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How do we end anti-science rhetoric?
in Science

By Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 1824 Pts
Those who deny reality are damned to be its prey.

Across the globe there are millions of people who for various reasons want to deny science.

This doesn't just occur from those we can all agree are nuts, the "Science is the devil" or the "crystal healing energy" types, but also in politics and from ordinary people, and sometimes this has dangerous side effects.

Very recently I had a conversation on this site about taking HydroxyChloroquine as a potential remedy for Covid-19. I argued that since we do not know it's effects for sure, we can't assume that it is going to work, so doubling-down on it is not only wrong but potentially disastrous.

We now know that my suspicions were correct.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext
A multi-national analysis (n=96,032) finds decreased in-hospital survival rates and increased ventricular arrhythmias when using hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without macrolide treatment for COVID-19.

The TL:DR is that it resulted in a 34% increase in death rates and 137% increase in serious heart arrhythmias. 

The results are clear, taking a position that doesn't align with an understanding of science and science-based humanism is fatal, and should be stopped. I don't understand why we allow the whims of a dangerous and often ill-informed elite shape our laws ans our lives when there is not always correlation between what they want and what is objectively good for society and subjectively good for the masses.
ZeusAres42Dee
At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
All of that so we can argue about nothing.



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  • I can think of a few ways to do this, but I would have to evacuate any moral implication that could arise from the application of those methods...  :/

    Freedom of thought and of speech makes it virtually impossible to end anti-science rhethoric in any efficient and acceptable manner I'm afraid...

    Considering this, the only alternative we have, I think, is continued education and promotion of the Darwin awards (2020 will be a good year, participation-wise it seems...). 
    Happy_KillbotJohn_C_87ZeusAres42DeeAlofRI
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • John_C_87John_C_87 301 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot ;
    Focus on the poor mistakes science makes.

  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 1348 Pts
    Anti-science stances are very dangerous when people in power have them.
    PlaffelvohfenHappy_KillbotDeeAlofRI









  • TKDBTKDB 599 Pts
    edited May 23
    @Happy_Killbot

    The Science that seems this current day and age is Medical Science.

    And I'm impressed by Dr. Birx's work, and Dr. Fauci's work.

    So I'm unsure of anti Science notions in regards to them.

    You could always ask Dr. Fauci?

    https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/director

    https://www.drugs.com/sfx/hydroxychloroquine-side-effects.html

    "Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking hydroxychloroquine:

    Incidence not known

    • Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
    • blurred vision or other vision changes
    • chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
    • cough or hoarseness
    • dark urine
    • decreased urination
    • defective color vision
    • diarrhea
    • difficulty breathing
    • difficulty seeing at night
    • dizziness or fainting
    • fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
    • feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
    • feeling that others can hear your thoughts
    • feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
    • fever with or without chills
    • general feeling of tiredness or weakness
    • headache
    • inability to move the eyes
    • increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
    • joint or muscle pain
    • large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
    • loss of hearing
    • lower back or side pain
    • noisy breathing
    • painful or difficult urination
    • red irritated eyes
    • red skin lesions, often with a purple center
    • severe mood or mental changes
    • sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
    • sticking out of the tongue
    • stomach pain
    • swelling of the feet or lower legs
    • swollen or painful glands
    • trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
    • uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
    • unusual behavior
    • unusual bleeding or bruising
    • unusual facial expressions
    • unusual tiredness or weakness
    • yellow eyes or skin "

    @Happy_Killbot

    Science when it comes to health, is based on a patient by patient basis.

    DeePlaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 1903 Pts
    edited May 23
    When a sizable amount of people pay more attention to commentary by celebrities or politicians you know something is amiss

    People invest so much energy into believing BS that when its challenged they see it a personal attack on themselves and refuse to budge


    We have on this site people who believe Evolution is evil ,that demons are  real,that climate change is BS and last year we had 3 flat Eathers who were also anti vaxers...
    The American type of Christian fundamentalism is a breeding ground for ignorance if you want to drag people back 100 years or more this is the way to go

    The problem is those religious nuts are also in positions of power where they denounce science and scientists as being anti American and no doubt commies bent on destroying the US ,anything that challenges their world view is of course Anti American 


    It's incredible that people actually with no background in science are given more credibility than the actual scientists themselves 

    In fairness this ignorance is worldwide I reference the US because of my experiences of interacting with the religious on here who mostly seem to sing from the one Hymn sheet and will denounce science every time in favour of what Trump or some religious nut says 
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfen
  • WinstonCWinstonC 163 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot ; "Those who deny reality are damned to be its prey. Across the globe there are millions of people who for various reasons want to deny science. This doesn't just occur from those we can all agree are nuts, the "Science is the devil" or the "crystal healing energy" types, but also in politics and from ordinary people, and sometimes this has dangerous side effects. Very recently I had a conversation on this site about taking HydroxyChloroquine as a potential remedy for Covid-19."

    It seems that you're saying that theorizing is anti-science rhetoric. Could you clarify your position, because I'm sure that isn't what you mean.
  • @WinstonC

    Read this interaction between myself and @ CYDdharta

    https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/73164/#Comment_73164

    The TL;DR is that making a hypothesis and assuming you know that hypothesis to be true is a recipe for disaster.
    ZeusAres42Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • AlofRIAlofRI 631 Pts
    The current occupier of the White House gives a whole new meaning to "political science", and, in this particular case, not all science is good science.  :weary:
    Plaffelvohfen
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 1348 Pts

    Actually Dr. Fauci has already expressed his views on hydroxychloroquine and cautioned against using it. Moreover, research has come to light that it is probably not going to be used as results have so far proven it not to be very effective at treating covid-19 patients.












  • TKDBTKDB 599 Pts
    @ZeusAres42

    If any patient has a heart condition, hydroxychloroquine would be out of the question, because of the known side effects.

    And from what I heard last, many of the studies in regards to hydroxychloroquine, have been halted for the most part because, the apparent side effects, are outweighing the probable need to administer the drug on a broader scale. 

    I think that the Remdesivir drug, might be the one that will most likely be the drug of choice for COVID-19
    ZeusAres42
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