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Should the police still function as the enforcer of laws in society?
in Philosophy

By efmarschefmarsch 8 Pts
What's your take on this?



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Arguments

  • Critically Examine The Role And Function Of Policing With Direct Reference To Research Findings On What Police Actually Do And What The Public Would Like Them To Do.

    The following essay proposes to look into the issue of the role and function of the contemporary police force, charting the actual business of early twenty first century policing and comparing this to the public’s perception of what the primary law enforcement agency of the state ought to be doing to maintain law and order at the present time. This, quite clearly, represents an especially complex undertaking, one that requires us to look in the first instance into the vast, unprecedented changes that have occurred to the concept of policing in the past twenty years. Thus, we should note from the outset the way in which analysing the role and function of the police invites us to look into the policy making landscape of the contemporary UK government in order to better understand the ideological imperatives behind the vast re-conceptualisation of the police force at the dawn of the twenty first century. In the final analysis, we cannot hope to understand the role and function of the police without first understanding the police force’s intrinsic relationship to the state and the fundamental changes that have occurred to this relationship over the course of the past two decades. As a result we have to acknowledge the political undercurrents coursing through the following essay. In addition we also have to take due note of the chasm between the impact of these changes upon the modern police force and the public’s interpretation of what the police actually do, which, in many ways, does not reflect the socio-political realties of the concept of the ‘new policing.’ As McLaughlin (2006) suggest that much of the focus with regards to the police force remains fixed upon “urban patrol work” with the concept of the front line police officer maintaining societal law and order remaining a dominant, traditional view with regards to the role and function of the contemporary police force. (McLaughlin, 2006).

    For the purpose of perspective, we shall adopt a discernibly analytical approach to the problem of examining the role and function of the contemporary police force in the UK, charting the evolution of reform and change from a chronological standpoint. As a consequence, our conceptual starting point must begin with a brief yet concise overview of the traditional role, purpose and function of the police force in order to establish important ideological frameworks in which the remainder of the discussion can effectively take place.

  • WinstonCWinstonC 177 Pts
    If you want to have a society with laws, then yes, the laws have to be enforced.
  • If you want to live in a lawful society then you need a body to see to the fact that law is being enforced. And I think that is what police do. Though the more criminals you want the more laws you make. But police nowadays are just too corrupt to function.
    Lover, hunter, friend and enemy
    You will always be every one of these
    Nothing's fair in love and war.
  • all4acttall4actt 133 Pts
    A society without a rule of law and people to standup and enforce it would be a society in chaos.

    The idea of unarmed social workers taking calls, which I can only assume are domestic calls and welfare checks.  Is rediculous and dangerous for the social workers. 

    As I have stated before I come from a family of law enforcement officers.  What I don't think I have mentioned before is that those of us who were not in law enforcement were or are involved in various types of social work.

    I can tell you now that domestic calls are one of officers most disliked calls.  Not because they are a nuescience but because they never know what exactly they are going to walk into and they often turn violent toward the officers. So it is only a matter of time, if put in action, that a social worker is seriously injured.

    I currently have a relative that works as a social worker removing, placing and monitoring foster children and children that have remained or returned to their homes.  Where she works the police do not go on calls with them when they have to remove a child from a home.  9 out 10 times they end up having to call law enforcement because they get shot at, threatened with bodily harm and some cases have been injured.  She claims that there are even problems with those types of behaviors from the foster families.  She claims it is so scary that she wears a bullet proof vest to most  of her calls.  She says so many of the problems would be avoided if their local  law enforcement would just showup especially when they have people they are having to work with who have a known propensities to violence.  

    Fortunately they have that in the area where I live.  Where a social worker or even a citzen who believes that if they have to go to a certain location that they feel may cause them danger they can make an appointment with the local police for they call "A keeping the peace call."  Another call that isn't a favorite of officers but they would rather be there at the beginning then to get a call after the situation has become dangerous.

    Police could use more training especially in the identification of mental illness and devlopmentally disabled and better techniques in handling these people.  If they are able to identify the difference between that and someone on drugs (not always an easy thing to assertain. So give them a break, please) they would have better social tools to work with.

    They need to get back to more "Community Policing".  Some departments do this but others do not.  I believe it is of great value to officers when they get involved in the community they work in and take the time to really get to know the residents of the area they are responsible for. Not all the departments have the time to approach the people in the community and just shoot the sh** with them between calls.

    There are other things like more range, tactical and stress under fire training.

    I also believe that maybe Internal investigations should probably happen under a different umbrella than the departments themselves.   I also believe that "been there"  law enforcement officers or former street officers should be included on the team of investigators.  As my grandfather (a law enforcement officer who started from the bottom and retired at the top of command of his department) always said " There is no worse criminal than the one who commits the crime while wearing a badge." And no he wasn't an IA officer.
    ScienceRules
  • @all4actt
    Exactly.
    Lover, hunter, friend and enemy
    You will always be every one of these
    Nothing's fair in love and war.
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
    efmarsch said:
    What's your take on this?
    Police do not enforce the law it is the courts and lawyers that enforce laws written. They do so by proving the written law was created legally.  Police enforce consitution which is also a form of judicial separation inside the legal process.
  •  Why would they not? How did the actions of a few police officers out of hundreds of thousands demonize our entire safety system? How many people have police officers saved in this country? How many crimes have been prevented by police officers? How many police officers have sacrificed their own lives for the protection of people who hate them? How many times do we see true numbers or headlines about the amazing, selfless work that most police officers in this nation do? None. Zero. Why? We will never know because we can't know things that are prevented. But we can know that for every bad cop there are thousands of good ones and I am personally thankful that if I need them, I can call them and they will show up regardless of who I am or what color my skin is. We are so spoiled and selfish in this country that humbleness and appreciation are foreign concepts along with common sense. 
    all4actt
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts

     Why would they not? 

    Why? The never did serve as law enforcement police officers serve and protect American united state constitution.
    How many police officers lost their lives protecting people who hate them? Absolutely none, agents of the courts lost their lives only to those people, who as people have abandoned a common duty to protect and serve the constitutional process.

    @ BrandyKnight 
    Police officers have been branded by Civil Court to be slaves of law enforcement by use of the 13 Amendment  

    Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    Though the original purpose of this amendment was to grant liberty to POW’s held in a Constitutional Nation politics and time have proven ratifications brought in haste are often ineffective and the cause of greater injustice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


  •  The 13th amendment has nothing to do with state and local police. The amendment that does is the 10th amendment. I am not understanding your parallel. Maybe I am just not smart enough or you are just blowing nonsensical smoke. If you would like to further explain yourself, I would appreciate it. If not, I have nothing substantial to offer. 
  • all4acttall4actt 133 Pts
    @John_C_87 I am with @BrandyKnight as far as not understanding your post or what point you were attempting to make.  Maybe it is an unfinished thought?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @BrandyKnight
    Yes I can't comprehend it either.
    Plaffelvohfen
    Lover, hunter, friend and enemy
    You will always be every one of these
    Nothing's fair in love and war.
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
     The 13th amendment has nothing to do with state and local police. The amendment that does is the 10th amendment. I am not understanding your parallel. Maybe I am just not smart enough or you are just blowing nonsensical smoke. If you would like to further explain yourself, I would appreciate it. If not, I have nothing substantial to offer. 
    yes, it does as it gave congress the ability to take salves, this as a supreme power of the American Congress and only Congress. Taking time to even provide the section to which the processes of slavery are singled out and documented.  Amendment 13, Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    It is hard to believe you can not read or understand that slavery except as means anything other than the powers over slavery have been assumed, leaving no doubt that the process was over crime and having nothing at this point to do with war, race, or the color of someone's skin.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @John_C_87
    Where is it talking about the local police?
    Plaffelvohfen
    Lover, hunter, friend and enemy
    You will always be every one of these
    Nothing's fair in love and war.
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
    @John_C_87
    Where is it talking about the local police?
    Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except** as a punishment for crime,  whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, ( CRIME + DULY CONVICT$ED) = directly involvement of the police specifically by wording and use of criminal conviction. Around 1838 Boston police formed the first police department in 1865 congress started using the police to enslave the convicted.
  • @John_C_87 ;    I am trying to understand what you are getting at.. Are you saying that because "slavery" was written into our code, that police are the enforcement arm of institutional racism? 
  • @John_C_87 ;    I am trying to understand what you are getting at.. Are you saying that because "slavery" was written into our code, that police are the enforcement arm of institutional racism? 
    Do you mean this @John_C_87?
    Lover, hunter, friend and enemy
    You will always be every one of these
    Nothing's fair in love and war.
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
     I am trying to understand what you are getting at. 
    In America, the record clearly shows that slavery never ended, it is not racially motivated and is by the powers of democracy a human right. The interpretations are too complex to be a constitutional right and human rights can still be made and placed by people into united state right. The focus of the debate is slavery is a military process of P.O.W. it is in basic principle the treatment of all slave which can be racially motivated or found to be right or wrong. The Idea of the 13th Amendment is negated by one word EXCEPT

    The convicted are slave, the police are an involuntary servant. The argument of the modern-day slave is over the criminal cost accumulated by the action of prosecution or admitted crime. What the 13th Amendment did do was take away the publicly assigned cost of slavery. What the 13th Amendment wanted to do is fix a set uniform standard for liberty for any who had become enslaved.

    States of the Union address is the labeling of details to a process of a connection that can be made in basic languages, easy to understand form those which are more complex and hard to understand or follow in a constitutional form of legislation.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
    Racism is not the cause of slavery. Racism is a constitutional description of hate, instigation, and intimidation by human right directed at a basic united state of people. All men are created equal by there creator.  A creator such as the legal independence of men forms equality. Hate as the creator of all men forms a state which is balanced evenly between all men, as one man can hate another man more or less by the standard of basic principle and legal history between them. 

    There is more to be gained publicly by the declaration which creation of all women as being created equal by their creator in a statement of constitutional independence when addressing racism. Then could ever be made by addressing the racism of skin color alone, for it is all color of women who create the union of the world's basic female. "I am trying to understand what you are getting at."  The mindful instruction by the state of the union of what is missing.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @John_C_87
    Well I still don't see it. Maybe I am just too dumb to understand such high level arguments.
    Lover, hunter, friend and enemy
    You will always be every one of these
    Nothing's fair in love and war.
  • @ScienceRules

    Don't mind him, unless you have time to waste... He's really a lost cause... He'll throw in words of his own making, concepts that exist only in his mind and write with a deficient syntax...

    But hey, if you feel like it... 
    ScienceRules
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • @Plaffelvohfen
    Thank God its not only me who can't understand his words. OK I'll do what you said. :p
    Plaffelvohfen
    Lover, hunter, friend and enemy
    You will always be every one of these
    Nothing's fair in love and war.
  • Should the police still function as the enforcer of laws in society?

    Well, for laws to mean anything, they have to be enforceable... So of course police should still be part of law enforcement, but not be the whole of law enforcement... Their role is different whether it's a traffic stop, a domestic call or an hostage situation... All these call for different types of policing, as they are different in nature... 

    It's not the function that is troublesome but the chosen mechanism to exercise that function... If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything becomes a nail... Law enforcement needs more tool in its box...
    ScienceRules
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
    @John_C_87
    Well I still don't see it. Maybe I am just too dumb to understand such high level arguments.
    Not possible you need to be too smart to not understand a basic principle.
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
    @ScienceRules

    Don't mind him, unless you have time to waste... He's really a lost cause... He'll throw in words of his own making, concepts that exist only in his mind and write with a deficient syntax...

    But hey, if you feel like it... 

    Section 1.

    Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    For the record new words but they are not of my making. The word Presadera was created by the civil lawsuit of discrimination and a refusal to pursue the criminal c charge of perjury. BiniVir and Unosmulier were created by the refusal to pursue criminal charges of perjury. yPi is a mathematical formulation that addresses the basic difference between a ratio and approximation in math. Along with criminal fraud which exists in educational institutions. At least with the crimes that take place by officers the single events of crime and the damages caused are limited.

    However, Plaffevohefen in this particular matter the word except is not one of my words of creations. It is the word that tells us congress still practices slavery in America., in the year 2020. It also tells us that other countries who have legal systems that have convictions also practice slavery. ..Well, for laws to mean anything, they have to be enforceable.. For laws to hold understandable meaning as laws they must be constitutional. You do not understand the meanings of the very laws you are insisting should be enforced by others. Police never enforced the law.

    The smartest law in the world is unenforceable if not understood. This is only second in meaningless litigation too the simplest lies never being corrected when told to the court. Binivir and UnosMulier is a correction to a lie told to the Court. Make a legal objection or hold your peace is the only option slandering my stance on constitutional preservation publicly is foolish.



    PlaffelvohfenTacoBell
  • John_C_87 said:
    @John_C_87
    Well I still don't see it. Maybe I am just too dumb to understand such high level arguments.
    Not possible you need to be too smart to not understand a basic principle.
    Well its not only me, others don't get it too, therefore I'll take it as a compliment. I see you are the only person with that amount of smartness. Kindly share your smartness with people like me who are "too smart". :D
    Plaffelvohfen
    Lover, hunter, friend and enemy
    You will always be every one of these
    Nothing's fair in love and war.
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
    John_C_87 said:
    @John_C_87
    Well I still don't see it. Maybe I am just too dumb to understand such high level arguments.
    Not possible you need to be too smart to not understand a basic principle.
    Well its not only me, others don't get it too, therefore I'll take it as a compliment. I see you are the only person with that amount of smartness. Kindly share your smartness with people like me who are "too smart". :D
    The problem here ScienceRules is you are saying the laws you feel should be enforced are beyond understanding, by you, buy anyone you know debating here. This makes me question how someone can honestly find relevance in something they cannot understand. Police being forced into involuntary servitude is part of the legal malpractice of law that took place during decades of unconstitutional legislation in American law. Common sense is the word you might be looking for, not intelligence, common sense is the same ability that gives people participating in many malpractices intelligence not to admit any understanding of there own malpractice. Are there any laws in legislation written which state murder will be made illegal with except?

    You are showing me that you and others are smarter than the common us. You are simply playing the same exception of slavery but on a different area of political debate. Is slavery Illegal? No, it is not illegal. Why isn't it illegal the 13th Amendment said it does not exist in the united states, Police are not held by involuntary servitude to justice, the police are held by involuntary servitude to United States Consitution as these states exist in the legislation of law by job description hold any officer of rank and file in the police force to involuntary servitude by self-evident truth.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @John_C_87
    "Police being forced into involuntary servitude is part of the legal malpractice of law that took place during decades of unconstitutional legislation in American law. "  This sentence is so good lol. :p 
    Plaffelvohfen
    Lover, hunter, friend and enemy
    You will always be every one of these
    Nothing's fair in love and war.
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
    @John_C_87
    "Police being forced into involuntary servitude is part of the legal malpractice of law that took place during decades of unconstitutional legislation in American law. "  This sentence is so good lol. :p 
    lol..yeah it is funny but it can quickly become very sad if found to be true. Police do not enforce the law they serve and protect consitution it is the lawyers that are licensed to enforce the law. The hint for the less intelligent like myself, those with a lick of common sense? lawyer's actual studies law and takes a test to know what law can, will, and should be enforced.

     If a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound? 
    If a person performs malpractice does it leave an impression on the law? 
    Look, I made up a saying, what is this world coming to.
    PlaffelvohfenTacoBell
  • all4acttall4actt 133 Pts
    @John_C_87

    I am trying to follow what point your trying to make but I don't think it is quite coming across.  

    Are you trying to say that law enforcement officers are in forced slavery to the laws?  

    I disagree with you on your point that law enforcement do not engorce laws because that is literally their job.  Yes, the DA's offices, judges and juries make the ultimate decision on whether a crime has actually been committed but they couldn't do their jobs without the collection of evidence and criminals brought to them by the officers.

    By the way, as you said the lawyers go to school and study the law whereas officers don't.  Is in most departments an untrue statement.  While most law enforcement officers don't study the intricacy of every law they enforce (that's is why there is a next level. The lawyers) they do generally study the penal codes so they know when to charge or arrest someone.

    There is no legal slavery and just don't get why you keep mentioning it.

    Being a law enforcement officer is voluntary.  So how can there be any form of slavery attached.

    Please get your thoughts together and try to be more concise in your statements.

    Besides isn't the OP,s question 

    Should the police still function as the enforcer of laws in society?

    You have not made a clear stayement to answer that question.

    As for the question of the day.  Yes the police are tannument as the first line of defence and law enforcement in our society.
  • AlofRIAlofRI 733 Pts
    No. They should be the GUARDIANS of the laws of society. The Gestapo, the KGB, the Brown Shirts, THEY were the enforcers of the laws. Lately, a FEW American cops have decided to be more Gestapo-like. They need to get back to PROTECTING and SERVING the people, rather than envisioning themselves as "enforcers".
  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
    @all4actt ;

    You are missing a lot of what I try to explain.


    The point of great importance the police officer has never had the job to enforce the law. Police officers have been instructed by order, commanded by political superiors to undertake that purpose. When this finally comes to trial, and someday after all this civil war just outside our court steps, the ends will come, the trials unstoppable from reaching the ears and documentation of precedent by the courts of law.

    \All evidence used from one side will point to police as the indentured servant, this function of human interaction is different than the legal slave built-in 1875 too now 2020 by American congress, the slave now just called convict. Only one thing needed to be a slave in America conviction or the acceptance of admission of a crime. It has hardly illegal to be the slave, it is only far less likely privately own slave, and it is the frightening thing how close the indentured servant and the slave still interact in society.

    Should police still function as law the enforcers of laws in society; You have not made a clear statement to answer that question. Yes, I did. The answer cannot be any clearer than it was never the police officer's job.


  • John_C_87John_C_87 347 Pts
    AlofRI said:
    No. They should be the GUARDIANS of the laws of society. The Gestapo, the KGB, the Brown Shirts, THEY were the enforcers of the laws. Lately, a FEW American cops have decided to be more Gestapo-like. They need to get back to PROTECTING and SERVING the people, rather than envisioning themselves as "enforcers".
    @AlofRl
    "Serve and protect." Those words written on the cars was a mission statement, should you join rank or joint just mission, the statement set in united state between the public and police. Our reality AlofRl is we both forget their service to the American Constitution is what keeps us from becoming slave. 

  • piloteerpiloteer 839 Pts
    edited 2:11AM
    @Plaffelvohfen

    Is it not our public who decides what our laws are? We as a society decide what laws should be enforced, and we decide who our government is. Even if it is a government we dislike, it is still us who chooses to allow that government to function (non-action against a tyrannical government is essentially still a vote of confidence in that government, whereas actions taken against them is not). Whether directly, or indirectly, it is our society who chooses the laws, and we choose who among us should enforce those laws. It is we who are governing ourselves no matter how you slice it. Since we as a society have the capability of governing ourselves, then we as a society have the capability to enforce our laws.

    It's not like criminals or cops are alien entities from a different galaxy, they are members of our society. It's also not like cops are saints, and all criminals are evil. They have all the same shortcomings as us because they are us. It has been done before where social enforcement of our rules worked, and peace still reined supreme. The only reason social enforcement of our rules is generally not done is because we fear that we cannot do it and our society will fall apart, but that scenario is not a given, and besides the fear, there's nothing actually stopping us from doing that.          
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