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Voting against your own self interests
in Politics

I can understand women who support trump. He talks down to women and treats them like there beneath them. He talks about women like they are objects. Look at how he treated his ex wives, every single one of them he has cheated on. He has stated that he enjoyed walking into the dressing room of the miss teen universe. Yet women flock to him. I dont understand it. 



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  • edited July 30
    @liberalwithmorals
    My largest disagreement with people on the left is that Trump voters are inherently bad, racist, sexist and want to destroy America as we know it. I'm not saying that you are claiming these things (although I think at times you imply it) but the best way to get Trump voters on our side is to actually take time out to understand them.
    Everyone is the hero in their own story. Voters vote for who they vote for not because they intend harm for the other side but because they genuinely believe that they are doing good for our political landscape. Not to be offensive, but I think the reason why you don't understand Trump voters is because you haven't truly emphasised with them. A large part of Trump's 2016 appeal came from him speaking directly to members of the white working class (factory workers, coal miners) who felt as if society left them behind. 
    Now I have made my political position clear: I am an American progressive, I do not support Trump.
    However imagine this. You spend 20 years of your life working your *** off in manufacturing when suddenly your job is outsourced. You proceed to struggle immensely trying to support your family, carefully rationing money and making sacrifices when you turn on the t.v. and you see media telling millions of people that white people are the evils behind every problem in America, that white people have it easy and they should stop being so selfish and lend a helping hand to the brown man. YOU, the same man who risked his health everyday giving it all at your factory job only for it to be outsourced which in your mind is them "giving it away to the brown man" and then the media has the audacity to say that YOU are the problem? That YOU have it easy?! This is the kind of rhetoric that brings people to Trump because Trump for a brief period of time was counter culture. He didn't stick to the narrative of "white man bad", he actually did the opposite: he appealed directly to the white working class that felt disenfranchised. We the left can shout racism and blame Trump all day long but in reality it was the PC culture that we helped create that got Trump elected.
    And if we want to bring Trump voters to our area of the spectrum we need to start being empathetic to the individual and ruthless to the system. In reality, a great deal of Trump supporters probably agree with most progressive reform but since the left often has arrogant tendencies people on the right aren't exactly willing to jump on board the progressive express when its passengers can be pricks. If we show these voters that our policy such as healthcare reform, drug reform, taking big money out of politics etc. benefits them as well, without having a superiority complex about it, then we'd be surprised with the results. So no offense, but when you say that they are "voting against their best interest" you are technically correct but context is key. The largest problem with the left is that we are thankfully very idealistic but our pragmatism and context with how we discuss our political opposites is rude and terrible.
    Understand the individual.
    liberalwithmorals
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3408 Pts
    What one's "self-interest" is depends largely on their individual circumstances and views.

    I can say that, had I to choose between Trump and Sanders, I would prefer Trump. That is after his ICE act that nearly led to my deportation from the US. So, you could say, I would (if I could) vote against my self-interest.

    But my self-interest is a bit more sophisticated than just whether I get to stay in the US or not. I think that Sanders is the worst candidate there is in the current pool, both among Democrats and Republicans. I cannot stand socialists and socialism; should he be elected, I would not even want to stay in the US that much. However, what he would to to the US and, by extension, to the world worries me enough that I would rather take possible
    deportation over it.

    Your argument is very simplistic. You imply that women should not vote for Trump because of how he talks about women. Has it occurred for you that the president's words are not everything in the voter's decision making? Who cares what Trump privately or publicly thinks about women. What really matters is what he is going to do that will affect their lives. And so far he has not shown any inclination to push for any meaningful direction of discrimination against them, and even his stance on abortion seems to be fairly mild by the Republicans' standards.

    Things are a little more complicated than that. Many people who despise him as an individual would still vote for him over the alternative, for various reasons. This does not mean that they vote against their self-interest; only that they vote against the alternative that they see as threatening their self-interest more still.

    Look at the current Japanese political situation. Virtually no one likes Abe, and yet he has been the longest serving prime minister in the Japanese history. Why? Because, as much as people dislike his particular actions and, perhaps, his personality, they do not see a viable alternative among other featured candidates. Abe is that tough teacher that you dislike and wish for him to be hit by a bus, but secretly appreciate his strictness which, you know, will have a certain positive impact on you in the long run.

    Now, Abe is a serious prime minister with serious and mature views, while Trump is a joke from the logical standpoint. But some people believe that it is better to have an ignoramus as their president, than to have what they see as an actively malicious person.
    Do not discount people's preferences based on your own. People rarely take a strong stance on something for no reason whatsoever.
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @liberalwithmorals

    Maybe they like a law and order guy who opposes mob violence and destruction.
    liberalwithmorals
  • For women it doesnt matter about are personal circumstances. Because the facts remain as women we still dont have laws protecting us and protecting our bodies, and giving us the choice. Right now when I say dont vote against your own "self interest" I mean as women we all should have one commen interest and that is equality and the freedom to control our own bodies. Its 2020 and still we have arguments today about whether or not abortions, birth control, or planned parenthood should be around at all. These arguments are not what we should be discussing.  We should be make strides towards women's equal rights to men. Men have no legal constraints on what they can and can't do with there bodies. So why should women. @MayCaesar
    xlJ_dolphin_473
  • Firstly we should definitely care what trump thinks, says in privately and publicly. Because he is the president of the United states, and he is supposed set an example for all americans. He is supposed to give us courage in times of pain. Like when george floyd died all over the country people morned his artousious murder. But not once did Trump speak to the Floyd's family's. Not once did trump try to comfort, relate, or speak out against the police violence. As well as set a good example with other word leader. He has been trying to completely abolish planned parent hood. He is a womanizer, cheated on every single one of his wives, and he thinks woman are just objects. My argument is simplistic becuase it is simple. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but we already are partly socialist I'm mean why do you think they call it social security. We need to do nation wide testing for the virus yet he has not done anything to make that happen. He is totally wiping out the middle class. At least Sanders has empathy and compassion. Trumps just wants to be richer.  @MayCaesar
    xlJ_dolphin_473
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