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Was Brexit a good decision for the UK?
in Politics

Position: For
By xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 436 Pts edited July 29
July 2020 Private Tournament semifinals debate (xlJ_dolphin473 VS JGXdebatePRO) -

Was Brexit a good decision for the UK?



Debra AI Prediction

Tie
Predicted
50%
Likely
50%
Unlikely

Details +




Debate Type: Traditional Debate



Voting Format: Moderate Voting

Opponent: JGXdebatePRO

Rounds: 3

Time Per Round: 48 Hours Per Round


Voting Period: 48 Hours


Forfeited


Arguments



  • Round 1 | Position: For
    Welcome to this tournament debate. In my first round, I will argue that the EU goes against democracy, that it was hugely expensive for the UK and that leaving the EU will open up better trade deals for the UK.

    Firstly, it is a well-known fact that taxation without representation is tyranny. Although the UK did have representatives in the European Parliament, the other members would easily be able to outvote us on matters concerning the UK, although they do not live here and are distanced from their vote. It is very clearly anti-democratic to allow non-UK citizens/politicians to vote on decisions about what happens here in the UK.
    It gets worse. The decisions about rules and regulations (which, I must add, costed the UK about £33.3 billion a year) are made not by the EU Parliament, but by unelected bureaucrats of the EU Commission. They also are in charge of implementing decisions and managing the day-to-day business of the EU. If this isn't horrendously anti-democratic, what is?

    My next point is that the EU is very costly to be in. In 2018, the UK paid the EU approximately £13 billion, but EU spending on the UK was only £4 billion. The UK put in far more than it got in return, and although we did get favourable trade deals, there is no reason why we wouldn't be able to make such trade deals elsewhere (such as with the Commonwealth countries).

    My final point is that leaving the EU allows for better control over our borders. The EU's 'free movement of people' policy made it impossible for the UK to decide how many people can enter our country. Although the EU did eventually pause free movement of people in corona time, it did so long after the UK restricted immigration. If we were still in the EU, the coronavirus situation could have been far worse than it is today.

    Thank you. I look forward to your argument!  :)
    JGXdebatePRO
  • Round 1 | Position: Against
    JGXdebatePROJGXdebatePRO 207 Pts
    edited July 31
    Thank you for you're debate, and it was a good one, but however I will now point out the flaws and the reasons that we should stay in the EU rather than leave. the first reason being that the EU is the world's largest trading bloc, representing 500 million customers and 23% of global GDP. Therefore the argument you stated about more trade opportunities is invalid. Also, the EU collects the money required not only to give back to Britain but to help other not-so-well off countries. Also, having better control over our borders also means that we do not have immigrants from other countries, who make up a large percentile of our workforce, which you conveniently failed to mention in your speech. The UK also has a greater global influence due to the EU, which is obviously a good thing. The EU also accounts for over 53% of UK imports. So after all these reasons that I stated, I would hope that all of the members of the Debate Island community would see reason and vote for me, as I have created valid, solid points, while my opponent has posted an argument that was easily proved wrong by my speech. Thank you for taking the time to read this debate, and that is all I have to say.

    Interested to see how you respond! :smiley:
    xlJ_dolphin_473
    “I’d be lying if I said things are going according to my plan… but beggars can’t be choosers, right?” – Madara Uchiha
  • Round 2 | Position: For
    @JGXdebatePRO
    Thank you for your argument. I will now offer my rebuttals. 
    Thank you for you're debate, and it was a good one, but however I will now point out the flaws and the reasons that we should stay in the EU rather than leave. the first reason being that the EU is the world's largest trading bloc, representing 500 million customers and 23% of global GDP. Therefore the argument you stated about more trade opportunities is invalid.
    I do not deny that the EU makes inter-territorial trading very convenient, however there is no reason why the UK could not make its own trade deals. Also, you forgot to mention that the WTO and other trading organisations also account for a significant proportion of GDP.
    Also, the EU collects the money required not only to give back to Britain but to help other not-so-well off countries.
    I don't believe that foreign aid is a good use of the money the UK sends to the EU. The UK has many problems of its own, and it would be wise to solve them first before we start giving money to other countries. Also, if we want to do foreign aid, it would be nice if the UK could decide where the money is going to, rather than the EU doing it for us.
    Also, having better control over our borders also means that we do not have immigrants from other countries, who make up a large percentile of our workforce, which you conveniently failed to mention in your speech. 
    This is plainly false. If we have better control of our borders, we can still have immigrants, we just aren't forced to accept an unlimited number of them! I believe this situation is far preferable, as we can still allow immigrants into the United Kingdom, but can adjust how many we accept based on statistics, and completely cut off immigration, if necessary, in times like coronavirus.
    The UK also has a greater global influence due to the EU...
    I have just one question... why? It's hard to say yet, but that is unlikely to be the case. Our global standing is not a result of our membership of the EU, but of our culture, institutions (like universities and schools), our law system, our excellent human rights, per-capita GDP, and so on. Leaving the EU can in fact increase our world influence, if we stay committed to our goals of decreasing poverty, creating jobs, feeding the mouths and minds of the next generation and creating a sustainable future.

    Because of the fact that I have rebutted all of my opposition's arguments, I would ask the DebateIsland community to consider voting for me. Thank you.
  • Round 2 | Position: Against
    Thank you very much for your arguments, although they are superficially attractive, they lack substance for the following reasons:

    To rebut your first point, 46% of UK exports go to the EU market. So of course, 54% go to other markets. You have failed to meet the point. That 46% of frictionless trade is now subject to the very WTO guidelines that you seem to think are beneficial. As for negotiating independent trade deals, they are dependant upon the bargaining power of each party. It is untrue to say that a bargaining bloc of 50 million people has more bargaining power of a single country of 18 million. It merely is just not correct. You rely on our relationships with Commonwealth countries without realising that our relationship with those countries has fundamentally changed. We are no longer the colonial power that we once were. India is a vast emerging market, with its agenda now. What makes you think that our previous relationship with them would have any currency in a modern negotiation?

    To rebut your second, You are simply looking at the amount paid in, and the amount received in a vacuum. The benefit of being party to a single market goes far further than that. Its the amount generated through trade, its access to European financial markets, which accounts for a hundred billion pounds a year. Much of that would be lost following Brexit. That is definitely a good deal more than we pay in.

    Thirdly, in answer to your point on immigration, each European country has been able to close its borders during the pandemic. Any delay is entirely the fault of our government, not of the EU. We are on an island. We had control of our borders, but we used that control ineffectively. The United Kingdom is a nation of immigrants, and proudly so. When Boris Jhonson (the arch-Brexiteer) was in the hospital, he was cared for by... You guessed it! Immigrants! The key workers who are teaching the nation's children, taking care of our sick, delivering your Amazon packages, are... drum roll, please... IMMIGRANTS!

    For the fourth point, I will say that every nation is part of a trading bloc. America, Australia, Mexico, you name it, they are undoubtedly in a trading bloc. To point to our influence based on our history is simply that. History. In 2017, the UK lost a vote to have a British judge on the international court of justice... For the first time... Ever... Coincidence? I think not.

    Also, about the point on other nations making decisions on what goes on in the UK. What makes you think that just because they are in a different location and have a different first language they have any less right to an opinion on the UK as we do? It simply does not make sense.

    Now, as I have stated understandable, clear reasons as to why I have won this debate, I do believe that you will vote for me.

    Thank you for your time, and have a nice day :smile:
    “I’d be lying if I said things are going according to my plan… but beggars can’t be choosers, right?” – Madara Uchiha
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