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The Complexity Of Life
in Religion

By SwolliwSwolliw 164 Pts
Many creationists often use the complexity argument in their assertion that life was designed by a creator. . . . . . "the human body is far too complex to have just happened by accident".

Also: "Complexity is the result of design".

Then, out come the usual, well-worn analogies of a watch dropped in the sand and a Boeing 747 miraculously coming together during a gust of wind over a junk-yard.

The fundamental flaw of creationists' arguments is the erroneous assumption that complexity is the result of design.

Quite the opposite is true.

The top watchmakers in Switzerland create superb precision timepieces but not out of complexity. Each component and mechanism fulfils its intended purpose, No more, no less. The watch operates with the bare minimum of parts in order for it to reliably keep time. . . . . It is as simple as possible to perform its function and therefore not complex.

Compare this with life forms which are highly complex.

The body of a mammal (the human is a mammal) is a mass of convoluted valves and conduits, fluids, and extraneous organs. There is no way that a designer would ever set out to create a living entity by haphazardly whacking together bunches of organic components on the fly.

The point creationists seem to conveniently overlook is that complexity is the result of "accumulation over time".

For example, We can marvel at the vast and wondrous beauty of an underground cave full of giant stalagmites and stalactites. They weren't created, They were formed by minerals accumulating and bonding over a very long period of time. . . hundreds of thousands of years.

The same goes for life. Life developed over a very long period of time and here, we are talking of billions of years.

Is it not then, more valid to say that life is far too complex (and convoluted) to have been designed?
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Arguments

  • maxxmaxx 251 Pts
    Aside from religion, there are many other ways life may have been created; we just do not have the evidence.  It is possible for humans to create life simulation with computers and given much higher technologies, science in some other type of medium; may create a universe such as ours. The only thing  many have against this idea, is the size; we are looking at the universe with a human perspective .It is quite possible that the universe was created by a superior life form; however it may have been created for the beings benefit, not for humans. we may simply be by-products of the creation.@Swolliw
    Sand
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Swolliw

    What makes life complex is the fact that there are billions of working biological parts which are essential to each life form for survival and reproduction.  The number of complicated cells and genes which went into the very first life form on earth (assuming evolution is correct) is so large as to eliminate all possibilities of random formation or accidental or chance abiogenesis of life on earth.
    Sand
  • SwolliwSwolliw 164 Pts
    @maxx
    "Aside from religion, there are many other ways life may have been created; we just do not have the evidence.  It is possible for humans to create life simulation with computers and given much higher technologies, science in some other type of medium; may create a universe such as ours. The only thing  many have against this idea, is the size; we are looking at the universe with a human perspective .It is quite possible that the universe was created by a superior life form; however it may have been created for the beings benefit, not for humans. we may simply be by-products of the creation."

    I think that the creation of life is a religion in that it involves a creator that creationists call God.

    We haven't exactly established (yet) how the universe came to be but we do know that there is no evidence whatsoever that it was created. And, certainly, the evidence we have concludes that there is no way that life was created, in fact I am going to post a thread explaining why.

    Sand
  • SwolliwSwolliw 164 Pts
    @marke
    "What makes life complex is the fact that there are billions of working biological parts which are essential to each life form for survival and reproduction.  The number of complicated cells and genes which went into the very first life form on earth (assuming evolution is correct) is so large as to eliminate all possibilities of random formation or accidental or chance abiogenesis of life on earth."

    Very wrong. Which has been explained properly in the thread. You may want to read it again.
    If you care to study the science of evolution by natural selection (and, have you?) you will learn that organisms become complex by continually having to adapt to their environments. What you call "accident or chance" is actually the very deliberate process of survival of the fittest.
    The giraffe (unfortunately)  has all of its throat organs in the bottom of its neck with convoluted tubes running up to the mouth and brain. Are trying to say that the "creator" deliberately designed that animal in such a haphazard, absent-minded way?
    No, the giraffe evolved gradually over thousands of years in order to survive but its organs are complexly arranged out of necessity, not because some of a creator forgot how to design such an animal.
    The human body still has organs that are "devolving" due to natural selection....the appendix, gall bladder and tonsils are redundant organs.

    I suggest that you actually sit down and study the science of evolution by natural selection before making any more erroneous conclusions.
    But, you're not going to do that are you?

    Sand
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Swolliw

    You assume original life and then begin postulating how you think it may have developed from there.  But evolution science forbids you to assume abiogenesis.  You must scientifically explain biogenesis withoutn the aid of evolution.  But that cannot be done because it would have been impossible for millions of complex molecules to have just spontaneously generated and arranged themselves in the proper order to form the first living creature.
  • maxxmaxx 251 Pts
    no, there is no evidence that the universe was created; nor is there any proof that it was not created. It is very possible that a highly advanced civilization that exists outside of what we call time and space, created the universe as we see it; from a singularity to today. It is more than obvious that what we call the big bang was only big due to our miniscule size to it .  On a computer, we can create such universes and in the simulation, have life forms.  Why would you see a problem with the idea that an advanced scientific form of life can create what we call the universe? I believe you think it is impossible because of the size relationship; however take a cell inside an oak tree. Assume it has consciousness. It can never understand its universe{ the inside of the tree} and if it could trace it backwards it would see a singularity as a seed and its sprouting would be considered a big bang. No one really knows if our universe was created; lack of evidence does not mean a thing. One does not need a god to believe that our universe was created and if so, it is possible that the universe was created for the creator[s] benefit and not ours. We may simply be by-products to such creation.@Swolliw
  • SwolliwSwolliw 164 Pts
    @marke
    ..........it would have been impossible for millions of complex molecules to have just spontaneously generated and arranged themselves in the proper order to form the first living creature.

    That's right, but again, what is your point?
    Let me answer that since you have employed this tactic several times already.

    What you have done is invented an argument that didn't exist in the first place, then attacked it. Nobody ever made such an absurd claim, you made it up.

    Now, with due respect, can you please make an effort to refrain from using such a tactic?
  • @Swolliw

    Many creationists often use the complexity argument in their assertion that life was designed by a creator. . . . . . "the human body is far too complex to have just happened by accident".
    Or, in the most basic way by the assessment of cost and value, our creator is the one thing that is giving us purpose at any given time. Our creator today is not our creator tomorrow it is the thing as a united state which drives us together. 
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Swolliw

    I do not understand the question.  I question abiogenesis by stating the obvious, that life forms are too complex for even just one to have miraculously formed without help, and you accuse me of bad methods?
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