wont change by, frankly, getting a ponytail and cutting off your doesn't make you feminine, you will still look different unless you get plastic surgery, not to mention, you wont be able to bear children or sexually reproduce right if you lost your testicles, and you will still have high amounts of male hormones, not female.
  • @maxx I totally agree with you on this one, men are men, and women are women, the biology/chromosomes wont change by, frankly, getting a ponytail and cutting off your doesn't make you feminine, you will still look different unless you get plastic surgery, not to mention, you wont be able to bear children or sexually reproduce right if you lost your testicles, and you will still have high amounts of male hormones, not female.
  • JesusJesus 66 Pts
    @leonardoleyva

    i think im just gonna identify as 70 and retire
    AmericanFurryBoy
  • TKDBTKDB 599 Pts
    @leonardoleyva

    Lab results say you're either male or female.

    Anyone can say what they will, but no one can downplay nature or genetics.

    And they can identify as the other sex, if they wish to, and its on them to enjoy their lives, as they see fit to. 

    How you are born into this world is who you are.


  • @We_are_accountable
    Being transgender isn’t a fetish buddy. Also, it isn’t being “normalized” as you define it, it’s being normalized in the sense that if you are trans, then you are trans and you shouldn’t be judged for it
    Not every quote you read on the internet is true- Abraham Lincoln
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